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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/16/2006 8:45:14 PM | Going back to the history of police in any modern state these are the following facts closely related to all police institutions:
- Police is there to protect the rich from the poor
- Police is the watchdog for maintaining internal social order and suppressing any political movements going out of hand
- occasionally police will arrest some criminals (mostly the not so well connected that cannot get away with it) to justify its purpose
all of the above three reasons contribute to my inherent dislike to police but I doubt the general public is aware of them. For them it's mostly the abuse of power and authority directly related to the uniform. Of course if they had read this thick volume of documented police brutality cases throughout the US that I happen to have read, I bet they would have shaken their heads and reaffirmed their dislike of police even more...
And to answer your question: A country with no police will be a country with alot less crime than any given modern county today. The reason for that is very simple, that society will not rely on brutal enforcement of unjust laws but on mutual agreement among its members on what is just and viable. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/16/2006 9:24:10 PM | I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but a society with no police or if you don't like the term "police" then "peacekeepers" is a society out of control where anarchy reigns. If you are so naive as to think that everyone will behave and everyone will mutually agree on anything, then you are deluding yourself. Yes, there are many good people in the world that only want to live their lives peacefully and get along with others, BUT, there are people in our world who prey on others that they consider weaker than themselves and they live by no law either moral or written. They care for no one but themselves and their desires, the only thing that they will "mutually agree" on is that they will TAKE whatever they want by whatever means they deem necessary.
There has to be someone... some group that will stand up to these people and tell them NO and have the strength and will to make the NO stick.
There are instances of police brutality and excessive use of force, strange that we hear of police brutality and are shocked and outraged, yet we hear of "CRIMINAL BRUTALITY" everyday and have little or no reaction. You can't overcome force by using EQUAL FORCE, you must use a level of force GREATER THAN that which you're trying to overcome. We are taught to use the MINIMUM amount of force NECESSARY to OVERCOME the resistance and the only person that can truely judge how much force is necessary is the person in the fray. Shooting an 11 year old for riding his bike on the wrong side of the street is excessive force without a doubt... shooting an 11 year old who has just tried to kill you with a shotgun is not excessive use of force again without a doubt. An officer MAY have much less than a second to make a life and death decision, not just to save his own life, but maybe yours too, shooting review boards, administrations, courts and citizens can analyze his actions at lesiure and in a stress free environment, they can all "monday morning quarterback" his actions and say what they would have done, but they weren't there in the fight, so, they don't know.
Police aren't perfect or above the law, we make mistakes and have bad judgement and even get out of control JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE....sometimes.
MOST cops go about doing the often thankless job that they have CHOSEN and listen to your complaints,curses,threats and other assorted bullsh!t.... and come back to do the same job again the next day. Before you throw stones or judge so harshly... how many of you would do the same under the same circumstances?????? | |
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LubDub
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Joined: 10/30/2006
Msg: 78 | |
| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 12:04:16 PM | i'm a law abiding citizen. i've never been in trouble a day in my life, but have gotten pulled over about 4 times. 3 of the 4 times i was treated like a criminal over nothing. once was for a cracked windshield which i was given a ticket in the amount of $40 for "defective equipment". the officer grilled me about my personal life. did i have a job, did i have children. not quite sure what that had to do with a cracked windshield, but figured it was best to keep my mouth shut at the time.
another time i got stopped for expired plates. i had the new tabs in place and a cancelled check showing that i had renewed, but since i didn't have a receipt from the DMV and was not in the computer when the officer ran my plates, he accused me of stealing the new tabs off someone else's car. i had to go to the DMV and buy a second set of tabs, plus a fee for renewing "late".
the third time i wasn't actually driving. i was with a friend who happens to be black. at the time he was pulled over, he was not doing anything illegal that we were aware of. when the officer walked up to his window, he made my friend stick both his hands out the window, then get out of the car. when we asked what he had done wrong, the officer wouldn't answer. he made my friend open his trunk so he could search it, then looked inside the interior of the car also, under the seats, in the glovebox, etc. when nothing was found, he got back in his patrol car and left. never a word of explanation.
on one more occasion i was ticketed for an "abandoned vehicle". i lived in an apartment complex and my car broke down. it took about 6 weeks to come up with the money to fix it, and i was taking the bus to work. the car was in the lot right in front of my apartment, and there was ample parking for everyone! it was a fully restored 1975 VW BUG in mint condition, so it was no eyesore either. when i got the ticket and called the police department to discuss my options, i was spoken to with great hostility, and told if i didn't move my car completely out of the lot within 48 hours it would be confiscated. i had to get some neighbors to push it 6 blocks up the street to a friend's house who let me park it in her driveway.
sorry Ben. in my experience, that's over a 75% rate of cops being d1cks for no reason. i appreciate their protection, and know their jobs can be really awful. but is this kind of bullying necessary? i absolutely agree that one must kill or be killed sometimes, but these examples are no FIGHT. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 12:09:28 PM | Unless you do their job, I dont think many of you have much to go on other than your stories. Cop bashing usually happens when people have a record. Like I said, you hate them til you need them.
I work with these men and women all the time... and newsflash people... they arent all the shmuck you are babbling off.
Stay within the laws and there is nothing to complain about. Until you walk a mile in their shoes, I dont think you have the right to bash them.
Again, there are losers in ANY career. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 12:29:38 PM | Technicaly, cops are divided in 2 gangs and the good gang is paying for the stupidities of the others!!!! all most like any other group.
There is those that are there to help the communities and hopefully make a diffrence to make a better world AND there are those that diverge into the POWER TRIPPERS.
I'v seen my share of power trippers and I have maybe 10 diffrent personal stories of those. for example:
After being asked for my papers in my car I asked the officer to tell me two of my rights that I should't have to ask for
1. can I know why you are pulling me over?
2. I do not see your name tag, could I know whats your name please?
Is answer was: well You did not put your signal light!!!! Heemmm, I always put my signal light when needed and any way where is car was parked he could't see if I had it or not and is light were on even before I started turning!!!
My answer was: I did put it officer.
is reply was: well i do not care, you are by yourself in your car, and we are two, guess how is going to win in court!!!!!!
bla bla bla .....
 If I did not had any control over my emotion I would of gotten out of the car and how knows what could of happened!!!! he he probably Jail
On top of that he never gave is Name,
OK maybe I was a bit arrogant but the thing is that I can't stand POWER TRIPPERS
The world is not perfect, the only thing is that when those bad ones comes up the only thing to do if you are by yourself is to not bother!!!! | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 12:51:56 PM | | Even though I haven't had any real problems with the police I think the justice system fu*kin blows and I throughly believe in frontier justice..So I probley would not call a cop either if a crime toward me or a family member or friend had already been committed I'd take care of the problem myself.. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 1:21:58 PM | ^^^ well after what happened in new orleans and the disturbing amount of people
that are being screwed by the system.
plus the increased penalties. things are going to go back to a form of frontier justice
IMO.
i heard some interviews on these child molesters about the amount of states that are
making it a death penalty offence.
well these people interviewed said the tougher sentences will cause these freaks to
kill thier victums to leave no witnesses.
the other thing that's being seen is bad people are not going to be taken alive. they
have no hope in a fair trial.
so the old western frontier justice and shoot outs are the future if something isn't done. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 4:03:28 PM |
People that hate cops are most often the ones the cops are looking for.
God-d@mn that's hot.  Anyway, I think older cops tend to get jaded and corrupted into thinking EVERYONE is bad. They deal with so many awful people that they tend to get a twisted view on reality.
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 4:26:59 PM | One of my experiences with a cop happened many years ago. An ex boyfriend and I were parked in a school parking lot late one night. I must have been only 17 or 18 years old at the time. Two cops in an unmarked car pulled up and demanded that we present some ID and then commenced to search his car.
Not only did they make us feel like criminals but I began to feel a little suspicious of them after the one cop insinuated that my boyfriend was a loser, and started making unnecessary comments for no apparent reason. The comments were very distasteful, especially the ones being directed towards my boyfriend. Neither one of us gave him a reason to be this way towards us, and we were fully cooperative. After extensive interrogation and unnecessary insults, I demanded to see a badge. He laughed at me and flashed it very quickly...I barely had a chance to see it. I mean anyone can flash a badge and call themselves a cop especially driving an unmarked car. I wanted to know that he was legitimate. I didn't think the badge was convincing enough and I told him that, so he insisted on showing me the inside of his car. I still didn't feel right about it but what could one do in a situation like that especially being at the age we were. It can be very intimidating. Overall, the way we were treated for doing nothing more than having a late night conversation in a parking lot was sick. (..and yes this is the truth which is a lot less than what most teens of today would be caught doing).
This hasn't been my only bad run in with them...and to some of the comments made in here, I do not have a criminal record (And YES once again, this is true). I have only had the experience of being disrespected by a cop, very much comparable to the way you would expect a criminal to be treated.
Many cops like to abuse their power and I will only give it the benefit of the doubt by saying that I think there may be a small percentage of good cops out there who are in it for the right reasons. As one poster mentioned earlier "cops are usually the people that were found beating on the other kids in school" and I highly agree. Infact I went to school with one of them.
I feel that many innocent people have been mistreated by cops who simply like to project their power because they know they can. Many cops are not to be trusted.
Oh, and to this comment made earlier
Police aren't perfect or above the law, we make mistakes and have bad judgement and even get out of control JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE....sometimes. More reason not to trust them. Some of those bad judgments revolve around shootings or beatings on innocent people. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 6:47:47 PM | Yes, there are many good people in the world that only want to live their lives peacefully and get along with others, BUT, there are people in our world who prey on others that they consider weaker than themselves and they live by no law either moral or written.
For a moment I thought you were talking about the police there because they fit to a T into the "bad guys" description. Not accidental that most of the police force is composed by either high school dropouts or army-dropouts. With a gun on my side and a license to kill granted to me by the state, I would definitely feel superior to others especially if my education ended somewhere in pre-high school years...
But the best way to prove my point is by example:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2662158&page=1
cops taser UCLA student because...he didn't show his ID... when a student asked one of the cops for badge number and name she was threatened to be zapped as well...
...to serve and protect indeed...
Go on now, explain to us the "bad apple" theory... | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 7:11:58 PM | | Everyone here knows what a nut I am over child molesters they start hunting kids over tougher penalities I get ahold of them they are gonna wish they got the gas chamber.. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 8:19:20 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In response to the above, I won't judge the actions taken by the officers in the school lot incident, I will say that the fact that they checked out the reason you were in the lot was probably just SOP and would happen any time an occupied vehicle was found in a school parking lot at night, as to their methods and attitude... I can't speak to that. As to my statement concerning bad judgement,mistakes and being out of control sometimes... as a citizen you have no idea what kind of call an officer answered prior to contacting you so you don't know his emotional state. Police are supposed to be able to handle all the stresses of the job, but again we are only human and we do have emotions too. For the most part we aren't allowed the luxury of leaving the job for a while in order to calm down and compose ourselves, we just have to suck it up and go on doing the job, we sometimes suffer from post traumatic stress too. I'm not making excuses, I'm giving possible reasons for the treatment you experienced, I'm also not making excuses for or condoning bad behavior. In reference to why you're sometimes pulled over for no apparant reason, let me try to explain the process I use in determining whether to make a stop: 1. I see a vehicle that causes me to be suspicious, this may not be a fully concious thought, but I have a "gut feeling" if you will that something just isn;t quite right. 2. I begin to more closely observe this vehicle in order to determin what "it" was that raised my suspicion (reasonable suspicion is the first element in establishing further action) 3. Assuming I have a reasonable suspicion of this vehicle or it's occupants, I begin to look for a reason to stop the vehicle, this is called "Probable Cause" and this is necessary to commit to action. Probable cause can be anything from a moving violation to an equipment violation or "furtive activity" within the vehicle by it's occupants. 4. Once I have established probable cause in my mind which I could ARTICULATE in court, I initiate the stop and contact the driver (NOTE: there is no such thing as a "ROUTINE TRAFFIC STOP" they are ALL dangerous and we are taught to treat them as such.)
As a citizen you don't know what information we have in regard to suspicious vehicles/persons, stolen vehicles, missing persons,known criminals, etc... we often see something that reminds us of something we've been told to watch for, so we check it out.
If you feel that you have been mistreated by a police officer or if he will not answer reasonable questions as to why he's doing something, please contact his supervisor or chief. We are held accountable for our actions and have to be able to justify them under existing laws.
As I've stated before, mistakes happen, but all cops aren't bad/evil/abusive/corrupt and society would be in a world of sh!t without their protection. You can't see how much crime is prevented by the presence/existence of police, you can only see the crimes we don't prevent. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 8:22:59 PM | All I can say in response to some of the posts is " Go ahead and hate us... we'll protect you even if you do." That's what seperates the good guys from the bad. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 9:17:57 PM | Thank You Angel, I try to follow the golden rule in all I do, I haven't always been successful, but if there has been a doubt in my mind about a person's guilt or innocense, I gave them the benefit of that doubt. I feel that if a person is a criminal, they aren;t going to stop being one unless and until someone stops them, so I will have other opportunities to stop them when doubt isn't present. I have lost a few cases in my career, but when you build a reputation of arresting only when the evidence justifies and only presenting GOOD SOLID cases to the court, you have no problems. I may not have everyone's respect, admiration or love, but everyone I've dealt with can say that I'm firm but fair. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/17/2006 10:26:52 PM | All I can say about the Police is......THANK YOU
You are a special group of people who will do whatever it
takes or whatever your allowed to do to save anyone.
You would risk your life to save a life if need be.
You would jump into a river to save someone from drowning.
You would deliver a baby if you had to.
You would protect a woman or man from a would be rapist.
You would take the time to talk with children about the dangers of drugs.
You would stay with someone while awaiting an ambulance after an accident.
You would protect a woman from an abusive man if you were called.
You would walk into a burning building to save someone while waiting for the fire engine.
You would try to talk someone out of suicide.
You would risk your life during a car chase to stop someone.
You would enter a building knowing it is about to collapse to save someone. (9/11)
This list could go on forever....and I hope you get my point. You go out everyday knowing
there are people out there who hate you, but you have a job. You will do everything in
your power/ability, within the limits of the law, to PROTECT US!
Because of this I am grateful and pray I never need your help again, but if I did....I know you'd be there with a call.
Be Safe and know that some of us appreciate all you do! | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/18/2006 12:56:02 AM | I don't hate cops... In fact, a great majority of them are great people and do their jobs quite well. The thing I don't like is the mentality that so many others have mentioned to this point.
My experience has been very negative though. I am a good man. I don't break the law if I can avoid it. And to be quite frank, avoiding it is very easy.
The negative will always outweight the positive though. Hence the reason that I see cops and instantly want to be in another place. They have the ability in places to arrest you for public intox on your own property. When you are not doing anything besides having a beer and a cig.
The beauty of the situation I speak of is that I was not tested. I was not even so much as asked how much I had that night. I was cuffed in front of several of my friends. Told that I was a "punk loser" and hauled off to spend a night in a very cold, very drafty, cell. And just to make it worse, they put the most gas ridden person in the world in the same cell with me.
Just to make things simple, I requested a test from the officer, and was told that he didn't have to give me a test by law. I requested one from the jail. They don't have the ability to administer tests at the jail. So I sat and was forced to pay $300 to get out of jail because some cop has a bad night and wants to push people around. This is the mentality that makes cops the bad guys. And to be quite frank, it is getting worse.
You want to talk about police state? We are getting damn close to one now because we give complete moral and political authority to a group of men and women who see it as their duty to pick up the pieces of society.
Here is what I want out of cops. Quit****ng around with a 0-5 over speeding ticket or a PI for sitting in your own yard smoking and having a beer, and start shooting the drug dealers. Start taking out the scum of society. I have lived in Texas for 7 months. In those 7 months, I have seen more crime than in my last 7 years. Maybe they should do something about that instead of slamming me into cars for having a beer and a cig.
God bless them, but God damn them too. I hate to say that, but it is true. I just wish that all were like the few that I know that have some sense of honor. This world would be a better place for it.
Rant done. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/18/2006 2:51:41 AM | | Man, I don't know what to say, I'm not sure what Texas law is on PI, but does Plano have a city ordinance concerning "open container" (or maybe the county although I've never heard of a county having such an ordinance), if so you can be arrested for that. In Alabama if you aren't committing "Disorderly Conduct" the state doesn't have a statute covering intoxication on your own property (disorderly conduct can ONLY be committed in a public place)(if you're arrested for DC, you can be charged with PI as well(contributing circumstance) ). The only alcohol related arrestable offense (traffic violation)on private property is DUI. I have ALWAYS given tickets STARTING at 15mph over the speed limit(unless environmental/weather conditions dictated otherwise.) IMO 5 or 10 mph over is sometimes hard to tell, but when you're passing everyone on the road, maybe you should at least glance at the speedometer. I just ask that you not hate all of us for the fuk ups of the comparatively few. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/18/2006 2:55:50 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By the way in most places there is no test required for public intoxication, that's usually used only for DUI detection/confirmation. I have used Field Sobriety Tests (FST) to determin a person's intoxication if I was unsure, but normally only to confirm my suspicions rather than to establish them. | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/18/2006 1:42:36 PM | I don't hate them all, I used to, but Ive come round. But I certainly don't trust them until they earn it. If that isnt fair, well so what, Ive seen a lot of them abusing their power. A 'few bad apples' in the police force isnt the same as a few bad apples in other occupations, because cops have the ability to destroy somebody's life just based on the cop's general dislike for that person. (Canadians will remember the Guy Paul Morin case; they thought he was weird because he lived with his mother, and kept beehives).
They DO get away with alot:
-they put their f'n hands on my sister when she was suicidal; the cop grabbed her around from behind and I saw his hands cup her breasts. I feel sick thinking about it.
Now how would anyone be able to prove this? It cant be proven, so he gets away with manhandling her when she needed help, and COPping a feel.
-I dont know how many times Ive seen cops act on 'racial profiling'. A store owner was standing outside the mall where he works waiting for his ride and the cops assume he's standing there pushing drugs. He's a black guy, so of course he's up to no good right? They handcuffed him, and took him to the station.
-A friend of mine who is also black is walking down the sidewalk in a wealthy white domiinated area and is harrassed by cops because he's black and must be up to something. Ive walked in that area lots of times and they dont bother me.
The incidents surrounding racial profiling are endless.
Ben Raines, I noticed that you referred to being seen as a 'hero' or a 'villian'. Youre just doing a job; youre paid to do it. What people think of cops has nothing to do with you personally. I think its obvious that the reason it bothers you is because of that 'gang mentality' cops have; by dissing a few we diss you all? That again is the "You Vs. Us" bully attitude that people dont trust.
I do have a question though, What made you decide to become a cop?
(And for those of you who dont understand where the anger or distrust comes from, consider yourself very lucky; because you are not immune to their abuse, and it may happen to you one day also, whether you do a crime or not) | |
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| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/18/2006 7:37:58 PM |
" Go ahead and hate us... we'll protect you even if you do."
Can I individually opt out of that "protection" program especially if it is the garden variety that will end up as another police brutality incident in the US?
Unfortunately not...oh dear me...now I have to be extra law abiding... | |
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ousu
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 98 | |
| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/19/2006 11:54:28 AM | This will sound evil but it is not meant to be like that:
Have you noticed any correlation in different societies between "hating police officers" and corruption rate? How police officer as a profession is rated on the list of dream professions is also interesting to read. In some countries it is not respected as a career, in some other countries a police officer is almost as "nice guy" as Father Christmas. | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 99 | |
| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/19/2006 12:07:35 PM |
In some countries it is not respected as a career, in some other countries a police officer is almost as "nice guy" as Father Christmas.
Exactly ... and it's not exactly limited to countries. Difference neighborhoods, different cities .. all have different cultures and history that effect the perception of the people. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 100 | |
| Why do so many people seem to hate cops?
Posted: 11/19/2006 12:45:34 PM | "I've seen good cops..........and bad cops. No matter how stressed a cop is; there is no excuse for treating someone badly; or abusing power." That was told to me by a friend who has been in the RCMP for 23 years......most of that time undercover. Her husband is a city cop.
btw.........to those who defend the bad cops by saying that people who complain are criminals..........I've never even had a speeding ticket! Here in BC; there is a public uproar over a city cop getting a promotion even though her drivers license has been suspended due to an accident caused by her driving at 3 times the legal limit!!.........now that doesn't exactly help people feel good towards cops. | |
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