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 AUTHOR
 Open_Book
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 26
Iraq in FragmentsPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

American generals didn't understand the culture of Japan either but after a couple of Atomic Bombs the Japanese listened up when General MacArthur declared martial law and told every Japanese male they had to report to a job every day and stay off the streets at night.


Ummmmm...they didn't have to. They left the Emperor in place, and worked through him.


Peace
 kitchenerkat
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 27
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/13/2006 3:10:38 PM
iraq in fragments is everything going 'right' for the profiteers, and totally wrong for those involed in the hell that is now iraq

i believe it was on the agenda, divide and conquer... age old strategy... google american led death squads in iraq... intent? to incite violence leading to civil war...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jul2005/iraq-j01.shtml

"On June 24, Yasser Salihee, an Iraqi special correspondent for the news agency Knight Ridder, was killed by a single bullet to the head as he approached a checkpoint that had been thrown up near his home in western Baghdad by US and Iraqi troops. It is believed that the shot was fired by an American sniper. According to eyewitnesses, no warning shots were fired.

The US military has announced it is conducting an investigation into Salihee’s killing. Knight Ridder has already declared, however, that “there’s no reason to think that the shooting had anything to do with his reporting work”. In fact, his last assignment gives reason to suspect that it was.

Over the past month, Salihee had been gathering evidence that US-backed Iraqi forces have been carrying out extra-judicial killings of alleged members and supporters of the anti-occupation resistance. His investigation followed a feature in the New York Times magazine in May, detailing how the US military had modeled the Iraqi interior ministry police commandos, known as the Wolf Brigade, on the death squads unleashed in the 1980s to crush the left-wing insurgency in El Salvador.

The Wolf Brigade was recruited by US operatives and the US-installed interim government headed by Iyad Allawi during 2004. A majority of its officers and personnel served in Saddam Hussein’s special forces and Republican Guard—veterans of killings, torture and repression. The unit has been used against the resistance in rebellious cities such as Mosul and Samarra, and, over the past six weeks, has played a prominent role in the massive crackdown ordered by the Iraqi government in Baghdad codenamed “Operation Lightning”.

On June 27, Knight Ridder published the results of its inquiry in an article jointly written by Salihee and correspondent Tom Lasseter. The journalists “found more than 30 examples in less than a week” of corpses turning up in Baghdad morgues of people who were last seen being detained by the police commandos.

The men, according to the central Baghdad morgue director Faik Baqr, had “been killed in a methodical fashion”. The article reported: “Their hands had been tied or handcuffed behind their backs, their eyes were blindfolded and they appeared to have been tortured. In most cases, the dead men looked as if they’d been whipped with a cord, subjected to electric shocks or beaten with a blunt object and shot to death, often with single bullets to their heads.”




the article is quite lengthy, but worth the read i think... for those that wish to discredit the above because it's from a 'socialist' publication, there are additional hits on google, this was just the first one i found




once the oil deal with the 'big four' is signed in december as scheduled, why not pull out the majority of the troops? the puppet government is installed and the permanent bases have been built

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/addpost.aspx?PostID=5835127&x=13&y=9

..."Assuming, then, a near year to come of withdrawal buzz, speculation, and even a media blitz of withdrawal announcements, the question is: How can anybody tell if the Bush administration is actually withdrawing from Iraq or not? Sometimes, when trying to cut through a veritable fog of misinformation and disinformation, it helps to focus on something concrete. In the case of Iraq, nothing could be more concrete -- though less generally discussed in our media -- than the set of enormous bases the Pentagon has long been building in that country. Quite literally multi-billions of dollars have gone into them. In a prestigious engineering magazine in late 2003, Lt. Col. David Holt, the Army engineer "tasked with facilities development" in Iraq, was already speaking proudly of several billion dollars being sunk into base construction ("the numbers are staggering"). Since then, the base-building has been massive and ongoing.

In a country in such startling disarray, these bases, with some of the most expensive and advanced communications systems on the planet, are like vast spaceships that have landed from another solar system. Representing a staggering investment of resources, effort, and geostrategic dreaming, they are the unlikeliest places for the Bush administration to hand over willingly to even the friendliest of Iraqi governments.

If, as just about every expert agrees, Bush-style reconstruction has failed dismally in Iraq, thanks to thievery, knavery, and sheer incompetence, and is now essentially ending, it has been a raging success in Iraq's "Little America." For the first time, we have actual descriptions of a couple of the "super-bases" built in Iraq in the last two and a half years and, despite being written by reporters under Pentagon information restrictions, they are sobering. Thomas Ricks of the Washington Post paid a visit to Balad Air Base, the largest American base in the country, 68 kilometers north of Baghdad and "smack in the middle of the most hostile part of Iraq." In a piece entitled Biggest Base in Iraq Has Small-Town Feel, Ricks paints a striking portrait:

The base is sizeable enough to have its own "neighborhoods" including "KBR-land" (in honor of the Halliburton subsidiary that has done most of the base-construction work in Iraq); "CJSOTF" ("home to a special operations unit," the Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force, surrounded by "especially high walls," and so secretive that even the base Army public affairs chief has never been inside); and a junkyard for bombed out Army Humvees. There is as well a Subway, a Pizza Hut, a Popeye's, "an ersatz Starbucks," a 24-hour Burger King, two post exchanges where TVs, iPods, and the like can be purchased, four mess halls, a hospital, a strictly enforced on-base speed limit of 10 MPH, a huge airstrip, 250 aircraft (helicopters and predator drones included), air-traffic pile-ups of a sort you would see over Chicago's O'Hare airport, and "a miniature golf course, which mimics a battlefield with its baby sandbags, little Jersey barriers, strands of concertina wire and, down at the end of the course, what appears to be a tiny detainee cage."

Ricks reports that the 20,000 troops stationed at Balad live in "air-conditioned containers" which will, in the future -- and yes, for those building these bases, there still is a future -- be wired "to bring the troops Internet, cable television and overseas telephone access." He points out as well that, of the troops at Balad, "only several hundred have jobs that take them off base. Most Americans posted here never interact with an Iraqi."

Recently, Oliver Poole, a British reporter, visited another of the American "super-bases," the still-under-construction al-Asad Airbase (Football and pizza point to US staying for long haul). He observes, of "the biggest Marine camp in western Anbar province," that "this stretch of desert increasingly resembles a slice of US suburbia." In addition to the requisite Subway and pizza outlets, there is a football field, a Hertz rent-a-car office, a swimming pool, and a movie theater showing the latest flicks. Al-Asad is so large -- such bases may cover 15-20 square miles -- that it has two bus routes and, if not traffic lights, at least red stop signs at all intersections.

There are at least four such "super-bases" in Iraq, none of which have anything to do with "withdrawal" from that country. Quite the contrary, these bases are being constructed as little American islands of eternal order in an anarchic sea. Whatever top administration officials and military commanders say -- and they always deny that we seek "permanent" bases in Iraq -– facts-on-the-ground speak with another voice entirely. These bases practically scream "permanency."


fragments for the people of iraq... and total disarray...
 kitchenerkat
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 28
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/13/2006 6:25:57 PM
are you referring to the american installed iraqi puppet government that speaks for big business and not the people of iraq?

currently both the US troops and Iraqi troops are in hell... for the sole benefit of profiteers

saddam, along with bush should have been tried at the hague... and saddam was american installed... while he was committing his atrocities america increased trade with him

the constitution has raped iraq ... the big 4 will be the biggest winners... not the people of iraq

want to talk about iran where a democratically elected president was ousted by an american coup allowing religious extremists to run whacko?

the new and improved 'crusades' have been on the agenda long before 9/11... scratch the surface my friend
 SoTexMan
Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 29
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/13/2006 9:00:16 PM
Hey, all:

The title of the video is prophetic--since everyone knows the "country" was put together by the Brits against the will of the Kurds, Suunis and Shiites, who made it up.

Due to the current violence the three cultures are segregating on their own--they are fleeing the violence by returning to more historically, culturally homogeneous areas--and we thought we could control this? Sheer arrogant incompetence.

It sounds like a good video to see.

David


Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 30
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/17/2006 7:17:43 AM
The US was wrong to invade Iraq.
They were wrong about the WMD's.
The US can't admit to making a mistake and consequently based decisions on what they thought the situation was and not on reality.

When ever I start to feel bad for my american friends I just have to remember how the US government would speak about their friends and allies; the French were all but called cowards, french fries were replaced with liberty fries; old and trusted european allies were now "old Europe". The UN was an irrelevant debating society and e-bay would not accept bids from Canada.

Between Chaney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Wolfowitz, Pearl and Rice the insults piled up high and fast; and that has not been forgotten amid the spin and hype.

I would strongly recommend that any American in support of the Iraqi occupation or those feeling slighted by the international communities inaction on Iraq consider how the people YOU elected have represented you to the world.
 Pyro74
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 31
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Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/17/2006 10:42:47 AM
Strong statement paddler, but as an American I totally agree. The actions of this administration have been very far from "American." It amazes me that people around the world can see thru the BS, but people living in the country can't.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 32
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/17/2006 10:13:01 PM
More evidence from the top :


U.S. Intel Chiefs Paint a Grim Picture of Iraq
The situation on the ground is bad, say the CIA and Pentagon spymasters. But it could still get a lot worse

Wednesday, Nov. 15, 2006

Just in case the politicians needed reminding of the urgency of turning things around in Iraq, two of the nation's most senior intelligence officers on Tuesday delivered a gloomy assessment of the war. General Michael Hayden, director of the CIA, warned at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that the sectarian violence between Iraq's Shia and Sunnis has gotten so out of hand it "now presents the greatest immediate threat to Iraq's stability and future." And the Pentagon's top spy, Defense Intelligence Agency director Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, testified with Hayden and was equally downbeat. "Although a significant breakdown of central authority has not occurred, Iraq has moved closer to this possibility," Maples said.

Hayden, however, has seen little that has pleased him the past eight months. In fact, he concluded, Iraq has been going steadily downhill since last February when the bombing of the al-Askari Shi'ite shrine in Samarra sparked a frenzy of sectarian killing. Hayden ticked off the problems: "There remains in Iraq today an active insurgency, a broad al-Qaeda offensive targeting us and Iraqis, criminality and lawlessness on a broad scale, rival militias competing for power."

Political leaders have been unwilling or unable to rein in militias or death squads. Meanwhile, Iran "is stoking violence" and al-Qaeda "continues to foment sectarian violence," he warned. "Even if the central government gains broader support from Iraq's communities, implementing the reforms needed to improve life for all Iraq will be extremely difficult."

Overall, insurgent attacks have more than doubled from January to October, from an average of 70 a day to an average of 180 a day. The recent U.S.-Iraqi offensive against insurgents and militias in Baghdad achieved only "limited success," he testified. Iraqi forces haven't been able to control areas U.S. forces have cleared for them. "Once coalition forces moved on, attacks returned to and even surpassed preoperational levels," the DIA chief testified.

But the intel chiefs are even more pessimistic over the prospects for Iraq if the U.S. is unable to ensure sufficient stability for the central government to exercise form of sovereignty over the country. The consequences of a failed Iraqi state would be "catastrophic" for Iraqis, Hayden warned. "It would plunge them deeper into chaos and the road out of it would be longer." The instability for the rest of region would be "almost as bad." The temptation of Iran and Syria to intervene "may become irresistible." And, Hayden worries, it "would embolden the worst of our enemies — certainly al-Qaeda."

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1560025,00.html


Iraq's Prime Minister, Nouri al-Maliki, looks like he is seeing the writing on the wall as well.


Wednesday, Nov. 01, 2006

Last Saturday, Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, according to one of his aides, warned the U.S. ambassador that he was "not America's man in Iraq." On Tuesday he drove home the point, ordering an end to the U.S. military cordon around the Baghdad Shi'ite stronghold of Sadr City — a demand with which the U.S. military complied. Although U.S. troops don't take orders from the Iraqi government, refusing to heed the writ of that democratically elected government would make the U.S. military presence in that country untenable. The U.S. did point out that it had been consulted by Maliki, although that discussion appears to have occurred less than an hour before the announcement was made.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1553558,00.html



Even Tony Blair just came out and admitted the war was "a disaster".


Blair admits Iraq war has been a disaster

TONY Blair has admitted the Iraq war has been a disaster in a ground-breaking interview with al-Jazeera, the controversial Arab satellite TV channel.

The Prime Minister's remarks - aimed at a largely Arab audience around the world - will be seized on by his critics as proof that the war was a mistake.

However, Mr Blair made clear he blamed insurgents for the chaos since the fall of Saddam. Challenged by Sir David Frost, the veteran broadcaster, that the western intervention in Iraq had "been pretty much of a disaster", he responded: "It has."

Mr Blair added: "There's a deliberate strategy - al-Qaeda with Sunni insurgents on one hand, Iranian-backed elements with Shia militias on the other - to create a situation in which the will of the majority for peace is displaced by the will of the minority for war."

His remarks came after a government minister last night apparently savaged Mr Blair's decision to invade Iraq. Margaret Hodge, the industry minister was said to have told Labour activists at a closed meeting that the decision to go to war was the Prime Minister's "big mistake in foreign affairs". She was also said to have attacked Mr Blair's "moral imperialism".

http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1708302006



The problem is that the USA has decided to have a permanent set-up in Iraq, which is proved by that billion dollar embassy ( with it's own missle defense system) , and those sprawling American bases the size of cities. In a land where few construction projects have seen much success, those things are exceptional.

The money, time, and effort placed on them mean that the US military is going to be there in some number ( perhaps 50,000 plus) for decades - or at least that is what is planned now.

If the administration tries to involve Syria and Iran, they will also validate those two countries by that action. They cannot be both "the axis of evil" and a partner in the Iraq solution at the same time. Both those countries have a vested interest in Iraq, based on both religious and geographical reasons. Both will be involved, one way or another, due to those self-same reasons. Neither is going to sit there patiently, and assist in the formation of a "democratic" government with direct US ties.

The future of Iraq is, right now, being decided in a labyrinth of political corridors. Many of those lead to dead ends, and some just circle endlessly. The growing pressure on the ground in Iraq, and the rise in power of forces like the Sadr army, are the timer that is running while that journey takes place.
 Jerry06
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 33
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/18/2006 11:05:03 PM

It amazes me that people around the world can see thru the BS, but people living in the country can't


The US troops can't either. They want to stay in Iraq so they can prove the US is in it for the long haul. They don't want to cut and run. They don't believe elections are rigged and if it was then it is the Democrats that did it. Not all of course. One guy posted that we could have went to war with Iraq because they fired on a warplane two months before 9/11. I'm wondering why we were spying on Iraq before 9/11 but the troops defend this war. I don't understand why they want this war so badly. I understand why the Bush administation wants this war but not the troops.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 34
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/19/2006 9:08:20 AM

The problem is that the USA has decided to have a permanent set-up in Iraq, which is proved by that billion dollar embassy ( with it's own missle defense system) , and those sprawling American bases the size of cities. In a land where few construction projects have seen much success, those things are exceptional.


That was the actual reason for invading Iraq. Why else would US go invade a country without an exit strategy??

There was no exit strategy because the purpose of the invasion was to stay there.
 pansatyros
Joined: 3/24/2006
Msg: 35
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/19/2006 11:02:29 AM
So what you are calling fragments of Iraq are still the area of the Sunni Triangle and Iran and Syrian supported Saddam loyalist who want to regain power and or continue the Jihad against the west.


not to mention "deadenders in their last throes(tm)" our Dear Sub-Leader mentioned a while ago...this rigor mortis is taking a bit longer though...


It has already been said by Iranian President he is ready to set in motions situations that will lead to Armageddon.
So if this is what you have supporting the insurgency in the Sunni triangle no wonder that area is still not up to par with the rest of the country.


another clear minded strategist, have you applied for Rumsfeld's position? It will be a shame to lose on that opportunity...your country needs you!


Having to fight the devil at every turn is a difficult task for the coalition troops. However, it is a job that must be done.


Has anybody ordered the mandatory wooden stakes, holy water vials and silver crosses necessary for this stupendous task? No! You know why? Because the liberal media(tm) and the International Communist Conspiracy(tm) (to sap and impurify all our precious bodily fluids) has convinced the world that our stormtroopers need more armor for their vehicles instead...

...we need men like you in power my friend...men with a resolve and clear vision...men with a strong grasp of reality...
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 36
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/20/2006 7:06:29 AM

Kissinger: Victory in Iraq no longer possible

POSTED: 7:40 p.m. EST, November 19, 2006

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A U.S. victory in Iraq is no longer possible under the conditions the Bush administration hopes to achieve, but a quick withdrawal of American troops would have "disastrous consequences," former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said Sunday.

President Bush has said the United States will remain in Iraq until the country's government "can sustain itself and defend itself," and a top Iraqi official disputed Kissinger's assessment of the three-year-old war in an interview with CNN.

But in a BBC interview Sunday morning, Kissinger said the U.S. course needs to be redefined -- and the breakup of Iraq could be the eventual outcome.

Kissinger served as national security adviser and secretary of state in the Nixon and Ford administrations and has advised the Bush administration on Iraq. In August 2005, he wrote in The Washington Post that "victory over the insurgency is the only meaningful exit strategy."

But on Sunday he said a military victory in Iraq was no longer in the cards.

"If you mean by clear military victory an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he said.

His comments come as a commission led by another former top diplomat, James Baker, prepares to offer its recommendations for a change of strategy in the war. The conflict has become increasingly unpopular in the United States as the American death toll nears 2,900, while waves of sectarian violence over the past nine months have left thousands of Iraqis dead.

However, a premature withdrawal of all 140,000 American troops now in the country risks bringing about a "dramatic collapse" of Iraq and eventually require U.S. forces to return to the region, Kissinger said.
Iraqi ambassador disputes Kissinger's conclusions

Instead, he recommended an international conference with Iraq's neighbors, the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and countries he said have a "major interest" in the outcome -- such as south Asian nuclear rivals India and Pakistan -- to craft a settlement.

"I think we need to separate ourselves from the civil war, and we have to move at some early point to some international definition of what a legitimate outcome is," Kissinger told the BBC. "By legitimate, I mean something that can be supported by the surrounding states and by ourselves and our allies."

The partition of Iraq on ethnic lines "might be an outcome," he acknowledged, "but it might be better not to organize it that way on a formal basis."

Samir al-Sumaidie, Iraq's ambassador to the United States, disputed Kissinger's conclusions. He said his government still could prevail over the chaos of a largely Sunni Arab insurgency, sectarian militias and Islamic fighters who swear loyalty to the al Qaeda terrorist network.

"I think a lot of people in Iraq, the members of the government and the members of the policy council for national security all believe that the situation is retrievable," he told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

"It's doable, but we need to have support of the right kind," al-Sumaidie said. "Now we have a lot of pressure on us, not only from our regional neighbors who are interfering, but pressures from our own friends."

Voters' dismay over Iraq contributed to the Democratic takeover of Congress in the November 7 midterm elections. The incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sen. Carl Levin, has called for a "phased redeployment" of U.S. troops as a way of pressuring Iraq's government to make the political compromises needed to end the violence.

"You want to make the point to the Iraqis that, folks, you've got to take responsibility for your own country," said Levin, a Michigan Democrat. "We cannot do it for you."

But Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, repeated his argument Sunday that more U.S. troops, not fewer, are needed in Iraq. He told ABC's "This Week" that such an increase would put "a terrible strain" on the Army and Marines. "But there's only one thing worse, and that is defeat," he said.

McCain is expected to be the ranking Republican on Levin's committee in the new Congress and took the first step toward a possible presidential bid in 2008 last week. He said the United States has been losing the war in Iraq and that American troops have been "fighting and dying for a failed policy."

"There's no good options," he said. "But the consequences of failure are severe, and I believe that we must do what's necessary to prevail. And I understand how terrible this is. The young men and women who are in the military today, and God bless them, they'll respond if called upon to."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/19/iraq.kissinger/index.html


When Kissinger is saying victory (as defined by the President) is impossible, it's over.




Bush noncommittal on Iraq troop deployment

POSTED: 9:52 a.m. EST, November 20, 2006

BOGOR, Indonesia (AP) -- President Bush said Monday he hasn't decided whether to send more troops to Iraq or begin bringing them home, saying he is awaiting the military's recommendations.

But despite the deep dislike of the war in Indonesia and other Muslim countries, Yudhoyono declined to directly criticize it or call for an immediate end to the U.S. presence in Iraq. He advocated only "a proper timetable" for "the disengagement of U.S. military forces and other coalition forces from Iraq."

Bush was asked about proposals by some members of Congress, including 2008 presidential hopeful John McCain, R-Arizona, to send more troops to help the roughly 140,000 already there stabilize the country and curb rising sectarian violence.

I haven't made any decisions about troop increases or troop decreases, and won't until I hear from a variety of sources, including our own United States military," the president replied.

Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is at work on a thorough review of options for Iraq, which figured heavily in the loss of control of Congress by Bush's Republican party earlier this month. As a result, many Democrats are calling for a phased withdrawal -- something Bush has refused -- and an independent bipartisan panel is compiling recommendations for the president, too.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/11/20/bush.asia.ap/index.html


So, this fellow that was the "decider" is now.....no longer deciding.
 Sombient
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 37
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/20/2006 10:11:31 AM
Stay in Iraq, says Pentagon panel

A US military review of strategy in Iraq is likely to back a limited troop increase focused on training, officials have told the Washington Post. Senior defence officials said a review panel appeared to favour an option dubbed "Go Long", the paper reported.

Other plans - "Go Big" and "Go Home" - were seen as less plausible, the officials said.

Two other reviews are under way, one by the White House, the other by a bipartisan panel of experts.

Continued violence in Iraq was a key factor in the Republican defeat in mid-term polls and US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's resignation. On Monday, the US military said two more of its servicemen had died in Iraq - a marine who was killed in an attack in Anbar province and a soldier who died in a roadside bombing in south-eastern Baghdad.

Hybrid plan

The review panel's study, commissioned by Gen Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has all but rejected a massive scale-up of operations in Iraq, the unnamed officials told the Post. More troops would be required to do this than the US military and fledgling Iraqi security forces could provide, they said.

But the Pentagon group had also concluded that a swift withdrawal of US troops would be likely to push the country into full-blown civil war, the sources said. The officials said the panel was likely to favour a hybrid plan that cut the number of troops in combat roles while expanding US efforts to train and advise Iraqi security forces, the officials said.

Under the plan, an initial boost of 20,000 - 30,000 soldiers to the 140,000 already on the ground would be followed by longer term cuts, to as few as 60,000 troops, the newspaper reported.

(snipped redundant quotes from Montreal's post)

Reviews

The military panel's reported recommendations bear similarities to comments made last week by Gen John Abizaid, the top US commander for the Middle East. He said he did not believe either raising or reducing US troop levels will help ease the conflict in Iraq.

But he said he was still optimistic the country could be stabilized and that he believed the US could "accelerate" the training of Iraqi forces to within the next year. The Iraq Study Group, co-chaired by James Baker who served as secretary of state under President Bush Sr, is expected to issue its findings next month. President George W Bush's National Security Adviser, Stephen Hadley, has confirmed that he is also carrying out a review of US policy in Iraq for the White House.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6164704.stm
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 38
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/20/2006 10:37:27 AM
Neither the Iraqi government ... nor their security forces are that incompetent.

Right now, the main enemy is the occupying army. Their strategy is simple, make life miserable and expensive for the Americans and they will leave. Makes sense?
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 39
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/20/2006 11:15:57 AM

I say more troops or needed to occupy the Iran and Syria borders so they can not send military aid to the insurgents. Keep the pressure on until Iraqis can defend their government.


America can't even secure it's own borders from the big bad Mexicans In addition, flow of military hardware continues from Iran through Iraq and Syria into Lebanon. Send another 100000 soldier, won't make a bit of a difference, just gives the insurgents more targets to shoot at.

Iraqis main goal right now is to get the Americans out. Most of their security forces personnel are part time militants and insurgents. Hello ...
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 40
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/21/2006 9:12:06 AM
Change over a long period of time is evolution.
Change over a short period of time is revolution.

The US is stuck in the middle of a revolution and I'm afaid to say that the worst is yet to come.

Consider that intellectuals are being targetted and killed at an increasing rate. This segment of society represents the moderates. When they are gone then the people will only hear the extremeist views.

The fracturing of Iraq along ethnic lines is much the same as we saw in the former USSR followed by ehtnic cleasing. Already we're seeing the death squads in Iraq many of whom are dressed as police or military.

The politicians manipulated the intellegence and the american public to get into Iraq. For 4 years things have gone from bad to worse while the Bush team avoided responsiblity or blame by repeating that the "generals on the ground" were the ones advising the President what to do; that and the tried and true "Support the Troops" which many of us have come to understand as "Support the Politicians" or "Support the Policy decision".

Tough choices have to be made and mistakes will have to be admitted. And if anyone thinks that any other nation on earth wants to work with the US on Iraq........your nuts!

The Baath party is in Syria, they have strong ties to the Sunnis and can represent their interests. Iran has been in Iraq from the start of the occupation and have contacts through out Iraq Shia community. From civil administration to military (or terrorist) operations. Turkey will have to deal with the Kurds if war is to be avoided in their boarder. All this has to be coordinated with a US withdrawl and considering how well the USA is loved in the middle east in general; you can bet they will want to majke it as humiliating as possible.

Personally I don't see the US eating crow.
In fact I can see a wider war before that happens.....possibly with Iran directly.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 41
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History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 11/24/2006 1:26:52 PM
On the military front....




November 22, 2006

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The new Marine Corps commandant said Wednesday that the longer than anticipated pace of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is putting an unacceptable strain on his troops.

Gen. James Conway said the service is unable to meet its goal of giving Marines twice as much time at home as in a war zone.

He said unless the demand on the corps eases, he may have to propose increasing the size of the force. (Watch as Gen. Conway describes the possible "negative consequences" of the pressure Video)

Currently there are 180,000 Marines on active duty and about 40,000 in the active reserves. Marine units serve seven-month deployments in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Conway, who led Marine units into Iraq in 2003 and served on the Pentagon's joint staff, said his troops should get 14 months of relief before they are sent back.

Typically, however, they get only seven or eight months home before being returned to combat, he said.

Assuming the Marines' top job little more than a week ago, Conway told reporters at a Pentagon roundtable discussion that he sees two ways to alleviate stress on troops.

"One is reducing the requirement [of a set deployment time]. The other is potentially growing the force for what we call the long war," Conway said.

Some units are serving their fourth tour in Iraq, and the strain on their families has raised concern that Marines will start leaving the service when their enlistments are up.

"There is stress on the individual Marines that is increasing, and there is stress on the institution to do what we are required to do, pretty much by law, for the nation," he was quoted by The Associated Press as saying.

The current rotation of troops to Iraq is also limiting training, he said.

"We're not sending battalions like we used to for the mountain warfare training, the jungle training," he told reporters. "We're not doing combined arms exercises that we used to do for the far maneuver-type activities we have to be prepared to do."

Conway said he doesn't know whether an expected adjustment in strategy in Iraq will result in the need for more Marines, so he's holding off on making any formal recommendations.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/22/us.marines/index.html


And meanwhile, on the ground....


November 24, 2006

Bombs kill 138 in Baghdad's Sadr City

• Baghdad International Airport closed until further notice
• The Iraqi Interior Ministry imposes an 8 p.m. curfew for Baghdad
• Iraq's health minister says 138 killed, 200 wounded in Baghdad's Sadr City
• Gunmen attack the Iraq Health Ministry in Baghdad, police say

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A savage string of apparently coordinated bombings erupted Thursday in Sadr City, a Shiite slum of Baghdad, killing 138 people.

Police called it the deadliest single strike in Iraq since the war began more than three years ago.

Bombs and mortar shells struck Sadr City at 15-minute intervals, beginning about 3 p.m., according to The Associated Press, with the first bombing hitting a vegetable market. (Watch flames, chaos in Sadr City Video)

Shiites responded almost immediately, the AP reported, firing 10 mortar rounds at the holiest Sunni shrine in Baghdad, the Abu Hanifa Sunni mosque in Azamiya. The attack killed one person and wounded 14 others, the AP said.

Leaders from Iraq's Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish communities issued a televised appeal for calm, according to the AP.

Witnesses told CNN that people on loudspeakers at Shiite mosques in urged residents to donate blood for the wounded in Sadr City.

Earlier reports indicated 144 people were killed and 206 were wounded, but an Iraqi Health Ministry official on Friday who surveyed the aftermath said the death toll stood at 138, with more than 200 people wounded in the blasts.

Health Minister Ali Shammari said six car bombs detonated in the attack.

"This is a bloody day," he said.

The Interior Ministry imposed a curfew for Baghdad starting at 8 p.m., an hour earlier than the usual overnight curfew begins. It's unclear how long the curfew extension will last.

An Interior Ministry official said Baghdad's International Airport has been closed till further notice.

"As of right now, we have no reports of Iraqi army or coalition force casualties. There are no U.S. units in Sadr City," U.S. Lt. Col. Christopher Garver said.

He said the 9th Iraqi Army and coalition advisers are on the scene. U.S. helicopters flew over but did not engage any targets, and there has been no reported fighting involving coalition forces.

"There have been reports of residents randomly firing weapons after the [car bomb] detonations," said Garver, who added conditions had calmed down.

Thursday's violence came a day after a U.N. report about Iraq that underscored the unbridled sectarian violence in Iraq. The report said that 3,709 civilians were killed in violence in Iraq in October -- the highest monthly toll since the war's start. (Full story)

Thursday's attacks, launched within the course of half an hour, were part of a spasm of violence that shook two Baghdad bastions of support for anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr -- the Sadr City slum in the Iraqi capital's northeast and the Health Ministry compound, controlled by the cleric's political movement.

At least 30 gunmen thought to be from a Sunni neighborhood attacked the Health Ministry, police said.

U.S. military commanders suspect al-Sadr's movement is at the center of sectarian fighting in the capital over the past year.

There were no immediate details about casualties at the ministry compound, which is in central Baghdad's Bab al-Mudham area.

At least three mortar rounds landed inside the compound, police said, and the gunmen tried to break into it and fought with ministry security guards.

A Health Ministry official said the attackers came from the nearby Sunni neighborhood of Fadhel and that they also struck the Shiite Endowment, which manages Shiite institutions around the country.

There were other attacks earlier this week on Health Ministry officials. A deputy minister was kidnapped Sunday, and another official escaped injury Monday when gunmen opened fire on his convoy and killed two of his guards.

- Ibid




U.N.: Iraqi civilian death toll reaches new monthly high


• The U.N. says more than 7,000 Iraqi civilians died in September and October
• October was deadliest month since the 2003 U.S. invasion, the report says
• Sectarian strife and terrorism are to blame for the violence, the report finds
• Attacks have risen against journalists, women, minorities and professionals

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Insurgent attacks in Iraq killed 3,709 civilians last month, making October the deadliest month since the war began in 2003, according to U.N. figures.

The U.N. Assistance Mission in Iraq, which issues bimonthly human rights reports on the war-torn country, came out with its findings for September and October on Wednesday.

September had 3,345 civilian deaths -- which, along with October, would bring to 7,054 the number of violent deaths during the two-month period, according to the U.N. tally.

Baghdad alone had no less than 4,985 deaths, "most of them as a result of gunshot wounds," said the U.N. Assistance Mission, using figures provided by the Iraqi Health Ministry.

The figures were slightly higher than in July and August, when 6,599 civilians were killed.

The number of civilian deaths has been rising all year since the February bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, north of Baghdad, with sectarian violence escalating greatly after that attack.

Sunni-Shiite hostilities, with revenge killings, mosque attacks, and militias and death squads prominent, were central to Iraq's problems, the report found.

The report attributes the grinding violence to "terrorist acts and sectarian strife, including revenge killings, fueled by insurgent, militia and criminal activities."

Such attacks "are the main source of violence in the country, adversely affecting the displacement of individuals and entire communities," it said.

And that "violence in Iraq has been increasingly acquiring a sectarian nature, with each attack generating a surge of revenge attacks in Baghdad and around the country."

In addition, civilians face "roadside bombs, drive-by shootings, kidnappings, police abuse, crime, military operations and cross fire between rival gangs, or between insurgents and police and MNF-I (Multi-National Forces-Iraq)," the report said.

The report noted "allegations of criminal and militia infiltration into the police," adding that "the inability of law enforcement agencies and the justice system to protect the population of Iraq" enables "militias and criminal gangs to operate with growing impunity."

The U.N. mission said it welcomed tougher vetting of police personnel by the Iraqi Interior Ministry.
Journalists, other groups targeted

Among the ominous developments noted in September and October:

# Media were victims of attacks. Eighteen journalists were killed during this period, and two satellite TV stations -- Al-Shaabiya and Al Iraqiya -- were attacked.

# Minorities have been attacked, including Christians, Sabean-Mandeans and Palestinian refugees.

# More women have been subjected to religious extremism or honor killings, and non-Muslim women have been "forced to wear a head scarf and to be accompanied by spouses or male relatives."

# Professionals -- such as judges, lawyers and intellectuals; political, tribal and religious leaders; government officials; and members of security forces -- have been targeted.

# Education has suffered, with schools not opening, and teachers and students "forced to leave the country."

# Mass kidnappings of civilians, with bodies being subjected to torture and execution-style killings. Witnesses have seen perpetrators wearing militia attire and police or army uniforms.

# The number of missing persons has risen.

# Security concerns persist in the detention of prisoners, with "arbitrary detention, grievous conditions of detention, allegations of torture and mistreatment" and prisoners.
Grim demographic changes

The sectarian violence has affected entire communities and spurred thousands to flee their homes, the report said.

"In some areas, neighborhoods have been split up or inhabitants have been forced to flee to other areas or even to neighboring countries in search of safety," it said.

Sectarian violence has led to the displacement of more than 418,000 people, and military operations have forced 15,240 to leave their homes since the February shrine bombing, the report said, citing estimates from the U.N. refugee agency.

In addition, 1.6 million have left the country altogether since 2003, and some 100,000 per month have left Iraq during the past few months, the report said, again citing estimates from the office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/22/iraq.report/
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 42
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 12/4/2006 2:42:29 PM
The Iraqi demographics is changing. In essence, the violence is relocating the people. The Shite that live in the west are moving to the east for safety and the Sunnis doing the same thing. The rich and educated have moved away, some to Jordan, some here etc. and waiting to see what happens. They are already fragmenting. I don't think it's going to hold together.
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 43
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 1/31/2007 8:01:55 PM
A new name that is being thrown around is Sumer, or the Islamic Republic of Sumer by the Shia. Kurds have always wanted to go and that leave the Sunnis and hopefully a share of the oil money.


Sumer (or Šumer) was one of the earliest civilizations, located in the southern part of Mesopotamia (southeastern Iraq) from the time of the earliest records in the mid 4th millennium BC until the rise of Babylonia in the late 3rd millennium BC. Sumer together with Ancient Egypt and the Indus Valley Civilization is considered the first settled society in the world to have manifested all the features needed to qualify fully as a "civilization".
 bobby7
Joined: 3/22/2006
Msg: 44
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 1/31/2007 9:21:30 PM
"This is a film Americans should try to view with an open mind.

Slim chance of it being shown here locally - this is a very conservative area. Too bad."


Sombient; What are the chances that Americans will view this, or any other 'in depth' look at Iraq with an open mind??..

People, especially the general population, have a peculiar aversion to mirrors.. They would, much rather, be on the 'other side', and watch a sanitized version of what is actually happening..

Shame..Good documentary!!
 arri
Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 45
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 2/2/2007 1:14:14 PM
Key findings of the Iraq National Security Estimate have been posted (pdf) at the Director of National Intelligence web site.

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20070202_release.pdf

Important points from TPM commenters:

*It is a civil war but in some ways it is worse than just civil war, since other kinds of violent conflict are also going on.

*Iraq's neighbors, such as Iran, are not significant drivers of the violence, which is internally generated.
 Internetdatingpariah
Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 46
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 2/2/2007 1:20:44 PM
Bobby,

You don't KNOW the general population of the US or what we're thinking. You may hold onto to that opinion if it makes you feel good, but generalizations suck.

That's aboot right eh?
 Internetdatingpariah
Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 47
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 2/2/2007 1:23:27 PM
Paddler,

It's NOT the US that invaded Iraq
It's NOT the US that won't admit it was wrong

It was George and Donald and Chaney.
THEY are NOT the US.

Over 70% of the US DOES NOT support him so please don't lump us all in with them.
 paddler
Joined: 9/29/2004
Msg: 48
view profile
History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 2/3/2007 7:47:43 AM
Guess you didn't bother to look at the date on that post......Did you "JUSTHANK"?

I wrote that at the end of September 2004!

Perhaps you wanted to comment on my post being as true today as when I wrote it YEARS AGO!
 whothehellknows
Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 49
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 2/3/2007 8:08:04 AM

It's NOT the US that invaded Iraq
It's NOT the US that won't admit it was wrong

It was George and Donald and Chaney.
THEY are NOT the US.

Over 70% of the US DOES NOT support him so please don't lump us all in with them.


It's the US military that supplied most of the troops, so I would say it is the US over in Iraq right now. To say otherwise is just splitting hairs. Bush went to war with overwhelming support for the congress, and even now they talk a lot of noise, but they are not acting to stop him from escalating the war even further.

The 70% that doesn't support him now are worse than the 30% who still do. The country went to war with the majority behind the idea and years later after the Iraqis decided to fight back do they have a change of heart. The ones who have a voice of dissent now are more to blame for this mess that the GOP since they gave their silent approval by not speaking out then.

Look at how many democrats are against this war now that voted for it years ago. As wrong as he is, Bush has atleast stuck to his position.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 50
view profile
History
Iraq in Fragments
Posted: 2/3/2007 9:00:57 AM

As wrong as he is, Bush has at least stuck to his position.


Yeah, you do certainly have to give the man credit for that.......
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