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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 426 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 11:17:41 AM | The last time I was on a Dash 8 (the plane this incident happened on), it was a commuter run from Ottawa to Quebec City in '91, ...this is not a big wide open plane people, ...the jump seat for the attendant is at the front of the plane,
I know this because I had to pre-board as an hour before the flight, I had torn all but one of the cartilage in my left knee, ....I had a choice, hospital/no refund on the round-trip tickets, or take the flight on crutches a foot too short, and in a lot of pain.
As it was my first time visiting my sister in QC, and it was a Halloween party, ...I took the plane.
Well, it's a dry run to Montreal, for one stop, ...about a half hour. By the time we left Montreal it was afternoon enough for the drink cart, I proceded to medicate 4 scotches at a time, I'm not a loud drinker and had no problems getting about 16 l'il bottles during the hour or so it took to get to QC.
My knee was swollen to twice its normal size at that point, it hurt like hell, ...but I didn't care.
All the staff went out of their way to make me comfortable, and I got to my sister's place and stayed medicated for the whole weekend, and pretty much had a repeat of the same trip on the way back (except they confiscated my potato gun at check in). I've only ever flown on Canadian airlines, I've always been treated like a valued customer, maybe things are different elsewhere.
1) Mom and kid sitting in the window seat at the back of the plane, dad in the aisle?
Even if her boob was out (wasn't) anybody wanting to have a peek will have to go to a lot of effort.
2) The plane was taking off
The jump seat's at the front of the plane, the attendant would have had to go out of her way to pull her "I'm offended" BS.
This is a Dash 8, the plane used on that route:
http://www.caribbeanalpa.com/gallery/images/li_dash-8.jpg
Look at this aircraft, it is far from a Jumbo Jet, ...no?
Now, ...think about it for a second...... | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 12:28:51 PM | Wow justhank, thanks for putting that picture in my head. 
The more I think about the people who are trashing the airline stewardesses/stewards the more upset I get too. What's going to happen to all of you if one day you are unfortunate enough to be ON A PLANE THAT HAS PROBLEMS and the only people to turn to are them? Just think about it. You go down in water, they know what to do, you go down in flames, they know how to get you the heck out of the plane before you die of smoke inhalation or burns, you get bashed around while in the air they provide the emergency medical aide. The fact is THEY ARE THERE FOR YOUR SAFETY.
Those people aren't only there to serve you. My GOD do you have NO respect for others? How would you feel if people trashed you and the way you do YOUR job based on an article in a news paper/incident on a plane? Personally I get airsick and I give kudo's to ANYONE that flies constantly. I'd rather walk than get in a plane but when I do I at least respect the people who are there TO HELP ME. They are not your slaves people, and even though you buy a plane ticket THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU THEY WORK FOR THE AIRLINE. Give respect where respect is due. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 428 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 12:39:30 PM | THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU THEY WORK FOR THE AIRLINE. Give respect where respect is due.
According to her employer she acted in an incompetant manner, they say, due to age and inexperience.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement, sorry, if this is someone to rely on in an emergancy?
She's already proved she can't handle the simple stuff.
Doesn't know her own company's policy, doesn't know the law.
trashing the airline stewardesses/stewards
Nothing but praise from me, I've never encountered an idiot like the one who was offended by an uncovered child's head.
THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU THEY WORK FOR THE AIRLINE.
The airline has been paid tor render a service, there is also the basic expectation of quality that's been part of civil law for hundreds of years.
WHO would take a child on a plane and not restrain them in a car seat or in the regular airline seat?
Under 2? standard where I come from, you use a restraint extension. In fact, when I travelled with my daughter when she was 4 months younger than this (aparently offensive to the attendant, a security risk according to some on this thread) child, they wouldn't let us use a car seat.
Besides, this is NOT what this thread is about. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 429 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 1:14:33 PM |
and FYI,..there are no baby seats today,....on airplanes,...a parent is required to hold their child on their lap during take offs and landings,....something I myself have been fighting since my own were that age some 22 - 30 years now,....
True, but you can use a restraint extension, ...this is just another example of deflecting the issue to demonize the mother and child.
We had to hold our daughter on our lap, she was only 16mo, about the same size as that 22mo kid that was kicked off the plane by that idiot.
in the same way gum is used by adults to clear your ears as the plane goes up.....
sucking in the nursing action,...does the same for infants,...
to be unable to clear your ears as you may know is very painfull to adults,..well it hurts babies too,...
Absolutely, this is why pediatricians recommend breast-feading on ascents and descents. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 1:37:49 PM | | I agree with you Fiery, she should be allowed to Breast feed but she went too far. Why couldn't she have covered up a little? I hate these kinds of people that try to jam their rights in everyone else's face. The lawsuit should be thrown out and she should be fined for wasting the court's time and taxpayers time. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 431 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 1:44:02 PM | Why couldn't she have covered up a little?
How about completely, no part of the breast was visable, it was the child who was exposed,
Their flight was delayed three hours and anyone who has ever traveled with small children can guess what kind of condition little River was in when the family finally boarded their Freedom Airlines flight (booked through Delta Air Lines) at 10 p.m., well past the toddler’s normal bedtime. The family headed to their seats at the back of the little plane. Mother and daughter took the window seat in the second to last row; River’s dad took the aisle seat. As the plane was getting ready to move, Gillette tucked in next to the window and began to discreetly nurse River.
That’s when Gillette noticed the lone flight attendant holding out a blanket, telling Gillette that she needed to cover up. “I was holding my shirt closed with one hand. There was literally not a bit of my breast exposed,” she says. “I was being as discreet as possible.” When Gillette refused, Gillette says the flight attendant responded; “You are offending me. You need to cover up.” Gillette refused again. Gillette says the flight attendant huffed off, and returned with a ticket agent, who told the family that they were being thrown off the plane. The stunned Gillettes gathered their things and started moving toward the door. “Gillette started quietly crying,” says Elizabeth Beopple, Gillette’s Vermont-based lawyer. “She was so humiliated. As they left the plane, the fight attendant was standing there, and Gillette said in tears, ‘Why are you doing this?’ ” According to the Gillettes, the flight attendant pointed to the door and said, “Get off the plane.” One of the copilots followed them out and apologetically explained that he could not overrule the flight attendant’s decision. “He said, ‘I’m so sorry. I have two children, and there’s nothing I can do about this…The same way that I have control over the****it, she has control over the passenger area.’” As the flight left for New York, Delta arranged a hotel for them for that night and booked them on a US Air flight for the next morning. (And yes, Gillette nursed her daughter on that flight with no objection from anyone.)
The airline has disciplined the flight attendant; a spokesman, contacted by NEWSWEEK, did not dispute the Gillette family’s version of the events.
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 3:19:44 PM |
According to her employer she acted in an incompetant manner, they say, due to age and inexperience.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement, sorry, if this is someone to rely on in an emergancy?
She's already proved she can't handle the simple stuff.
Doesn't know her own company's policy, doesn't know the law.
OF COURSE the airline is going to say that. That doesn't mean she's incompitent in case of emergency they have to pass what basically amounts to EMT training before they can become a flight attendant. There's a saying in the military sh*t flows down. It's true in any business or industry too. It's easier to blame the lowly flight attendant than it is to say OOPS the airline made a mistake. They can't be sued then.
The airline has been paid tor render a service, there is also the basic expectation of quality that's been part of civil law for hundreds of years.
And as explained that service is to provide training to the flight attendants to insure your safety during the flight or if God forbid the plane has problems and crashes or catches fire on landing. That is the service they are trained for and it fulfills the contract. They also have to learn more than rudimentary first aid and need to know how to use equipment in case someone suffers a heart attack on a flight. You are getting a lot more for your money NOW than you were years ago when all the did was serve you dinner and provide drinks. About ten years ago my sister, an RN, was on a flight and a man had a heart attack. At that time there was no EMT type training or equipment necessary to provide help. She had to give CPR to the man for THREE HOURS before they could land at the closest airport. That wouldn't happen today. Do you want dinner, drinks and barbie doll type talk or REAL SERVICE that will save your life?
this is just another example of deflecting the issue to demonize the mother and child.
Untrue, I have no problem with a mother breast feeding in public. However, FOR YEARS the news has told parents to bring their own car seats on planes for their children's safety. As I said a child that is not properly restrained becomes an airborn missle if there is a problem on the flight. I'd rather have my child ALIVE than breast fed. Pacifiers serve the same purpose. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 3:31:17 PM | | power is one of my points...which is why i am upset with the mom...or disappointed is a better word.upset with both but more upset with the mom.She had the power to make this flight attendant look like the idiot she was w out going to her level of thinking.it was like two kids fighting...take the blanket...hell no im not... ok then i am telling...Had she manipulated it right she could have fed the baby... comforted the baby and then went to town on the attendant...what is the problem with that??The only reason why the attendant had the power is because the mother gave up hers. not authoritive but mental. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/8/2006 3:34:33 PM |  smith good one honey...............
ok .. a women who can breat feed is EVE... simple......... any man should understand this........ a mother's milk to her child(durrrrrrrrrr what is the problem?) yeah unfortunately younger mothers are giving into bottle feeding....... so sad and un natural........... this women on the plane did nothing wrong but to feed her baby.......... perhaps the women on this thread who have attacked are semi jealous that they did not give there baby the natural start to life????yes some of us can't do it for medical reasons....... I couldn't my son...... but my daughter I did achive it and wowwwwwwwww amazing......... if I want to breast feed my daughter I will get over it........by the way she will be 5 on monday and no dont do it anymore lol........... 
EDIT........ I do know a mum who still breasts feeds her son at the age of 4.......... now I am no prude...... but 4?????? no that is wrong..... he starts school after christmas..... how can he go all day without mommy's tit??????? not right | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/9/2006 3:15:04 AM | Ladies and Gentlemen
Please leave your off-topic commentaries off the thread. Responding to the OP with additional non topic comments is not a viable post either. Leave the moderating to us, simply report any infractions if you wish, and carry on.
Thread Page rolled back to last viable post
Thank You.
Moderator/Trappedonbayst | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:46:49 PM | I'm thinking the mom's plan was simply to breast feed her child during assent and descent (take off and landing) to prevent the build up of air pressure in the child's ears. Many of us chew gum which causes a swallowing reflex ... we can't give gum to such a young child in order to obtain the same.
As long as "mom" is doing that discreetly ... as was the case with this mom ... it should not be offensive to anyone. I believe I have seen quotes in here that clearly states the airlines is taking the responsibility for the attendant acting out of order ... contributing her actions to a general lack of experience ... new employee or such.
I would wager that she might think long and hard the next time she observes such a "passive" threat to the "security of the passengers" in the plane she is working on.  | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/11/2006 9:02:40 PM | | It is a way to go by it.To me I think you can breast-feed without showing your breast.I think some women want it to be sexual and for men to stare at their breast.you also got to be careful with breast-feeding in public because it is alot of perverts and rapists out here.Once the perverts see you breast-feeding they start to staring and you dont know what is running through their mind.Im not saying it is wrong to breast-feed but I do feel you should cover up.when I was pregnant my child birth teacher suggested I breast-feed but I told her no that is not for me,she kept it on up trying to tell me the children that are breast fed learn better,their healthier,etc.my problem with breast-feeding was I would feel very uncomfortable.But to each your own,it depends on what the person decide too. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/12/2006 9:35:42 AM | well,...Lil_Genuine_Sweetie,...nice to see your priorities are set,...
in the best interest of,...your child,...
breast feeding is also better for the mom because in nursing your own body reacts bringing it back to a pre pregnant state faster,.....as in fitter etc,....
but anyone who is un impressed with their baby's well being,..health, and learning,....progress wise won't be impressed about their own muscle tone returing faster either,..and will never ever risk being evicted from a plane,....
Good for you | |
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dhanji
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Joined: 8/27/2006
Msg: 439 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/12/2006 11:11:30 AM | Breastfeeding is natural and should be encouraged. However, the USA has alot of pervs in it's society so it would be better for the mother to cover up to prevent stares from such folk.
The flight attendant was right to offer the blanket. However, it was also the mother's right to refuse it. The persons who were offended must have been bottle fed. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 440 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/12/2006 11:13:26 AM | The persons who were offended
Only one, the attendant, ...and no breast or part of a breast was visible, ...just the child. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/15/2006 2:20:16 PM | Speaking as a mother of three sons in which i breast fed and they are alot healthier because of it, I did nurse my children in public, in a modest way, none the less I fed my children when they were hungry regardless of how narrow minded people felt about it.
When making the decision to breastfeed my children I asked advice from my Mother and my Grandmother about the subject, both of whom nursed their children, the answer my Grandmother gave me was God gave women breasts and the ability to breastfeed just like he gave other animals that ability to nourish and sustain their children, with the invention of artifical formulas for babies these days, yes breast milk can be replaced but not duplicated, nothing can take the place of mothers milk for a healthy child, and you know what my pediatrician agreed with her.
When my Grandmother was a young mother it wasnt unusual to be sitting at a gathering and see a mother nursing her child, whether it was a social gathering or church for that matter. The fact is, that breastfeeding was so common back then that no one really paid attention to the nursing mother because thats how everyone fed their children, but today it is rare to see a mother feed her child by breast, and I think thats sad, because our children would be healthier if mothers fed them the way God intended, part of the reason why mothers choose to not nurse their children is because of society's outlook on the matter, its time that people grew up and look at things the way they should be, if God hadnt intended for us to feed our children that way he wouldnt have given us the capablity to do so. just my opinion. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/15/2006 11:59:18 PM | Simply put "Flight Attendants" have grasped power they're not entitled to. Breast feeding an infant is not the sort of thing they're supposed to be concerned over.
I breast fed my infant on an aircraft and nothing showed; neither I or my husband would have acquiesced to hiding or depriving our infant of proper ventilation by tenting ourselves with a blanket.
Recently on a short flight a young man would have been arrested because he didn't pick up his pretzels wrapper from the aisle. I spoke with the Police Officer summoned by the flight attendant and was able to prevent the arrest. An incredible abuse of power by the flight attendant; and the police department does not need the waste of their manpower over a trivial incident. The young man was grateful......when he asked what he could do to thank me........I asked him to promise that if he could ever help right a wrong he'd get involved.
Airline travel used to be glamorous, we were there to make airline travel pleasant......and meeting passengers needs were paramount; unfortunately, today some ignorant attendants consider that ass kissing. And of course we had emergency training, probably more intensive than it is today when airlines are not as choosey as they use to be in selecting personnel.
My daughter was also threatened with being thrown off an aircraft when she didn't want to give her handbag to the flight attendant to put in the overhead rack; had baby's bottle and her medication in it.
I'm surprised at the above comment regarding the co-pilot not being able to overrule the flight attendant........The ultimate power in an aircraft lies with the Captain....must be a new thing or for that specific airline. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/16/2006 12:22:07 AM |
please note,...seats on an airplane face forward,...NOT sideways,...
if you don't like it,..keep your eyes to yourself,..or better yet face forward and watch the movie,....hey,...they might have scantily clad breasts playing for you,.... Brilliant post(s)! Thank you.
I've take the position that breastfed is best and did so myself (and took some criticism for the length of time I did).
We have breasts and should use them as intended -- we ALL also have eyelids and should try using those as well. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/16/2006 1:02:19 AM | Thank you,....justtrbl
that seemed like such an obvious statement that I believed said all that needed to be said,...
Colour me ever so surprised,....because here we are 18 pages,....and
440 posts' later and yet we haven't (it seems to me) progressed one iota,....
go figure!  | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/16/2006 1:19:41 AM | Theadra - I take issue with your post on Flight Attendants. GOOD issue that is. I am a retired DC6B and 707 Captain from PANAM. (That unfortunately does not exist anymore). My last flight scheduling called for me to fly from JFK to San Juan to Miami and then back eventually to JFK. This all in the 707. In days gone by I flew the DC6B throughout Central America which I enjoyed immensely. Now, since I have retired to flying as a passenger I have seen the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, or shall we say flight attendants. For some reason they seem to exert a definitive power that is alien to all passengers. I fly now as a passenger. Sometimes I am recognized and sometimes not. So, what do we have here? We have a security issue where the****it crew may not leave the****it during flight due to security measures. (I know there are exceptions). So that in turn leads to a power play in the passenger cabin. From what I have seen since traveling as a passenger has been just plain disgusting. The attendants really could care less about their appearance, and to me it seems they are
troubled by having to serve the passengers, however, this is their duty. Now they do not have to serve meals for the most part. So what is the answer???
As an after thought my last flight took me down to Buenos Aires where we laid over, had a wonderful time in a little Italian restaurant that I will never forget. I can no longer fly except as a passenger due to health issues and the FAA, but I remember the camaraderie, I remember the trips, the aircraft, and the peace I found in the air. Do please excuse me for rambling on like this but as I believe you mentioned once that you were a Flight Attendant, then I am sure you know of what I speak.
Or, as I like to say sometimes – “up, up, the long delirious burning blue – I topped the windswept heights with easy grace - put out my hand and touched the face of God”, with due respect to John Gillespie who wrote the poem. And thank you Theadra for bringing this all up in a post. Old memories ~ I thank you!
Yet let it be known that I have the utmost respect for the cabin crew. They are trained and trained again to handle emergencies. Yes, I do respect them. But for some reason I really have no desire to fly with them now, even if I could. It's the way things are I guess...Yet, I have one last thing to say ~ 'take the time to be kind'.
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 446 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/16/2006 8:53:38 AM | This whole issue arose not out of other passenger's discomfort, security, or anything other than the attendant abusing her position.
This said, I have no experience on US airlines, my most recent experiences here are with Westjet. The attendants have always been absolutely fantastic, the MO here is informal, and fun. The preflight stuff was all done with humour, ...and it was actually entertaining, and spontaneous, ...the first time I ever paid attention BTW. They weren't at all cliche', they were just being themselves.... absolutely no complaints from me about any of the attendants I've ever experienced, they always went out of their way to make the confinement of a flight bearable.
The last flight I was on was last Jan 1, it was not a happy time, I had just attended my mother's memorial service the day before, she passed away last Dec 24. I flew from Regina to Calgary to make a connecting flight to Ottawa and in Calgary I had a one hour wait, the attendant from the flight from Regina joined me at my table at the Airport lounge where I was having a few beers during my wait, and offered condolences before she reboarded her plane, ...I have no idea how she knew, but I was floored by this consideration.
If I EVER see the kind of abuse that the idiotic attendant in the OP displayed, ...I would voice my complaint about the attendant as a passenger offended by the stupidity of the attendant, even if it meant being kicked off, ...that kind of abuse of authority and conflict of interest is something I can't stay silent about. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/16/2006 10:01:56 AM | I will never forget the flight to Germany back in 1975 when we moved there. I have yet to get the care on a flight that we got back then with Swiss Air. OMG ... we were treated like royalty. We were on a 747 Jumbo Jet.
We were given bulk head seats and total priority. We were traveling with our baby (3 months old) and our little dog, a little American Eskimo. The dog was allowed in the passenger cabin in her carrying cage at our feet. They provided a bassinettte that bolted above us with a short sway bar that was padded and screened with zipper closures.
I had the option of breast feeding during take off and landing, in fact it was encouraged. The flight attendants told me I could do it without hinderance. Then she informed the adjacent passengers (across the isle from us) that they anticipated I would be breastfeeding the baby during take off and landing and she barely had the words out of her mouth when they said ... "No problem ... it's the best thing she can do for her baby."
During the flight, I could put the baby up in her bassinette to sleep and zip it closed and go to sleep myself knowing that if the plane got into some turbulance, the baby would be safe above me and not bounced around ... as the sway bar absorbed the movement in the plane.
Once the plane settled into flight and the movie was on and it was dark, there was not much for the attendants to do, and they couldn't resist coming and visiting with us and our little family. They cooed over the baby and even let us have the dog out of her cage on a very short leash. They kept me informed at all times if the captain got any reports of turbulance upcoming so we could secure the dog and the baby.
It gives me goose bumps and tears in my eyes as I sit here now and write this. Ahhhh ... those were the days ... yes, those were the days my friends.
Sigh ... I want those days back again. | |
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churpy
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Joined: 9/5/2006
Msg: 448 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/16/2006 2:30:07 PM | | I just returned from Mexico, I travelled Skyservice, and the ladies were awesome, they even helped entertain the kids when they got cranky...highly recommended! | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/17/2006 7:37:38 PM | I just had to throw this in as long as we're on the subject of flight attendants. I took a short flight a while back on Southwest Airlines from Burbank to Las Vegas, maybe 45" or so. Immediately after takeoff, one of the flight attendants got on the loud speaker and in a very mature and intelligent voice said the following: "Ladies and Gentlemen, please relax as we shall be at our cruising altitude very shortly, after which you may smoke as you wish in our smoking lounge. As this is a smoking flight please exit through the rear door of the aircraft and I am sure you will find a good seat to relax in on the tail of the aircraft. Have a good flight". The passengers loved it, and the way she talked I think some of the passeners began to think she was serious, that it really was a smoking flight, which we all know does not exist anymore.
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/17/2006 7:56:31 PM | First, this country is soooo full of uptight christians I think were about to blow(oh thats right, the christians voted us to blow up another country,hmmm), breast feeding is one of the most wonderful things left in this rediculous life, BUT, I think the woman could of covered up, the plane is close quarters, If some one dosnt want to see your goods they shouldnt have to, but if you want to come over tonite you can show me yours, sorry that was in bad taste, ha. | |
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