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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 12/22/2006 3:19:57 PM | Wushu Kung Fu is an amazing Martial Art! I practice at Damerji's Martial Arts in Windsor ontario. We play full contact Sanshou Light contact Kinda, Tao Lou ( forms with huge gymnastic component) and TuiShou (thus my name LOL)
Wushu Kung Fu has many things to offer. Our club is much like a family and truly we have lots of fun learning control and power in the game.
I only started a year ago ( 34 LOL My midlife crisis) but it is by far the best thing I have ever done for myself. My confidence is outstanding and my ability to complete any task I set my mind to is amazing. I tell everyone about it. It changed my life!
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 12/22/2006 5:55:14 PM | I'm a green belt Okinawan gojo-ryu and also green belt in kobudo. It's really frustrating at any beginning especially the blocks, etc. I got into karate because I had to hold at least a yellow belt before they would let me join kobudo so I'd get a good grounding in the stances --so true -- I only intended to get to yellow belt level but because it was so difficult and frustrating I stuck with it and now am doing even more difficult and frustrating combos, katas, etc. but for sure, my sparring and self-defense has really improved.
I try and encourage the white belts to hang in, to praise something they did well, to give them a sense of encouragement to hang in there for 4-5 months at least to grade. Once they make the first grading they go on, but many quit after they get to yellow belt. It's really a mind-body-spirit thing and it's not easy to put it all together. I'm in my third year, and only now can I see the progress I made from last year to this year --- progress comes in teeny, tiny steps and much repetition. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 2/3/2008 6:30:56 AM | | HI GUYS NEW TO THIS STUFF ! I am a bkack belt shotokan , done some judo , and some shukokai under tommy morris , and shotokan under sensei Asano , loved the training side of things , but POlitics killed it for me , that aside , you will always find good instructors and arts out there , you just have too LOOK hard enough eh ? just now I am looking for help , has anybody heard of the fighting art called something like SIOG , I belive TOMMY LEE , SOMEBODY , you know the film star that played beside will smith in " men in black " made a film and he done this style of fighting , been told , its fast , effect , and to the POINT ! when in kobe I saw guys dressed in black runnig around claiming to be ninja , yet they where out in the open seeking members , what a joke !!! the reall ninja would surly be hard to FIND EH ? SO LOOK HARD AND LONG AND GO FOR RECOMENDATIONS FROM OTHER PEOPLE ! I:E TOMMY MORRIS , ( SCOTLAND ) TERRY O'NEIL ( ENGLAND ) FRANK BRENNAN ( ENGLAND ) DANNY THOMSON ( RENFREW ) THE KRAUSE BROTHERS ( SCOTLAND ) AND MANY MANY MORE ! THANKS FOR LISTENING AND HOPE YOU CAN HELP , CHEERS | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 2/9/2008 4:53:10 PM |
Kungfu, Judo or aikido next
Well, whichever one you try, I bet you'll do pretty good at it with all your experience in the other martial arts.
I've done Shotokan (2nd Kyu brown belt) , Taekwondo (both ITF and WTF...different ranks in both)..learned a few Hapkido techniques from the TKD instructors (those joint-locks hurt like hell!  But at least they're easy to do/remember ) and recently got into Northern Shaolin Kung-Fu.
The kung-fu is a bit different from Shotokan...I had trouble making my techniques flow from one to the other at first, but after about 2 weeks, I got the hang of it.
Unforunately where I live now doesn't have kung-fu ...but I'll be eventually signing up for Kenpo Jujitsu classes (then after a year or three in that, I might try shootfighting ) | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/1/2008 8:48:53 AM | Ah...the obligatory Steven Seagal comment...I'm suprised there were no Chuck Norris jokes so far...
Ok, SS studied Aikido in Japan. There is a reason he can do some of those nifty maneuvers you see in the movies...he's 6'3 tall and built like a tree trunk. Most of aikido's throws use the opponent's strength against them...but if you add the additional firepower of a massive man behind them you can create some truly spectactular throws. For those of use who grew up in the 70's & 80's we do remember when Steve challenged Chuck Norris at the height of his popularity and Norris DECLINED.
Divide the martial arts into three sections...hard, soft, and Insta-kill.
Hard style...karate, TKD, etc...lots of straight movements focused on hard & fast knockouts, takedowns, and destruction. Good basic kick-butt fighting that can be quickly learned.
Soft Styles...Kung fu, Tai Chi, Capoeira, etc...circular movements, very beautiful to watch, focus on Internal Strength and making the opponent wish he'd never started the fight. Also takes many years to master.
Insta-kill...Aikido, Krav Maga, etc...really no explaination needed here, eh? A streetfight with practicioners will typically last no more than 5 seconds from the time of the first strike and someone is generally going to the emergency room or the morgue. Skill level increases only with time & experience...and lots of it. You can teach someone the forms & do the sparring but it takes a lot of streetfights to make it a truly devastating way of life. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/1/2008 8:53:07 AM | | Oh yeah....for Bouncers, Cops, & security types...Aikido & Jui Jutsu are definitely the styles to go with...they give one an option as to how nice or nasty you want to treat someone...from nice takedowns & holds that immobilize without harming (i.e. No Lawsuits) to bone-breaking & death-dealing for those special occasions where you are dealing with armed suspects or multiple attackers. | |
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EH1
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Joined: 1/8/2008
Msg: 32 | |
| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/1/2008 4:19:01 PM | Interesting thread!!!!!!!!!!
Here is what I think. It depends on what you want to get out of martial arts. If you want to lean how to FIGHT then the answer is MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing, and BJJ. These disiplines although MMA is a combination of them all are geard towards consitant combat against an opponent without holding anything back. You train to fight an opponent who also trains and is skilled untill one of you cannot continue or if the time runs out whichever one did the more clear cut damage wins.
One thing that I want to strongly empahsis is that some martial arts are geared towards self defence and building self esteem and not towards preparing you for a fight or how to hurt people badly. Example of martial arts that are more geared towards self defence is tae kwon do and most Kung Fu that is taught in America.
SELF DEFENCE and fighting are NOT always the same thing. A fight is when two oppoents engage each other untill one is unable to continue. Self defence is about neutralzing and keeping and opponent who unjustly attacks you at bay untill the situation can be safely resolved. For example if someone tries to mug you at a gas Station and you use Brazialin Jui jitsu to break their arm ect............. you could end up with a lawsuit or in extreme cases even in jail despite the fact that you were attacked. Trust me it has happened before. If you use boxing and catch a mugger with a solid right hand and he is on queer street and then like your in actuall competion you jump in to finish him with a barrage of punches only there is no ref to save him. Some little old lady dirves in and witnesses it. Even though you were the one who was attacked the old lady will tell the cops that she saw a helpless and dazed mugger beaten within an inch of his life and you will almost surely go down with a serious assault charge.
Tae Kwon Do and Kung fu are more effective for self defence because they teach you techniues more geared towards keeping an opponent and bay and offered some kind of resistance to an attack rather then actually beating the living crap out of them and winning the fight. This is much more practical for self defence. Yeah, I know people who watch UFC, boxing and K-1 will say that TKD and Kung Fu don't work in real life but that is in a sport with higly trained atheletes engaging in a fight so of couse it doesn't work there but in a self defense situation where a criminal or bully is not really trying to win a fight against you but to take something from you TKD and Kung Fu can be very effective for defending yourself. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/1/2008 5:28:43 PM | A well-trained martial artist, no matter WHAT art, will tend to be far better off in a fight than an untrained thug.
I started out with TKD & Kung Fu...I got fired four times for excessive force as a bouncer/bartender before I got into Aikido...then I stayed out of trouble. Joint locks , throws, and take-downs are WONDERFUL for bouncer/cop/security use. You can use a variety of techniques for a variety of situations, and there are definitely different levels of pain you can use to control people through the judicious use of those techniques...from "Ok, ya got me" to "ARGhYER BREAKINMYARM!"
A jump side kick or a spinning roundhouse to the head tend to get one into deep ca-ca as they are VERY high profile moves...the onlookers may not have seen what happened prior to you throwing that kick, but they sure as heck saw you kick that schmuck halfway across the room! And in today's litigeous society...well, they're just not a good idea for a security-type professional to use very often.
Having to deal with a drunken opponent is more or less like fighting someone who is working at half your speed...so you get a bit of discretion time to decide how you want to deal with someone...nice or nasty...
Dealing with muggers/etc half the time they're either high or jonesin for a high...so you can fake them out easily just by looking pointedly over their shoulder and smiling. "Ya know, I don't think that cop's gonna approve of this..." They turn & look...POW! Thank God for paranoia! | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/2/2008 4:51:24 AM |
Ok, SS studied Aikido in Japan. There is a reason he can do some of those nifty maneuvers you see in the movies...he's 6'3 tall and built like a tree trunk. Most of aikido's throws use the opponent's strength against them...but if you add the additional firepower of a massive man behind them you can create some truly spectactular throws. For those of use who grew up in the 70's & 80's we do remember when Steve challenged Chuck Norris at the height of his popularity and Norris DECLINED.
Steven Seagal is a big guy, but Morihei Ueshiba (Aikido's founder) wasn't. In fact, Ueshiba was a small guy (he was under 5' tall), but he sure could throw people around. Bruce Lee's original art was Wing Chun. That was created by a woman and is ideal for someone who's not so tall or muscular. In fact, different kung fu styles are best for certain body types.
If you want to learn a martial arts system which works, look at what law enforcement agencies and militaries around the world use. In the USA, Aikido seems to be the favorite for law enforcement personnel. In Japan, it's Judo. For the Israeli military it's Krav Magá.
My Tae Kwon Do instructor said it takes 2 years of TKD training to become proficient in self-defense. I've heard that it takes 6 years of Aikido training to become proficient in the self-defense aspects of that art. If you want to learn self-defense quick, then Krav Magá would be a good choice. In that case you'd want to bypass the traditional Asian martial arts. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 35 | |
| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/2/2008 5:43:08 PM | UN-fortunately many people in the USA want instant gratification and reward
without putting forward the discipline, hard work and perseverance it takes
to become really good at ONE martial art.
Does proficient mean you walk away with major wounds to live another day ?
The true "black belt" was a white belt that became soiled by years of training,
eventually taking on the appearance of the darker colors.
When I hear about guys "mastering" 4 or 5 martial arts, I become extremely skeptical.
Nothing is quick, nothing is simple - each situation in a real street fight is unique.
Learning "canned" moves or scenarios is okay for concepts, but it's not the real dynamic ever changing world. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 3/2/2008 8:19:15 PM | My father started me in hard & soft styles at the same time at age three...he worked for the government and wanted me to understand the balance needed for different types of situations...when one has to move around quite a bit, and it makes staying in one dojo for life rather difficult...add in ADHD and stick military style discipline in there and you get someone who studies until he's totally figured out what he's doing...then moves on to the next bright shiny art.
Some "canned" moves are great standbys...it all depends on how the attacker comes in...and strangely enough, most of them come at you dang near the same...right cross to start with...I'm sorry, but when I see that coming I almost want to laugh...it gives one a HUGE variety of options and most people have their favorite two-four things they want to do in that situation. For me, since I've studied different arts and several at the same time...it all depends on exactly how annoyed I am at the person for bugging me with violent action as to how I'm going to deal with them. Sometimes I'll just block everything they throw until they are too tired to punch anymore, then I'll ask them if they are done yet? Another time you trap them in an arm bar and plant them firmly against the wall, a few raps of head VS wall tend to resolve the issue...Other times it's grab, snap the arm at the elbow, throw them on the ground, stomp & go home...then again I'll try something that I've never used before in combat just for the heck of it...depends entirely on mood. There are literally HUNDREDS of ways to go depending on what you've learned, who you learned from and why you learned it...and when you've been in literally hundreds of fights...it's no longer exciting, it's kind of boring & annoying.
Of course, that's why I'm teaching the little monkey (pic on profile) hard & soft styles at the same time...being able to modify one's approach in the middle of a fight can make all the difference in the world. That half second of "what the heck is THAT??" when you switch styles gives you an opening. Example, take two TKD guys giving each other a serious spar match and all the sudden one of them switches over to Wing Chun...different stances...different movements...it'll confuse the other fighter if he's not seen it before...and that leaves OPENINGS. Expect the unexpected 
Bruce Lee used much the same tactics in his style...he would pick up techniques that he liked and make them work for him...that's why his JKD is different from his students...his experience was different and so is theirs. Every teacher has his/her favorite forms, movements, kicks, punches, throws...etc...and that changes the style that they practice ever so slightly to favor those movements...which changes that art ever so slightly to the students of that particular master...and if you take from different arts to create for yourself your own way...well, what have you go then?? Hopefully something that Works For You!
there is much to be said for tradition...but there is a point where it becomes redundant and stagnant...but that's just my view.
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/23/2008 10:29:42 AM | Hey smiley. (sorry this ran very long).
I think I'd like to add my little bit to your post here, and then I'm going to have to quit reading the martial arts forums as the bickering and ongoing pissing contests in them frustrate me to no end. I may address this at the end of this.
I think you've already got the right idea. Find what you enjoy, for, whatever personal reasons you enjoy it, and go with it. As for your question of which styles are good and bad, well that is all relative to what you hope to find in them. As you move from style to style, even though you are learning new and different things, don't forget the things that you liked about the previous stuff. Integrate. I'm sure this will upset the puritans in the crowd, but so be it.
My history in martial arts is similar to yours, and I found that the teacher, and their methodology usually had more influence on whether I enjoyed the style then the style itself. My personal favorites are Isshinryu Karate (as it was tout to me, and as I teach it) which uses striking, kicking, throwing, grappling, pressure points, but still holds true to the forms (kata) the art part of martial arts. My second fav is Tai Chi or Tai qi chuan, if you can find an instructor who goes beyond the health aspect and also teaches the combative aspect, which also includes the above mentioned elements. And finally Arnis de Mano, for the same reasons.
Now to address some of the comments I've read above. The idea that all fights go to the ground, this is an urban myth propagated by the new extreme fighting sports. Going to the ground is advantageous , on the street, esp. if the guy has friends standing around, the last place you want to be is on the ground. Your going to get your ass handed to you, because they are not going to stand by and watch you arm bar (or what ever other submition technique you use) their friend. I work in the private security industry, and I have seldom allowed a confrontation to go to the ground, and when it has I gotten hurt.
This bickering between styles... the truth is we all train in systems which are potentially dangerous, and as such we use methods to increase our, and our students personal safety. So yes, Karateka kick and punch the air (Or better shields, and bags), Akido, and Ju-jitsu players cooperate with one another, and in Arnis you strike weapon on weapon rather than hitting the opponent. These are all safety measures that have to be there for liability reasons.
If you are looking for personal self defense, my gift to you. I would normally charge about $5oo dollars for this, its yours free to use at your own discretion.
Self Defense 101.
1. Secret Karate move number 36.
This move is seldom practiced and few teach it, but it is probably responsible for more peoples continued safety than any other move. Run Away. Go to places of safety, lots of light, other people, the police, etc.
2. If you find yourself in a situation where you can not run away, and the person is demanding some material object from you (wallet, watch, car) give it to them, insure your personal safety. More likely then not these things are insured, and if they are not they are most certainly replaceable, your heath and life are not.
3. If you go to social gatherings where fights are likely to occur, find new places to go.
4. If you can not run away, do to conditions, not a personal or prideful choice, and the person is endangering your personal safety or the safety of your loved ones.... Fight, fight to win, attack any vitail target that presents itself, eyes, knees, groin, ears; gain the opportunity to run, and do so. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/24/2008 11:55:17 AM | | Boxing/Wrestling is a good combo...as is combining any two legit stand up and grappling styles. If I had to say which was the best combo I'd have to say BJJ and Muay Thai...hands down. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/24/2008 2:19:45 PM | Like Bruce Lee said..."Use what works for YOU!"
I don't think I've ever actually run across a "bad" martial art...but bad teachers?? CERTAINLY.
The other end of the spectrum is that many people are stuck without choices for their first martial art...when I was growing up you were lucky if there was one or two in a medium-sized city. Now one can usually find at least 10 in that medium-sized city.
Then if you move constantly (military/gov't) you have to learn whatever you can, wherever you can. Use what you like, discard what doesn't work for you.
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/25/2008 9:42:01 AM | my issue is with most of the traditional martial arts dojos. The fact is that most of the stuff isn't relevant in a street situation. Doing kata in an art like Karate which was originally designed for soldiers wearing armor just isn't practical.
Now Judo...that's a traditional M.A. that works. Wrestling...any of the traditionals that are grappling based. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/25/2008 8:05:56 PM |
Doing kata in an art like Karate which was originally designed for soldiers wearing armor just isn't practical.
This is a popular misconception, and indeed many of the Japanese styles were/are. The Okinawan Stuff was not, after being taken over by Japan, it's standing armies were disbanded, and all it's military weapons outlawed. The hand (or Te) fighting system which was developed was designed for and by fishermen, and farmers, to defend themselves against bandits and samurai alike. Karate (a generic term really) became used as the Te system was blended with the fighting forms of China. (Kara-Te, China-hand: Often referred to as empty hand). And it contains all the elements (as Karate should but many do not) that you discuss.
The name Karate, didn't come into stand usage until around the late 40s, when it became integrated into the Japanese school system as a fitness program.
Judo...that's a traditional M.A. that works.
Judo is not a "Traditional" Style, it is a fairly modern sport form of Ju-jitsu. As many of the "do" styles of Karate are sport adaptations of the original styles.
Anyway all trivial and unnecessary information.
I go back to my original comment, find what you like, do what you like.
D. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/25/2008 11:35:00 PM | | I train in Krav Maga myself. I've also have had a lot of training in judo, my brothers father in-law is a grand master in Judo and has taught me a lot. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/27/2008 8:04:33 AM | so why don't we see more Krav stylists competing???
I'm just curious as to how effective the stripping and trap fighting techniques really are on the street. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/27/2008 8:19:06 PM | Krav Mega isn't your typical martial art for say. Unlike like a lot of other Martial arts that deals with mostly with hand to hand unarmed combat which can be transformed into a sport, it's tough to transform a martial art like Krav Mega that deals with mostly weaponry defense and life threaten attacks against an attacker or attackers, to turn it in to a sport. Krav Mega does have competitions but it's nothing like a traditional competition, it mostly deals with how well you can defend yourself against an attacker with a weapon or multiple attackers on an individual basis and how well you manage to get yourself out of those attacks alive.
Krav Mega is a very efficient defense against close-armed real life threatening attacks. A lot militaries throughout the world train their soldiers in a variation of Krav Mega for close armed combat defense. Krav Mega essentially takes the best real life threatening defense techniques from each known martial art throughout the world and implies them to real life threatening scenarios. I have trained with diff types of black belts that also train in Krav Mega from other martial arts from BJJ black belts to Mu Tai black belts; it’s a pretty diverse martial art in terms of how many diff types of martial artist train in it. Krav Mega is more of a hybrid martial art then a typical martial art.
That's the best that I can explain it. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/29/2008 2:25:19 PM | | im a black belt in judo, now im learning systema spetsnaz. It's probably the best self defence you can learn in real life terms and its much better than krav maga imo. im still a beginner though! | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 9/29/2008 3:59:45 PM | | Systma spetsnaz is more comparable to Kung Fu. In fact a lot of Systema spetsnaz moves orginated from Kung Fu. Krav Mega on the other hand takes best defense skills from all known martial arts. With that said no martial art imo is better then the next, they all serve their purpose. Martial arts like Krav Mega owe a lot to other martial arts, because if it wasn't for the other martial arts Krav Mega wouldn't be what it is today. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 5/11/2009 3:24:53 AM | | Sure, almost every fight ends up on the ground, unless one person runs away. What happens when you break your attacker's knee? He falls on the ground. What happens when you execute a leg reap on your attacker? He falls on the ground. What happens when you kick him in the nuts and then punt his melon to the moon? He falls on the ground. What happens when you knock your attacker unconcious? He falls on the ground. What happens when you execute an entering throw on your attacker? He falls on the ground. Yep, hundreds of ways that a fight can go to the ground. I'm not too crazy about taking the trip voluntarily when my attacker could have friends ready to kick me in the melon. I've studied Shuri-ryu karate for about 3 years, and hapkido for over 4. I love the versatility of hapkido. We learn hard techniques as well as soft, with what I'm learning leaning towards the softer side, which seems to be a little more vicious. I'm not crazy about newbies. They tend to compensate for their bad technique with speed. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 5/11/2009 3:54:43 AM | | My personal experience is that anything associated with jujutsu is good for fighting. From the roots of Japanese jujutsu (pick your favorite spelling) , you have hapkido, aikido, judo, and the Brazilian style. All are known for effectiveness in neutralizing threats. Pick one. Contrary to popular belief, bjj is not the only style to teach ground work. | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 6/29/2009 11:45:45 PM | | I think any martial arts is good , if want to get into the UFC ,go with brazilian jiujitsu.I did kung fu chi ko do for a about ayear , and whent out of bissness | |
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| Martial Arts - Whats good/whats not
Posted: 6/30/2009 8:44:14 AM | I think the main reason you don't see Krav specialists in tournament situations is...it REALLY isn't meant for anything other than totally destruction of the opponent.
Israeli's don't screw around. They want to kill/maim as many opponents as fast as possible. It really just doesn't translate well into something at a tournament fight where you Don't want to kill/maim anyone. | |
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