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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 11:34:15 AM | OP, that is a very good question.
When the titanic went down, women and children were given access to the few lifeboats; the men mostly drowned.
I do not think that is right (well, I would drown to save a child--at least I hope I would). One person's life is not worth more or worth less strictly because of gender, though.
Me, I like to open doors for ladies and pull out their chairs. How do you get other guys to do that? I have no idea. Just forget them, and date me :D
Poems and love songs? That has nothing to do with chivalry, that just takes a guy with a poetic temperament. You can't change who a guy is, just find one who has the qualities you are looking for.
PS--the "feminist" movement (I don't consider them real feminists; real feminists just wanted equality) has an academic arm--the so called women's studies departments on college campuses. Any woman who really wants equality, good relations, and consideration from men should be against these women's studies departments. They practice highly questionable academics and foment hatred towards men. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 12:13:45 PM | The "feminist" movement (I don't consider them real feminists; real feminists just wanted equality) has an academic arm--the so called women's studies departments on college campuses. Any woman who really wants equality, good relations, and consideration from men should be against these women's studies departments. They practice highly questionable academics and foment hatred towards men.
That's so sadly true. I'm a soft-core feminist, and wish we could just go back to the real meaning: equal ACCESS to employment, education, etc. Not ENTITLEMENT.
I've yet to meet a "women's studies" type who not only didn't despise men, but also women who didn't toe their line. Was once told I was lackey to male supremacy because I like to wear skirts and high heels. Yeah. Whatever. I despair for these women's sons.
Back to the topic: chivarly isn't about romance. It's about honour and respect for ALL people. There are still plenty of chivalrous men (and women) out there. And quite a few romantic ones, too. Be patient. You'll find each other. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 2:14:42 PM | First let's define chivalry: (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=chivalry)
Main Entry: chiv·al·ry
Pronunciation: 'shi-v&l-rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: Middle English chivalrie, from Anglo-French chevalerie, from chevaler knight -- more at CHEVALIER
1 : mounted men-at-arms
2 archaic a : martial valor b : knightly skill
3 : gallant or distinguished gentlemen
4 : the system, spirit, or customs of medieval knighthood
5 : the qualities of the ideal knight : chivalrous conduct
which of the above do you want to bring back sweety? (do you notice what I notice?)
Let's proceed with "chivalrous":
chivalrous
One entry found for chivalrous.
Main Entry: chiv·al·rous
Pronunciation: 'shi-v&l-r&s
Function: adjective
1 : VALIANT
2 : of, relating to, or characteristic of chivalry and knight-errantry
3 a : marked by honor, generosity, and courtesy b : marked by gracious courtesy and high-minded consideration especially to women
synonym see CIVIL
- chiv·al·rous·ly adverb
- chiv·al·rous·ness noun
ahhhh finally women are mentioned..."high-minded consideration"...yes...yes...I practice that all the time...yes...yes... | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 2:54:53 PM | | to bring it back you need to depend on us to do those nice things for you. and not treat us like crap when we do. nothing kills it for me when i open a door for a woman and she says ... what did you do that for? i coulda opened it myself! .... instead of thanks. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 7:59:14 PM | I beg to differ.
Chivalry is alive and well in the hearts of any men who feel and act in a chivalrous manner, and equally alive in the hearts of women who accept chivalrous behaviour.
I will, at any opportunity, hold a door, or a chair for a lady.
On a VERY few occasions, such offers have been rebuked.
Sometimes they offers go unacknowledged, although the lady will walk through the door I hold.
But occasionally, I still receive a VERY warm "Thank you, sir", accompanied by an equally warm smile.
When in a relationship, I like to bring home silly little presents on a regular basis, even something as silly as her favorite chocolate bar, just to let her know I'm thinking of her.
Chivalry lives, it's just not quite as common as it was. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 8:07:37 PM | I wonder how many of these so called chivalrous men actually have their shield and armour at home. And I wonder how many of these women demanding the so called chivalry actually deserve it.People like to gap,gap and gap, but when it comes time to the real thing, they run with their tails in between. Talk is cheap. Try action and maybe someone will believe you. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/22/2006 8:16:00 PM | Basically it's just a gross misunderstanding of the phrase equal but different. I was raised by a set of very old fashioned parents. My dad worked and my mom at times worked too, when the situation called for it. My mom supported my dad in every way and he supported her. In their work, the family and raising kids and they shared everything. Now my dad didn't cook as well, but he did when mom was sick, and he didn't hesistate to grab the vacuum and help out with the housework. Never heard my mom have to ask, either.
They were a team, and we grew up seeing the love, respect and support.
They were equal, all the praise my dad got for his job, he always shared it with mom and let everyone know that he couldn't have done it without her.
Better role models, I couldn't imagine. I don't want to be a man, I love being a woman and wouldn't trade it for the world. I've had to go out and work, get an education and support my family solo. Not bragging or complaining, just did what needed to be done. I don't consider myself better or less than any man in any area. I am equal, but still have learned to let my own dear man be his own man and he enjoys letting me be a woman. It works for us, we couldn't be happier.
When life and romance is a competition, everyone trying to prove they're better and one upping, we really lose a lot. I only compete with myself, to try and do better. I have my self respect in tact and it's never been a problem in a relationship. I wouldn't date or be with a man that I didn't respect and never felt the need to prove anything. I admire and love my man for the man he is, and totally support him in whatever he wants to do. I would never consider doing anything to emasculate him or make him feel he's less than me in any way.
To those who can't enjoy and celebrate their gender, I am so sorry for you. The loss is immeasureable. To those who embrace and enjoy being men and women...WOOHOO!! Hats off to you!!  | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 12:09:09 AM | You don't get it back by crying m dear.
You get it back by killing the women who killed it in the first place. They are still aliv and active. Not just in some radical corners either. In most ofthe mainstream womens rags you wil find these man haters.
Next time you see an article discussing men, in one of these rags, then copy it, change the word "men " to "ni66ers" re read it, and then send it back to the editors. Wehn you read it you will realise what has really killed chivialay.
Chivalry has a characteristic that you are still practicising. In the chivalirous world, fi you have a problem you sit and cry till a man comes along and fixes it. And you are satisfied with his efforts even if they are second rate.
In the modern world no woman is satisfied with any man.
But no about of bleating is going to fix the problem. You have a problem in the modern world lady? You fix it yourself. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 12:21:17 AM | OP
Message three comes the closest to being right. But there is more that needs to be added so it's time for me to let go on the topic since this is a topic I like to get fired up about.
In my eyes Chivalry is dead for many reasons and they are (in no certain order) as follows....
Speaking in general... (there are exceptions)
1. Woman of our genereations do not understand what it is. They were never taught it by their parents. The younger the generations are the worst they get. Starting from the 60s on is when it started going bad.
2. If the woman do understand what it is then they can careless about it.
3. The feminists had a huge part in it to.
4. Men are just as guilty .... go back to 1 and 2 put men in place of woman.
5. All the woman in my experience claim they want a nice gentleman but in reality they want bad jerk. I have seen it in their actions. Remember actions speak louder than words. That is why body language is >95% of human language and the spoken word is < 5% of the human communication. If you don't believe me do some research on it.
6. If a lady does have a gentleman... they don't show appreciation.
I have written about this in another forum topic. But I will write it again. The best (well known chivalrous) guys are James Bond (007) and Actor Cary Grant (not the actor himself but the characters he has portrayed).
Now you asked How can we bring it back..... I could write a book on that question but I will try to hit the highlights here.
1. Guys need to go to school on how to be a gentleman because they obviously are not being taught at home by the parents.
2. Woman need to go to school on the topic as well.
3. Woman need to let men be men and wear the pants in the relationship. Relationship decisions should be 50% 50% not 90% 10% or 80% 20%. The higher percentage be woman.
4. When a guy opens a door for a woman the woman should say thanks and appreciate. But many woman go off and complain basically saying "I can open my own door." I know she can but that is part of chivarly.
5. Respect ... that is another lost art. in order for there to be Chivalry the couple needs to be respectful to each other.
6. The woman need to have class to. What I mean by that is she should not be a slut and drop her pants on the first date. I know anymore that's the in thing. But a true gentleman (like myself) wants an inexperienced (preferably a virgin but not a born again virgin) woman when it comes to s-e-x why because that tells me she can be trusted, she respects herself, she has will power, she has ethics, she has a good value system. She is a good one for a possible long term relationship... possibly even a wife.
7. She needs to dress like she has class. I am not talking like showing your boobs or wearing a dress that shows your butt when you bend over. That is so LOW CLASS. I am talking about dressing conservatively (if you have any questions email me.) Another way of saying it Don't dress like a prostitute.
Today's fashion magazines are lieing...telling you ladies this is what men want. Yes, if we want to get an easy score..... But the gentleman (who are chivalrous) are looking for a decently conservatively dressed woman. SAVE THE PROSTITUTE LOOK FOR THE BEDROOM FOR US (GENTLEMAN).
8. Finally, Show your appreciation if the door is opened for you or oil( in your car) is changed for you... the words "thank you" would be nice to hear out of a classy ladies mouth.
Ok, You asked op so there is your answer. But that basically hits the main points.
Mr. I | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 12:38:05 AM | Chivalry --- bah its dead
femnazis killed it simple as that and still dig the knife in via womens studies in universities
ever seen a mens studies course ? i have not
can a man enrole in a womans studies course at university ? I have no idea - someone enlighten me there
everyman for himself in this me me me me driven society world
oh and if they say i can open my own door - walk through yourself and slam it in their face ( the door that is ) but be nice to old ladies - grandma types - they get a twinkle in the eye when they see chivalry - it reminds them of a better era | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 1:20:54 AM | (previous post - one granny i met was plain rude, conceited and a control freak, and i suspect shes could be one of those who started the feminist movement..., she likes to make mean comments and expect you to agree, she also likes to put everyone down, and this includes her own son!)
i can see reasons, i can see how disappointing and discouraging and futile it has been when all gentlemen are getting when they do their deeds, are contempts from women, not appreciation, this is not only hurtful but the height of stupidity and disrespect.
then in turn, gentlemen become no longer gentle, and as protective fathers, those who were hurt only encourage their sons to be tough, and this toughness has somehow disintegrated into jerkiness, then women respond with b****iness, and heres come the viscious cycle of world flooded with ugliness world with decency and manners washed away.
now, we have men sneering at other men for being a gentlemen, saying theyre weak, and preaching that you have to be nasty so the women will follow you 2 inches behide your shoes, hm...., then there are women sneering at other women for being a lady, saying what the f***, laughing and mocking them for being incapable.
i would still like to believe, in the heart of heart, we still want our traditional roles, tho at times i do become buffled, and wonder how realistic i am to want this or i am just naive? but thank you all for the inputs, the advices have been very helpful, and for all gentlemen out there, dont despair, i myself would happily do my ladys dues, and when you meet a woman who forgot her manners or simply wasnt aware, shine your light, maybe all she needs is to know, even a feminist, can be converted, dont give up!
p.s. what is OP? | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 3:35:22 AM | | Due to the continuing moral degradation of modern society, which possibly began with the era mentioned above, chivalry is all but irrelevant. Teenage fashion keeps in step with the drug/music culture (punk, glam, grunge), yet teen fashion is more or less the bread and butter of the women's fashion industry. We all know that fashion is the mantra most women live by. It's downright unhealthy for western society as a whole. No I'm not a religious fundamentalist calling people infidels. I'm just trying to make sense of OPs query. It just doesn't matter anymore. Chivalry? It's a romantic idea and it may appear when something romantic happens. But don't expect to find it as anything tangible, or down some alley at some secret club. Then again if it's secret.... | |
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ousu
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 45 | |
| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 10:16:22 AM | >>can a man enrole in a womans studies course at university ? I have no idea - someone enlighten me there
He can--if he wants to be the subject of verbal abuse from the rest of the women's studies class.
Just a tiny remark: Men's Studies or New Men's Studies available in Northern America, Critique of Men or Critical Studies on Men in Europe, Studies of men in Norway (at least) - so, for sure, you will find a course suitable for you somewhere. ;)
And I believe, none has turned away from the women's studies --- wouldn't it be against the policy of unis?
(And the original topic: carrying somebody's shoppings or things like that have nothing to be with... chivalry, gallantry... external things do not always tell about the attitude. You need to go the sources of actions.) | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 10:45:21 AM | I would venture so say that chivalry is dead in some cultures. American for instance. If you can call that a culture. Chivalry is alive and well in many of the British Common Wealth countries like Australia, Canada, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, as well as in most European countries.
So no it's not dead but it is scarce in America. | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:26:47 AM |
Just a tiny remark: Men's Studies or New Men's Studies available in Northern America, Critique of Men or Critical Studies on Men in Europe, Studies of men in Norway (at least) - so, for sure, you will find a course suitable for you somewhere. ;)
And I believe, none has turned away from the women's studies --- wouldn't it be against the policy of unis?
Critique of men? Awesome. Is there a critique of women course? | |
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bosoxx
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 48 | |
| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:37:26 AM | O.k......I don't think chivalry was necessarily killed by women solely....I think society as a whole has contributed to that!Here is my question though....Is chivilry only directed towards men? My view of chivilry and manners in general goes as follows...It's a way for people to show their appreciation for another human bieng,a way for us to get along in a civilized society!!
If women want chivilry than be receptive to it,show your appreciation when a man opens a door, pulls a chair,offers to pay in a situation he isn't obligated to! Men want to know those little things have great signifigance for you.We are trying to show you that we appreciate your humanity and your beauty,but we also are deserving of manners! Show up on time(your time is not more valuable than mine),or call if your gonna be late! Heck just show up period! On a first date...don't order a bottle of dom AND 2 lobsters if your date doesn't(true story - No lie!),In other words: If you wish to be treated well then-treat well...do unto others is the bedrock of what manners are all about!!!It's NOT just men who have forgotten how to behave,women are just as guilty! Chivalry is NOT a one-sided proposition!
 bosoxx | |
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bosoxx
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 49 | |
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| did women kill chivalry? what do we need to do to bring it back?
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:50:25 AM | external things do not always tell about the attitude. You need to go the sources of actions.)
How true, 'ousu', how true. Whenever I see something plausible between the couple on my out & about, I do chuckle, thinking  and at the same time I'm glad that such a positivness is visible in public. Having said that, I don't take it as a face value or these public gestures I put on pedestal simply because no one really knows what goes behind the closed doors. Just a thought. | |
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