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 SoTexMan
Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 101
Verbal AbusersPage 5 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Hey, all:

Wow, lots of very good honest comments and messages. The troll I referred to
put four messages in a row, which is against the rules, and they and the off-topic references to it were all deleted. Hence the gap between 115 and 125. And PrettyPicky, I trust your question about what a troll is has been answered. Please let me know if you still have any questions, or anything else!

Purplemarbles: you asked
Do you think verbal abusers can be rehabilitated (or is divorce always the answer) ? If they can , what criteria should you use to make that judgement-- objectively speaking....


I suppose abusers can be rehabilitated, and if the survivor wishes to do so, it would be a supreme act of love and patience and forgiveness. May I add, a damn saint! If a person wants to do that and maintain their own sense of self, fine--but their own happiness needs to come first. When my practical joke cigar of a marriage blew up on me, we went to couseling for maybe 1 1/2 years which was probably a waste of time and money.

Probably the best thing that can happen is for the abuser to rehab him/herself. Of course, 'rehab' has to have meaning and substance--not merely cosmetic--to be valid. Objectively, if the person abuses again, he/she ain't done. To illustrate, many people know if an alcoholic in AA is only a drink away from going back to Square One. "One Day At a Time" has a lot of validity in many aspects of life.

I personally think you can call abusers a s s holes in a forum like this--we are all just expressing our feeling and hurt. This is different from calling someone an a s s hole to their face--this is what abusers do. I know for example if in a dispute I say this to someone I purportedly care about, I need to stop immediately and catch my breath and settle down.

Brabazom, your list is very helpful--thank you for including it.

It appears to me that anyone's experience with a combination of verbal and physical abuse will be different, depending on their unique circumstance. The degrees of each type and the person's resilience create an infinite range of results.

I would like to say something about firearms and self-defense skills. Firearms are fine, but can be deadly, and you have to be absolutely ready to commit that act. You also have to be able to prove justification for it to authorities. You could go to jail otherwise. Another big problem--you may not always be 'packin' heat'. And most of all, someone could use YOUR firearm on YOU yourself.

On the other hand, self-defense has many unique advantages--it can easily be non-lethal, but highly, highly, HIGHLY effective. You can be less than 5 feet tall and bring down a 7 footer. Put 'em right in the hospital for a very long painful think--fold their knees back the wrong way so far their ancestors will scream. Plus it is great exercise, and great for confidence building. And no one will ever make you kick your own lights out!

You are all very brave for enduring and speaking up about your experience. Thank you!

David


Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!
 purplemarbles
Joined: 10/6/2006
Msg: 102
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/13/2006 8:54:35 PM
SoTexMan :

Thanks for the reply . In reference to the comment about using a lethal weapon against an abuser , I suppose one would have to be ready to go to prison ( at least for manslaughter i.e. 2nd degree murder ) . Verbal abuse is bad but it is not worth taking someone's life over .
Two wrongs don't make a right --- especially committing the ultimate wrong .

It is better to just walk away .

Btw , I am glad people are being honest and we are getting all this out into the open for everyone's benefit . I must confess I didn't know a lot about verbal abuse before .
 nomenome
Joined: 9/7/2006
Msg: 103
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/13/2006 9:27:47 PM
hi purplemarbles - if you mean my prev. post, about getting a gun and taking lessons, i didn't mean for someone to 'go hunting' - i ment that sometimes, an abuser gets very angy when you learn to stand up, or you leave them - it takes away their power. they may come looking to do a person some serious damage, and self preservation is always a good idea. that's all. and again, that's my own personal knowledge - not meaning everyone should carry a gun or just start shootin'. a weapon can be a great equalizer and deterrent - bullies don't like to lose their victims.
 SoTexMan
Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 104
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/13/2006 10:06:15 PM
Hey, all:

Hey, Nomenome: We both mentioned firearms and I was expressing the concern that it may not be the best tactic. Of course, we are also crossing into the grey area between verbal and physical abuse. Someone can be verbally abusive and never become physical--some can become highly physical. If this happens, one needs a means of defending oneself and others--children. Self-defense is a very good way to do so and has many other benefits. That doesn't change the fact that I do agree with what you say.

Anyone who is interested in self-defense can find lots of info--it is really fascinating.

David


Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!
 *Babydoll272*
Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 105
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 3:57:22 AM
Purplemarbles: you asked

Do you think verbal abusers can be rehabilitated (or is divorce always the answer) ? If they can , what criteria should you use to make that judgement-- objectively speaking....



In my case, since our divorce...my ex is now living with another lady. One difference between this lady and myself.... this woman that he is with has been around the block a few times and WON'T take any BS from him. He is meek and submissive with her. It's so unbelievable how different he is to her than he was to me.

I can't understand that...was I that much of a pushover that he thought that I could be the brunt of his misery? "Misery" for whatever reason! I was a very good wife....never argued with him, always tried to be one step ahead of him so he wouldn't get angry. And he could get angry for the least little thing. I made sure the meals were on the table on time, kept our home meticulous, did all the outside and inside work etc...Granted, he was and still is a hard worker being Self Employed. He worked many hours so I didn't mind doing my share and most of his. But a compiment here and there would have been nice.

Now with this girlfriend, he is attentive and treats her totally opposite than he did me. Of course he does know that if he is any different...he will be out on his a$$. But I have to tell you that it bothers me and I often ask myself "why". He still works long hours but she won't make meals. They usually go out for meals and he does complain to me that their house is always a mess. Not my concern...looks good on him.

So maybe I wasn't tough enough to put my foot down for the duration of our marriage and not leave sooner. But I was always afraid that it would turn into physical abuse and I didn't want that. So I didn't make waves.
 purplemarbles
Joined: 10/6/2006
Msg: 106
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 5:02:25 AM
MomsBabydoll :

Do you still love him ? Perhaps it may have been better if you just separated and tod him there would be a divorce if he didn't change ?

It seems that this behavir is learned . It can be unlearned . But it may take time . A child growing up in a verbally abusive home may model his behavior on his parents' . The child will grow up thinking this is normal , socially acceptable behavior . I suspect this happens a lot . Although most of what I have read on verbal abuse is anecdotal and not based on studies e.g. the Evans book .

Unless there is an underlying psychiatric disorder that is fuelling this behavior e.g. Borderline Personality Disorder , there may be a chance to salvage such a marriage if the abuser loves his wife a lot and wants to change a lot . But it will take time .

I don't think this behavior is "hard-wired" into one's DNA or anything . It may be possible to change .

You seem like a nice lady -- it was his loss .

You wouldn't happen to be a cougar would you ? I've heard that that's were they're based ( Toronto area )
 lips of angel
Joined: 6/20/2006
Msg: 107
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 8:00:01 AM
hi....verbal abuse is more thten physical....i had been a relationship for 12 years with the father of my daughter...he play me so good....when i was 19 i met him i was so vulnerable...i had a son where me and the dad spilt up..and i was so young got in tht relationship because its seem so perfect but it was all lies....got pregnant with is daughter he treath me names ...and took all my self esteem away...i tought i was no good for no one....and i was so blind with is manipulation...and lies oh yeah he had cheated so many times...cant even count what a fool i am and feel right now...but stay with him because i tought he would changed always called woman frikken no good at nothing...and there was abuse physically....and got two a point two years ago...tht i kick him out because he was cheating with a 18 years old...imagine 30 years old..but no concience and no remorse....anyways we ahd been in a rollercoaster for 2 years..till found out tht he was back to is old games again...and now he was the one who wanted to be back with me telling me he would changed he would do anything and even do some couselling..but not...tht only last for a weeks not even so..he told me i cant changed for no one and i will always cheated behind you and other girls...and i had consulted a phsychologue and she told me he cant changed even if he would get some help he cant ...you cant changed those man....and tht was a slap in my face...she even told em he was a narcissitic...and a person who only loves himself...so now last saturday he came to my house and he was piss because i was going out with friends nothing wrong there....but he wanted me to saty at home so now for is revenge on me he got into plentyoffish....and tht was a shock of my life...all lies in the profile..he said tht he was honnest ...no tht not true..he will lied to you right in your face ....but you wont no tht..he is a compulsive lyer...and see its very ahrd to get out of tht ...specially with kids involved....if i would go back 12 years of my life right now i would had say no to him....i did not deserve to be treat like tht...i am a human been with emotion and a life...i only have one life and i feel he ahd ruin mine and tht not fair.......so i hope tht ppl who go into a relationship look for the red flag....i did not...was to blind....and now i am the one who have to leave with this horrible pass all of my life
 *Babydoll272*
Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 108
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 10:54:40 AM
To Purplemarbles:

"Do you still love him ? Perhaps it may have been better if you just separated and tod him there would be a divorce if he didn't change ? "


Gosh no...there isn't any love there anymore. I wish him well, I wish him health and happiness but there is no left over feelings for him whatsoever.

I married him when I was 18. He was much older than I, with a marriage, two children and a divorce under his belt. At that point, I was still living at home with my family. He treated me like no other...wined and dined me, lavished me with expensive gifts and I thought that I had hit the jackpot. Even my friends were jealous of how much I was being spoiled by him.

I guess he thought that with my youth and lack of life experience, he had died and went to heaven. He could mold and shape me into what HE wanted.

The good that came out of all of this is that I am a very independent person today and have surpassed my ex tenfold. He is the one that is living in another's home, with no clout as to what happens there. He had to go bankrupt a few years back while my credit is like gold. As the saying goes..."what goes around comes around"... a very true saying indeed.

He has asked me to go back to him even after our divorce but I refused without a minute of hesitation. Even through all the hell he put me through mentally, I think I have come out of that situation with a positive attitude. Although I'm so much wiser than I was, I'm still happy that I haven't lost all of my innocence which keeps me young.

As far as the Cougars go, do you mean the team from California...the California Cougars?

Here in Toronto..(I'm 45 minutes west of Toronto), our teams consist of...Toronto Lynx (Soccer)...Bluejay's (Baseball)...Raptors (Basketball) and Toronto Maple Leafs (Hockey).
 SOBEIT19
Joined: 10/15/2006
Msg: 109
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 3:30:19 PM
I"m glad the troll is gone.. he thought all you had to do was turn to the abuser and tell them you forgive them..... ummmm sure... this seething, angry person is going to stop and realize what they're doing is wrong, because "they've been forgiven"...lud... That move is guaranteed to move the verbal, to the physical..

My one act of defiance almost pushed my abuser over the edge.. on that ride in the country with his pistol between us, sanity must have crept in because I'm still alive today.. I lived to leave, and meet someone wonderful.. Do I forgive my abuser... no, do I forget... no.. but I've had a damned fine life since he's not in my life these many years..
 just-Cal
Joined: 11/10/2006
Msg: 110
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 4:38:07 PM
wow all this talk about abuse and most are about men that abuse women , now don't get me wrong , noone should get away with abusing anyone , but statistics have proven that women mentally abuse their partners more often than men do , men tend to physically abuse more often then women.
I wouldn't have replied to this thread at all but I just yesterday read these statistics ( all be it I didn't note the percentages) and I really beleive that mental abuse is just as damaging to a person as physical abuse is , just because you don't see the scars , doesn't mean there not there
Just putting my 2 cents worth in
 shes_single_again
Joined: 10/15/2006
Msg: 111
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 4:45:31 PM
I was badly verbally abused by my ex, he called me every name in the book for no reason, like I'd just be minding my own business and if I said something to him, he'd say will you shut the f up. Or if I dropped something on the floor he'd call me a stupid f'n c word. I would freak and leave and go to my Mothers, he'd say he was sorry, then I got used to it and stopped leaving, I'd just go in my room, and a few minutes later he'd be like "what's wrong?" I'd say, what's wrong? you just called me ... and he'd say no I didn't. One of the many reasons he's my x

He did not hit me, I wouldn't have put up with that but words can hurt.
 nomenome
Joined: 9/7/2006
Msg: 112
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 6:09:50 PM
just-cal: i don't think anyone is really meaning that it's just men abusing women - we all know that it can and does go the other way as well - we are all saying that abuse, verbally, physically, and yes mentally, by anyone that purports to love you, is wrong in any sense. no man should be in that kind of relationship either.
 just-Cal
Joined: 11/10/2006
Msg: 113
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 7:25:35 PM
nome

I totally agree , I was reading this forum and just wanted to make it clear that it wasn't only men behaving this way, society tells us that women take abuse and men do not , I mean look at all the shelters for battered and abused women there are ,there's none for abused men (not that I personally need this type of help) but I'm sure there are those out there that would appreciate it. more and more often we hear about abusive women in relationships and it's not just emotional or mental ...... u know what , the world has gone nuts. what ever happened to being kind to one another , trying to make each others lives as comfortable as u can, why abuse in the first place , I mean........... this is the woman / man that u've made a commitment to on some level whether u're married or living together , or even dating for that matter. i don't know , it just all doesn't make sence to me
 SoTexMan
Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 114
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 8:45:26 PM
Hey, all:

Hey, Just-Cal: Please read the entire thread and please do not resort to absolutes, such as 'all'. You use that term and refer to statistics in the same paragraph. You should choose one or the other.


Hey, MomsBabyDoll: I would like to ask you about the man you refer to, and the new relationship he is in. Do you think he is actually rehabilitated, or would he revert to his old behavior if the woman he is with was gone? In other words, is his behavior just below the surface, being controlled by that woman? Just a point of curiosity--since I personally think a great deal of behavior is very difficult to change permanently--just as Purple Marbles has pointed out, rotten pathological behavior is learned, sometimes very very thoroughly.

Any thoughts on his 'rehabilitation'?

David


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 SoTexMan
Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 115
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 8:53:30 PM
Hey, all:

Sorry--I don't know how THAT double-up happened. Anyway, there is a lot we can do to heal ourselves, and to grow, so that we change the actions we take in the present from those we might have done in the past. We are a product of our upbringing, but life is--or certainly should be--a process of continuous learning. We often wonder why we do things? 'Cuz dat's wut we learned. Why do we do the same things over and over again? 'Cuz we ain't learned any better.

We all have the power to grow and change. Break the cycle.

Make sense?

David


Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!
 wpg_chick_84
Joined: 1/23/2006
Msg: 116
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 9:43:43 PM
I have only been verbally abused in one relationship after he started smoking pot. I told him to pick me or the pot, since he was a completely different person when high. He picked the pot and after one verbally abusive incident I told him it was over and that I never wanted to hear from him again, regardless of what he did to change. He had his chance and lost it. I was fortunate enough to not let what he said get to me because I knew it wasn't true. I had developed a tough skin by this point

I was however verbally abused by my peers in elementary and junior high school. It rarely ever got physical, but the things they said to me were so awful and hurtful I ended up having to drop out of school for a few months, then transfer to a different school division. At 15 because of what these cruel kids were doing I was at high risk of having a mental breakdown. I went home after school every day and cried almost all night untill I finally fell asleep. I felt ugly and stupid and alone and that no one would ever care for me because I was such a horrid person.

The prase I uttered so ofter 'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me' is only partly true. Words may not hurt your body, they will never leave any physical mark, but what they can do to your spirit can almost be worse.
 mystykchyk
Joined: 4/19/2006
Msg: 117
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 11:05:00 PM
For such a very common and widespread problem, it truly is a shame that there is so much lack of information and awareness about abuse/domestic violence. Incidentally, domestic violence includes not only physical abuse, but also emotional, psychological, sexual, and economic abuse (see link at Department of Justice: http://www.usdoj.gov/ovw/domviolence.htm).

Pink ribbons are virtually everywhere, as are the emails about getting mammograms, charity walks, donation requests, etc. But how many purple ribbon events do we see? Yet, ONE out of every FOUR women will be a victim of domestic violence in her lifetime. Compare that to breast cancer (this statistic can be verified on Natl Coalition Against Domestic Violence at: http://www.ncadv.org/files/DV_Facts.pdf)

Here is some clarification... more importantly, with reliable and verifiable sources:

1) What makes behavior abusive?

"Domestic abuse between spouses or intimate partners is when one person in a marital or intimate relationship tries to control the other person."
(from http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm)

Here is a more detailed explanation of what what verbal/emotional abuse is: (taken from Dr. Irene's site, where it was from ManAlive.org - http://drirene.com/control.htm)

Abuse is always about CONTROL. Whether it is verbal abuse, emotional abuse, or physical abuse, IT IS ABOUT CONTROLLING YOUR PARTNER, subtly or openly. Male role control works by physically, verbally, or emotionally destroying his partner's physical and emotional integrity so that she will be afraid to be herself, will control herself, and therefore be available to be controlled by HIM... CONTROLLING behaviors are used by verbal abusers to gain feelings of power and control whenever the suppressed fear and pain in his own life start to "seep out" - terrified of not being in control, terrified of "feeling," terrified of her leaving.

CONTROLLING BY DIMINISHING YOUR PARTNER:
Belittling
Laughing at or smirking
Offensive jokes
Mimicking your partner
Patronizing
Scornful, disdainful, contemptuous tone of voice
Ignoring, "I'm not listening to you"
Avoiding eye contact, turning away
Expecting partner to talk to you while you're watching TV, reading, game playing
Words like "Sooo" or "So what!" or "That means NOTHING to me" or "Whatever"
Bafflegabbing - talking in ways intended to mislead or baffle your partner
Insulting your partner
Making inappropriate sounds
Making inappropriate facial expressions-rolled eyes, grimaces, deep sighs
Starting a sentence then stating, "Forget it.."
Accusing her of being "controlling", "having to have the last word"

CONTROLLING BY MAKING HER RESPONSIBLE: By telling his partner she is responsible for his behavior, this verbal abuser attempts to avoid all responsibility for his own behavior. In other words, he avoids accountability by BLAMING. Examples include:
I did it because you...
You didn't remind me.
You just don't see what I do.
Just show me how
Set a good example

CONTROLLING WITH BODY LANGUAGE AND GESTURES: The verbal abuser uses body language to control his partner, just as he uses words. The words and gestures often go together. This can be seen as using HIMSELF to control his partner. Following are some hurtful and intimidating ways of controlling that are forms of withholding and abusive anger:

Sulking
Stomping out
Refusing to talk
Walking away
Refusing to give her something
Hitting or kicking something
Refusing to make eye contact
Driving recklessly
Boredom-crossed arms, eyes closed, head down, deep sighs
Withdrawing or withholding affection
Showing disgust-rolled eyes, deep sighs, inappropriate sounds
Strutting and posturing

CONTROLLING HER MATERIAL RESOURCES: The verbal abuser may control one or all of his partner's material resources by WITHHOLDING information as well as by withholding work which he has promised to do, often by "forgetting", "I don't know how", or "I didn't know I had to". Another common practice of the abuser is to withhold needed money, then compound the abuse by forcing her to act on her own, beg, plead, or do without. He then begins blaming his withholding on her acting on her own, begging, pleading, or "trying to be a martyr." In more severe cases, the controlling abuser will keep money from his wife that is necessary for her survival and that of their family (whether it is the promised food budget money or his entire salary). He gives no thought to "spending his own money," or what his control and selfishness is doing to his wife and family who are either deprived of necessities or working desperately to support themselves while HE feels in control and free!

CONTROLLING BY DEFINING HER REALITY: This form of control is very oppressive. When he tells his partner what reality is, he is playing God, he is discounting the partner's experience by defining "THE TRUTH"-which in fact is a LIE. Some examples: That's not what you said or That's not what I said or That's not what you did or That's not what I did or That's not what happened. That's not what you saw. That's not what you felt. That's not why you did it. I know you better than you know yourself!

CONTROLLING BY ASSIGNING STATUS: Putting her down, especially on what she does best.
Putting her up, praising or thanking her for trivial things rather than the big things she does, which demeans her talents, time, and energy, while implying she is best suited to do trivial or demeaning tasks. This category also includes statements such as: That right! You're a woman!! (said with disgust) What makes you think you can do that? I'm the leader, the boss. You're not THAT stupid. Just THINK about it. ITS THAT'S SIMPLE.

CONTROLLING HER TIME: The abuser controls his partner's time by making her wait. He will say he is ready to talk, but will continue doing something else while his partner waits. He will tell her he is ready to go to bed, then make her wait. If she complains of having to wait, he will blame her for "not having enough patience", "I have to wait on you too", or "Do you expect me just to drop everything!"-- thereby blaming her for HIS making her wait. This also commonly occurs when the abuser is called to a meal, family activity, or that everyone else is ready to leave. If the partner does something while waiting, the abuser will then angrily proclaim that "HE has been waiting on HER". A subtle way of controlling a partner's time is to leave most, if not all, of the work for her to do-then complaining about anything she does for herself, or what she does not get done. Other examples are procrastinating promised work (especially what she is counting on), "watching just one more program" or "playing one more game" (that goes on and on and on), refusing to give a simple and direct answer to concrete and direct questions (Are you going to do this or that. "We'll have to wait and see, I suppose, maybe, what do You think, I didn't know I was supposed to...why don't you figure it out!") The abuser may also control his partner's time by grandstanding. If she tells him she is unhappy about an incident, he will deny it happened, discount her feelings, or accuse her of trying to start a fight. He might also proclaim that "you're causing the problem by bringing it up," "no one else notices," "everyone else does, so why can't I," Diverting, countering, blocking, "forgetting," forcing her to explain, making her repeat because the abuser was not listening or paying attention, and "prove it" are also common ways to control the partner's time and energy. It is rare that an abuser will be willing to discuss or negotiate HIS plan-to do so would be giving up control. This type of control is two-fold: Control her time in some way, any way, then blame HER for it.


2) Are abusers rehabilitatable?
EXTREMELY rare, for both verbal/emotional and physical abusers... usually because they refuse to be accountable or admit that they are abusive. They will typically blame their behavior on their partners.


Source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3693/is_200201/ai_n9084316
The Guardian: "The Home Office of Great Britain recently released the results of a study indicating that men who abuse their wives or partners are the least likely of all types of criminals to improve their behavior with treatment. In fact, says Harry Fletcher of the National Association of Probation Officers, there is evidence that men who go to domestic violence counseling sessions "actually become more cunning in the way they disguise their violence." Because of these findings, Great Britain is eliminating funds for programs aimed at rehabilitating batterers. The money cut from therapy programs will be used for domestic violence shelters, enforcement of injunctions, and electronic tagging to keep violent men away from their victims. There are around 835,000 domestic violence incidents annually in Great Britain.

3) The idea that physical abuse is 'worse' than other forms of abuse is a myth:

"Recognize that emotional abuse is as bad or worse than physical abuse."... http://www.womanabuseprevention.com/html/emotional_abuse.html

"Many women in physically abusive relationships feel that the emotional abuse is more severely debilitating than the physical abuse in the relationship."... http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/familyviolence/html/fvemotion_e.html - Public Health Agency of Canada

"Q: Which is worse - physical or emotional abuse?
Actually, emotional and psychological abuse can be worse than physical abuse. With physical scars, while they may remain, most of the damage heals. Bones mend, skin regenerates, teeth can be replaced, etc. Not that any of this is good. But when a person suffers a systematic attack on their sense of self, on their self-esteem, on their very identity as a person, that sticks for a very, very long time. Most of the women I have interviewed and worked with - we're talking about hundreds of women - even years after their divorce remember lucidly, as if it happened yesterday, remarks that were made to them about their abilities as a mother, as a wife, as a woman. Most of the women I've worked with still remain fearful long after the marriage has ended. AS has been said, 'Betrayal is worse where trust is greatest.'
http://www.nottopeoplelikeus.com/body/faq.html


Whew! That's it for me tonight.

(Glad I did this... brought back a lot of forgotten memories that needed bringing back.)
 purplemarbles
Joined: 10/6/2006
Msg: 118
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History
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 11:24:50 PM
mystykchyk :

Thank you for your answer . Its very informative . But I question the study by the U.K. Home Office . It is based on a prisoner population only and does it state what abuse is being held as a variable ? I assume its physical -- as I doubt that anyone is in prison in the United Kingdom for having being verbally , emotionally , mentally abusive to his wife .

The rates of mental illness in the prison poulation are much , much higher than the general population ( about ~ 5 % ) . This prison population is very dysfunctional . So we can only say that that study is only specific to incarcerated fellons in the U.K not society at large.

A very good post .Thank you .
 mystykchyk
Joined: 4/19/2006
Msg: 119
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/14/2006 11:46:09 PM
I was going to get more on that.. but it was getting late!

It's generally accepted in the field that only 2% of verbal abusers ever change. One of the most highly-read experts regarding non-physical abuse is Patricia Evans. She has published several books about verbal abuse (one of the pioneering authorities), including her latest: "The Verbally Abusive Man - Can He Change?" the subject of which is one of the most discussed issues on her forum (www.verbalabuse.com) but also has proven the statistic to be true, sadly enough - judging from the hundreds of participants who not only do not experience change in their partners, but also based on the extensive research they do and links they throw at newcomers who still have the rose-colored glasses on, hoping that their case is the exception.

Not to say it's impossible, there have been reports of progress and change, but from what I remember only 2 or 3 at the most. This is based on personal observation. But again, the stats are out there as well.
 brabazom3
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 120
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/15/2006 12:24:47 AM
[I mean look at all the shelters for battered and abused women there are ,there's none for abused men]
I have read stories about groups for men that are in abusive situations. Usually the male is the stronger physically in a couple. Restraining orders can be brought up against women as well as men.
My ex got physical and verbal the last night we lived in the same house and when I got help to come to the house, he tried to tell me that he didn't hit me that time. No, he didn't hit me. He tore up my leather purse, yelled all kinds of obscenities at me with the kids present, tore up my business checkbook and stomped all over my personal belongings out of my purse. He tore the phone out of the wall when I tried to phone the police for help. That was what the restraining order was based on, he prevented me from getting help by tearing the phone out. He tried to get me to forgive him until he received word that he was being removed from our house. Then he went nuts! At the end of the six month order he broke into the house, damaged several doors, stole things that belonged to me and when my daughter came home and found him in the house he told her that he didn't break in. He broke her trust when she discovered that the door jams were jimmied and busted and that he had lied to her.
Verbal abuse is worse than physical when the words are burned into your memory forever. Bruises and cuts and broken bones heal, but those echoing ugly words never go away. My self-esteem was completely gone. I thought I was going crazy, my blood pressure was high, I had ulcers and I was suffering from depression and PTSD. To this day I still have flashbacks of some of the things he did and said. If someone grabs my arm suddenly I have to keep reminding myself that others are not out to hurt me just because they grab my arm.
The life I led and the memories I have are like an iceberg, they may seem to others like a small floating ice island, but look beneath the surface and the true iceberg is really ten times as big as it looked on the surface .
We don't hear about the men having all their clothes cut up or burned to prevent them from going anywhere. It is usually the woman who has to take off from work to take care of the kids who are sent home from school sick. A woman's job is not as important as the man's job outside of the home. A woman can always get another job. Please wakeup!
People still believe this BS and the chain continues......
It is still a proven fact that most jobs, where men and woman can both do the job, the man is still paid more than the woman. The woman is left taking care of the children during the divorce and until child support is decided, the woman is trying to feed the kids, pay the bills and all on a smaller paycheck. The man is out there living on his check by himself. And, don't even try telling me that the woman and children can live as cheaply as one. During my divorce my ex was buying new clothes and dance shoes and dining out most nights of the week and entertaining women. I was shopping at Salvation Army for the kids and myself, trying to come up with money for food and holding down a job and worrying about when my ex would break into my house again. I had to try to think like him to stay one step ahead of him. Try living like that for even one day and see how much fun it is! I sold his guns in the very beginning to keep him from stealing them and trying to kill me like he told my kids he was going to do. He then bought a Tazer and told the girls he would use that on me.
Now I will take a deep breath, practice some yoga and then go to sleep and try to forget about this subject.
 *Babydoll272*
Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 121
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/15/2006 4:39:13 AM
Response to SoTexMan...

"Do you think he is actually rehabilitated, or would he revert to his old behavior if the woman he is with was gone?"


He is definitely NOT rehabilitated in my opinion, knowing him for so long, I feel that he WILL revert back to his old behavior and I also feel, that it's just a matter of time before he shows his new girlfriend his true colors. One can only hide things for so long before one blows.

SoTexMan:
"In other words, is his behavior just below the surface, being controlled by that woman?"


Yes, I do think that his nasty behavior is just below the surface. By our past that I spent with him, he can only be civil for a certain period of time. Right now, he is on his best behavior to show this lady that he is a good man...in which he can be as far as being a hard worker and there were some good times in our marriage when he wasn't in those moods...(very rare).

He does have a depression problem in which he denies. His whole family has "depression" of some kinds but he refuses to do anything about it, won't acknowledge it and doesn't want to talk about it. Along with the depression... his verbal abuse all has to do with his past and how his mother NEVER EVER gave him one positive statement of approval in anything he ever accomplished as a child and up to adulthood. She could come out with insults in a heart beat but never a compliment. And of course it goes back to her father etc etc etc. I could go on but you get the gist. This is where his behavior was learned... like Purplemarbles pointed out.

In order for him to be rehabilitated, he would have to acknowledge he has a problem. He would have to be in therapy for years to be able to get over his frustrations and anger. He will never reliquish any responsibility to his abusive ways. So with that, he will go on this way to the end. Sad...very very sad.
 Ninki
Joined: 4/11/2005
Msg: 122
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:04:09 AM
Yes, verbal abuse can damage an individual just as much as physical abuse, even though you can't see the bruises and scars. They're all on the psyche and soul. I was verbally (and physically) abused by my mother and later verbally by my almost-ex. I'd never put up with it again. Life's too short.

Ninki
 abstinent lady
Joined: 8/15/2006
Msg: 123
Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/15/2006 5:30:39 AM
verbal abuse is as damaging as physical abuse, even tho tha scars and bones heal, tha memory of being belittled carries on into your adult lives until you decide , you know what , what they said is wrong and they do not decide my worth.
 Avalon96
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 124
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/15/2006 6:40:51 AM
whoops ,don't know how I ened up with 2 post. LOL
 Avalon96
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 125
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Verbal Abusers
Posted: 11/15/2006 6:45:20 AM
If you are with someone who expresses a low opinon of you, delivered in a loud and obnoxious manner, or spoken with a patronizing tone that dismisses all your ideas as unimportant or irrevelent, run like crazy.
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