| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/4/2006 3:36:04 PM | Thank you, serenity, for your assurance. I have some very good American friends who I respect a great deal that are originally of European (i.e. white) ancestry who think nothing at all like most of the people who have posted on this forum. So I'm not of the belief that every American that exists is racist and ignorant, although as I mentioned before, this forum seems to represent a certain segment of the population. I guess sometimes, certain forums happen to attract certain types of folks, even if they were originally meant to spark a lively discussion of the issues at hand, and not simply an unanimous agreement of offensive and bigoted viewpoints.
What is incredible to me is that I'm almost absolutely certain most of the people on this forum know no other languages other than English, probably don't have passports, have probably never left North America, and therefore have no concept that in order to support their decadent lifestyles a great number of people on this planet (actually the vast majority) have to starve!
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/4/2006 3:53:59 PM | my ancestry is Irish/Italian. I still have relatives that were processed through Ellis Island - why dont we do that anymore? why can we not demand to know who/what etc is coming ashore? They were inspected for health problems and suitability to work - why are we letting everything and anything in?
What needs to happen -
Seal the Southern AND Northern border - militarize if need be.
We cannot afford to round up the 11-20 million illegals we DO have, however, we can certainly expel them, without trial, if found. Its not fair to the millions who waited or are waiting through the process, be granted a jump ahead in the line.
Cut all aid to Mexico. Right now. If FOx and his corrupt government cannot control Mexico, we should not have to suffer for their legacies of ineptitude.
On an internal level - punish HARSHLY any businesses that use illegal labor.
Punish harshly the gypsy drivers and or human smugglers.
Harsh punishment to any and all 'rights groups' churches and individuals who help illegals hide or find jobs/housing.
Mandate hospital reporting of illegal aliens to the Dept of Homeland Security for pick up and removal.
Finally -
The FBI and Homeland Security should tag and follow any groups espousing illegal immigrant rights or worse, the groups who advocate seperatism and hostility to the US. These groups include MeCha, Aztalan and others.
Its time to lockdown. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/4/2006 4:19:44 PM | I find it to be an appalling affrontery when radical leftists equate regulated immigration to racism and then equivocate various strawman arguments to assert American people born here are merely a product of "european" hegemony and racism. They subsequently demand that American citizens abrogate their civil rights under some phony, presumed obligation to so-called "diversify" our nation by requiring us to change our language, our political and religious freedoms to that of a marxist class-war parameter of "collective guilt". This is preposterous and violates our sovereignity and civil rights. Illegal immigrants and moreso the leftists here who aid them make a mockery of the millions of people from around the world on waiting lists to emmigrate to this country legally by granting "sanctuary policies" and legal/financial assistance to sneering, defiant illegal aliens. Smugglers and drug dealers have flooded America with half of the worlds cocaine and heroin production but whenever we demand the border be closed the marxists cry "racism"!  What egregious hypocrisy. America should declare martial law and indict those who aid this kind of subversion for treason. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 54 | |
| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/4/2006 4:31:05 PM | Cut all aid to Mexico. Right now. If FOx and his corrupt government cannot control Mexico, we should not have to suffer for their legacies of ineptitude.
Again, you forget, OIL. You're hamstrung. The tough talk is ok but that's where
it stops. Fox managed to get Bush to whittle down the immigration bill down
to a lame yet expensive fence. Who do you think runs America? Americans? Canada,
Mexico and Oil producing nations......you only live there, my friend. Bush was
fighting tooth and nail to stop the bill and managed a compromise...why do
you think that is? Why is it, regardless of it's a democrat or republican, the
mexicans are still entering and the drugs are still coming.
It's always been this way and will always be. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/4/2006 7:50:12 PM | I have not read all three pages of these posts~~My 2cents ~~Judge James Munley from the
U.S. Dristrict Court for the Middle Distriict in Penn. has granted a restraing order that runs thru 11-14-2006 to allow the other side to make their argument on Constitutional grounds....
Stay tuned folks..... | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/5/2006 3:40:45 PM | Serenity,
i think that some people are just plain ignorant and others, who have not been successful in their own lives or who have even been really "screwed" by society, like to project/blame their failures and inadequacies onto someone who has even less.
Yes, some are as you are proving with your posts. You have NO idea. You have no clue who the people are who post here. All you know is that they do not support your belief and that is enough to call them "ignorant"?
How about EMBRACING them!
As an aside...I'd like to know how you are working to change things. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/5/2006 10:08:54 PM | justhank and several other posters before him who have questioned my concerns (as well as several others) re racist responses on this post, as well as would like to know my stance and personal actions: i am happy to reply within the rules of posting and will do so in greater detail within a day or two. i have two personal emergencies that i need to deal with at home first. i don't like ignoring people, and will get back to you very quickly with answers to your questions/concerns.
i would in the interim suggest you look at my original post and trace where the dialogue has gone. that is what i will be doing in answer to your questions. also, sorry to disappoint, but although i am a registered democrat, i have voted republican in many local elections (back east, not here in CA so far) and i am personally for "legal" immigration. quite frankly, i think presidential candidates are all bought by the powers greater than themselves when it comes to the larger issues and typically i just hope to get some of the local issues addressed: health care, education, human services, roads and bridges, etc.
i don't like to hear racist slurs against any group and i do assume they come from ignorance. i myself have made racist remarks w/o knowing it, got educated and spread my acquired knowledge to others. i don't necessarily think that someone who agrees with me is not racist, nor is someone who disagrees with me a racist. racist remarks are what they are and know no political demarcation. they also offer no "SOLUTION" to the issues raised.
furthermore i distinguish between prejudice and racism, because i believe that racism is so "institutionalized" amongst all societies that most people are not even aware of it (ignorance). the only reason i am aware of it is because i was raised in an integrated manner, i have suffered as an object of racism (or shall i say ethnic/religious affronts), but managed to educate and not take personally. also, i have foster/adopted multi-ethnic teens and have suffered through even more racism on their behalf and with respect to my own treatment by the "bureaucracy" (see i also don't like bureaucracy!).
more later. in the interim, would appreciate more responses to my orignal post. w/o counting, i have about three i think. i did not have a preconceived answer to my question. i do know that many legal immigrants in that area are suffering because of the illegal immigrants who share ethnicity and who together are the objects of racism. i question the legality and ponder what the supreme court will come up with. i was hoping that some of you knew more than i did about the specifics of the situation. i also project that once "big brother" starts requiring everyone to register their rental agreements with the government, that a precedent is set that will have repercussions for all of you. i would think you "conservatives" would agree, no?
i will be reading the economic study offered. i have read several regional ones that come to different conclusions. but of course, every group has it's study and i try to read as many as i can, so i can gather knowledge and grow. i have assumed that the agricultural economy has taken advantage of the illegal immigrants and via my attendance at a local church know of many who take menial jobs and know personally of none who are being hired by corporations for top dollar. i have also heard many of the stories of individual families suffering, as well as the plight of the indigenous from mexico who flee here due to persecution in that country.
i would like to know more about how "OIL" ties into this and am assuming that our president is wooing the countries with oil, given his economic interests. i would also like to know how drugs tie into this. but i am not sure that we are keeping with this forum topic. so maybe we should also try to come up with a related forum topic and once we get through this one, start that one?
again more targeted responses later to your specific concerns and hopefully some re my original post will be forthcoming from others in the interim. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 1:28:32 AM |
i have assumed that the agricultural economy has taken advantage of the illegal immigrants and via my attendance at a local church know of many who take menial jobs and know personally of none who are being hired by corporations for top dollar.
Big corporations are under cutting us employees by hireing the illegal aliens there was a builder here in the Cincinnati & Northern Kentucky area that got busted by ICE most there construction worker where illegal last time i check construction pays more than menail labor
And as for them doing menial labor jobs My brother in-law lost his job when Duke Energy took over Cincinnati Gas & Electric Co. The new company moved on to the power plant property trailers and brought in Mexican workers to run it. Thats the low paying jobs the they are taking he made six figures.  | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 5:54:35 AM | Perhaps we should run this country like a business. The bottom 50% of taxpayers pay only 5% of the federal taxes. They are not paying their share. We should downsize and expel them. They can go back to whatever country their ancestors came from. Blue States pay a higher percentage of the tax load than Red States, lets give the Blue States a higher percentage of the power. We could take it on a state by state basis. If your state pays in less money than it receives in federal benefits, then adios, you are on your own. Good bye deep south, it was good to know you.
Of course, this is said with tongue planted firmly in cheek but any group can be singled out to be ostracized. Perhaps we should look for reasonable solutions. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 6:00:25 AM | It's much easier to hire illegals to do some jobs, but consider this: when you do it, you're knocking your own wages down. The more workers in the work force, the higher the supply of labor, meaning the higher the competition between workers for money; AND that means there will be less demand for workers because more jobs will get done for less.
Their wages come up. Yours go down in the long run.
If you're a working person: it's cutting your own throat to hire them or patronize businesses who do. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 6:33:49 AM | Tenbears
power plants are big dangerous places. Six figure jobs exist because those plant are hard to run and it takes expertise. I can assure you that while Duke Energy has never been very responsible to the community, they can't run that plant with unskilled labor. If they brought in Mexican labor to run it, then it is skilled labor and they are in big trouble for doing so. You cannot bring in skilled labor from another country if Americans are available to do those jobs and there are plenty of American operators available. It is possible they are flaunting the laws but it is far more likely that they are running it with fewer workers and that your brother in law just got downsized. I am responding to this because to the average person that might read your posting, it sounds like they got guys off the street to run the plants. That can't be done. If your charge is true, the chances of these guys being undocumented is zero.
I could be wrong. Many companies in the oil industry brought in computer programmers from India and Pakistan years ago saying that there were not enough Americans available to do the jobs. They did this of course while cutting short the careers of their existing workers. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 3:51:11 PM | I think that the majority of people see rampant illegal immigration as a huge problem and rightfully so...but the media doesn't reflect the true and sincere concerns of legal citizens ......why?????
when a small town has to exert some sovereignty because the federal government refuses to ...the media demonizes this ..something is wrong here!!!...no???
ps. from talking to a Russian immigrant ...it seems there are millions in former communist countries who want to immigrate legally but can't get permits .....why? | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 3:52:11 PM | I saw a curious thing the other day. A hispanic man parked his nice new truck a few blocks
over and back from the corner where everyone in town knows to go to pick up day workers; generally Hispanics who speak little or no English and want cash for work.
He was on his way to "work" the corner.
My curiosity concerns why he didn't park right there by the other Hispanics standing, waiting for work.
Did he think he wouldn't be picked for work.... nope; who would know that was HIS truck?
Did he think he would be singled out by the other Hispanics as not truely in need of work.... maybe.
Maybe they hit him up for drives, beer money, etc...
Any ideas folks? | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 3:57:45 PM | | It is a tough issue...but one thing to keep in mind is that capitalism is a pyramid. You have on the order of fifteen million illegals working cheap...not gretting benefits ect ect...this is the bottom for your economy and if you removethem then the money available in the middle and the top shrinks...well not the top...the top just cuts it out of the middle...but you get the point...so if you are a porfessional working for Wal-Mart...your bottom line and all of your lifestyle would be effected if suddenly you had no illegals and you found you had to start actually paying people to work for you...it is a tricky problem | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:05:56 PM | Pardon me; but I haven't met ANY Mexican citizens in America who are making LESS than American citizens. I live in North Mexico - Texas. The day workers ask for just as much as anyone else makes.
No, I don't know any fruit pickers personally - but I know American citizens who have picked fruit in their lifetime. A job's a job. No matter what language you speak. And duh... just how many fruit pickers does one country need?... they are coming to the cities folks - looking for YOUR job.
Those of you who think Mexican (Illegal Aliens) are taking the jobs American's don't want must not know any teenagers or retirees in need of a job. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:07:50 PM | ^^^^^^msg 73
I think that economic benefits of illegal immigration are mostly liberal propaganda ...like we are lazy and they do all the hard work we won't do ...I don't buy this crap .
Regardless I think the net effect of illegal immigration is by far economically negative since it creates huge dependance on tax payers ...social strife and basic decline...the big problem is this is not a short term thing.
basically ...cheap labour now equals long term huge losses. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:11:50 PM | I am sure they could create a whole new government agency to deal with this. Gestapo sounds like a good name for it. they can follow suspects (anyone other than WASPs). and demand papers. A presumption of guilt would speed up the process so that if they happened to forget their ID that day they could be instantly deported. Of course they could always just thow out the persons papers and deport them anyway. Maybe get the national guard (if you can spare them from their duties in Iraq) to round up all suspects and load them on trains for mexico. I am sure that the ringwingers can come up with a final solution to this problem.  | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:25:41 PM | big problem is this is not a short term thing.
basically ...cheap labour now equals long term huge losses.
^^^^^^Exactly. and that my friend is why Capitalism will always fail for mankind. The Corporations are entities unto themselves and care not for long term planning or the consequences of maximizing short term profit. You consume as much resource as possible and when the tit has gone dry you just start a different one. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:26:35 PM | I just love all of the studies on cost benefits of illegal aliens. Now just how is that done. We don't know where the hell they are or who the hell they are so how do we know costs and how do we know benefits?
Btw, the guys on the street corners are not all illegal aliens. Some citizens who are out of a job go there for day work too. Not a huge percentage but some. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:32:57 PM |
Hey Tolstoy...
re: msg. # 62
I am curious, if YOU could throw out the democrats and republicans, who would you most like to see installed, or to better ask the question, what type of govt. would you rather see? Please be specific.....
PK
Im somewhat of a Libertarian and moderately conservative. I see the illegal immigration issue as a titanic fraud being abetted by both major parties for their own partisan agenda; welfare roles for the pseudo-democrats and cheap labor for the republicartels. Marxist class war dogma requires so-called "race quotas" to so-called 'diversify" the culture so the democratic party imposes sanctuary policies to nullify immigation statutes and impede extradition. The republicans turn a blind eye to businesses who use illegals for cheap labor to compete with slavestates like china or mexico and to reduce labor union power. That aside however I disdain the fact that all this seemingly takes priority over Americas protection from the horrific cocaine/heroin/speed trade. Granted, I believe (as many here do Ive noticed) the way to minimize drug abuse is to decriminalize and regulate it (another topic, another time) but the fact that the southern border has been deliberately ignored and efforts to control it sabotaged by both parties has been an absolute outrage. Ive known too many who've been destroyed by this and closing the southern border until drug policy was resolved decades ago might have saved many lives. Many of whom were friends of mine. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:51:20 PM | I work with a bunch of illegal immagrants from Mexico. My own belief is they should come to the USA legally. But these guys came up with social security numbers, my boss hires them he dont check to see if they are legal, he pays them a low wage, they dont question him but do anything he asks. They have Social Security, Federal withholding,FICA, L&I with held from their checks.They cannot file for unemployment yet my boss pays it. They cannot get a income tax return yet my boss with holds it. They cant make an L&I claim if their hurt. So where does all this money withheld from their checks go to? Thats why the illegal immagrants are still here, someone is making alot of money with them being here.
It bothers me that they are made out to be criminals. when i think the government collecting their taxes is a bigger criminal. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 4:52:43 PM | | Paul...I have to differ with your logic...the reason most of the taxers are paid by the top is because that is where all the money is. I was using the pyramid in terms of how a corporation works...least paid at the bottom...Cut out people who work for slave wages and guess what...not as much money at the top. Many do profit from illegal workers...others, as has been pointed out, end up paying. It is a tough situation to be sure. But there two distinct societies in the United States...and the top few percent have to behind gates with armed men protecting them at night. Personally I like to think that as a species we can do better than this. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 5:10:17 PM | hmmm......... I am an automotive engineer who lost his job to a "guest worker" from India.
He received his college degree in India for practically nothing $$$, was sponsered by a joint US-Indian company, got his SS# in 2 weeks, and commit to a 3 year contract. I was told that I did a great job. I havn't found a job in good 'ol Mich, land of the unemployed, for about a year, inspite of a great work record. Savings depleated, unemployment gone.....and 2 kids at home. I have to say I feel a bit betrayed by a country which gives tax incentives to companies that hire them, and compromise our way of life. I've paid my way though school and have paid taxes for 27 years, voted...did what was expected of a citizen. This guy hasn't paid a cent in taxes, served in the military (nor can he be drafted), cannot vote. He holds no allegiance to America or its people, nor any consideration for it's future, or the future of its children. He can however, take a job from an American citizen, send his money home, and sleep well at night knowing he can now provide a good life for his family. How affected do you think he was by 9-11??? Maybe on the 4th of July I should hang out the national flag of India, right? I believe in immigration, but on a level playing field and this isn't, and the mass exodus into America isn't because of a great love of our country and its principles, but for the almighty dollar, and thats no reason to give them a blank check. | |
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| Officially sanctioned witchhunt against illegal immigrants?
Posted: 11/6/2006 5:44:08 PM | msg 77....
I think that free enterprise is the only proven successful system ....industry powered by greed and competition gets things done and creates prosperity ...there must be a happy medium.
msg 83 ...I was refused a job becuase I'm a second class citizen in my country.
msg 80 ...it's the middle class that socialism destroys..and creates more poor at the same time....and what's their solution? ...more socialism . | |
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