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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/6/2007 9:04:06 PM | | thats pretty funny here they are here illegally,and were not suppose to do something about it.I don't mind people trying to better themselves by moving here,but atleast they ought to have enough respect for th country,to do it legally | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/6/2007 9:16:08 PM | Who ever said they had respect for us or our Country? Actually they feel an entitlement to take back what they feel was taken from them in the Mexican American War.
People need to educate themselves as to what is actually happening here. Start going to the web sites many have shared on the forum threads.....Become Informed.... | |
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ricnwo
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Joined: 11/4/2006
Msg: 703 | |
| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/6/2007 11:30:53 PM | #1 ALL YOU WHITES NEED TO GO BACK TO ENGLAND YOUR FORGETTING THEM WETBACK MEXICANS ECT YOU CALLED ILLEGAL ARE NATIVES TO THESE LANDS THE AZTECS AND THE MAYANS DIDENT ASKED TO BE MURDER RAPED AND KILLED BY THE SPAIANRDS WHO INVITED YOU WHITES TO COME THE VERY FRIST WELFARE WAS US NATIVES FEEDING YOU STUPID WHITES !!!THAT YOU CALLED THANKSGIVEING SURE SENT THEM ALL BACK THEN WHOS GOING TO CUT YOUR YARDS ,WASH THE DISHES AT DENNYS.BE MAIDS OR HOUSE KEEPERS,PICK THE CROPS ,YOU THINK A CRACKER HONKEY IS GOING TO GO WORK at dennys washing dishes HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I THINK NOT SO IF THEY GO ,THEN YOU ALL NEED TO GO BACK TO EURO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  | |
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ricnwo
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Joined: 11/4/2006
Msg: 704 | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/6/2007 11:45:47 PM | Pay attention folks, I'll say this only once.
The Constitution of the United States of America is the SUPREME law of the land. That is, it dictates how laws will be made and enforced.
It requires that all laws be aligned with the rules set forth within the Constitution. It IS the plan for freedom.
The problem with stupid laws and witch hunts is not that they inconvenience those who break the laws, it is that they are bad law and they have a very negative effect on legal citizens and THEIR rights, as guaranteed by the Constitution.
If I lived in that Pennsylvania town, in an apartment, and someone told me that I had to register at city hall, I'd show them my DD214, and tell them where to stick their unconstitutional laws.
I EXPECT every red-blooded American to do the same, and to DEMAND that their government enforces the laws that are already on the books.
Do you know that there is an existing visiting workers program in place, for more than twenty years? I have heard farmers in Utah who say they use it.
Do you know that your government wants these low-wage workers, who work for less than they should have to, if they were citizens and could organize, because they are so cheap?
The same government that allows factories to close here, and relocate in China?
Pay attention. Your country and your freedom are slipping away because you let yourselves be bamboozled by rich politicians and morons who think that the ends can justify the means.
Thank God for the ACLU. Without them, the Constitution would be gone completely, and not even honored in name only.
Wake up. Where are all the American Samurai?
Where are the real cowboys?
Where are the Indians? They had huevos.
(Hey! Do you think it's the sun in Phoenix that causes the problems?)
Oh, Sorry Cat Lady. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/7/2007 12:59:54 AM | | I have no problem carrying a national identification card......I do already....my SS number card. I support a national photo identification card that cant be duplicated or copies made of. Wouldn't mind if it had my finger print on it either.... | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/7/2007 1:32:59 AM | I don't think the ACLU is much appreciated in Hazelton(and many other areas of the country). The ACLU with help from groups like the National Council of La Raza, MALDEF, PRLDEF, and LULAC and other similar groups are trying to strike down almost any city or state laws which would keep illegal aliens out and make the ones that are there leave on their own. Most of these groups recieve large donations from American corporations, so in a way, these corporations(Ford Foundation and Ford Motor company are some of the biggest donors numbering in millions of dollars)are helping to have laws against illegal immigration overturned around the country.
The ACLU and PRLDEF is suing Hazelton because of laws the mayor put in place. The people of Hazelton overwhelmingly re-elected him, and he won the nomination from both republicans and democrats, so he did not even have a challenger in his re-election. How often does that happen?? The mayor of Hazelton must be doing something right or he would not have such massive support from the citizens there.
I think the citizens of Hazelton were fed up with Bush and previous presidents for not enforcing laws against illegal immigration, and the citizens are definitely taking the side of the mayor and not the side of the ACLU and PRLDEF. If presidents won't enforce laws against illegal immigration, then cities and states have no choice but to pass laws to protect themselves from being overrun by illegal aliens.
Georgia, Oklahoma, Arizona and other states and cities are passing laws to keep illegal aliens out and since we have not had a president in decades who's fully enforced laws against illegal immigration, I say good for them and do not blame them.
In fact, there are people and organizations now calling for Bush to be investigated and possibly impeached because of his refusal to enforce laws against illegal immigration. Also, what's the point of passing any new laws in congress if Bush and future presidents refuse to properly enforce them? | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/7/2007 1:39:32 AM |
Wake up. Where are all the American Samurai?
Where are the real cowboys?
Where are the Indians? They had huevos.
Where have you been? We have them!
Viva la Migra and Minutemen! We also have the Apache, Oglala Sioux, Navajo, Lakota, Kickapoo, Chickasaw, Pima and Tohono O'odham "Shadow Wolves" , all Native American Agents who are using their ancestral skills in securing our borders.
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." --John F. Kennedy | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/7/2007 9:56:43 AM | Write your represenatatives to get a similar bill passed in your state.
Oklahoma no longer OK for illegal aliens
Oklahoma's Governor Brad Henry has signed a sweeping immigration reform bill, House Bill 1804, that its sponsor believes will go a long way in dealing with the illegal alien problem in the state.
House Bill 1804 was passed by overwhelming majorities in both the House and Senate of the Oklahoma Legislature. The measure's sponsor, State Representative Randy Terrill, says the bill has four main topical areas: it deals with identity theft; it terminates public assistance benefits to illegals; it empowers state and local police to enforce federal immigration laws; and it punishes employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.
Oklahoma is no longer "O.K." for illegal aliens, Terrill observes. "When you put everything together in context," he contends, "the bottom line is illegal aliens will not come here if there are no jobs waiting for them, they will not stay here if there is no government subsidy, and they certainly won't stay here if they know that if they ever encounter our state and local law enforcement officers, they will be physically detained until they're deported. And that's exactly what House Bill 1804 does."
The Oklahoma legislator is pleased the bill he sponsored into law was signed by Governor Henry and believes it will go a long way to curb the illegal immigration problem in the state. "I would remind people that states are separate sovereigns in our federal system," Terrill points out. "Anyone who doesn't understand that needs to go back and take an American federal government class in college," he says.
As a result of that sovereignty, the Oklahoma lawmaker insists, "we have as much right - in fact, I would argue, a responsibility - to protect our taxpayers against that sort of egregious waste, fraud and abuse as the federal government should have a responsibility to protect that international border, but doesn't do it."
Terrill says as long as the federal government refuses to do its job of protecting the international borders of the United States, states like Oklahoma must take action to deal with the problem that is costing taxpayers in the state $200 million a year in public benefits, law enforcement costs, and other resources. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/7/2007 12:00:00 PM | well whispers, we agree on one thing. bush underlying agenda. however, still waiting for ms gibson's opinion re bush's agenda and her response to the reference she gave re mexicans against amnesty. again, only three testimonials and none from mexicans.
ricnwo, CHILL. many "whites" are for amnesty. many indigenous/native americans are not for amnesty fighting for the same small piece of pie just like the "whites',. although, many like yourself are for amnesty (i assume or is it you are just annoyed at whites?) . so ricnwo, go back to the beginning of this thread and read the native american's response to my questioning why he did not draw the parallels that you did and support amnesty.
also since my kids are a mix of african american, peruvian (indigenous and spanish) and a bit of british-- i want to explain to you about "white". white people are a mix of many ethnicities--many of whom argued and many who still argue amongst themselves (depending upon where you live). some even argue with humor. when i grew up in brooklyn, there were different churches for irish and italian and way back some people called italians and russians (i'm russian descent) not white. there were many differences between religions and i was called a dirty jew and told i killed jesus....many native american tribes fight with each other politically and even back then some sided with the "whites" against other tribes. my grandparents did not come from england and my grandfather escaped siberia prison camps for being jewish.
so my point is that it's not that simple. my other point is that while all the energy on this thread is being tossed about amongst the "little people", the big boys, both usa and mexico and all over the world, are in cohoots having one big economic "party". if we fight amonsts ourselves (including mexicans) , they can continue to do what they do. whether it's help mexico onto it's feet or increase or decrease border security, or give amnesty--there is always a good way or win -win to accomplish something moral, assuming one gives a dam-n about peoples other than themselves.
but the fact is that people who are making the current decisions are not moral. so no matter what we each decide individually, the chaos continues and the waves ebb and flow. on a larger scale, a little bit of every group will get screwed and even though a lot of "whites" are in power today, that is slowly going to change. but for the most part, no matter what color, most of us are still just the little people.
ps although mexican is not a race, neither is hispanic. but the usa census tends to track hispanic or latino as "if" it were a race as opposed to a linguistic group and "american indian" as if it were a race. the hispanic versus latino definitions and differences are constantly debated and do not include necessarily indigenous mexicans or south americans, let alone those who were not originally spanish speaking. they used to sample/estimate country of origin and it was fascinating to cull that data and see the different migrations here, but the budget is dwindling (i am told) . they do, however, continue to distinguish white, from african american (confusing africans) and asians and hispanics. some don't like this but from a health care social policy perspective we used the data for good. others no doubt used the data for bad. plus you had to investigate other sources for both illegal asian, as well as illegal latin and south american sub populations. the other category continues to grow. so years ago, i would not have been white, but i am now and my family is mixed so whose data are they really after? | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 1:59:39 AM |
I THINK NOT SO IF THEY GO ,THEN YOU ALL NEED TO GO BACK TO EURO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a little late to go on the warpath over something that happened long before you were born. I am Americam born and have worked for everything I have. I don't break the laws. This country is governed by our laws not Illegals. They want something for nothing and break our laws to get what they want. Good for Oklahoma. I hope the rest of the states do the same and deport all illegals. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 2:41:10 AM | They're called "illegal" immigrants for a reason. With that in mind , where's the problem ? They're not supposed to be in the US , they don't have permission of any kind , and whether they're providing a benefit to the community or acting as pariahs on society as a whole, the simple fact is that since they weren't asked in to the US in the first place , the government has every right to kick them out.
If you burn down a house and aren't caught for ten years does that mean everything is forgiven and no crime was committed ? If you save somebody from a fiery car crash but are wanted on charges of child abuse , is there some morality karma that comes into effect and cancels the two out ? The answer to both questions is no. So if you entered the US illegally while being fully aware of the fact that you could be deported at any time , you should be applying for a green card instead of crossing your fingers. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:42:55 AM | however, still waiting for ms gibson's opinion re bush's agenda and her response to the reference she gave re mexicans against amnesty. again, only three testimonials and none from mexicans.
If someone questioned me about something I posted, I must have missed it. If you'd like an answer, please post the post number(s) that contain that reference the question and I'll be glad to answer. I skimmed back through several pages and didn't see anything.
Edit to add: nevermind, I just found it. Let me check the link and I will reply. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 6:36:49 AM | Whisper,
Thanks for posting the info. about the immigration reform bill Ok. passed. I think t it's a good one. The provision about employers verifying the legal status of their employees is also on of the provisions of the IIRA that Haz., Pa. is trying to pass.
Have you heard anything about the immigration reform bill Ok. passed being challenged by the ACLU or other civil rights groups on the grounds that immigration law enforcement is solely the responsibility of the Federal Government ? That among a slew of other arguments is what the opponents of the IIRA has argued in court in order to stop Haz. from enacting the IIRA.
The IIRA targets only employers and landlords, it requires them to run a check to see if prospective employees and renters are in this country illegally, so it really doesn't try to enforce immigration laws, but yet it looks doubtful that the court will rule in Hazs. favor, so I'm curious how a state can pass illegal immigration law while the ACLU and other groups are claiming the IIRA Haz. is trying to enact goes against the law that says immigration enforcement is the job of the Federal Government. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 6:57:45 AM | You said:
some of my mexican friends tell me that a significant number of many mexican americans were against bush's proposal as well as the euro's. as to the specifics, no one seems to know. i would guess that they live in gang torn areas and are at the point where the evils of the gangs are outweighing their concerns for the decent people who come here to feed their families-- again, with corporate and business approval, despite the illegality!"
To which I replied:
No one seems to know? Or YOU don't know? Aa significant number of LEGAL, law-abiding, immigrant Americans ARE against amnesty for illegal aliens. And instead of guessing as to why, perhaps you should take the time to find out who they are and why they feel as they do.
www.youdon'tspeakforme.org
Like the majority of American citizens, they too are opposed to what was contained in the Senate Bill and they too will fight for effectively secured borders and no amnesty for illegal aliens and their employers.
To which, you responded:
huh?????
the site you referred me to "Ultimately" led to three testimonials against illegal immigration from a person from puerto rico, another from ecuador and another from peru!!! by the way, the copy and paste of your reference above did not work, so i took out the apostrophe. some kernel of mexican ancestry put it together. the original site is filled with advertising and misspellings. are you sure this is where i am going to find all this info on the many mexicans who do not support the bill? i was all set to copy and distribute to mexican friends who were interested in what you were saying, but quite frankly it seems like a cut and paste, minimally regarded website. perhaps i landed on the wrong one?
shall we try again? advise.
As to the reason for my original reply, there is no need to remain uninformed, not know specifics, or to make assumptions. In all of my research, I've yet to come across one single Legal Immigrant, against illegal immigration, who has given the following as a reason, "I would guess that they live in gang torn areas and are at the point where the evils of the gangs are outweighing their concerns for the decent people who come here to feed their families"
I apologize for the incorrect link. It should read:
www.dontspeakforme.org
The website I linked as an example was created by Ret. COLONEL (not kernel) Al Rodriguez. I did not take the time to proofread the site for spelling errors nor did I find a single piece of advertising, which may explain it's simplicity. As described on the site, the group You Don't Speak for Me is a group "of concerned Americans of Hispanic/Latino heritage, some first or second generation, others recent legal immigrants, who believe illegal immigration harms America and a guest worker amnesty will do the same".... it is not limited to Mexican immigrants, therefore you will not find information that pertains only to Mexican immigrants.
Yes, you and your friends are correct, there are a many legal immigrants who are against illegal immigration and wish to see our borders effectively secured. YDSFM is only one example. If you (and your friends) are disatisfied with the group based on their website and limited number of testimonials, I would suggest doing a search for Hispanics and Latinos against illegal immigration. Within those links, you will also find voting statistics for Hispanic/Latino immigrants on anti-illegal immigration legislation. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 11:29:35 AM | Just FYI. Read Today. Thought POFers would find interesting.
Quote: "IMMIGRANTS MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. "
"the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life"
"This being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. We have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."
"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"
"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"
"Most of us believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."
"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."
"We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others."
"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."
……. Australian Prime Minister John Howard
WOW! I'm glad he didn't mince words. I got your back John.  | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 4:27:41 PM | Sweetie, I've not heard if Oklahoma's immigration reform bill is being challenged by the ACLU....but I would certainly be interested in knowing....guess some googling is in order or finding their state contact person to inquire.
But I don't see how picking up, holding, notifying immigration and DEMANDING THEY BE PICKED UP could be illegal. I do know in the past, here, illegals have been stopped, immigration notified and their response was, let them go, we don't have the man power to come get them. Our local officials elected not to hold them indefinitely because they did not want to incur the cost of incarceration till picked up, is my understanding.
Another interesting news article....
Wichita, KS 7-7-07
His hopes for immigration reform shattered, one of Kansas' highest profile Hispanic activists plans to return to Mexico to join his wife and their daughter,
"I've given up," said Dennis Romero, a CONVICTED HUMAN SMUGGLER and co-chairman of the Peoples Alliance for Latino Advancement in Kansas. "As soon as I am off parole, I am going back to Mexico.
Without amnesty, Romero said he expects raids on illegal immigrants to intensify.
Increased criminal enforcement of immigration laws has reached into the Midwestern states far from border areas. IN recent years, the number of immigration cases prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Kansas has tripled.
But with an estimated 12 million immigrants illegally in the US, federal courts can do little except try to prosecute the most egregious cases such as human smuggling, identity theft, drug smuggling, workplace enforcement and repeat immigration offenders.
Two of 28 prosecutors at the US Attorney's office primarily handle the immigration cases. Immigration cases now account for 15 % of federal prosecutions in Kansas, but since most defendants plead guilty to lesser charges those cases account for just between 5 and 8 percent of his prosecutor hours.
With the collapse of immigration reform, Romero said it is TIME MEXICANS CONCENTRATE ON MAKING MEXICO A LIVABLE COUNTRY..........supporting President Felipe Calderon's social programs and eliminating government corruption.
Wichita born, Romero served nearly two years in prison after being caught in 2005 helping his Mexican wife and other come into this country.....It was his second conviction for human smuggling the first being i 1985. It will be 2009 before his parole ends.
"Be proud to say, "I am a Mexican. I LIVE IN MEXICO...," Romero said | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 5:07:24 PM | LULAC is trying to strike down the Oklahoma law to keep illegal aliens out, and they are getting millions of dollars from big corporations like the ford motor company and other big companies which help LULAC to fight these court cases to prevent states and cities from keeping illegal aliens out. 
Here are some links which give more info on LULAC and the ACLU
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/05/oklahoma_immigration_law_threa.html
http://www.lulac.org/programs/corpall.html
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=17213
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11838
http://www.michnews.com/c/article_01_17_06.shtml | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 6:43:28 PM | Maybe the problem is that immigration is a FEDERAL jurisdiction.
Well-intentioned laws like the one requiring apartment dwellers to register with city hall are unconstitutional.
Cities and counties are going beyond their jurisdictions.
All that is needed is for the government to enforce existing laws.
There already is (and has been for many years) a guest worker law on the books.
I have heard from farmers who use it and like it. They say that their workers like it, too, because they are here legally and don't have to hide or run from La Migra. And they get to go home when they are done working, and come back again when they are needed.
The importers have to pick them up at the border, pay them livable wages, provide adequate shelter, be responsible for them, and return them to the border when they are done.
There's a sheriff in Florida who sends his deputies to construction sites. They don't do anything but park there, and all the illegals run away.
Guess who is complaining? The American contractors who won't pay livable wages to American workers but want the illegals. On the cheap.
If you want to fix the problem, let your representatives and senators know that you want existing law enforced.
whisper
I have no problem carrying a national identification card......I do already....my SS number card.
Sorry, that's NOT an ID card. In fact, it is SUPPOSED to be a secret number between you, your employer, SS administration, and the tax agency.
Nazi Germany here we come, "My papers are in order." | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 7:15:22 PM | I understand where you are coming from, but when was the last time we had a president who fully enforced laws against illegal immigration? Can't think of one? Then now you have to understand why cities and states have to take action because there is no other choice for them because Bush refuses to enforce the laws like so many presidents before him.
How can we force presidents to enforce laws on the books? Most democrats don't want Bush enforcing immigration laws, and some republicans don't either. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/8/2007 8:21:44 PM | aikiman....."Sorry, that's NOT an ID card. In fact, it is SUPPOSED to be a secret number between you, your employer, SS administration, and the tax agency"
That may have been the original intended use, but when was the last time you applied for a loan, a credit card, requested your credit bureau report, went to the doctor, used your health insurance or requested information from your health provider or even tried to open up a savings account or checking account at a bank?......One of the first questions asked is for your SS#
Lots of people think their personal business is private but with open records laws and credit reporting agencies or State and Federal governments.....Our lives are open books, if anyone knows where and how to look, especially with the electronic world we now live in.
I've done genealogy and one would be surprised at the amount of information one can gather on someone else. Ever tried googling your own name, your email addresses, your profile names from even dating sites........SHOCK SHOCK.... 
Canada has a national ID card, with their picture......it's their health card entitlement and its also can be used to verify their identity and citizenship for most other ID requirements. They can use it in place of a passport to enter back into their country.
One kids themselves if they think Big Brother doesn't know or can't find out anything they wish to know.....if they want the information. And anyone else can pretty much find out anything they want to know about us if they also want that information.
So lets just put it all up front and out in the open and stop the illegals from having a place to hide and misrepresent themselves as being here legally. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witch hunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/9/2007 12:51:18 PM | Tulsa's illegal immigration wreck
For reader, accident with apparent illegal alien crystallized city's changes
By Kari Huus
Reporter
MSNBC
Updated: 1:09 p.m. CT July 9, 2007
In our first Gut Check America vote, thousands of readers around the country rated illegal immigration as the issue of most concern for them. Among them was Gary Rutledge, a Tulsa, Okla., college professor who wrote about being involved in a traffic accident with an apparent illegal immigrant. Here is our report on what we found when we traveled to Tulsa to follow up on his story:
TULSA, Okla. - “Our sovereignty is under direct attack,” warns a commanding voice emanating from a pool of light in the corner of an otherwise dark airplane hangar. Dan Howard, an airplane salesman by day, is in the middle of his weekly two-hour radio show titled Outraged Patriots, a nighttime broadcast devoted entirely to the topic of illegal immigration.
Howard, who charges that the U.S. government is failing in its duty to protect the country from a “silent invasion” by illegal immigrants, taps into a deep vein of anger and unease in this conservative south central city, where many longtime residents feel besieged by a recent wave of mostly Hispanic newcomers.
That rising tide of resentment is palpable in the city’s Latino community.
At Plaza Santa Cecilia, a mall filled with Latino shops in East Tulsa, business is down as much as 40 percent, vendors say.
“It’s very quiet,” said Edith, a 17-year-old shopkeeper who didn’t want to give her last name. “Everyone is staying home because of this immigration stuff.”
The tensions of Tulsa mirror those in many other U.S. cities that have experienced sharp increases in Hispanic immigration in recent years. But other factors are at work here as well.
City on the leading edge
Tulsa is on the leading edge of local and state efforts to crack down on illegal immigration following passage by the Oklahoma Legislature of what is arguably the toughest anti-illegal immigration measure in the nation. The Tulsa City Council also embraced the get-tough approach by adopting a resolution calling on police officers to check the immigration status of “all suspected illegal aliens.”
Those actions have sparked a fierce political battle, spread fear among Hispanics — both legal residents and those in the country illegally — and triggered an angry public face-off between demonstrators on either side of the great divide.
Among the longtime residents shaken by the changes engulfing his city is Gary Rutledge, an MSNBC.com reader who said the demographic shift took his family and friends by surprise.
“It’s happened so quickly and our neighborhoods have changed so rapidly,” said Rutledge, a political science professor at nearby Rogers State University.
In East Tulsa, just across the main thoroughfare from his comfortable brick home, the broad avenues are now peppered with signs in Spanish and malls catering to Latino shoppers — offering everything from soccer wear and piñatas to check cashing services and Latin pop music.
“That whole part of the city has become a miniature Juarez or Tijuana or whatever you want to call it,” said Rutledge.
Like many longtime residents, Rutledge is quick to say that he is not opposed to immigration by legal means. But he says he objects to being unwillingly taken over by another culture as the result of unchecked illegal immigration.
“I’m very concerned that this last wave (of immigrants) has no interest in becoming Americanized,” he said.
Fallout from federal inaction
It was Rutledge’s story of a car crash involving an apparent illegal immigrant that led MSNBC.com to Tulsa. But when we arrived we encountered a bigger pileup: the chaotic fallout of a federal framework that neither prevents illegal immigrants from entering the U.S. to work nor provides a way for them to gain legal status.
That Catch -22 has forced local jurisdictions like Tulsa to seek their own solutions to the explosive and complex issue.
“Increasingly, because there’s no consistent federal law, states and cities are cobbling together immigration laws on their own,” says Sheryl Lovelady, assistant to Tulsa Mayor Kathy Taylor. In Tulsa, Lovelady said, such laws “have caused a lot of confusion, inconsistency and fear, mainly in the Hispanic community.”
Tulsa, a city built on oil some 500 miles from the Mexican border, has a population of just over 380,000, including about 40,000 Latino or Hispanic residents, according to 2005 Census estimates. The pace of Hispanic immigration has been quickening, and local newspapers and politicians believe the number is now closer to 50,000.
For Rutledge, a car accident personalized the issue. He and his wife were waiting in their pickup at a traffic light one evening when they were hit from behind by a vehicle traveling about 30 miles an hour. They were not badly hurt, only stunned.
More shocking, though, was what they heard from the police officer who responded to the accident: The other driver, a young Hispanic man, did not speak English, did not have a driver’s license or insurance. The officer suspected the man was an illegal immigrant, Rutledge said, but he did not check his immigration status because such inquiries weren’t allowed in misdemeanor cases.
Before taking the other driver to jail, Rutledge said, the officer told him he should just go home and forget about it.
‘There's not much to be done’
“He said, ‘We do a lot of this kind of thing and we can tell you that there's not much to be done about it,’” Rutledge recalled.
It’s not clear what happened to the suspect after that. Tulsa police were not able to locate an accident report on the incident.
But officers said that the maximum penalty the man could have faced for driving without a license, a misdemeanor, would be 30 days in jail. Driving without insurance is only a ticketable offense.
Rutledge said he was floored by the experience. Not only would his own insurance company have to absorb the cost for repairing his truck, but the other driver was soon going to be back on the streets.
“It was … a feeling of helplessness,” he said. “There's no recourse, there's nothing to do.”
Rutledge began comparing notes with friends and family and found that many had a similar story with a similar outcome. That got him thinking about the bigger picture.
“I think that when someone comes in this country illegally, it starts a tradition or culture,” he said. “You come in illegally; everything you do from that point on is illegal. And so it's almost impossible to get a driver’s license or insurance so you just start breaking one law after another. I think it’s seductive. I think after a while ... you don't pay too much attention to rule of law that this country was established on.”
Making way for newcomers
While Rutledge’s eye-opening experience occurred behind the wheel, the immigration surge has had an even more striking impact on the Tulsa school system. With many of the immigrant workers in their child-bearing years, the population of Hispanic kids in the school is growing 3 percent a year and will constitute 25 percent of the student body by 2020, the district projects.
The city started its first programs to teach non-English speakers just five years ago, and now has 6,000 students in remedial English language classes, said Nilda Reyes, director of equity and diversity for Tulsa schools.
The sole mission of Newcomer International School, which opened in 2004, is to help its students — about 250 at any given time — become proficient in English so they can make a transition to mainstream classes. The school district also is making plans to expand remedial English teaching in higher grades, and is offering Spanish courses to teachers and looking to hire additional bilingual staff.
As in other communities, Tulsa’s medical system has taken a hit, too. Hospitals have scrambled to find enough interpreters to handle the crush of non-English speakers descending on emergency rooms, bringing in children and housekeepers in some cases, said Tulsa World immigration reporter Leigh Bell.
One program run by Catholic Charities offers prenatal care to women without medical insurance or access to Medicare — about 500 at any given time — the vast majority of them illegal immigrants from Mexico, said Tim Sullivan, executive director of the nonprofit agency. The early care helps avert later medical problems that put even more pressure on emergency rooms and other medical facilities.
While these pressures are not unique to Tulsa, the response to them is.
Tough new rules target illegals
Local and state governments here have crafted rules to curb illegal immigration that are arguably the toughest in the nation.
In May, Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry signed into law HB 1804, also known as the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007. The law, which is scheduled to take effect on Nov. 1, makes it a felony to “knowingly transport, move … conceal, shelter or harbor” an illegal immigrant.
The law, which proclaims that “the State of Oklahoma finds that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this state,” requires companies that do contract work for the state to conduct stringent background checks to avoid hiring illegal immigrants. Other companies would open themselves to discrimination suits if they hired illegal workers over legal residents.
It also includes tough language requiring government agencies to ensure they are not providing services such as food stamps to those illegally in the country, though those services are already theoretically denied under federal law.
It is unclear how 1804 will be enforced — whether, for instance, nonprofit groups or individuals assisting illegal aliens could be sanctioned for “sheltering or harboring” them.
In the end, the bill might not pack much punch, according to David Blatt, policy director for Tulsa's Community Action Project, who said many of the provisions restate existing federal statutes or may be pre-empted by federal law.
"I liken it to a fiercely growling dog — one that is sending out a purposeful message that illegal immigrants are not welcome in Oklahoma," said Blatt. "... I think the bill will have minimal bite, but that is not to minimize the impact loud growling has on people."
Meantime, activists in the Hispanic community say they plan to mount a legal challenge to 1804 and the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma also is studying the bill to see if it passes constitutional muster.
Whose job is it?
In Tulsa, the battle has focused on the degree to which local law enforcement should be involved in checking immigration status, normally the province of federal immigration agents.
With the strong backing of conservative U.S. Rep. John Sullivan, a Republican who represents the congressional district that includes Tulsa, the Sheriff’s Department in surrounding Tulsa County is seeking training that would essentially deputize its officers to enforce immigration law. Under section 287 (g) of federal immigration law, the Department of Homeland Security can enter into compacts with state and local law enforcement agencies to create a “force multiplier” for the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) service, especially where federal resources are thin in the interior of the country.
Sullivan, among the Republicans strongly opposed to President Bush’s immigration reform bill as too lenient, also was behind the city’s move to crack down on illegal immigrants.
At his urging, Tulsa’s City Council passed a resolution in May that requires police officers to determine immigration status of “all suspected illegal aliens'' encountered in the course of their regular duties — a significant hardening of the current policy under which only those arrested on felony charges are checked.
The police chief is opposed to the measure, as is Tulsa’s Democratic Mayor Kathy Taylor, who is engaged in a bitter political battle with Sullivan.
Sullivan charges that Tulsa has become a “sanctuary city” for illegal immigrants under Taylor’s watch because they are usually not reported to the federal immigration officials when they commit minor crimes.
He also argues that by getting police involved in reporting immigration violations, the city will be able to demonstrate the need for an ICE office in Tulsa.
Bill's aim: Create fear in criminals, not roofers
“I want to create fear in rapists, drunk drivers, drug dealers and people who conceal weapons,” Sullivan told MSNBC.com. “It doesn’t mean getting the framer down from a roof where he’s working and arresting him."
Taylor argues that the congressman’s approach will cause panic among Hispanics and open the door for racial profiling. She also maintains that public safety will suffer if the people in the community don’t report crimes because they are fearful of immigration consequences.
Among those who share her concern is Mark Wollmershauser, a Tulsa police officer who has been on the beat for 30 years.
He said he could easily envision a scenario in which the teen daughter of an illegal immigrant is raped, but the family is afraid to report it, leaving the perpetrator on the street.
“They will not call us,” said Wollmershauser. “It will drive a stake through the community in terms of crime prevention.”
Taylor has refused to sign the council’s resolution and instead issued a “policy clarification” stating that police need only ask about immigration status for felony cases or misdemeanors that result in a trip to jail.
Emergency mode
Though it remains to be seen how these laws will be enforced if they survive expected court challenges, they already have stirred visible anxiety in Tulsa’s Hispanic community.
If the laws are enforced, “It will take us back to front-counterism, vigilantism and just overloading our (legal) system,” predicted Sebastian Lantos, a legal immigrant from Argentina who is spokesman for the Coalition of Hispanic Organizations.
Marcela Frescott, program coordinator of Hispanic services at Catholic Charities in Tulsa, said families with both legal and illegal immigrants are worried about getting split up, referring to parents who are in the U.S. illegally but have children who were born here and therefore are legal citizens.
“We had one person who … has four children born here in the U.S., and now they’re afraid to register the kids in school come August because they’re afraid that at that time they might (be) arrested” and deported, she said.
Howard, the radio show host who also founded an anti-illegal immigration group called Outraged Patriots, is not swayed by such pleas.
“These parents… have ultimate responsibility for their kids,” he said. “I have empathy for them … but I cannot give a waiver on the U.S. Constitution to make way for people who cause their own problem” by coming illegally.
He advocates an immediate moratorium on immigration, a clamp down on the border and tough rules that hold employers responsible for checking immigration status.
And he wants Washington to send a message to others contemplating sneaking across the border: “I want to see the administration send … a huge corps to deport tens if not hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens.”
If something is not done, he said darkly, “A lot of people believe there is civil war on the horizon.”
For the moment, Howard is celebrating the defeat of the federal immigration reform bill, which he opposed for offering a legal path to millions of people who entered the U.S. illegally. But he views its defeat in the Senate as merely a temporary success.
“You have got to stay vocal,” Howard told his listeners on a recent Monday night broadcast before going to a commercial break. “This issue is not over.”
Damage control
Hispanic leaders in Tulsa agree. They called an emergency meeting in June to work on ways of countering what they see as rising anti-immigrant sentiment and measures that they see as institutionalizing racism.
Among them is an information campaign to inform Hispanics of their rights if they are pulled over. Through a more ambitious effort called “Alto 1804” (“Stop 1804”), they are pooling legal and political capital to challenge the state law.
With emotions running so high, some residents and officials agree with Howard that violence is a real possibility.
Already, when some 1,500 mostly Hispanic demonstrators marched in East Tulsa on May 5 to protest HB 1804, they encountered an unexpected counterdemonstration, including members of Outraged Patriots and the Tulsa Minuteman Project, one of four organizations in Oklahoma listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as “nativist extremist" organizations that target immigrants with their anger, not just immigration policy.
Police were watching the march and counterdemonstration and managed to keep the two sides apart. Only epithets and few eggs were hurled.
“We were able to get it worked out,” said Tulsa Police Capt. Steve Odom, who witnessed the confrontation. “But I do worry about the rhetoric because there’s a lot of information on both sides that’s misunderstood.”
Rutledge, the college professor, is among those who fear that the situation will get worse if nothing is done.
“It’s very serious,” he said. “I don’t know if we’re going to have a revolution. I don’t think America’s going to pick up guns and start marching, but it could be something similar to the breakdown of law and order we had during desegregation and … back in MLK era.”
© 2007 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19466978/
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 7/9/2007 1:18:26 PM | when my granparents came to this country in the 20's , they came to pa. they were german. they lived in harrisburg which at the time had and still has a large popultion of german, croats, italians etc. they worked, became citizens. mainly because of ellis island. they realised that if they wanted to "fit in" they had to learn english. after all it is america right. they still spoke german among family and friends. but when dealing with the public for services they spoke the best english they could. there was no movement to make their language official. they adapted to fit in . why is it that puerto rican s and mexicans come here. collect welfare. raise households of 5 or more. some are even dealing out of these homes while at least the women are working the men are being gang members etc. i do not speak for all of them but lets face it. they have no respect for this country. they just see a way to beat the system and milk us for what they can. at least the immigrants in the 20's and 30's had pride and wanted to make something of themselves. lancaster, reading, lebanon all have these people living there and the neighborhoods are becoming crime zones. i say if you dont become a citizen and get a job to contribute within say 2 yrs. back ya go.
i am not racist nor do i hate spanish people. i just speak the truth. | |
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