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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 26 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 5:39:18 PM |
A little helper in regards to intelligent discourse: "come on" is a phrase used by elementary school children.
Example: "Come on, mom, just five more minutes, PLEASE ?"
Sorry ... I thought I was talking to an elementary school child. Just wanted to keep it simple.
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 6:07:28 PM | Coalition
Here is a partial list of the countries involved in the second Gulf War.
Afghanistan No data found
Albania 120 soldiers
Angola No data found
Australia 1,500 military personnel in and around Iraq
Azerbaijan 150 soldiers
Bulgaria *2005 Withdrawal
Colombia No data found
Costa Rica No data found
Czech Republic 96 soldiers
Denmark 515 soldiers
Dominican Republic *2004 Withdrawal
El Salvador 380 soldiers
Eritrea No data found
Estonia 35 soldiers
Ethiopia No data found
Georgia 300 soldiers
Honduras *2004 Withdrawal
Hungary *2004 Withdrawal
Iceland *2004 Withdrawal
Italy *2006 Withdrawal
Japan *2006 Withdrawal
Kuwait No data found
Latvia 136 soldiers
Lithuania 50 soldiers
Macedonia 33 soldiers
Marshall Islands No data found
Micronesia No data found
Mongolia 131 soldiers
Netherlands *2005 Withdrawal
Nicaragua *2004 Withdrawal
Palau No data found
Panama No data found
Philippines *2004 Withdrawal
Poland 900 soldiers
Portugal *2005 Withdrawal
Romania 890 soldiers
Rwanda No data found
Singapore *2004 Withdrawal
Slovakia 110 soldiers
Solomon Islands No data found
South Korea 2300 soldiers
Spain *2004 Withdrawal
Turkey No data found
Uganda No data found
Ukraine *2005 Withdrawal
United Kingdom 7200 soldiers
United States As of October, 2006, there were around 140,000 Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps personnel in West, North and Central Iraq [6]. As of 19 November, 2006 2,866 American military personnel from every branch of the US military have been killed in Iraq: 2,308 in engagements and ambushes (assault rifle and sniper fire; RPG, Katyusha and mortar attacks; the shooting down of several helicopters and a jet; but mostly roadside bombings) as well as vehicle accidents which occurred as a result of hostile fire. 558 were killed in non-hostile incidents including a small number of drownings, illnesses, electrocutions etc, but mostly accidental vehicle crashes and weapon discharges. At least 21,678 American military personnel have been wounded in action. One soldier, Matt Maupin, was kidnapped after an attack on his convoy on April 9, 2004 and remains missing.[7][8] Another soldier, Ahmed Qusai al-Taei, an Iraqi-American, was kidnapped on October 24, 2006 while visiting Baghdad and also remains missing.
Countries not listed on your list but data found.
Canada *2006 Withdrawal
Norway *2004 Withdrawal
New Zealand *2004 Withdrawal
Tonga *2004 Withdrawal
Armenia 46 soldiers
Bosnia 36 soldiers
Moldova 12 soldiers
Kazakhstan 29 soldiers
Thailand *2004 Withdrawal
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 28 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 6:25:05 PM | You said the rest of the world does not consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization.
6 countries in the world classify Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization", the rest do not.
That's less than 3% of sovereign nations.
Arri ... The left has been saying no one has supported the war.
Which ever partisan label you want to adopt (or hurl as a fallacious epithet), world "support" for the war and occupation of Iraq is definitely in the minority, whether you go by Ipsos Reid, Angus Reid, Ecko, et al.
It started out at less than 50% world-wide when it started, and has been dropping ever since.
As far as the US is concerned here's the figures from a poll released Nov. 8
Which comes closest to your view? The U.S. should continue fighting the war in Iraq using the same military strategy and tactics it is using now; or The U.S. should continue fighting the war in Iraq by need to change its strategy and tactics; or The U.S. should remove all its troops from Iraq.
Continue strategy - 8%
Change strategy - 61%
Should not be in Iraq - 27%
Not sure - 4%
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 1,084 American adults, conducted from Oct. 27 to Oct. 31, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 6:38:07 PM |
you're the one that wanted to trace this menace fallacy back in time before modern history, ....not me.
Actually, I traced it back to a time when there were lots of Christians LIVING in the Middle East. It wasn't that long ago, and the cases I spoke of were directly related to an agenda of genocide that has continued to this day. They were not western people. Have you ever heard of the B'hai? Look at their history. It's not the distant past. The Inquisition is.
And, you are saying that it's the religion that causes this, not the collective behaviour conditioning of over 3/4 century of abuse?
Why are there parts of the world (absent of this corporate rape by proxy) where people were getting along, and centuries of Jew, Christian, and Islam existing without problems in the "holy lands", ...under a Muslim Empire?
Are they getting along in Kasmir? Were they getting along in Afghanistan under the Taliban? Taliban was their model for statehood, and it had a few religious overtones, wouldn't you say? Is that too far back for you to call modern times? I haven't seen too many knights of the inquisition lately. You protest this too much, so I suppose you do consider the inquisition
Cotter,
I have worked with Muslims for years ... not a single one of them has ever uttered a single word about trying to convert me.
I met a lot of Germans, and none of them ever suggested that we kill the Jews.
It doesn't surprise me that you haven't met any Christians who were forced to leave the Middle East. I haven't met many Jews that Hitler put into the gas chambers, but I don't deny that it occurred. Look at the history of Pakistan. Do you think the Muslims and Hindus just changed sides of the border on exceedingly friendly terms? Sorry to inform you, but people have been dying in that conflict since 1947. Have you counted how many Hindu are in Pakistan or Bangladesh? Try google with the word "genocide" as one of your search criteria.
The strategy that they employ has never been to walk up and ask you to convert. They have typically conquered first, then tell you to convert. The stories of such mass conversions by the sword are the basis of some of their holiest books. When the government turns a blind eye, they employ ethnic cleansings and genocides to accomplish conversions swiftly. They don't need the level of complicity they had in Pakistan and Iran, just a blind eye will do. Look at Afganistan, Thailand, and North Africa. Look at the Balkans and the Caucasus. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 30 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:00:03 PM | Icanhadleit:
You have heard of the "coalition of the bribed" haven't you? Many of those
countries were given extremely handsome rewards for merely voicing
support. Others, were given AIDS treatment subsidies....you either joined
the so-called coalition or watch your people die.
Albania
BRIBED Incredibly poor country with refugee crisis following the Kosovo war. Depends heavily on Western aid.
Australia
BLIND Tony Blair used the country to announce for the first time his intention to topple Saddam Hussein in March 2002. Aussie PM John Howard, right, has been one of Britain's closest allies.
Has sent a 2,000-strong force of SAS troops, fighter jets and warships to the Gulf. But more than two thirds of Australians oppose involvement in any war without UN approval.
Azerbaijan/Georgia
BLIND and BRIBED
President Ferenc Madl, left, has allowed the Iraqi opposition to train on its territory. Hungary is also involved in massive oil deals with the US. It is part of a new wave of countries joining the EU in 2004 and its relations with the West are vital for that course to be completed.
BRIBED Desperate for aid, trade with the West and cash for the war on terror.
BRIBED Desperately needs to develop trade links with Britain and America. Has sent non-combat troops specializing in chemical warfare decontamination in response to US request. Poised to join the EU next year and must keep relations with Britain tight.
Czech Republic
BULLIED The Danish government is sending a corvette and a submarine, - but dropped plans to deploy ground troops because of weak parliamentary support.
BRIBED
Colombia, El Salvador and Nicaragua all receive generous anti-drugs funding from the US.
Denmark Colombia/C America
BRIBED
These are two of the poorest, most war-torn countries in the world. The bitter rivals each want US backing in a boundary dispute and need US aid to fight a massive famine.
Eritrea/Ethiopia Hungary
BLIND One of the 12 original members of Nato's Security Council. Fully supports military action, despite massive protests from within the country.
Iceland
Italy
BLIND The country's right-wing government, led by Silvio Berlusconi, right, has been behind Britain and America every step of the way. But the Vatican said it was deeply pained by the outbreak of war and deplored the interruption of efforts to bring about peace.
Italy has offered logistical help and use of military bases and ports under long-standing Nato commitments.
BLIND Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi has given his moral backing for Washington.
Japan South Korea
BRIBED Has depended heavily on the Yankee dollar for the massive restructuring of its infrastructure.
But even more important than that, it needs American muscle as protection against its nuclear-capable neighbors in the North. President Roh Moo-hyun admitted fearing that war with Iraq could hit relations between North Korea and the West.
Baltic states
BRIBED The crumbling economies of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are desperate for funding from Britain and America through the United Nations.
Philippines
BRIBED President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, right, said Manila gave political and moral support, adding: "We are part of the coalition of the willing."
But the country depends on America for military support and muscle to fight terrorism.
Poland
BRIBED President Aleksander Kwasniewski, left, agreed to deploy up to 200 troops in the Gulf region, to perform non-combat roles supporting any US-led offensive.
He also signed an open letter in support of the US. There's a reason he loves America - Poland is the first former communist state to join Nato and is among the 10 countries which have qualified to join the European Union in 2004.
Macedonia
BRIBED Did not exist at the time of the last Gulf War and is among the world's smallest nations. Needs friends such as Britain and America as well as more funding for its depressed economy and services.
Netherlands
BLIND The Dutch have sent anti-missile batteries to Turkey.
Spain
BLIND The strongest ally of the US and Britain. Has promised the use of its Nato bases for a strike on Iraq. Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, right, appeared side-by-side with Blair and Bush at the Azores summit last week.
Romania
BRIBED Has offered a small military contingent, but it is unlikely to see any action. Romania is desperate for its support to be repaid with increased trade with Britain and American - as well as continued aid.
Turkey
BULLIED and BRIBED Has reluctantly pledged support but President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, left, criticized the US attack, saying the UN Security Council process on Iraq should have been allowed to finish. Washington abruptly withdrew its carrot of a £10billion aid package to Turkey after the pro-Islamic government frustrated the US's military build up.
Slovakia
BRIBED A leading member of the countries which are using this process to boost their own standing, Slovakia has offered troops on a non-combatant basis but expects financial rewards in return.
United Kingdom
BLIND Washington's chief ally, committing 45,000 military personnel, planes and warships. Uzbekistan
BRIBED Receives assistance from the US for fighting drugs and terror.
Silent Partners
SAUDI Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait, Qatar, Jordan, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates and Oman have refused to associate themselves publicly with the coalition.
Israel has publicly supported the war, but America does not want it linked to the coalition.
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:01:44 PM | Arri ... I was hoping you could actually engage in a conversation, rather than posting juvenile responses. I was wrong.
Late - Interesting how you loathe the term "left" while "neo-con" is given a pass. I can read polls, and understand that it is the minority that supports the war. The way you and others rage on about these polls means you clearly think all decisions should be done via poll. Real leaders will make decisions regardless the popularity of those decisions.
Cotter, the simple fact is that, in 2003, the countries I listed DID support this effort. That is when this effort began. The assertion that the USA was involved unilaterally is a lie. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:12:23 PM | I'm not sure how this went from Beck trying to trap an interviewee into stating that the symbolic use of "mushroom cloud", to describe the inevitable loss by Israel of a war they seek to start with the muslim world, into stating that he was for the genocide of Jews turned into the very dubious concept of muslims committing genocide against christians but...
Well here goes
Actually, I traced it back to a time when there were lots of Christians LIVING in the Middle East. It wasn't that long ago, and the cases I spoke of were directly related to an agenda of genocide that has continued to this day. They were not western people. Have you ever heard of the B'hai? Look at their history.
Genocide has been, historically, an activity of christians in the majority of cases. There are very limited examples of genocide against christians and the only one occurring in the middle east at the hands of muslims is the Armenian genocide. That certainly can't be laid at the feet of fundamentalist Islam as it had nothing to do with "convert or die". The christianity of the Armenians was secondary to their national identity as Armenians. The many other non-Armenian christians who were not included in this is testament enough.
The Baha'i? I'm not sure what that has to do with converting or killing christians as the Baha'i aren't christian.
What mass genocide of non-muslims occurred in Afghanistan. Certainly they were fundamentalist and followed an intense version of sharia law but genocides in the name of "convert or die"? Please elucidate (unless you are talking about the Soviets killing large numbers of fundamentalist muslims for political reasons).
Thailand? What mass genocide of non-muslims occurred there in the name of "convert or die"
The Balkans? Seems to me that started with mass genocide of muslims (Bosnians) at the hands of christians (Serbs). Where is the "convert or die" there (unless your talking about those "convert or die" christian Serbs)?
The Caucasus? I assume you are talking about Chechen independence. I haven't seen much about the genocide there either (unless you are talking about the Russians killing huge numbers of muslim rebels for largely political reasons).
Please, do elucidate. | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 33 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:18:57 PM | I was hoping you could actually engage in a conversation, rather than posting juvenile responses.
Unfortunately when you post a comical list of countries as rebuttal to a statement "most of the world doesn't support Dubya's war" how am I expected to take that seriously?
It's simple. UN didn't sanction the war, no matter how many times Glen Beck tells people that Micronesia supported it. 
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 34 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:27:28 PM | Were they getting along in Afghanistan under the Taliban?
Historically, how much of a homeland to Christians and Jews had Afghanistan been?
Buddhists maybe.....
That has been a violent place since before there was an Islam, ...there isn't many good things that have come out of trying to conquer/occupy that region.
Were they getting along in Afghanistan under the Taliban? Taliban was their model for statehood, and it had a few religious overtones, wouldn't you say? Is that too far back for you to call modern times?
What was the elected government prior to the Taliban/Afghan Mujahedeen?
The mujahideen were significantly financed, armed, and trained by the United States (during the Carter and Reagan administrations) and by Pakistan (during the Zia-ul-Haq military regime), the People's Republic of China, and Saudi Arabia. The Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was the interagent used in the majority of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance.
Ronald Reagan praised them as freedom fighters, and the 1988 Rambo III portrayed them as heroic. This connection is ironic, in light of the future turn of events in which many of the same men would end up as a major threat to the United States. This sort of blowback, in which a state helped to create a force to fight another state, only to have that force turn against them, was seen earlier in the 20th century, e.g., the German support for the Bolshevik underground in Russia which led to a Soviet Union and the eventual occupation of East Germany by the Red Army.
Following the Soviet retreat, many of the larger mujahideen groups began to fight each other. After several years of this fighting, a village mullah organized religious students into an armed movement, with the backing of Pakistan, who was being funded by the United States, which found the existing government to be too Russian-influenced, even following the collapse of the Soviet Union. This movement became known as the Taliban, meaning "students", and referring to the Saudi-backed religious schools which produced Islamic fundamentalism along the pacific coast of Asia. With each success the Taliban had, their popularity and numbers grew.
Best enemies money can buy
Yup the sons and daughters of Abraham have their whacko's alright, speaking of India, has Mr. Beck done a show on Billy Graham's Baptist funded bunch in India, the National Liberation Front of Tripura?
The Tripura government has stated that it has irrefutable evidence about the complicity of the Baptist Church's involvement in backing of separatist terrorist groups including the NLFT whose manifesto clearly spells out that their objective is to " expand the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura." Testimony from Nagmanlal Halam, the secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura who was arrested for possession of a large quantity of explosives to the tune of 60 gelatin sticks, 5kg of potassium, 2kg of sulfur and other ingredients for making powerful bombs has supported these allegations. Halam confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT over the past two years. It was two junior members of the same church, that had been arrested earlier who tipped the police off about the explosives which were meant for terrorist organizations like the National Liberation Front of Tripura. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, who was also arrested has admitted that he received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. In addition, the pattern of forced conversions at gunpoint carried out by the likes of NLFT are irrefutably linked to the Baptist Church in Tripura. K.N. Govindachaya of the Bharatiya Janata Party has accused the Baptist Church of Tripura of supporting ethnic cleansing and of trying to expel the Bengali-speaking population of the state. He said that schools, hospitals and voluntary organizations were being forced to close down in disturbed areas of Tripura. But he said institutions associated with the Baptist and Presbyterian churches seemed to be spared.
Tribal Hindus in Tripura have formed vigilante groups to thwart attempts by separatist militants to convert people to Christianity at gunpoint. "It is a very serious threat to Hinduism with armed militants of the outlawed National Liberation Front of Tripura forcibly converting tribal villagers to Christianity," said Rampada Jamatia, a leader of the Jamatia tribe.
- Oread Daily 15/01/2003
http://www.christianaggression.org/features_nlft.php
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/004200610261121.htm
The Abrahamic Extremists are a nasty bunch, ....on that I will agree.
If I've ever used this tactic, re: "You necons are a bunch of.....", I'll gladly retract it.
Late - Interesting how you loathe the term "left" while "neo-con" is given a pass.
I never said I loathed the term, I only pointed out that its use as an epithet is a fallacy.
"Neoconservative" same thing, if it's tossed around as a red herring, it's a red herring.
I can read polls, and understand that it is the minority that supports the war. The way you and others rage on about these polls means you clearly think all decisions should be done via poll.
You mean, like elections?
Real leaders will make decisions regardless the popularity of those decisions.
An informed electorate uses polls to oust those who make stupid decisions. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 35 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:29:44 PM | Real leaders will make decisions regardless the popularity of those decisions.
Shows like his is intended for viewers like yourself, Icanhandleit. If you regard
GWB as a LEADER then get the popcorn going and enjoy the show...by yourself.
GWB is a president...a leader?...who ever said he was one? The show
is intended to broaden the attraction and steal viewers away from
the likes of Faux-news. It's purely a business decision and is very low brow.
You listed those country's and you got soundly trounced.....learn to handle it without
the name calling. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:34:20 PM |
Real leaders will make decisions regardless the popularity of those decisions. That's nothing new ... their families and children are immune from the collateral damage of the death involved. They're "untouchables" ... yawn.
The assertion that the USA was involved unilaterally is a lie. Cotter would take responsibility for that post if Cotter made it, but Cotter did not post that.
OT ...
Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out Apparently to most who are posting in this thread ... the "Glenn Beck" mission is clear ... 
If you find you just can't get away from the show ... maybe it's the (cough) music that you're hooked on ...  | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:41:12 PM | | What name calling, ewok ? Please, show me. Soundly trounced ? No, I merely posted the countries who backed the Iraq war in 2003. It was called factual information. I also made a general declaration on leadership. I did not name anyone in particular. If that is not something which you understand, please ask. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:44:13 PM | I didn't see any mushroom cloud reference in the OP.
Your perceptions are incredible.
Genocide has been, historically, an activity of christians in the majority of cases.
14 million people in the Ukraine, millions in Red China, and 20 million in Sudan would disagree if they had lived to tell about it. Again, we are focusing on the modern era, and if that perception was lost on you in my last two posts, then I suppose we will just have to disagree and you can continue to justify the bloodshed of the continuing inquisition.
The Baha'i? I'm not sure what that has to do with converting or killing christians as the Baha'i aren't christian.
Sorry, did I say that this was specifically about the Muslim/Christian conflict? I don't think Hindu are Christian. I don't think Thai Buddhists are Christians either. Somebody wants to make this a Christian/Muslim issue, but it isn't me.
The Balkans? Seems to me that started with mass genocide of muslims (Bosnians) at the hands of christians (Serbs).
Seems to me that you might go back a bit further. Gee, why would those Serbs possibly want to kill Muslims? Could it have anything to do with a partitioning of the country, and the Serbs that were forced from their homes in the newly partitioned Muslim areas? Nah, it couldn't be that. Could it have anything to do with the terrorist attacks that had become a part of their daily lives after the partition? Could it be that they had some affinity for their fellow Serbs? Maybe you should ask a Serb.
The Caucasus? I assume you are talking about Chechen independence. I haven't seen much about the genocide there either
I haven't seen much proof of the holocaust. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 7:47:28 PM | Cotter ... If you would take the time to read what I actually write, and respond accordingly, this would work better. I said "The assertion" was a lie. I did not say "your assertion was a lie". See the difference ?
I have family members in Iraq ... and several other family members who have retired from the military. We are all quite concerned with the dangers in Iraq. We even pray every night for their safe return. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:15:33 PM | I didn't see any mushroom cloud reference in the OP.
Your perceptions are incredible.
You're right it isn't there. I must have been thinking about the Glen Beck thread that immediately preceeded this one.
My perceptions are incredible? Well thank you, I guess I was better at remembering the most recent bit of Glen Beck BS that got the whole ball rolling better than you were.
Either way, Glen Beck is Glen Beck. Its still the same BS, different day but the same BS.
Or were you thinking about some other nonsense he has come up with when you made this statement.
Glenn is performing a valuable service by informing the public of the dangers of Islamic Extremism and attacking the PC and appeasement mindsets.
Either way, same BS, different day.
Sorry, did I say that this was specifically about the Muslim/Christian conflict? I don't think Hindu are Christian. I don't think Thai Buddhists are Christians either. Somebody wants to make this a Christian/Muslim issue, but it isn't me.
I'm sorry. I guess my perceptions were "incredible" when I thought it was you who posted these.
I doubt that the 13 million Christians who disappeared from the Middle East and the Balkans since the time of Thomas Jefferson has entered into your calculations, since you did specify "the west."
Actually, I traced it back to a time when there were lots of Christians LIVING in the Middle East. It wasn't that long ago, and the cases I spoke of were directly related to an agenda of genocide that has continued to this day.
It doesn't surprise me that you haven't met any Christians who were forced to leave the Middle East.
It certainly seems as though genocide/persecution of christianity is the main theme of your thesis. Altogether that certainly sounds like someone postulating global genocide with the muslims as the single biggest perpetrators and christians as the primary targets to me.
I did notice that you made reference to muslims and hindus (and apparently that muslims were the aggressor and persecutor of the completely innocent hindus there, or at least that is the impression you lend). I will grant the you did throw in a couple of other direct reference to a couple of religions other than christianity but still managed to focus on the idea that Islam is and has been the primary engine for genocide on almost every continent (lets see, you mentioned Europe, Africa and Asia and then threw in some more specific border regions like the mid-east and the sub continent for good measure).
edit:
14 million people in the Ukraine
What 14 million people in the Ukraine were the subject of genocide by non-christian peoples. Were the perpetrators muslim, hindu, buddhist, what? | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:26:55 PM |
It certainly seems as though genocide/persecution of christianity is the main theme of your thesis. Altogether that certainly sounds like someone postulating global genocide with the muslims as the single biggest perpetrators and christians as the primary targets to me.
I did notice that you made reference to muslims and hindus (and apparently that muslims were the aggressor and persecutor of the completely innocent hindus there, or at least that is the impression you lend).
I hope this will make it clear for you:
When I said, "I am talking about an agenda of "convert or die" that continues in a current culture, and is evidenced by selectively bombing places of worship." I was addressing a mindset that endorses Muslim on Muslim violence. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:39:43 PM |
When I said, "I am talking about an agenda of "convert or die" that continues in a current culture, and is evidenced by selectively bombing places of worship." I was addressing a mindset that endorses Muslim on Muslim violence.
Thank you, that is much more clear now. I did not realize that, by saying "convert or die", you were referring to a mindset of muslims forcing other muslims to convert to become muslims. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 44 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:41:21 PM |
I was addressing a mindset that endorses Muslim on Muslim violence.
This is definitely a problem, though in my city, various sects have no problems worshipping shoulder to shoulder.
This seems to be a serious problem in regions that have been subject to the heavy-handedness of western colonialism, imperialism, and hegemony in modern times.
I see this as a regional problem, the cause of which; goes beyond the demonization of a religion. The fact that this is so often ignored due to the efforts of those like the subject of the OP, is to me, an exercise of "hide the cause/blame the effect".
When all is said and done, and the bodies are counted, ....what remains is the fact that there are a select few making a very large profit from it.
What better way to hide profit than to blame a prophet?
Make profiteering from mass destruction a crime against humanity, make the penalties for this crime the most severe. When those who live off the blood and suffering of others are exposed and punished, solving the rest of the problems gets a lot easier.
Until then, someone's making a killing off of making a killing. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:47:28 PM | Cotter, the simple fact is that, in 2003, the countries I listed DID support this effort. That is when this effort began. The assertion that the USA was involved unilaterally is a lie. The statement made was specifically addressed to "Cotter".
*Cotter never posted any such assertion ...
*Cotter merely posted statistics related to a list that was posted previously ...
*NO ASSERTION was made in any way shape or form.
However, by a long stretch of the imagination, I suppose a person could have "interpreted" it that way.
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:53:43 PM | | Cotter, did you or did you not post a list of every country I posted with the withdrawal dates shown for some of those countries ? You did so as a response to my post. I have no problem with that. However, if you read my actual words, you will see quite clearly that I never said you were lying. Clear enough ? I hope so. Being a libertarian is rather lonely in forums like this. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 48 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:54:17 PM | Problem is, after they are done with each other; they come after you.
"They" already have, the nameless faceless "they".
And "they" took everything, and "they" don't have to answer for it, because while "they" enjoy all of the rights and privileges of persons, "they" are not subject to the same accountability.
I don't even get the option of facing "them".
Neither do those "they" oppress around the world.
Big scary Muslims aren't the only thing "they" hide behind.
I have family members in Iraq ...
I have Iraqi friends with family in Iraq, ...they also tell a different story of what's happening there than the "Glen Becks" do.
The problem with the type of propaganda we see here is, it seeks to isolate and demonize while promoting complacency elsewhere, ...I don't see the value here, ...sorry. | |
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| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:55:11 PM |
This seems to be a serious problem in regions that have been subject to the heavy-handedness of western colonialism, imperialism, and hegemony in modern times.
This, I would have to agree with whole-heartedly.
The point being missed, or intentionally omitted, by the demonizers of Islam is that the sectarian violence relates far more closely to the wholly arbitrary and artificial boundries created by colonial, imperialist and hegemonic interests than anything endemic to the beliefs of Islam.
These divisions which ignored cultural practices and local allegiances were created and exploited specifically for the purpose of fomenting strife and division to serve the conquerors interests. This is a pattern which continues today in the rhetoric and propoganda of these demonizers of Islam and occurs for the very same reason: external interests (power and economics).
It is so much easier to focus on the effect and lay the blame on a clearly identifiable and alien culture (which many have little to no understanding of) than to address the cause and risk losing the benefit.
And clearly the benefits fall to more than just the corporate and national entities. Individuals (like Beck) who play it for all they can are making a personal killing off of it as well. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 50 | |
| Glen Beck----I used to like him, but he is kinda freaking me out
Posted: 11/22/2006 8:58:13 PM | The point being missed, or intentionally omitted, by the demonizers of Islam is that the sectarian violence relates far more closely to the wholly arbitrary and artificial boundries created by colonial, imperialist and hegemonic interests than anything endemic to the beliefs of Islam
The whole point behind my position, I'm not Islamic, Christian, or Jewish, ...by ancestry, I'm Luthern and Jewish, though I don't default to any "team" because of propaganda... be it religious or political.
It's the propaganda that peaks my skepicism and makes me dig deeper, ...I don't like being FOOLed. | |
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