| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:36:19 AM | I've heard many times that babies stand a better chance being born at seven months, rather than in the eighth month. She stands a good chance. an angel to watch over her. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:39:35 AM | | i think it depends on the indervidual,in my opinion not every prem baby is the same,some babys born 12 wk early weigh more than outhers born that early and therfor have more chance of serviving,and im sorry to say this and i no it would be hard to do in that situation but you have to think long term,and how it may affect outher children you may have already,looking after a disabled child is hard and its even harder when you have outher kids to look after to.they may feel negalcted and start to resent the time you spend with the child. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:41:58 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^ aww thank you, i will take that angel  my son just rang and everythings ok, i can`t go and see her yet, as only the parents are allowed at this time. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:26:51 AM | From what I understand, Doctors will give any baby born at a viable or slightly less than viable age a chance by giving life support. But to see how they cope, they are very vunerable to infections and it can be a roller coaster. To try and prolong a life that is continually ebbing away is torture for both parents and child. We cannot replicate life in the womb of the funtcions of the placenta.
On a slight tangient,I still think we need to look at alternative/complimentary ways of looking after preemies. A plactic incubator filled with wires and tubes is not the babies natural environment and although its th best we can do to preserve the babies life, it can actually be detrimental to seperate the baby from its mother. Not just socially. but on a health and life scale too.
Anyone interested should google 'Kangaroo care'. I researched into this for my final project last year. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:59:20 AM | ^^ had a look at the Kangaroo Mother Care site, it does look at better way to care for the babies that are fit/strong enough to be handled. Good for the mother too, I should imagine, the contact with her baby will help stabilise hormones etc.
The sad fact is that babies born so early(pre 22/23 weeks) have very little chance of survival, even if everything possible is done to save them. The harsh fact is, is that the only place that can give them the things they need is the womb. Until we can replicate that we can't save them.
Is it fair to to take invasive and painful action, to separate the child from it's mother so that it dies in pain and surrounded by machines? Or would the best course of action be to give palliative care and allow the baby to slip away in the arms of it's mother, thus allowing both of them some time together?
Obviously the parents and the medics would want the baby to survive, who wouldn't? But we're just not capable of that yet. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:43:04 AM | I suspect this already happens quite a lot due to a shortage of the specialist equipment needed to keep them alive? Maybe this is just to formalise and prioritise what's already happening. Babies born a good deal later than this are being lost due to lack of resources.
I suspect it's to ration the incubators eyc so that those babies born at say 28 -30 weeks are all given a fair crack at the whip, and that the incubator spaces are not hogged by those who are likely to die anyway.
Cruel yes, but in reality many premature babies are routinely moved to hosptials hundreds of miles away from their homes just to secure a space in SBU. Either massive investment is needed or we have to have a fair cut off point for the extremley expensive equipment and specialist nursing care needed.
Although this policy sounds cruel I suspect it's to save many more babies lives overall than is currently the case. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:15:59 AM | Miss Stevie G - Congratulations on the birth of your granddaughter!
Twelve weeks is very early but she has an excellent chance of growing to be a happy healthy child...it just takes a little while longer. Almost two pounds is not a bad weight.
Time to dig out the knitting needles and produce some (tiny) bootees while you are waiting.
All the best. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:42:18 AM | | miss 12 weeks early nowadays isnt too bad, baby should be fine, my sisters baby was 10 weeks early and didnt need a ventilator and is 6 now, you would never know she was a preemie, when i was pregnant with my son, who is now 2 and a half, i went to blackpool zoo for the day and ended up in hospital having emergency surgery, i was 22 weeks pregnant and ended up with a strangulated hernia, i was told that there hospital policy was not to help babies born under 24 weeks, i was 10 days off,and was told that with it being abdominal surgery that there was a chance he could be born..........we knew he was a he, he had a name and to be told there was a chance he would be born and they wouldnt do a damn thing to save him because i was 10 days away from their policy was the single most horrifying thing i have ever been through. luckily surgery went well and he was evicted from me at 39 weeks! i beleive it should be up to the parents and doctors to make such a desision. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:18:57 AM | | all babies born early should have all the treatment to help them live.but not all will live .there are a lot of problems with early births. and late birth too. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 5:20:42 AM |
I suspect this already happens quite a lot due to a shortage of the specialist equipment needed to keep them alive? Maybe this is just to formalise and prioritise what's already happening. Babies born a good deal later than this are being lost due to lack of resources.
That was why Kangaroo care was 'invented' in Bogota, Colombia as a response to lack of medical resources to treat these tiny babies. The death rate there dropped from 70% to 30%.
When its been trialled in Amercia, it was established that Kangaroo care improves prem babies hratrate, respiration rate, breathing, blood pressure, they feed and put weight on better and they sleep better. In some places even really sickly unstable babies have been kangarooed and shown dramatic improvement.
Anyway.... enough of my waffle... resources could be the reason as to why these new guidelines have been given. Anything that will lessen the chance of a poorly baby having to be trasnported hundreds of miles is a good thing. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:25:13 AM | ^^^^^^ Then damn well roll it out then right across the UK!^^^^^^^
We shouldn't giving new borns lesser care than they'd get in the 3rd world ffs! it sounds like the handwashing/hospital infection debacle all over againb If there's a way of saving these babies without spending £100Ks on each we should be implementing it NOW, instead of just leaving them to die.
I've heard such heart rending stories through my charity work, and one of my mates lost a 22 weeker earlier this year - I can't even begine to imagine the pain she's gone thru.
I really hope your grandchild pulls through! | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/16/2008 6:43:11 AM |
^^^^^^ Then damn well roll it out then right across the UK!^^^^^^^
I couldn't agree more but doctors are so reluctant to implement something as simple as putting a child on its Mothers breasts, it somehow doesn't seem 'technical' enough. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/17/2008 3:20:37 AM | | thank you for your comments, the baby is being breast fed, so thats the best medicine for immune system etc, she`s extracting it into cup then baby is fed, they named her ella, this is my first grandchild , i know she will spend a lot of time in the hospital and can`t wait to see her, the`re taking pics of her today to show me, where would i get baby clothes for prem babies? | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/17/2008 3:38:22 AM | Mothercare is good...expensive but really really cute!!!
Adams might be worth checking out....and I have a feeling Asda are now doing an early baby range too.
I think SCBUs do like a diary thing tha they write in how well the baby has done today tc...and I think parents can write in it. But might be an idea to buy them a keepsake type of book that they can stick photos in and write their feelings down. It can be a roller coaster so writing things down might help plus its a memento for when Ella is older.
The usual baby books are not really worded for prem babies as its all based on a 'normal' full term delivery... but you might even find something online?? | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/17/2008 11:24:02 AM | | adams also do a good range of preemie stuff ,at a lot of hospitals with neonatal units often have the wrvs knitting little outfits for sale at really low cost or if you dont mind recycling try ebay they will have loads! breast milk is the best for her so congratulate her mummy! it may be a while before she suckles direct(my preemie neice took 4 weeks to take from the breast direct) congratulations on her birth sounds like shes doing well! | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/17/2008 2:20:09 PM | To perhaps defend Starthawk's position a little, it is possible to keep a human body alive long after it has the ability to sustain itself. Beyond the point where it is a viable organism.
At this point, somebody has to make a difficult choice. I think many parents would hang on to the hope that their baby can survive beyond the point where keeping it alive is fair.
The term cabbage is offensive though if you replaced it with the precise medical term the point would still be the same. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/17/2008 3:50:23 PM | I am involved in many prem deliveries and every effort is made to transport them in utero if at all possible to an area of specialist care. For those who do not manage it then a team is brought to the hospital to transport them to the nearest neonatal intensive care unit. All parents are involved every step of the way.
Every birth is treated on an individual basis, technology improves yearly and as others have told us some survived years ago with little of the equipment we have now ! I recall my ex mother in law telling me of a family member who was born at 31 weeks at home and never went to hospital and survived and that was 70+ years ago !
Decisions about which gestation of baby to keep alive are not for politicians to make, what we need from them is more specialist nurses and funding to keep cot spaces available !
I suppose with this argument a discussion should be reviewed on the abortion time limit, it seems absurd that we can be trying to keep 24 weekers alive in one area and terminating them in another ! | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/18/2008 3:11:46 AM | Also check out ebay for prem clothes.
I put all my prem baby clothes up and the proceeds went to the Tiny Lives Foundation. I think Macro do a range of prem clothes where a percentage of the sale price goes to Bliss. (at least they did when my youngest was a newborn). Also check with the hospital, many keep a stock of tiny baby clothes that can be purchased from them at small cost..
Things that are harder to come by in prem sizes are scratch mits and hats. Luckily grandma was a knitter.
As for not going all out to save a 22weeker. There has to be a line drawn when it comes to viability. I've sat by the incubator of a 25weeker and watched him fight a losing battle. He was classed as the on the edge of viability. His chances of survival would a have doubled if he had been 26weeks. His lungs, despite two doses of steriods pre delivery, just weren't developed enough to cope. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/18/2008 3:26:16 AM | Bliss the premature children's charity has armies of lovely ladies who knit for them. If you call the parents helpline they should be able to put you in touch with a source of the clothes.
The patterns are designed not just to be small but to suit the needs of the nurses minding the babies (so easy to take on and off etc). As I understand it the patterns are developed by including the opinions of SBCU nurses.
Here's the link to the site www.bliss.org.uk | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/18/2008 3:31:47 AM | my nephew was born at just over 22 weeks. He died in his mothers arms with the rest of the family in the room.
it was simply the most heart breaking thing i have ever experienced and something i will never ever forget.
he was smaller than the palm of my hand, his skin was translucent and his mouth smaller than the tip of my pinky.
Whilst it was tragic i do belive that there has to be a cut off point. We have many medical advances and each of them can create 'miracles'. That being said nature also has a part to play and we need to respect that.
I wish all wanted babies could survive, but that is not going to happen. There has to be a cut off point.
Lou
xx | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 5/28/2008 8:29:46 AM | | i think at what ever stage they are born at they should still have every chance at life, no one has the right to hold that babys life in their hands, unless of course they are really suffering and in pain which if it was my child would break my heart, but on the other side of the coin you would also not want to let go and would want your baby to fight on. its defo a hard one. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 6/10/2008 4:44:07 AM | Back in the early 80's and before there was guidelines that doctors had to follow in order to start treatment on premmie's. I'm not sure what ALL of the guidelines were, but the baby had to meet at least one to be considered for treatment. Some of them included being a certain length, a certain weight, etc.
I grew up with a girl that met none of those guidelines. The only way the doctor justified treating her was by bending her foot completly straight, so that she would meet the length requirement. If he would not have done that, they would have handed her to her mom and let her die.
At 6 years old, this girl was running around reading the Wall Street Journal to my mom when she would watch her. Very intelligent child. Genius even.
Sure, not all kids turn out like that....but how does anyone know what the future holds? I know when my daughter was born at 28 weeks and dropping down to 1 lb 10 oz, I had an option to sign a DNR. I didn't sign it. Why? Because IF my daughter would have died a week, a day, 5 days, or whatever later after her birth...at least I can say that the I allowed the doctors to try and save her.
But, then again, I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. If the baby is meant to die, the baby will die regardless of what life saving treatments are given.
So, what's the hurt in at least trying???
To the one who just had a grandbaby...You are probably familiar with things now at the NICU, but if you ever need to bounce thoughts off of anyone, I'm around...just message me. My little girl is 6 months old now and is just loves to coo and is such a little ham!!
~Welder's girl~ | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 6/10/2008 7:44:26 AM | Feel very torn by this thread, as a mum who has had 2 miscarriages, 1 at a stage where the child may have lived now, I want all babies to be at least given the chance to live. I often wonder how my wee angels would have turned out especially compared the two blessings I have now, but I think as an earlier post touched on, quality of life must be a consideration in attempts to save the lives of very early babies. I think that the medico's are in the best position to give an opinion on the chances of a premature infant surviving and difficult as it is we should defer their judgement. Again however I agree with Welders girl, some wee people are just meant to be here and they overcome enormous odds to live. Anyway just my 2p worth. Must have a nosey at this Kangaroo watcha me call it, sounds excellent. | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 6/10/2008 7:58:53 AM |
Decisions about which gestation of baby to keep alive are not for politicians to make, what we need from them is more specialist nurses and funding to keep cot spaces available !
I suppose with this argument a discussion should be reviewed on the abortion time limit, it seems absurd that we can be trying to keep 24 weekers alive in one area and terminating them in another !
I do agree that more NICU nurses are needed as well as funding for NICU units. My daughter had to have a special tube...smaller than what most hospitals are equipped for. She was being moved to a NICU anyways...but finding a NICU that had this special tube was tough for the doctors. The only hospital that had them...there beds were full. No other hospital in our state had them. So, what ended up happening was that one baby at UNC-CH had to be transferred elsewhere so that my daughter could have it's bed. Which, I'm sure they didn't move a baby that was not medically OK to be in a Level 2 facility...but still. They really shouldn't have had to move that baby at all.
And even tho this isn't an abortion thread...I'll post my 2 cents here. #1. Only under extreme circumstances should a woman have an abortion (rape, etc). But see, the thing is...after a woman is raped she should be given the morning after pill. That way there is really no need for an abortion. #2. Women that elect to have abortions without extreme circumtances present, should be required to undergo either tubal litigation or a hysterectomy. That way there won't be anymore 'mistakes'.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| Premature babies may be left to die
Posted: 6/11/2008 11:43:19 PM | | just to let you all know, i buried my prescious little ella yesterday, she had a heart attack and couldn`t be revived, her oxegen levels fell below 30 and she would have been brain dead if she had lived, they tried for revive her for half an hour, i got to hold her when she was dead and it looked like she was just sleeping, so perfectly formed and tiny, my son carried her wee coffin in both arms, such a moving and heart breaking sight, she will live on in our memories forever, the joy of her birth and the sadness of her death, i get hope that she lives on in gods mind and we will see her again one day. | |
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