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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/2/2006 4:20:05 PM |
The government of the US doesn't want to call us Native Americans as it makes them be an occupying force.
Hey, life is tough. Everybody else's ancestors were either pushed or had to move out of the lands they once lived on also...
All historical evidence we've recovered so far seems to lend credence to the theory that "Native" Americans migrated here from Asia.
I don't feel guilty about living on land where other people once lived or was taken away from someone else. Someone's trying to take MY land away from ME as we speak.
Who?
Those who compete with me in the job market. Bill collectors... anyone I have any outstanding debts with.
I don't have any collective guilt about this because of my european ancestry. Someone chased them out of Asia and before that; Africa... Nobody OWNS land and there's no buffalo herds to chase anymore. It's tougher on everyone.
Yes, at one time the earth was sparsely populated and all the land was free. It's not like that anymore. Get used to it. Land is a scarce resource now.
Life is a struggle. If you want this land, you're going to have to buy it or fight to win it back; just like everyone else. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/2/2006 4:36:07 PM | ^^^^^^^^do you have to prove your ancestry do you have to have it recorded as how much of one blood runs through your veins to be called what you are. My race has been moved to parts of the country they thought that no one could live on.They where driven there like animals They tried to commit genocide to the tribes. Prove to me you are European?What % are you?  | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/2/2006 5:00:30 PM | | I must speak...LOL... I have all races in my family my brother-in-law came here from Cuba many years ago and he became a U.S. citizen he had to learn the American way and he did. He fought in Vietnam for our country, but here is the difference to me I also have a brother-in-law that is here from Mexico he has been in our country for 12 years and refuses to give up his right to citizen ship as he would call it to Mexico. He barely still can speak english and is always constantly putting Americans down he feels that he has the right to come to this country and have the freedom to work, and send most of his money back to Mexico. I lost the relationship I had with my sister because I decided to support the removal of Mexicans from my neighborhood by putting pressure on the Lanlords by letting them know that I would make it public that they were renting to illegals so guess what they moved out do I feel wrong no!!!!! As I said I'm of Hispanic background but I was born here and my family are citizens I think Mexicans have come here and took jobs,used the system,destroyed health care, and we have people that have the right to be here that dont get shit!!! And then to have the nerve as my ex-neighbors did as to tell me to go back to where I came from when they saw my puerto rican flag flying along with the American flag,,,,,EXCUSE ME????? I think puertorico the last time I checked was a part of the U.S. And I LOVE THIS COUNTRY.... I dont work here for 5.00 an hr to send my money back to puertorico,,,,,,LOL | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/2/2006 10:37:30 PM | Hi: I had a friend who was going to do his PhD at the University of Kentucky. He wanted to study the economic impact of illegal immigrants in Kentucky's agrarian economy. He hypothesized that if only something like 15,000 illegal immigrants were rounded up and arrested, Kentucky's economy would *collapse*. So I think you are quite right in pointing out the structure behind the facade. It is really funny to hear Americans (and Canadians for that matter) talk about "illegal immigrants", when the true citizens of our respective countries are our native brothers and sisters. *We* who came after them are the true immigrants. As for the process of assimilation, I do get a kick out of those who say they (immigrants) should drop their old customs and habits and adopt the ways of the new country. I guess that element of democracy--that being a right to self-determination is too bothersome for some to accept, yet they'll be the first to proudly beat their breasts and say to the rest of the world that they are the "apex of human development".
cheers | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/2/2006 10:56:45 PM | If illegal immigrants are so vital to the economy, then why didn't the American economy take a big hit on the may 1st boycott where illegal immigrants stopped working?
They called it a march for immigrants rights, but really it was a march for illegal immigrants rights.
I really agree with what mayor Lou Barletta is doing in Hazelton PA. He has alot of courage to stand up to all the threats he is getting(threats of lawsuits, threats of violence, verbal attacks calling him a nazi). A lesser man(such as former Gov. Pete Wilson of California)would have caved in under the pressure and the threats, but he stood firm in the face of all that. The federal government is not doing its job on enforcing laws against illegal immigration, so this mayor felt he had to do something and I don't blame him. He consulted with immigration lawyers to make sure that his law would stand up in the supreme court, and I think it has a good chance of holding up under scrutiny. If it does, you can bet a whole bunch of other cities and some states will follow this mayor's lead and pass similar laws. Many other cities and states are already considering doing the same thing(actually the state of Georgia already passed a similar law). | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/2/2006 11:46:04 PM | Hi:I said Kentucky, my friend.....and *think* about it--why would they show their faces if they are *illegal* immigrants?? And if you are an illegal immigrant working for someone, don't you think there would be an implicit threat that if you did, you'd be turned in by your employer? And how do you know thay *all* stopped working? Did you go around and count them yourself?
cheers... | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 12:08:42 AM | i cannot professionally comment upon some things, but ah , the closing of hospitals, that was one of my specialties. Historicallyl, CA has been the one state with the lowest hospital bed occupancy in the country because of it's original lobbying against regulations controlling the numbers of hospital beds. each dinky little hospital had to have the fancy equipement, even if the professionals using the equipment did not do a sufficent number of procedures to warrant the quality, let alone cost, of service. throughout the usa amongst the states with controls against overbedding and also with regionalized high cost services, the cost of care for the underinsured and bad debt was spread amongst all hospitals and all payors as part of a national experiment. this unfortunatley went sour when a well intenioned union sued, thinking that certain of the payers were getting a better deal than their retirement fund. in the long run they won the battle and lost the war because their costs skyrocketed upwards with the resulting deregulation.
the corporations in CA then rebelled and took on HMO's and managed care with a reactionary stance against the rising costs of health care in their state. the costs went down, the quality went down and w/o the spread of costs of indigency and bad debt, the inner city hospitals went down. due to the excessive bed building in CA, beds had to close and you can bet your bippie they closed in the more medically indigent areas. whereas in the past, the docs just crossed the street and went to the neighboring half filled hospital if they couldn't get what they wanted--todays' CA docs are wilting under the pressures of HMOs, many have already left the state, many are going salaried and some are just taking paying patients, letting them pay out of pocket or do their own billing. many underground networks are forming amongst patients to provide meds to the poor. some are taking animal medications, particuarly antibiotics or buying unregulated prescriptions online from out of usa, some of which are diluted or bogus.
so to blame this on illegal immigrants is ludicrous when you assess the forest and not a small cove of trees. most hospitalizations reflect excessive alchohol consumption, smoking, poor health habits, drunk driving, et al. public health clinics are a small portions of the health care bill and often do not lead to hospitalization. if i can pay for hospitalizations due to alchohol and tobacco consumption, someone else can pay for a child's education. and what about the young paying for the elderly? the point of society is to balance. else, go live on a mountain in a cave and pay for yourself. should there be illegal immigration. legally speaking no. should there be illegal drinking? drunken driving, etc.? legally speaking no. do people have the right to health care. in this county, only in an emergency. and what is an emergency? an emergency is deemed if you will likely die in 24 hours. if you have cancer and won't die until 6 months, that is not an emergency.
as for canada, similar problems are arising with health care costs. i know because affliliated consultants have been called into your country to ax away at these costs. with new and highly expensive technology, AIDS and other costly "acknowledged" immune deficiency disorders, the costs of pharmaceutical and research, not to mention perinatal and neonatal deliveries ---health care costs are rising, the rich are paying for additional services, poor are dying and those with non traditional diseases are told they are imagining it all--a much less costly approach.
by the way this has been going on for the past 13 years at least. mergers, redesign, closures, etc. CA with way too many beds open, continues to suffer through the closures and communities are in denial and ignorant of the overall picture. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 12:37:59 AM | They show their faces because the Bush administration would not round up and deport illegal aliens who demonstrate in the streets, but then again, if Kerry had been elected, he'd have declared automatic amnesty to all illegals so the amount of illegals we'd have now under a Kerry administration would be small. There are probably a few democrats and some republicans though who, if they were president, would take the opportunity to round up and deport illegals who so brazenly marched in the streets making demands. Heck, Mexico would never allow huge crowds of American citizens who were in mexico illegally to demonstrate in mexico streets demanding rights. Mexican police and military would round them up and deport them and who could blame them?
And no, I don't really think most employers would threaten illegals with turning them in to ICE if they publicly marched. Besides, ICE under Bush is sorely underfunded, and they don't have near the manpower to go around and apprehend and deport all the illegals who took off work that day. However, I'll bet some illegals lost their job for taking off work that day, and were replaced with legal workers.
Do you really think all those people who marched in the streets, many waving mexican flags, were here legally? Some probably were though. I think this really goes back to some people really not understanding how lax the government is, especially under Bush, about enforcing laws against illegal aliens.
And I never said "all" of them stopped working. Basically the organizers intent was for illegals to take off work in protest against the government contemplating new laws which would cause more enforcement action to be taken against illegal aliens. They wanted to cause the economy to take a hit and and in doing so they would prove they were crucial to the economy so that the senate and expecially the house would back off on enforcement legislation and just grant amnesty. Far as I can tell though, the economy did not take a big hit that day, and it was just barely a blip on the radar. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 3:30:03 AM | | The first solution is to enforce all our laws including immigration. I have lived in one of their neighborhoods before, and I can tell you from experience, that they think they can play their music outside as loud as they want. Just as with American kids, if the law doesn't do their job, they think they can do what ever they want. The minute they started using our legal system against us, and the ACLU to try and force their language and culture on us, was the minute they screwed up. If they don't want to blend in and learn English, then we can use that as probable cause to detain them, and make them prove they are citizens. As far as their attempt to combine Mexico, the U.S., and Canada, that is failing as well. We have a third party called the Constitution party who is growing like wildfire and they are serious about preserving the American way of life. They even have a veterans coalition now. Everything they do now can and will be reversed. Just as with NAFTA, the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization act was passed without the consent of the American people. It may be time to cancel that as well, and restore immigration to pre 1965 levels. We are about to lose political control to people who don't think like Americans. | |
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 36 | |
| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 3:54:42 AM |
We have a third party called the Constitution party who is growing like wildfire and they are serious about preserving the American way of life.
If they are to have any credibility, they'll have to address the co-opting of the 14th amendment by corporate "personages", otherwise they're just like the other shills. Fix that quasi-legal loophole and there's no need to worry about NAFTA, NAU, etc.
We are about to lose political control to people who don't think like Americans.
Considering the political landscape these days, ...that's a bad thing?
I have lived in one of their neighborhoods before, and I can tell you from experience, that they think they can play their music outside as loud as they want. Just as with American kids, if the law doesn't do their job, they think they can do what ever they want.
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 5:44:14 AM | Immigrants do assimilate, but it may take a few generations.
No one can expect a family fresh off the boat to turn into the Simpsons. Studies show that the first generation speaks the native language, second is usually bilingual but favoring English and the third speaks only English.
Everyone is eventually assimilated.
Its not so much "them" as it is our intolerance of peoples with differences in cultures that's the ticket. Just like in the good old days when America tried to dress Indians up as white people and make them behave accordingly, but finally escorted them west and took their lands when they didnt look so good .... | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 8:31:00 AM | I'm amazed that your friend could even suggest such a thing.... I find it difficult to believe that a number of low wage earners, equivalent to .00375% of the states population could have a devastating affect on the economy. As a matter of fact I find it difficult to believe it would even register as a blip on the economic radar! The annual GDP of Kentucky is $135,412,000,000. 15,000 illegal ALIENS earning an average wage of $6.00 per hour, if counted 100% against the GDP (which it isn't) is less that .001%. To put it in perspective, it's about $1 for every $1000 of the GDP.
Now that we’ve covered the most they could possibly contribute, let’s look at what they take from the state of Kentucky…. Education $67,000,000, Social Services $118,000,000, Medical $322,000,000. Perhaps you should find a gentle way to tell your friend to change his dissertation from economics to literary fiction….. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:20:47 AM | Amen Paul K. And its not just CA! I live in Ohio and the immigrants here from anywhere seem to get free everything... and I see the Mexicans in WalMart now for years sending home money weekly for their families to spend in Mexico! Also, there are border towns on the USA/Mexican border, that are nothing at all but Post Office boxes up into the 1000's for people who LIVE in Mexico and come across once a month to get their US Federal checks for babies born here and many other entitlement WE tax payers pay for. Yet I see homeless US citizens in our streets.. and women like my daughter who cant get help financially until her 3rd trimester. What does she live on til then? But my Mexican neighbors here are "entitled" to free rent, food stamps, cars, education, jobs, etc. Amazing isnt it. I know of a restaurant here that is owned by a middle eastern couple. They got lots of money and tax breaks to run it. NOW they sold it to family members who just got here ..and yup.. now THEY run it with the same tax payers money and tax breaks for 3 yrs. Guess what THEY will do in 3 yrs??????
We need desperately to stop and take care of the ones our own already and CLOSE the borders to new ones coming in, let alone do something about the illegals! WE are being ate alive by all this.
On top of that we are loosing companies and jobs to forgein countries. Ohio used to be one of the best places to live and work.. Not anymore....good jobs here are hard to find. We are loosing companies and not able to draw in new ones. And outsourcing our jobs is a HUGE reason why!!! When you call to get help for your computer hookup your calls are sent to INDIA!!! OMG.. what ARE we coming to??????
I could go on.. but I wont. Some will not agree.. some will have more to add.. but reality is, this country is going down fast for MANY more reasons that these we are discussing. And most are just sitting with blinders on and will b itch like crazy when it happens.. but like many... won't do a thing to stop it from happening. Sounds like the fall of Rome to me, all over again!
Linda | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 11:05:16 AM | And as for them doing menial labor jobs My brother in-law lost his job when Duke Energy took over Cincinnati Gas & Electric Co. The new company moved on to the power plant property trailers and brought in Mexican workers to run it. Thats the low paying jobs the they are taking he made six figures.  | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 11:33:56 AM | | Wow, judging from all these fear mongering and racist comments on this forum, I am super thankful that being an educated, tax-paying, non-white woman, I'm a CANADIAN citizen, and not living in the U.S., lol. Land of the free? Not sure who anyone is fooling here.. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 11:49:46 AM | Don't know how to tell you this.. They do head up north and often do the same menial jobs here that they do in the US. In Canada, to be a "legal" immigrant you need money, and many people come here without it, illegally. The odd thing is that some recent studies cite that perhaps many of the social costs that industrialized countries are paying for, come not from "those f**king immigrants", but from those citizens who have been here for very much longer..
I grew up in Canada even though my ancestry is elsewhere. In the end, however, it pretty much goes without saying that neither Canada nor the US would be the countries they are today without immigrants (for good or for bad). Please remember that you yourself are not "native" in your country in the sense that your family or bloodline has had roots here for as long as real Native Americans and Native Canadians have (at least in Canada we call them First Nations, for example, and not "Indians" - completely ignorant I believe, considering India is a different culture with different people, customs, and history).
I have friends of all colours and backgrounds. They work, and they work hard, contribute to good causes, not to mention pay taxes and health care costs! I just really can't believe some of the ignorance that's out there, since of course I don't spend my time with people like that. It's time to wake up and smell reality people, immigrants have helped to build this country (at least my country)! | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:19:13 PM | thanks indrinita and ebit 36. i was beginning to think i had stumbled into a skinhead camp by accident. and indinita, i can assure you that not everyone in the usa thinks like this and there are canadians who do think like this, having experienced some serious racism in response to another canadian post. i think that some people are just plain ignorant and others, who have not been successful in their own lives or who have even been really "screwed" by society, like to project/blame their failures and inadequacies onto someone who has even less.
when a low income, uneducated group is ostracized rather than embraced, of course they try to grin and bear it, wave a flag, join a gang, whatever. again, look at the orignal mafia and murder incorporated gangs, the irish dock workers who were originally ostracized (only to one day have one of them become president). even amongst the jews (my religious/ethnic birth heritage), the germans looked down upon the russians who looked down upon the polish, etc. etc. but, then the garment industry fires started and all the women who worked their fingers to the bone in terrible factories were burned to death. i am told that's when many of the "elite" woke up and started to develop proper employment practices. but, unfortunatley what you have here, is not an elite reaction but the reaction from those who feel put upon.
the fact that i pay taxes for their stuff, be it alcohol or tobacco related or that my insurance rates go up due to someone elses flood or fire doesn't enter into their paradigm. they stick to mine and yours, ours and theirs. these people will not be faring well in our new global economy. too busy sobbing about what they had or what they think that they are "entitled" to have.
i don't have a problem with enforcing laws and if i don't like the laws i work hard to change them. but the usa is not enforcing immigration laws because the "aliens" make substantial contributions to this economy, working their fingers to the bone, and this contribution of near slave labor far exceeds whatever social costs are incurred. the problem is that the costs are not uniformly spread as they should be and this is just another example of why a national health insurance progam is needed as well as an even playing field for everyone getting an education (including born and raised!).
furthermore to inflict racial slurs against another's culture and music when there are far more legal immigrants just makes the person who inflicts them look really, really bad. what comes around, goes around. and yes, they too are entitled to social benefits, no one is arguing that they aren't. but because they aren't getting what they should be entitled to get, they are scapegoating another low income group because they feel powerless. only by embracing other cultures in this new economy and banding together for what is right and decent, will you become empowered. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/3/2006 11:07:37 PM | I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, but I am not a racist or skinhead, and if you're implying I am, I am deepy offended by that. I support legal immigration to the U.S. of ALL races(in sane numbers, no higher than we currently are letting in). People who are skinhead usually want ALL immigration stopped, except for whites. Racists want ALL immigration stopped except those of whatever race they happen to be.
I think you are wrong about why President Bush(and many presidents before him) is not enforcing immigration laws here in the U.S. There are two main reasons. One is he is in the pockets of big business who want him to be as weak on illegal immigration as possible so they can continue to get the cheapest labor possible, since they don't want to pay legal workers a fair wage or give them benefits like health insurance if they don't have to. Two he's afraid of angering hispanics and making more of them turn democrat, just as democrats would be afraid of the same thing if they were to try enforcing the law too much. Something they don't acknowledge though is many legal hispanics are against illegal immigration. Check out this link
http://dontspeakforme.org/
If both democrats and republicans agreed to solve this problem, it could be solved easily.
You say the "aliens" make substantial contributions to this economy, and this contribution of near slave labor far exceeds whatever social costs are incurred.
Studies show Illegal immigrants incur a net loss on the economy, not a huge net gain as you'd have us believe. Read on.
“Dr. Donald Huddle, a Rice University economics professor, published a systematic analysis of those costs as of 1996. The study also estimated the tax payments of those same aliens. At that time, the illegal alien population was estimated to be about five million persons. The estimated fiscal cost of those illegal aliens to the federal, state and local governments was about $33 billion. This impact was partially offset by an estimated $12.6 billion in taxes paid to the federal, state and local governments, resulting in a net cost to the American taxpayer of about $20 billion every year. This estimate did not include indirect costs that result from unemployment payments to Americans who lost their jobs to illegal aliens willing to work for lower wages. Nor did it include lost tax collections from those American workers who became unemployed. The study estimated those indirect costs from illegal immigration at an additional $4.3 billion annually.” The report is provided here:
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersf134
Also check here:
http://www.immigrationcounters.com/ | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/4/2006 11:49:44 AM |
Wow, judging from all these fear mongering and racist comments on this forum, I am super thankful that being an educated, tax-paying, non-white woman, I'm a CANADIAN citizen, and not living in the U.S., lol. Land of the free? Not sure who anyone is fooling here.. I believe Canadian immigration laws are much more restrictive than those of the US... I honestly don't think people have an issue with immigrants, rather it's illegal aliens, and until people recognize there is a vast difference between the two the confusion will continue.
As for losing jobs to immigrants, it would be economically irresponsible to pay 6 figures for labor than can be purchased for a small fraction of the cost. Most businesses are for profit and not in business for humanitarian purposes, so you can understand that changing out the "old guard" so to speak can literally turn a failing company around. I think NAFTA did a lot to damage lower cost jobs than "in country" buy outs. Low skill factory jobs paying $7-$9 per hour packed up literally overnight and moved to Mexico where labor is merely a fraction of that.... What you're referring to, although lessened, at least left the wages and tax base at the same location, many communities lost their major industry AND all the economic benefits attached... | |
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