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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/7/2008 3:11:49 PM | | Ok so heres the deal he's going to have to wait it out with the bad jobs. Sorry thats just how it is. Some choices have reoccuring effects. But the good news is that if he keeps a good work and social record in a few years he will be able to upgrade. Its going to be a hard road but if he truely wants to be on the up and up this will definately test his metal. Also it never hurts to get education. There are plenty of corrispondence schools that are affordable. And with his income he might be able to qualify for student loans. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/7/2008 6:03:00 PM | lol@ pasquel...yeah...at least I know where the wolves are!
Why not join the army? It instills a sense of "honour" and "teramwork" into people. I've seen interviews with crewmembers off a carrier...a lot of them from "nowhere", inner city people who felt they had "no options" and such...a lot say it was the best thing they ever did. Yes...some did have records...but, it worked for them in a lot of cases.
Some states, even the judges tell the convicted "Army or time in the pen...your choice".
They do keep a good eye on people in there...I now...been there myself.
Just cause someone made a bad choice in their younger days doesn't mean they can't rise above it...and the army would be a good start for anyone.
remember...it takes 10 personelle to keep one in the field...so lots of jobs never see a battleground. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:34:43 PM | thank you Ima!!!!
OP- I've encountered many difficulties due to having a felony record. But as other posters have mentioned...the whining and complaining doesn't help anything. It only makes it worse. I can't even begin to tell you all the problems I had just getting into community college...and my charges are not violent or even drug related. And I was only going for an Associates degree. It didn't even matter that I had scored a 1475 (out of 1600) on my SAT's or that I was in all AP classes in high school with a 5.8 (adjusted) GPA. Didn't matter a bit. But I kept pushing through the 'system' and eventully had to talk to the Dean myself and plead my case. It's not easy...but it's not impossible for him to find a job. Again...there are resources out there, you just have to know where to look. The ESC, as I mentioned, has a few resources available....free. There are also employers that will give felons a chance. Word of mouth is usually how you find out about them. My dad owns his own business. 30 years ago he was convicted of some felonies and knows what it is like to jump through the system. At one point, only 2 employees out of 20 were NOT felons. The rest were. Including me. Luckily, my dad has never had major issues with any of his employees.
YNA...here in the states, if you are a convicted felon you cannot join any branch of the military. However, there have been cases where the judge ordered that the person join the military instead of going to prison.
Pasquel....although they aren't allowed to join the forces...I think that felons should be allowed to. Most felons have a low level of education, have little or no work experience, have no sense of stability in their lives, and have no sort of structure in their lives. Alot of inmates do fine in prison....why? Because they have a set schedule, they are told what to do and how to do it, they are 'disciplined'. Just like a lot of employers, the military is quick to 'shun' us felons. Although it is wrong, most people revert back to a life of crime because after being turned down, and turned down, and turned down some more they feel like they are out of options. You can't exactly pay your bills if you can't find a job...so what do they do? They go and do what they know. Sad, but true.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/8/2008 2:58:24 AM |
Pasquel....although they aren't allowed to join the forces...I think that felons should be allowed to. Most felons have a low level of education, have little or no work experience, have no sense of stability in their lives, and have no sort of structure in their lives. Alot of inmates do fine in prison....why? Because they have a set schedule, they are told what to do and how to do it, they are 'disciplined'. Just like a lot of employers, the military is quick to 'shun' us felons. Although it is wrong, most people revert back to a life of crime because after being turned down, and turned down, and turned down some more they feel like they are out of options. You can't exactly pay your bills if you can't find a job...so what do they do? They go and do what they know. Sad, but true.
There is a lot of truth above. The military offers a structure and clearly defined "boundaries" beyond the scope of a traditional job. Not every felon would be a viable military candidate though. While the recidivism rate is high for felons, still using difficulty finding work is an excuse. At some point they have to take personal responsibility even when its uncomfortable, independent of reliance on someone else to do it for them, if they want a better life. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/8/2008 4:36:47 AM | Why not join the army? It instills a sense of "honour" and "teramwork" into people. I've seen interviews with crewmembers off a carrier...a lot of them from "nowhere", inner city people who felt they had "no options" and such...a lot say it was the best thing they ever did. Yes...some did have records...but, it worked for them in a lot of cases.
Why not join the Army? Because he can't. The military will not accept a convicted felon. There is one thing that almost every convicted felon has in common. A history of poor judgment. In America, it is illegal for a convicted felon to own a firearm or even live in the same house with one. In the Army, they will be issued firearms.
Some states, even the judges tell the convicted "Army or time in the pen...your choice".
At one point in time this was common practice. I haven't heard of this scenario happening in at least 15 years. But even if it did still happen there is one problem to consider. When a judge tells someone that they can make a choice between jail or the military, they are not labeled as a felon if they choose the military. The reason is because they would not be accepted into the military as a felon. Once the person becomes a convicted felon (as the OP's boyfriend has), they will not be accepted into the military.
You say that you couldn't trust a convicted felon with a quarter of a million dollar dump truck. So how can you trust them with a weapon and national security? Tax payers not only pay for dump trucks, but also for every piece of equipment the military has.
Alot of inmates do fine in prison....why? Because they have a set schedule, they are told what to do and how to do it, they are 'disciplined'.
The military doesn't want someone who will conform to a disciplinary schedule. They want someone who has self discipline and who will set an appropriate schedule for themselves. The way you dictate your life outside of your command is just as important (if not more important) than how you accept dictation while you are with your command.
When I was in the Marines, one of my Master Sergeants told me something that I still hold as truth today. Integrity isn't doing the right thing. Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching. The fact is, most convicted felons have questionable integrity. No felon committed a crime and wanted to get caught. This military is looking for someone who keeps their nose clean because it's the right thing to do, not someone who keeps their nose clean because they are afraid of the consequences.
Questionable integrity
Proven history of poor judgment
Lack of self discipline
Disregard for rules and authority
Untrustworthy
Most felons have at least one of these traits. These are all traits that the military can do without. So even though there are some felons out there who might do well in the military. The risk is far too great. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/8/2008 6:42:36 AM | | I have only read the first post here and I'm sure someone has mentioned this but I'm too lazy to check. So I'll make this simple. Most americans (probably all) don't want the jobs the illegals aliens are getting. They are getting paid less than mininum wage and no insurance. Thank God. Do you know how much a head of lettuce would be if the guy picking it wanted $15/ hour plus benefits? Also, depending where you live you can find your local Sheriff's Office or Court system and they will normally have some sort of reentry porgram that helps convicted felons find jobs. Here in Broward County Florida they have something called WorkForce One. I think it may even be a Federal program. They have a list of companies that hire felons and have job posting from companies that are looking for reformed convicts to work. When I say work I mean jobs that are careers. WorkForce One will even send you to a trade school of your choice FOR FREE! Eeryone gets approved. Unless you make $100,000 year and clearly don't need the free schooling. Hope this helps. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/8/2008 9:41:36 AM | msg#45,imalitltpot:I wouldn't hire your boyfriend (or you) simply because your spelling and grammar are horrible. If the job application looked anything like your posts on here, or you interviewed as carelessly as you write, you'll never get a job. Most jobs doesn't require someones gammar/spelling to be proper. An I had no problem decifering anything he/she (welder)said. Maybe my spelling/grammars horrible too as you say. I would guess that the biggest reason you would not hire him/her is because you most likely don't have the qualifications to hire or fire anyone. I'm guessing you would hire the illegal alien that possibly doesn't read or speak English. This is a public forum,not a spelling/grammar contest. I would hire who ever was best for the job and could read and speak English and pays taxes like Americans are supposed to. Identity theift is a crime too.Everyone deserves a fair chance no mater what kind of trouble they have been into. My outlaw buddies are good workers and dependable. (Tpot kan u due a speel chek poleeze?) | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/8/2008 10:12:53 AM | Guy...silly goose! Thanks for adding me to your favorites....and tpot said that she would hire ME. ;) But not the others. And she does have a valid point though....companies, especially smaller, privately owned ones want their employees to be a good representation of what they are about. If someone were to walk into my dad's office and I greeted them like :'Wut up? You lookin fo some work to be done?' instead of 'Welcome to __________, how can I help you?' then that person would probably thing the whole company is a bunch of hooligans.
BUT....again, I think it all comes back to education. Most prisoners/ex-cons/whatever you want to call them....have very substandard educations. And sadly they won't learn much by going to prison except how to boost cars or cook meth. I do think it is important for a company to maintain a 'neat appearance'. Hope that makes sense.
Now, see, that was part of the problem I had at first. Even though I was working for my dad I was looking for another job b/c I felt like he was just doing me a favor and I wanted to make it on my own...I didn't want to have to rely on mommy and daddy to 'fix' things for me. I'd already put them through enough, so I felt that looking for another job was a good idea. I remember one interview....the guy even told me that I was the most qualified interviewee for the job. The 1st interview he didn't ask about a past record. The 2nd one....he did. I was honest about it and he got this god-awful look on his face like I just tried to kill him or something. And all he could say was 'Well, thank you for your time'. And I actually knew the girl that got the position and she was fired after 3 weeks due to poor job performance. Now, if that guy would have given me the job, I'd probably still be working there to this day. But, such is life.
Here is the other thing that kind grinds my nerves also....alright, say someone is convicted of stealing money. They try to get a job, as say, a feeder at a plywood plant. They are turned down b/c of the felony. Now....how in the world is that person going to steal $$$ at a plywood plant? I can understand them being turned down for a job at a bank, etc. But, a factory job? Come on.
RSwindol....I'm still formulating my thoughts on your last post. I agree with you on some aspects and disagree with you on others...just trying to get it all straight in my head before I reply.
~Welder's Girl~ | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:31:18 AM | If I were in the position to hire or fire someone, I would absolutely take grammar into consideration. While it has been proven that poor spelling isn't necessarily an indication of intelligence, grammar definitely is. And yes, I would take into consideration that most immigrants into this country are learning English as their second language. I know what it's like to learn a second language and I commend them for their efforts.
In my opinion, someone who has learned English as a second language should not have a better understanding of the language than someone who has used it their entire life. It just goes to show how lazy people can be. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/9/2008 9:44:06 AM |
Now....how in the world is that person going to steal $$$ at a plywood plant?
Stealing "product" and reselling cents on the dollar for one thing. Yes, even plywood (especially in a hurricane area where hunkering down can get quite costly). Is it a fair presumption that a convicted felon is a greater hiring risk than someone with a clean record? Maybe or maybe not - yet in time and keeping one's act clean as a whistle, that felon can reestablish reputation and credibility.
Look at it from the employer's perspective. Integrity is a serious consideration when hiring someone. A record of conviction for a felony tells the potential employer that at least once, the applicant the person proved to be less than trustworthy vs. the probability that the person with no criminal record has integrity and is therefore likely the more trustworthy.
So there is a known risk versus an unknown risk (as that with an applicant with no record). Comparable to decisioning whether someone is credit worthy via a credit bureau report. By the way, most bank employee defalcation is not currency walking out the door, contrary to what some may believe.
BUT....again, I think it all comes back to education. Most prisoners/ex-cons/whatever you want to call them....have very substandard educations. True and I would venture to say that a number of them have unidentified learning challenges that contributed. However, from what I am given to understand from the DOC in my area, the opportunity to at least get a GED is provided.
On the posters who made mention of language skills, the only time IMO and IME that language skills should be a consideration for employment is if strong language skills are an essential element of the job. Some jobs, it's not so critical a skill. That same perceived weakness can also be a strength. I've hired many individuals with limited ability to articulate English as a second language and never regretted hiring any of them. Not a one - consumer banking environment with high customer contact.
As for the OP's BF, he has to keep the expectations realistic also. Whatever job may be out there isn't going to be top pay so it's not even rational to expect more than grunt work so to speak getting started. One thing that is certain doom is carrying a victim attitude in one's thinking to a job interview as it absolutely will come out in the non-verbal communication skills. Plus, there is also stepping out of the box. Heck many a landscaping business, as one example, as started up by cutting a few lawns. Great exercise too!
Oh, and if "illegal" aliens are in fact filling the jobs in place of felons? I would seriously question the integrity of the hiring business to start with. Certainly not a good employment risk for a convicted felon trying to reestablish himself (or herself). | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/9/2008 1:43:03 PM | The French Foreign Legion most definitly exists and from what i understand they will take you as long as you are not wanted for cetain crimes by Interpol. They don't really tell anyone which crimes they frown upon but you will have to find that out for yourself. They actually change your name if you have a shady past. You become someone new. The old you drops off the face of the planet. You don't your real name back until you finish 5 years of service. I don't think you can leave France for around 3 years. Your life is commited to the Legion. You are now hidden from the world. You learn to speak French fluently and it is all you speak while addressing commanding staff. Use this web address for more info. It is the Legions offiicial site. ( did you know it is against French law for the Legion to advertise in France) This I believe is true due to anyone of French citizinship may not join the Legion.
http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/ | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/9/2008 2:11:55 PM |
did you know it is against French law for the Legion to advertise in France
Actually, they have a workaround for that under "declared identity". However, looks like they haven't progressed to considering women but it would be a possible option for a convicted male felon. Frankly, it could just be a viable alternative to a convicted felon who is not employable. Only who pays the plane fare to get him there? | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/9/2008 3:08:01 PM | I supplied the official French Foreign Legion webpage to answer all of your questions. Just in case you could not find it here is the link to where you can enlist.
http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/ou.php
Also, a French citizen must give up his citizenship while enlisted and the Legion does not like doing it. I also forgot that once you have completed your 5 year contract you are eligable to become a citizen of France. As long as you pay your back taxes you would then owe. | |
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| why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 7/12/2008 7:02:33 PM |
Yes...some did have records...but, it worked for them in a lot of cases.
Some states, even the judges tell the convicted "Army or time in the pen...your choice".
They do keep a good eye on people in there...I now...been there myself.
Back in the days of Nam maybe, but a felon can not get into the Army now. Back then they use to smoke dope openly and get rip roaring drunk and trash High Street at Ft Bragg, but that has all changed over the last couple decades. Today if you are an E-4 or below you get to go through a year of Hell, but you can stay in. If you get a second conviction you're out. If you are an officer or an NCO, one drug or alcohol related conviction and you're out. No questions asked, no excuses accepted, you're just s**ks to be you gone. You get a felony while in and you can pretty much kiss the Army good by.
Misdemeanor sure, felony NO! Today's Army requires a high amount of responsibility and integrity. We have too much high tech equipment and powerful weaponry to trust to a felon. When the S**t hits the fan you have to know that the guy beside you is honest, trustworthy, well trained, and will fight by your side without hesitation. The other soldiers have to know they can trust you, that you'll watch their back the way they'll watch yours. I don't know when you were in the Army, but it wasn't recently.
Felons can not enter the Army unless a recruiter lies on the paperwork and THAT will end badly for the recruit and the recruiter, because we will find out.
Another thing that's changed since you've been in, the front line,...there isn't one anymore. Your job is irrelevant, as far as seeing combat in today's Army. I'm a woman, most of the units I was a part of were the type that would have never seen combat 20 years ago. Just doesn't work that way anymore. You deploy, you're going to see combat. | |
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