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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 6:46:06 PM |
Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns.
2 Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
3 Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control, but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
4 The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
5 We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
6 The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
7 An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
8 A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
9 When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense --give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).
10 The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns and Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
11 One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for spinal paralysis, a computer programmer for Y2K problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.
12 The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1917.
13 The National Guard, funded by the federal government, occupying property leased to the federal government, using weapons owned by the federal government, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a state militia.
14 These phrases, "right of the people peaceably to assemble", "right of the people to be secure in their homes", "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people", and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people," all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.
15 We don't need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution.
16 Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense, which is why the army has millions of them.
17 Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles," because they are military weapons.
18 The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, etc., is responsible for recent school shootings, compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40's, 50's and 60's, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, etc.
19 The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, and the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.
20 Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
21 A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
22Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
23 Ordinary people, in the presence of guns, turn into slaughtering butchers, but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
24 Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
25 A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
26 A self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."
27 Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.
28 The right of online pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
29 Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.
30 The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
31 Charlton Heston as president of the NRA is a shill who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.
32 Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
33 We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
34 Police officers, who qualify with their duty weapons once or twice a year, have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain, even if they practice fifty times as much.
35 Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
36 Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
37 "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, which is why the police need them but "civilians" do not.
38 When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad. But when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson (before they pulled out of the deal they made with the devil during the Clinton administration), that's good.
39 Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see so many police officers with one on their duty weapon.
40 Common sense gun control has been championed by some of the most brilliant political minds of the Twentieth Century... like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Pol Pot.
41 When Handgun Control, Inc., says we want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands," we only mean irresponsible rednecks like you, as opposed to the law-abiding heads of our organization.
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:12:46 PM | interesting stuff, thanks for doing all the leg work.
Now, how many people were murdered a year then?
it says 12 thousand homicides, it does not say on your website how many were self defense or murder/manslaughter.
and 83,000 people REPORT (no doubt many went unreported) using a firearm to defend themselves.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt
"In 1992 offenders armed with handguns committed a record 931,000 violent crimes"
931,000?????
931,000 is how many times more than 83,000.? How many gun related crimes do you think went unreported?
This also doesn't account for how many are women who used their guns in self defense, or to commit gun crimes. It's probably not 50/50 with men. But your own statistics do prove that Americans are at least 10 times as likely to use a gun to committ a crime than they are to protect themselves from one. That's not very uplifting.
So the conclusion we get there is that even assuming all 12k were murder, you're 7 times more likely to see a gun used for self defense than murder.
It doesn't account for how many of the 931,000 gun related crimes involved a bf/gf, or husband/wife gun play, but in terms of successfully shooting me to death, men and women, fair enough. People are more likely to use their gun to defend themselves from a crime than murder me. They're also 10 times more likely to committ a crime then prevent one with it.
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:18:39 PM | 931,000 violent crimes doesn't necessarily mean shooting someone either.
neither does defending yourself with a gun..there weren't 83,000 shootings.
do you think those 931,000 violent gun crimes are worth it? it seems like kind of a shitty trade if you ask me. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:21:16 PM | also, according to your stats, you are more likely to kill yourself than anyone else. What if my girlfriend got really sad, it sounds like she's more likely to kill herself than me if I ran off on her.
that's also not very cool. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:22:15 PM | 22Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
no one needs to pray on my fears, i do that quite enough on my own. i couldn't make myself live alone, as i do, without guns in this house. i'd crawl right out of my skin
i've risen from sleep reaching for a gun ONCE in my lifetime. i was scared that i was going to have to defend my child and myself against an intruder, yet i was grateful that i had a plan and the means to do it. i was also grateful for the hours of target practice that made my weapon feel familiar and steady in my hand
a police officer/friend once told me "there's nothing worse than a scared woman with a gun". FINE!...bad people....hear that? make fun of the scared woman all you want. just remember, when you enter my home to hurt me or my kid there's nothing worse than ME | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:28:43 PM | a police officer/friend once told me "there's nothing worse than a scared woman with a gun". FINE!...bad people....hear that? make fun of the scared woman all you want. just remember, when you enter my home to hurt me or my kid there's nothing worse than ME
I don't think having a terrified person firing a gun through the nice penetrable walls of your house would be great for your kids either.
call me crazy..
couldn't you just get a tazer? | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:41:11 PM |
no one ever said there's nothing worse than a scared woman with a tazer. i prefer to be in the Nothing Worse Than category
when he said, nothing worse - couldn't that mean, nothing worse for everyone involved?
can't shoot through walls into your child's room with a tazer. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 7:52:49 PM | | nope. he's my childhood friend. he was indicating that if he was the bad guy, he would fear going up against a woman who was prepared and determined to protect herself | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 8:00:16 PM | ^
I will admit, the thought of you stricken with panic, firing your gun in your own home is rather unsettling. i wouldn't want to be in that house whether invited or not when that happened. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 11:19:03 PM | No, the stats don't indicate that I'd be likely to kill myself because I have guns. Suicide is not caused by guns. Suicide is a choice that people make. Since I'm not emotionally unstable in the least, I don't have to worry about making that choice.
The thought of having to fire a gun to protect yourself should be pretty damn unsettling to anyone. It's a situation no one ever wants to be in and people with a concealed handgun license think about it more than anyone else. See, we had to sit in a class listening to all the reasons why it would be bad to have to shoot someone. Lawsuits, possible retaliation from friends/family, etc. But one thing never changed, If I have to kill someone to stay alive, at the end of the day, I'm not dead.
I also love the assumption that anyone that draws a gun or has to shoot is panic stricken. Another brady guntard myth. One that can only be proven wrong with life experience.
Twice in my life at a former job I was robbed.
Both times at gun point.
Both times I was able to draw and get my firearm at battery before the robber could get his up.
Both times I was dead calm, even though both times my finger made it to the trigger and had started taking up slack on it.
My aim was rock steady on their heads with none of the B.S. shaking that you hear about.
They turned and ran both times, one made it out the door, one ran almost face first into the barrel of a deputies Glock that had almost followed him in to the store.
Both times I very legally could have killed them, would have had work to pay for my lawyer for the civil trial, and wouldn't have gone through a criminal one. But the mere presentation of my pistol was enough.
Afterwards there is a pretty big adrenaline dump, but during, people are usually rock stead with fight or flight instincts guiding them.
FTR, I've drawn and fired in real life a few times, but not against people, usually aggressive stray dogs. I live out in the country and people drop em off constantly, sometimes they turn feral. Last time was about a month ago, when I dropped a pitbull that was charging my daughter.
I was so panic stricken I hit it 3 times with 3 shots. All that shaking musta done it.
Oh, and I was an EMT for about 8 years and a fireman for 6, my REAL LIFE experiences are mirrored by almost every REAL LIFE experience I dealt with professionally. I wish people would stop letting TV guide their thoughts. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/13/2008 11:23:53 PM | so the 83,000 times each year someone has pulled out a gun in self defense are worth the 931,000 violent crimes committed with guns?
also, i didn't say having a gun makes you more likely to commit suicide, just that you are more likely to kill yourself than anyone else with it according to those stats.. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 12:08:10 AM | What you're failing to remember, is that the 83k is only reported incidences, estimates go as high as 3.6 million, even the fbi estimated over 2 million, and of those 931k violent crimes, well over 85% of the guns were obtained illegally.
So yeah, they are, because we don't punish law abiding people like me, for the actions of criminals. Also, if more people LEGALLY owned guns, you'd a lot more defensive uses for a time, and eventually, a lot less violent crime.
It's hard for a gang banger to commit a drive by when the guy he tried to rob last week put 2 in his chest and one in his head.
And since obviously you don't think that those cases of self defense were worth it, what would you do to confiscate guns from criminals?
What laws would you enact to make criminals stop stealing guns? What laws would you enact to make criminals stop robbing people? What laws would you enact to make criminals stop shooting people?
Oh wait, all that stuff is already illegal and it hasn't done a damn thing to help.
But lets create laws that keep law abiding citizens from owning a means to self defense, because if we can't disarm the criminals, we'll disarm their victims!
That has really worked in the U.K., and Austrailia where since their gun bans, violent crime has risen.
And here in D.C. NYC, and Chicago, where citizens can't own guns. Those are models of safe cities right there! | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 12:15:11 AM | She does not *have to* anything. Who cares?
If she can carry the weight and do the work, let her. A gun is no different than a sword or other deadly item that is used for protection and in this country we are all allowed to bare arms.
With the exception that he can't be around guns or any kids that would require special handling of guns for safety... you don't have to tell him.
A *Man* would not care if you had one or not if he trusted you and your training. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 12:19:15 AM | i'm a little skeptical of the 2.5 million annual gun related crime interventions they estimate...
i don't buy it. those aren't government statistics or a survey recognized by most credible researchers, it's just some hack website claiming that every 10 seconds guns save someone from a crime in this country....who buys this crap? the NVCS which is recognized, had it at 100, 000 defenses per year. that other guy used these purely annoymous surveys, there's no record of who these people who answer them even are. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 5:29:48 AM | I never said it was real, I said even the FBI ESTIMATES the 2.5. I'd have to say it's possible if you count times your life, or the life is in danger and it's not against a person.
Like the instances of the dogs I've had to shoot that were acting aggressive, or charging me and/or my family members/friends. That's happened several times, and we don't report it. I know of several people who got robbed and drew a gun to end it and that was the end of it. The moron took off, why call the cops?
Also, what constitutes a defensive use? Do you have to actually shoot an attacker? Do you have to draw and present your weapon? Is simply lifting your shirt and breaking the thumb snap enough if that alone stopped it?
Middle of the night a homeowner defending his house from a possible break in grabs his M4, Benelli, Mossberg, Glock, wtf ever, and as he's nearing the source of the noise, he's heard chambering a round. Retard criminal takes off. (don't ever rely on the sound of chambering a round to scare anyone off, they'll likely start shooting) Now, most people are gonna call the cops, but a serious gun guy often won't go so far as to bringing the part about the weapon into it. Why? because lots of cops are retards and hate guns and have been known to confiscate them over nothing.
If someone breaks in my house and I have to get a gun, my go to gun is a 10.5 inch barreled AR15 with a silencer. It's by far the best gun I have for indoors, and I know with heavy TAP it's gonna make a badguy DRT.
But the gun has over $3500 bucks into it. Not to mention the 2 tax stamps to make it legal with the ATF for having a silencer and a barrel under 16 inches. So if someone were to break in my house, the ONLY way I'm telling the cops about that gun is if I'd just put 3 rounds in the bad guys chest. Bad guy gets in, I get him lit up with the surefire and he runs, you bet your ass the story would be "He got in, saw me, and ran"
There are a LOT of defensive gun uses that go unreported. 2.5 million? we'll never know.
Oh, and before anyone starts whining about Silencers and short barrel weapons, and full auto for that matter, they are referred to as NFA weapons. They are 100% legal in most states, and only one legal one has ever been used in a crime in the U.S.
A cop shot his wife with his M16 with the selector on Semi, not burst. So even though it had the capability of 3 round burst, he shot her on semi, so the fact that it was NFA doesn't really matter. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 8:15:33 AM | ok, so guns are stopping people out in the boonies from being over run by wild dogs....I don't really teh see the harm in hunting rifles, handguns cause most of the problems. there's no reason for civilians to have an assault rifle, that's nonsense.
where does the FBI say 2 million +, not some hack website claiming they do, but the actual FBI> | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 8:31:07 AM | Semi auto AK-47s, Semi Auto AR-15s and the like are not assault rifles. They are semi, not full. And are used in less than 2% of gun crimes. And handguns aren't causing the problems either. They are the tools of the problem causers. And again, all you can do is disarm the law abiding people, not the criminals. My HANDGUNS are what usually get used to kill the feral dogs, since it'd be a little tiresome to constantly carry around my 9 pound M4.
And whether you think it's non sense for citizens to have them or not, the courts disagree with you. US vs Miller 1934 the last time the US SC has issued a ruling on the 2nd, stated that miller was criminally responsible for breaking the law that stated you had to pay the tax on a short barrel shotgun. Reasoning? The 2nd applied to military style weapons only, and at the time, all shotguns in the Armorys of the military were 18 inch civilian legal versions.
Hunting isn't constitutionally protected. But having a means to defend yourself from those who would do you harm and trample your rights is.
Oh, and since you think an AR15 is an assault weapon and should be banned, but hunting rifles are ok, how do you feel about guns like the R-15. It's an AR15 licensed by Remington marketed to hunters? Every year I have friends take Deer with ARs and AKs, I've taken 2 from my back porch with my M4.
Keep talkin, it's funny! | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 9:11:40 AM | i just don't think you need a semi automatic rifle to protect your home or hunt, or taht you need a silencer. it's fairly ridiculous to claim you do.
handguns actually do cause problems all by themselves, they're the weapon of choice for a criminal because they are so easy to carry and conceal. if you can't carry a 10 lbs shotgun/rifle out on your wilderness estate because it's too heavy, I suggest you hit the gym. my laptop weighs about that much, i don't get tired walking around with it.
the stuff about crime rates going up in the UK and other places with no handguns - is not becaues there are no handguns. They've banned hand gun for decades and didn't have this problem.. It has nothign to do with a lack of legal firepower availble to the public.
the recent rise in crime is due to immigration rate increases - poor immigrants moving into the country who can't find work and are way more likely to commit crimes in those conditions. | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 11:10:41 AM | Actually, the only problems that handguns cause is the desire to buy more. It's an inanimate object and for you to even insinuate that they cause problems is beyond juvenile. Hammers don't cause problems, anchors don't cause problems, cars don't cause problems. Like guns they all serve a purpose and are inanimate. If I see my guns up walking around causing problems, I'll be the first person to melt them down.
As far as not needing semi autos for protection? It's the best tool that the average American can afford. Shotguns are cheaper, sure, and they have problems with over penetration and accuracy that rifles don't. Not to mention follow up shots.
Handguns can be the weapon of choice for criminals, sure, they are also the weapon of choice for cops, and citizens. We've already established that they are used in at least 7 times more defensive uses than they are murders. Since banning handguns will only work on lawabiding citizens and not criminals, banning handguns would only make civilian deaths rise.
And I promise you, you don't carry around your laptop as much as I'd have to carry a rifle when I'm working my land. We work sun up to sun down and a rifle hanging by a one inch wide strap will dig in on anyone. Not to mention getting in the way when you're running a chainsaw, stretching fence, milling, working cattle, or all sorts of other things. Plus, the VFG has a tendency to smack you in the nuts.
As far as having a silencer or not. Don't believe hollywood kiddo. A silencer typcially only takes about 40 db off the shot. Shooting a 5.56 round in doors from some guns will rupture your eardrums because of the overpressure. A silencer will solve that. It still HURTS to shoot indoors but it can save your ears. Hearing protection is a no go because one, it takes time to put on, and the armor already took to much time. and 2, you still need to hear if someone is in your house.Kinda hard with all sound being blocked out.
And like I said, you'll not find a single circumstance of a legally owned can being used in a crime in the U.S. That could be because to own one, the ATF has spent 6 weeks to 6 months digging into every aspect of your past, and it has a $200 tax associated with it. Frankly, if someone owns any NFA weapon I trust them more than most people because they've been through a more extensive background check than it takes to become a cop. And GOOD cans can run several grand. So they are kinda cost prohibitive too.
Any more B.S. you'd like me to dispell? | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 12:43:11 PM | don't feed me that bullshit about hand guns being the same thing as a hammer. If that's the case, sell your guns and walk around with a hammer. It's a big difference. you cannot fire a hammer at someone 15 times while standing at a safe difference. If someone steals your hammer, or if you sell it to someone, they would not be able to hold 10 people hostage, or do a drive by hammering. not unless they were an absolute master with their hammer. any moron can fire a few rounds off.
931,000 violent gun crimes, 83,000 times used for legal self defense. your own stats, that 2.5 million stat is not from a reputable website, its from some gun propaganda.com site. It's not recognized by the census bureau or the DOJ.
if you can't carry a 10 lbs rifle, maybe you could invest in a nice 22. i'm sure it weighs less. that could stop a crazy dog. maybe they could customize it for you in a nice shade of pink.
I've never heard of silencers being at all legal, unless you are in some kind of law enforcement or government agency.
no one needs an assault rifle to protect their home - you don't live in afganistan or some war zone with roving bands of insurgents. lol | |
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| How would you feel about a WOMAN with a GUN? Posted: 6/14/2008 1:59:27 PM | See now you're down to emotions and you're ignoring facts. .22s are great, but dogs ain't the only threat I face. last time it was a retard that built a still on my property and didn't like it when I burned it to the ground.
And you're in mass, you have to be a cop to own a silencer. I'm in a free state. I can own one all damn day. My best friend owns ten. And again, it's not up to you to say who needs what to defend their home. I use the best tool for the job. In my case an M4. It's not an assualt rifle, it doesn't have a happy switch.
RE: the tool analogy, it went so far over your head it's not even funny. Lets me know the caliber of the person I'm debating with. So did you getting all emotional ignoring facts. | |
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