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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/5/2006 3:20:17 AM | I can't believe some of you people. I am all for having rights and freedoms to do what you want but what happened to commen courtesy?? This world is going to hell because people have absoulty no consideration for other peoples feelings. I have no problem with people breast feeding in public, after all it is whats best for the baby, but what is wrong with a little modesty and a little consideration of others and using a blanket to cover up.
I have a similar problem although mine is life threatening, I have an allergy to peanuts,a very severe and potentially fatal allergy.. the airlines are wonderful and helpful, they try to make it as safe as possiable for me to fly. I always feel bad because I know noone else on the flight will get nuts.. yet i am always surprised at the people on the flight who believe that the peanuts and nut products have been removed strictly as an inconvience to them. I attempt to be very considerate, i happily explain each time im asked why this is so important, i apologize and always feel bad. These people still think that its just me being complicated , dramatic and demanding... if i could cover my head with a blanket to make people more comfortable it would be a small price to pay.. think about others people before you feel you have to make a stand | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 377 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/5/2006 3:33:31 AM |
but what is wrong with a little modesty and a little consideration of others and using a blanket to cover up.
The breast was covered, what is so offensive about a child?
The facts
That airline uses Dash 8s on that particular route, two seats in a row, max - fact.
The mother took the window seat, the father took the aisle. The mother, not an "activist", not a member of any nursing advocacy, nursed her child in a discrete way, no breast was exposed, ...no breast needed "covering", ...it was covered - fact.
What WAS exposed was the child - fact.
What the attendant found offensive wasn't an exposed breast, there WAS no exposed breast, the blanket wasn't FOR a breast, the breast in question WAS covered.
Obviously the attendant found the child offensive since there was no breast to see.
(Hence, why I consider the attendant; "stupid", "ignorant", etc. ....just my opinion, and why if I were in that position, I would have told her exactly what I thought of her, ..but that's just me. The mother and father in this situation showed restraint and complied when asked to leave, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE IN THE RIGHT.)
According to the attendant's employer, "Freedom" Airlines:
"As soon as the facts were brought to our attention, we immediately launched a thorough investigation. We concluded that the flight attendant in question acted contrary to the Company's expectations. We believe our disciplinary action was appropriate and was taken after considering all of the facts leading to this incident. I do believe it is worth noting that the events described in the article failed to include the fact that the flight attendant in question was young and new to her job."
At fault?
The attendant.
Why?
Officially?
The attendant's ignorance, according to the attendant's employer, due to youth and inexperience. - Fact.
The mother was acting according to her rights, and the attendant pulled a stoopid by being offended by an exposed nursing child not a breast.
think about others people before you feel you have to make a stand
Tell this to the idiot at fault, "the flight attendant in question acted contrary to the Company's expectations", and contrary to the rights of the mother and child who were being discrete, were within their rights, and disturbing no one. | |
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| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/5/2006 3:51:35 AM | | I am David. I have been around many breast feeding moms. There shouldn't have to be a law a law regarding the first eleven months of life. Thinking; 87% of us were breast feed as infants. Infants should be feed on their time and you know when that happens. The baby will insist on it. He is hungry; he needs to be feed. I was on a plane in the 80's headed towards Washington DC; it was a long flight. A woman was asked not to feed her darling little girl; even though she was using a blanket or please go into the bathroom and do it but don't stay in there for over seven minutes. It was the stewardess that was having a problem with breast feeding. I overheard most of the conversation, at which I was shaking my head in disbelief. Not one passenger had complained; most never noticed. The ones that did were smiling. I got up from my seat and asked for a blanket; she returned with a blanket. I asked her (stewardess) if she had any children. Her reply,"heavens no; I'm not having any kids; ever!". I handed the blanket back to her and said,"Good, then why don't you go back to the bathroom and wrap yourself in the blanket; so you don't have to watch a perfectly natural process of feeding infants". She started to say,"Now listen here", when I reached into my coat and brought out a badge and said, "Enough". I asked the people surrounding the woman whether it bothered them and they said, "no, no, weve been admiring the cutie newborn"!! The stewardess left, the sitting passengers applauded; which turned me slightly redfaced. It is not against the law; there shouldn't have to be a law regarding breast feeding anywhere, anytime and by god the baby will let mom know as will the rest of us if it has been to long between feedings. Shame on you people who think this is some sort of lewd act. It is the LAW | |
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| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/5/2006 4:49:06 PM | Late, You keep saying "fact" (what WAS exposed was the child), like you were there and you state that (obviously the attendant found the child offensive)..that sounds more like an opinion to me.
Whatever! It is common courtesy to cover your baby when feeding, whether you are on a plane, in church, the restaurant, around others in a home, or in public. Again, breastfeeding is natural, ok and should be between the mother and the baby. I think having a period is natural too, but I don't want someone changing their stuff in front of me or even know that they are doing it! Keep it discreet as possible. I for one don't care to know.
On a lighter note, sex is natural too, but it is usually kept in private because some people might find it offensive in public. Although there are those who push the issue! | |
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| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/5/2006 5:55:37 PM | It is SO SAD to see so many people on here stating that nursing is the same as (or very similar to) bathroom functions (such as urinating, defecating, menstruating). I'm sure these people have not realized yet (and I don't know why, it's pretty simple) that those bathroom functions (again the urinating, defecating, menstruating that everyone must do, or blow up, as I tell my cousin's son, LOL) all involve REMOVAL of BODILY WASTE. Yet these same people continue to believe that nursing is somehow the same. I don't understand how waste removal is the same as eating. How could it be - it is quite the opposite, not similar. ~sigh~ It must be their educational levels, their upbringing, their sheltered lives, their prejudices, their fears, their close-mindedness, or maybe just that they outright can't stand babies, even though everyone on this planet was one at some point in time. Maybe some people have just maintained that maturity level of a baby and refuse to grow up. Maybe that's it.
Like Late keeps saying, and very patiently, too, there was NO breast exposed, and this FACT is in the report. Saying that the amount of breast coverage was not in the report is the same as saying *this* happened or *that* happened. *This* and *that* are not in the report, but the fact that the breast was covered WAS in the report.
Another fact I have noticed is that those people who say that the mom needed to cover up are the same ones that sound just like the attendant. They do not care about anyone's comfort but their own, and attempt to rationalize it by saying immature things. Their behavior is a lot more offensive than any one eating, even with their mouth open, could possibly be. It's the attitude, and we all know attitude is everything. the feeling I get from the attitude of these people is that they are baby-haters. I know they'll defend their stand by saying they don't hate babies, they just don't want to see the baby nurse, because of this reason or that reason. Fact is, they just don't want the baby to be comfortable, they want to be comfortable, and the baby is smaller than they are, so the baby gets to be the one to deal with any discomfort instead. Shame on some people, shame. I bet each and every one of these baby-hating people have some disgusting habit that would take me all of an hour to figure out, but if brought to their attention, they'd either deny it or downplay it.
Typed while proudly nursing an adorable and healthy baby boy. And NO, he wasn't covered up! And he never will be, there's no need, I keep myself covered, him UNcovered, and the both of us away from baby-haters. | |
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| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/5/2006 6:58:19 PM | | looking at the facts i do agree the flight attendant was wrong BUT if we are going to go with facts and talk about the baby...and baby haters...the fact is the baby's own mother did not feed her baby.Shame on the mother | |
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| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/5/2006 7:42:53 PM |
the fact is the baby's own mother did not feed her baby.Shame on the mother
The mother was attempting to feed her baby, the attendant interfered with that. While the article doesn't specifically mention it I would be willing to bet that she finished feeding the baby after being escorted off the plane.
If we are going to blame anyone for the baby not being fed then the bulk (if not all) of the blame lies with the attendant for unnecessarily and unjustifiably interfering. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 384 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/5/2006 9:29:54 PM |
Late, You keep saying "fact" (what WAS exposed was the child), like you were there and you state that (obviously the attendant found the child offensive)..that sounds more like an opinion to me.
"As soon as the facts were brought to our attention, we immediately launched a thorough investigation. We concluded that the flight attendant in question acted contrary to the Company's expectations. We believe our disciplinary action was appropriate and was taken after considering all of the facts leading to this incident. I do believe it is worth noting that the events described in the article failed to include the fact that the flight attendant in question was young and new to her job."
The airline, after investigating ...backs the version of the incedent as expressed by the family.
Look it up.
Whatever! It is common courtesy to cover your baby when feeding, whether you are on a plane, in church, the restaurant, around others in a home, or in public. Again, breastfeeding is natural, ok and should be between the mother and the baby.
Don't look, no breast was exposed.
I'm amazed at those who equate the nursing of a child with shitting, masturbating, pissing, etc.
Those posessed of such personalities should only go out in public blindfolded, and maybe with earplugs.
And, IMO?
....definitely with a corked piehole.
Although there are those who push the issue!
The mother in question belonged to no nursing advocacy - 'nother fact. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 385 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/5/2006 9:41:42 PM | Iregardless of the fact that the airline explained the error; that it stemmed from an
young and inexpierenced attendant, the woman is still wanting to sue for piles of money and
she also wants a free flight for her and family.
Ordinarily if I were in the womans shoes, I'd hope that I'd be appreciative of the
explanation and accept an apology, but this woman rejects
it and refuses to understand She wants
instead to do battle before the courts and hire lawyers etc etc to
punish the airline for a human error!
So, you have to ask yourself, with such a militant action on her part, would
you accept EVERYTHING the woman says? Can't we give some credence
to what this flight attendant saw? Whom incidently is not permitted
to share with the public her version of events. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/5/2006 9:54:32 PM | Good point EWOK....
tsk tsk, such anger towards analogies, not comparisons...duh
true the flight attendant may tell a whole different story.... | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 387 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/5/2006 10:01:20 PM | Iregardless of the fact that the airline explained the error; that it stemmed from an
young and inexpierenced attendant, the woman is still wanting to sue for piles of money and
she also wants a free flight for her and family.
The attendant went to the ticket counter, NOT the pilots, ....to escalate the situation. The ticket counter is about as corporate you can get at an airport, ...no?
So, you have to ask yourself, with such a militant action on her part, would
you accept EVERYTHING the woman says? Can't we give some credence
to what this flight attendant saw? Whom incidently is not permitted
to share with the public her version of events.
Having been fucked over by, and having my rights violated by corporations via the ignorance and stupidity of an individual who represents the corporation?
Absolutely.
"militant" ?
Gillette, who talked to our NEWSWEEK colleague Karen Springen, said her troubles began when she and her husband and their almost 2-year-old daughter River were traveling from Vermont to New York. Their flight was delayed three hours and anyone who has ever traveled with small children can guess what kind of condition little River was in when the family finally boarded their Freedom Airlines flight (booked through Delta Air Lines) at 10 p.m., well past the toddler’s normal bedtime. The family headed to their seats at the back of the little plane. Mother and daughter took the window seat in the second to last row; River’s dad took the aisle seat. As the plane was getting ready to move, Gillette tucked in next to the window and began to discreetly nurse River.
That’s when Gillette noticed the lone flight attendant holding out a blanket, telling Gillette that she needed to cover up. “I was holding my shirt closed with one hand. There was literally not a bit of my breast exposed,” she says. “I was being as discreet as possible.” When Gillette refused, Gillette says the flight attendant responded; “You are offending me. You need to cover up.” Gillette refused again. Gillette says the flight attendant huffed off, and returned with a ticket agent, who told the family that they were being thrown off the plane. The stunned Gillettes gathered their things and started moving toward the door. “Gillette started quietly crying,” says Elizabeth Beopple, Gillette’s Vermont-based lawyer. “She was so humiliated. As they left the plane, the fight attendant was standing there, and Gillette said in tears, ‘Why are you doing this?’ ” According to the Gillettes, the flight attendant pointed to the door and said, “Get off the plane.” One of the copilots followed them out and apologetically explained that he could not overrule the flight attendant’s decision. “He said, ‘I’m so sorry. I have two children, and there’s nothing I can do about this…The same way that I have control over the cockpit, she has control over the passenger area.’” As the flight left for New York, Delta arranged a hotel for them for that night and booked them on a US Air flight for the next morning. (And yes, Gillette nursed her daughter on that flight with no objection from anyone.)
The airline has disciplined the flight attendant; a spokesman, contacted by NEWSWEEK, did not dispute the Gillette family’s version of the events.
I may be biased though, ..like I said, I have been severely affected by the stoopidity of individuals who ARE BY PROXY, representative of said corporations, ...I hold the individual AND the corporation responsible.
The plaintiff has also made it clear that any financial awards from litigation are to be donated to charity.
I have a similar problem although mine is life threatening
Would you leave an airplane if the attendant told you, ..."sorry, you have to just not eat the nuts, your allergic condition (a natural bodily function too...) offends me, put a blanket over your head for the remainder of the flight."
??? | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/6/2006 5:27:28 AM | I cannot believe the carry on with a baby being breast fed on a plane! Makes me wonder how many passengers were picking their noses at the same time as this baby was having it's dinner! What a mob of 'prudes' for those who object.
I couldn't give a rats a*** where a hungry baby gets breast fed, if the baby is hungry.....feed him/her.....simple.
Once again SOCIETY jumps in, and changes all the rules.
IMO, I think it is a beautiful sight to be able to see, and if people take offence then they have issues.....big issues.
Take a look at the under privilaged countries people, and you will see it's a natural thing, you don't see those people jumping up and down like they have a nail up their a***.  | |
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| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:59:12 PM |
looking at the facts i do agree the flight attendant was wrong BUT if we are going to go with facts and talk about the baby...and baby haters...the fact is the baby's own mother did not feed her baby.Shame on the mother
fact is that the mother did not think she was going to get kicked off the plane. if she had not been kicked off the plane, she would have been able to feed the baby. the attendant kept her from feeding the baby. to me, that attendant is a baby-hater. | |
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kidr69
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Joined: 12/5/2005
Msg: 390 | |
| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/6/2006 5:49:16 PM | i cannot believe some peoples attitude about this issue. whether the child was 2yrs or 2 mths old it is still a natural way to feed our children(and a very healthy way). i don't believe women should make it obvious what they are doing,(and i am SURE most want it to be private between their child and them anyways).if someone is offended by this maybe they should bring a good book or watch the movie in front of them for a few mins.maybe remind themselves that if more women breastfed their children maybe there would be more food for others that are starving in the world. just a thought. i think over all people should worry way more about more important things in this world than this,like global warming ,killing each other abroad and at home,learning to live in peace with each other. better results with our time i would think.  | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 391 | |
| The law states IT IS LEGAL; how did we all get here; anyway
Posted: 12/6/2006 6:20:38 PM | juliet..........i know this is nitpicky- a beautiful sight to see?? I thought we weren't supposed to be looking
I wonder why people from the flight haven't said anything; are they not allowed to either?? Or maybe they are worried about being banned?? | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/6/2006 6:21:58 PM | I say if anyone has a problem with that, you need some therapy to get well. Why would it offend you that the baby is getting fed, it's a beautiful thing. I know, it exites some of you prudes who may not have seen many women's breasts, and that bothers you, or you think it bothers others. Get some help, please!
Perhaps mothers should attempt to cover up so as not to make those unfortunate people uncomfortable, but even that is not enough for some. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/6/2006 6:50:47 PM | I think it's totally ridiculous for anyone to object to the sight of a woman's breast much less a small sliver of it while she's breastfeeding. She was right to object. Our countrie's hangups w/our bodies is ludicrous. The Europeans are much more realistic.
Perry | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 394 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/6/2006 10:15:33 PM | if it was more commonplace; then people wouldn't notice it anymore. On a plane- I know I wouldn't have noticed. Until other people on that plane speak up, we won't know for sure what really happened.
Its not hangups with our own bodies thats the problem; it the hangups with other people's bodies. I know I would be more comfortable covering up- but then i'm more private than some people. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/7/2006 4:53:42 AM | | After reading the Flatuence thread i think the airlines are goin' freakin bonkers!!!!! My consideration shpeel is def out the window. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/7/2006 7:11:33 AM | I have no problem being considerate of others ... most especially in close quarters.
The nursing mother was not being inconsiderate in any way. She was not flaunting her activity to the other passengers, she was not indecently exposed, and at the time of the incident, all other passengers should have been seated and belted in for take off.
Even if that were not the case, and the attendant wanted to give her some privacy ... let her stand there and hold the blanket up like a curtain, but do not ask the woman to cover up something that doesn't exist. One can see more bared breasts just walking down a crowded beach for crying out loud.
*visualizing the prudish flight attendant in a bathing suit at the beach from the 1920's ...
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/7/2006 7:31:09 AM | | No doubt most of the people complaining about the woman breast feeding her baby are the type that watch porn on a weekly basis and go to strip clubs | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/7/2006 8:48:55 AM | Well, yeah, VampicaX, you think breasts should exist for any reason other than to titillate some juvenile jack-offs with nothing better to do? What are you, a grown-up? Honestly....
 Ya know I'm kidding.... | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/7/2006 11:44:57 AM | | OH MY?! What a volatile thread!! Good points on both sides of the fence, but overall, I'm in agreement with Alikat ^^ .... well said, girl! | |
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