| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:03:29 PM | Message 24
No. I don't make things up. General McCrystal himself made the statement.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/back-story/2009/sep/28/us-commander-of-afghanistan-only-talked-to-obama-o/ | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:10:36 PM | I'm pretty sure the U.S.'s allies have a problem with having thier soldiers bombed to death by U.S. pilots "playing" at being John Wayne in The Flying Leathernecks as well.
Considering modern technology I think that is non problem. Seriously, do you think we are using all of our military might in the war? We haven't dropped a major bomb on an enemy for 64 years and we have plenty of military options that are not as devastating that we are not using. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:19:05 PM | .
If we gave the Generals free rein they could wipe out the enemy in both countries in a month or less. The problem is not a lack of military power, it's the PC running of the war.
Rummie And Bushco went in on the Cheap. General Shinseki stated the needs when all the crap started... Military Genius Paul Wolfowitz called the General a liar ...
General Shinseki was forced out and dishonored at his retirement party by that Rat Donald Rumsfeld .
The most decorated solider in US history called this game 8 years ago....
He also called Rummie a Rat SOB.....
Like WW 2? Generals free rein? You have no idea what you are talking about......
The Afghans ate the Soviets lunch... Before that The British..... Churchill got an education there ....
As for Obama not talking to his general for months, it has been all over the media. I am sure you can google it and get the info.
That is total BULL ............If you are referring to McChrystal.....There is a chain of command......
Obama already more than doubled the troop size....
How did he do that without talking to the Generals?
In February 2006, U.S. troops in Afghanistan totaled 20,297. By March 2007, troops increased to 24,845.....Understaffed Under funded war, the longest war in US history.....
New York City has over 40,000 Officers............. BushCo force to Kill the Most wanted man in the world....24,845................24,845
Today .....added 13,000.....21,000 extra combat soldiers approved by President Obama last March.
The POTUS Does not answer to some Talk radio show host..... Chicken Hawks like Rush/Hannity/Beck don't Know D!ck about this .....
He also does not answer to a 4 star in the Middle east.....
The Talkers will discuss the history of McChrystal...... He was waist deep in the Tilman Cover up...
His performance as a hunter killer was good .... He has yet to prove him self...
Obama picked him to lead... he replaced the existing command....
No. I don't make things up. General McCrystal himself made the statement.
so what... He has a chain of command...
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:23:57 PM | .
We haven't dropped a major bomb on an enemy for 64 years and we have plenty of military options that are not as devastating that we are not using.
Nukes............... ha ha
You have no idea what you are talking about.... How many suicide Saudi Bombers for any nuke in the M/E?
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:50:21 PM |
Considering modern technology I think that is non problem.
Just off the top of my head...
... I can think of 12 Canadian soldiers who would disagree you on the "non problem" of the modern technology on the f-16 and GBU-12. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:51:11 PM |
Understaffed Under funded war, the longest war in US history.....
I believe you are factually incorrect. The Vietnam war was longer.
We have vast technological edge on our enemy and we are not using it. The Afghanistan govt is corrupt adding to the problem. Sending more men is only a partial solution. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 9:09:02 PM |
... I can think of 12 Canadian soldiers who would disagree you on the "non problem" of the modern technology on the f-16 and GBU-12.
In every war mistakes are made and this one is no exception. Were there any wars in history that were "safe" ? Have you ever supported any war? | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 9:18:17 PM |
In every war mistakes are made and this one is no exception. Were there any wars in history that were "safe" ?
That has absolutely nothing to do with your assertion regarding the "non problem" of modern technology
Have you ever supported any war?
And this is the beginnings of a 'tu quoque' fallacy. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 10:42:24 PM | And this is the beginnings of a 'tu quoque' fallacy.
Which can be used legitimately to consider the credibility of the source.
That has absolutely nothing to do with your assertion regarding the "non problem" of modern technology
Actually technology can operate flawlessly, it's humans who are not perfect. Did technology kill those soldiers or did human error? | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 11:11:31 PM |
Actually technology can operate flawlessly, it's humans who are not perfect. Did technology kill those soldiers or did human error?
Whether the technology is flawed, or the humans operating it are flawed, either way your claim of a non problem is incorrect. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/13/2009 11:42:46 PM | .
..................technology can operate flawlessly.........
........................or it can break.......
...............You cannot build enough Bombs or Bullets to out pace a birth rate..........
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 4:47:07 AM | Which can be used legitimately to consider the credibility of the source.
I guess you don't understand the meaning of the word "fallacy".
I'll help you out, it means "false, untrue, deceptive, inconsistent with fact, not genuine".
Now, perhaps YOU can explain how a fallacy can be "legitimate", considering they have opposite meanings, kind of like saying "round is a description of square" or "clever is the same as 'dense as a brick'".
Actually technology can operate flawlessly, it's humans who are not perfect. Did technology kill those soldiers or did human error?
Ah, so now you are going to try to weasel out of your error...
Don't forget, it was you who said "modern technology" made such incidents a "non problem". By your statement, in the way it was stated, "human error" shouldn't even enter into it. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:20:22 AM | I believe you are factually incorrect. The Vietnam war was longer
We have vast technological edge on our enemy and we are not using it. The Afghanistan govt is corrupt adding to the problem. Sending more men is only a partial solution. .
I would seriously consider examining these statements.Your position is the "generals" should have free rein,bombing them back to the stone age has been tried before Total U.S. bomb tonnage dropped during:
World War II = 2,057,244 tons
Vietnam War = 7,078,032 tons (3-1/2 times WWII
tonnage)
Bomb tonnage dropped during the Vietnam War amounted to
1,000 lbs. for every man, woman and child in Vietnam.
It did not work then and will not work now I don't think winning the hearts and mind's of the afghan people is by bombing them into dust.Seems just a little counter productive.
Just one example is tora bora and all the bunker buster bombs dropped guess what no bin laden.I mean seriously this is like something out of Dr Strangelove or Curtis lemay.
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:58:54 AM | I guess you don't understand the meaning of the word "fallacy".
I'll help you out, it means "false, untrue, deceptive, inconsistent with fact, not genuine".
Now, perhaps YOU can explain how a fallacy can be "legitimate", considering they have opposite meanings, kind of like saying "round is a description of square" or "clever is the same as 'dense as a brick'".
I am referring to legitimate argument. BTW here is a reference for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque refer to "Legitimate Use"
You used the word fallacy to cover the fact that you are a pacifist. Since you are against ALL wars, you cannot pretend that you are only against this one.
As for my use of the term non-problem, perhaps I should have phrased it not as an absolute. It is less of a problem than in previous wars. Soldiers die in wars as the result of friendly fire, that is not a reason not to fight them at all.
As for the previous posters question about bomb tonnage, timing is everything. You must use overwhelming force in a concentrated period of time as in the Gulf war. In order to do that, you need the will to win. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:11:55 AM |
You used the word fallacy to cover the fact that you are a pacifist. Since you are against ALL wars, you cannot pretend that you are only against this one.
All right! The presumption game! Can I play too?
Let's see... your words show that you support all wars, and think that any problem, including who used the last of the milk, should be solved with a good old war with incredibly high numbers of casualties. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:28:29 AM |
You used the word fallacy to cover the fact that you are a pacifist. Since you are against ALL wars, you cannot pretend that you are only against this one.
And this is another fallacy, only this one is a "strawman".
Now, the only way you can establish this is by showing the exact quote where I professed to be a pacifist.
Can you do it? Huh? Can you? Come on, please try... Can you? Please, show us all where this incredible insight comes from.
Can you even show the quote where I said I was opposed to the one we are referring to (Afghanistan)? Can you? Please try...please... we're waiting on pins and needles... | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 9:48:08 AM | Can you even show the quote where I said I was opposed to the one we are referring to (Afghanistan)? Can you? Please try...please... we're waiting on pins and needles...
I am glad you asked that. Earlier I posed the following question.
Were there any wars in history that were "safe" ? Have you ever supported any war?
And you ducked the question and answered in such a way that implied that my asking such a question was illegitimate.
So did you EVER support a war? What were/are they?
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 10:00:10 AM | And you ducked the question and answered in such a way that implied that my asking such a question was illegitimate.
So, can't find a real example of him stating he is a pacifist and against all wars, then? | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 10:13:38 AM |
So, can't find a real example of him stating he is a pacifist and against all wars, then?
His refusal to answer is the best I can do. I asked him again to clarify.
If he is a Canadian, Educator who supports the war in Afghanistan then he is in the minority among his peers.
If he is FOR the war, I'd like to hear his plan for victory. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 10:53:30 AM |
As for the previous posters question about bomb tonnage, timing is everything. You must use overwhelming force in a concentrated period of time as in the Gulf war. In order to do that, you need the will to win.
In the first gulf war saddam had troops in the wide open sitting in trenches in the middle of the desert.Of course military air strikes succeeded.How are you planning to fight an insurgency with overwhelming force when it could be a few insurgents hiding in caves villages,towns etc?Indiscriminate bombing?That is laughable if it wasn't so serious.And for the record I have always thought Afghanistan was the right thing to do.Iraq on the other hand was a monumental mistake! | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 11:12:51 AM |
.How are you planning to fight an insurgency with overwhelming force when it could be a few insurgents hiding in caves villages,towns etc?Indiscriminate bombing?
If they are hiding in caves, bomb the caves. If they are hiding in villages, give the them 48 hours to cough them up or bomb the village. If the people in the village are shielding the terrorists, then they need to be put on notice.
If we cannot fight without our hands tied then the right thing to do is to bring home our troops.
We had to fight the Iraq war because of those ineffective and innumerable UN sanctions.
Threats of action are only effective if they are actually followed up by action. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 11:26:30 AM |
If they are hiding in caves, bomb the caves. If they are hiding in villages, give the them 48 hours to cough them up or bomb the village. If the people in the village are shielding the terrorists, then they need to be put on notice.
So if the bad guys aren't coughed up bomb the village?lovely.
We had to fight the Iraq war because of those ineffective and innumerable UN sanctions.
Threats of action are only effective if they are actually followed up by action
Iraq if you recall was over wmds gee wonder what happened there.Then it was regime change.The bush administration tried to connect in some insane way Iraq with 9 11.
Cheney himself during the first gulf war said invading Iraq proper would be a quagmire! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZM
Revisionist history at it's best.But it has been an interesting discussion to say the least. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 11:41:45 AM | His refusal to answer is the best I can do.
You were being rather presumptous, then.
If they are hiding in villages, give the them 48 hours to cough them up or bomb the village.
Yep, it's that easy. All they have to do is figure out which people are actually terrorists blending in with the community, and then overcome the armed and combat trained fanatics.
We had to fight the Iraq war because of those ineffective and innumerable UN sanctions.
Those sanctions were so ineffective that the things they were trying to get rid of, WMDs, were indeed gotten rid of. | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 12:05:25 PM | .
Massive strikes you claim the solution, carpet bomb.... (nukes) ..
Moves a lot of dirt... Not effective in the DMZ.....
OR
Personnel in the dirt ....Intel.... CCT or JTAC... the magic of your "modern technology"..
Your faith in killing them all didn't work very well for the Soviets....
You think McChrystal is the wrong guy.......
Sanctions didn't work.... Neo Con Revision ..... | |
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| Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 10/14/2009 2:00:22 PM |
Can you even show the quote where I said I was opposed to the one we are referring to (Afghanistan)? Can you? Please try...please... we're waiting on pins and needles... I am glad you asked that. Earlier I posed the following question. Were there any wars in history that were "safe" ? Have you ever supported any war? And you ducked the question and answered in such a way that implied that my asking such a question was illegitimate. So did you EVER support a war? What were/are they?
You still haven't established your claim, rather, you have posed an irrelevant thesis. Does your use of fallacy know no bounds?
And yes, your question is, in fact illegitimate. It is an effort to establish a tu quoque fallacy with no legitimately logical basis (I'll show you how this is so: The question of whether I have ever supported any war is irrelevant because 1) I have made no statement in direct opposition to ALL wars. Logically, it is possible for an individual to support one war and not another. 2) I have made no statement in oppostion to the war in question as a whole. It is logically possible to support a given war, in general, but oppose the specific method by which that war is conducted just as it is possible to oppose torture as an interrogation method without being opposed to interrogation in general).
Ergo, your question is illegitimate as it has NO bearing on the matter at hand. | |
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