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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/30/2006 11:15:45 PM | | breastfeeding is required for the nourishment of the baby. Anyone who thinks that breastfeeding is "lacking in class" should NEVER be a mother. I'm sure that I speak for most people when I say that I would not want a mother that would refuse to feed me because she was more worried about her status in the eyes of others than her own child. Very shallow band_campgirl (tsk tsk). | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/30/2006 11:30:16 PM | Most of the time, the breast needs stroking to make the milk drop down (something you guys might not know).
Nursing mothers experience the "Let down reflex" in aticipation of nursing their infants; they do not need to stroke the breast. Why pads are used in nursing bras. Surprised that the La Leche league didn't inform you of this. Your reflex obviously didn't kick in, that's ususal so don't assume every mother has to sit around stroking their breasts prior to breast feeding just because you had to. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 479 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/30/2006 11:36:12 PM | I am referring to those in this forum who tell others their opinions are subjective....opinions have always been subjective that I have known of and of course this is immaterial because our discussion doesn't change anything.
Nooooo... what you feel is "too old" is immaterial to the topic of the OP, aside from that it's also
Breastfeeding in public is revolting and lacking in class.
So is this, the mother and child were:
1) Within their rights
2) Consistant with the airline policy
Flew the next day without the addition of an idiotic attendant -
No complaints.
but we don't have the full story.
Sure we do, we have a timeline, we have copies of reports, press-releases, and witnesses, and statements from even the pilot who was there apologized, and said if hey had say over the cabin, it wouldn't have happened.
According to the attendant's employer, "Freedom" Airlines:
"As soon as the facts were brought to our attention, we immediately launched a thorough investigation. We concluded that the flight attendant in question acted contrary to the Company's expectations. We believe our disciplinary action was appropriate and was taken after considering all of the facts leading to this incident. I do believe it is worth noting that the events described in the article failed to include the fact that the flight attendant in question was young and new to her job."
"Gillette, who talked to our NEWSWEEK colleague Karen Springen, said her troubles began when she and her husband and their almost 2-year-old daughter River were traveling from Vermont to New York. Their flight was delayed three hours and anyone who has ever traveled with small children can guess what kind of condition little River was in when the family finally boarded their Freedom Airlines flight (booked through Delta Air Lines) at 10 p.m., well past the toddler’s normal bedtime. The family headed to their seats at the back of the little plane. Mother and daughter took the window seat in the second to last row; River’s dad took the aisle seat. As the plane was getting ready to move, Gillette tucked in next to the window and began to discreetly nurse River.
That’s when Gillette noticed the lone flight attendant holding out a blanket, telling Gillette that she needed to cover up. “I was holding my shirt closed with one hand. There was literally not a bit of my breast exposed,” she says. “I was being as discreet as possible.” When Gillette refused, Gillette says the flight attendant responded; “You are offending me. You need to cover up.” Gillette refused again. Gillette says the flight attendant huffed off, and returned with a ticket agent, who told the family that they were being thrown off the plane. The stunned Gillettes gathered their things and started moving toward the door. “Gillette started quietly crying,” says Elizabeth Beopple, Gillette’s Vermont-based lawyer. “She was so humiliated. As they left the plane, the fight attendant was standing there, and Gillette said in tears, ‘Why are you doing this?’ ” According to the Gillettes, the flight attendant pointed to the door and said, “Get off the plane.” One of the copilots followed them out and apologetically explained that he could not overrule the flight attendant’s decision. “He said, ‘I’m so sorry. I have two children, and there’s nothing I can do about this…The same way that I have control over the****it, she has control over the passenger area.’” As the flight left for New York, Delta arranged a hotel for them for that night and booked them on a US Air flight for the next morning. (And yes, Gillette nursed her daughter on that flight with no objection from anyone.)
The airline has disciplined the flight attendant; a spokesman, contacted by NEWSWEEK, did not dispute the Gillette family’s version of the events.
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 10:17:37 AM | yes, it is shangrila... and it amazes me that with so many horrible things in the world to protest and fight against that something as lovely and natural as nursing a child should be controversial...
what does this say about society?
if it had been me the flight attendant was trying to get off the plane, i most certainly would not have left so complacently... i would have made a fuss (perhaps even a scene) and let her be the one to feel humiliated... as it was noted, none of the other passengers complained, and i'm sure there would have been plenty to stick up for the mom... i might have been booted off the flight anyway, and for making a scene may not have had a good day in court, but no way would i have walked out hanging my head in shame.
in any case, i hope the mom got a good settlement. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 10:18:23 AM | | Yes, I am aware of the let down effect, but not all woman get it...hmmm...at any rate, I think breastfeeding is within her rights, I see nothing wrong with doing it on the plane, etc etc etc and etc....but I do think she should of covered up and not made it a big deal. I think the attendant has a lot more insight and common sense than what she is being given credit for. She just asked her to cover up. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 10:23:17 AM | but the flight attendant made this request for her own personal reasons, regarding here own opinions on breastfeeding as more important than the feelings of the mother or child, who were at the back of the plane... it was not an objective request at all, and had nothing to do with the comfort or safety of the plane's passengers.... quite the contrary, it was detrimental to three of them. The stewardess was clearly out of line.
and true as it is that not all women experience even a subtle let down, mine was major... breast pads were a necesity for me, my milk would come up full force, (i could have fed quints!) triggered not only at feeding time, but when eating, lifting anything heavy such as full grocery bags at the supermarket, hearing any baby cry at any given time or place and so on.... it wasn't only very sudden and messy, it was painful... sometimes rushing off to a quiet place isn't an option. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 11:00:23 AM |
Breastfeeding in public is revolting and lacking in class.
As a La Leche leader for 5 years, I have seen and heard everything. I wish to thank Late for posting clarification to the story.
After long considered thought, I think the problem is not so much about an exposed breast as it is the fact that a nursing mother reveals a much more complete picture of womanhood, one that is at often at odds with the constant sexualization of our society. IMHO it conflicts with the "good times" sexual concept. Sex without responsibility, just for fun. I also think it is a threat to other women. They don't want to deal with it.
I nursed all of my children until they weaned themselves at about 3. Why is a toddler gaining comfort from the breast of it's mother so offensive?
In nursing my children over 12 years, the numerous rude comments I heard, even while covered up, were always from women. I never experienced one man who felt it necessary to rudely interrupt my time nursing with my child to insult my choice for the best nutrition for my baby. In fact, most men who felt it necessary to comment, said it was beautiful to watch. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 485 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 11:16:10 AM | I nursed all of my children until they weaned themselves at about 3. Why is a toddler gaining comfort from the breast of it's mother so offensive?
My theory: I notice that the women who are most likely to go topless on the beach
are unattractive....in the recent breast-feeding
protest at the airports, I notice most, if not all, were unattractive women. Perhaps
it's some sort of hostility towards those women?'
I mean, if there is no other logical reason to be offended, then let's consider the unlikely
other possibilities.
Beautiful people can always sell it....it's why they are front-end of any
department store and salon. I sincerely believe that if that woman was
attractive as say....Angelina Jollie, there would NOT have been a problem.
UPDATE: the airline is fighting this claiming that local laws do not apply
to air carriers and so even though it is perfectly legal to breastfeed or
even go topless in that State, air carrier laws trump all local laws. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 11:25:33 AM |
My theory: I notice that the women who are most likely to go topless on the beach
are unattractive....
sadly, you're going to all the wrong beaches. ;)
...in the recent breast-feeding protest at the airports, I notice most, if not all, were unattractive women. Perhaps it's some sort of hostility towards those women?
there are now breast-feeding protests at airports??? how disturbing if this is true.
on attractiveness... not at all original but a truism... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. and it does seem rather unlikely that this is the cause, i believe it's simply the product of puritanical victorian age social values continued on via the 'moral majority' who aren't the majority anyway... good thing we can show our ankles and necks now, and even vote!
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 11:27:22 AM |
My theory: I notice that the women who are most likely to go topless on the beach
are unattractive....in the recent breast-feeding
protest at the airports, I notice most, if not all, were unattractive women. Perhaps
it's some sort of hostility towards those women?'
ewok, are you trying to tell me something?
There is a very slim margin of the public that is really aesthetically beautiful. I think it is statistically comparable. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 488 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 11:32:35 AM |
UPDATE: the airline is fighting this claiming that local laws do not apply
to air carriers and so even though it is perfectly legal to breastfeed or
even go topless in that State, air carrier laws trump all local laws.
Two airlines BTW, Delta is putting the onus on the attendant, FA is trying to play the loophole, unfortunately the Vermont law is based on the Constitution, ...we shall see.
I guess that blows the whole, "Airline just playing PR" BS out of the water
I mean, if there is no other logical reason to be offended, then let's consider the unlikely
other possibilities.
The attendant was a women, and the only one "offended", and Ms. Gillette is far from being unattractive, ...either way, immaterial to the matter of the OP, ...still, speaks volumes that someone would even bring it up.. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 489 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 11:49:21 AM | puritanical victorian age social values continued on via the 'moral majority' who aren't the majority anyway... good thing we can show our ankles and necks now, and even vote!
What what? Puritanical victorian age?....I didn't get that memo. All I see is
a society that sexualized the breast trying to sell cars and alcohol and
cigarettes....crack when it becomes legal. I don't think any nation of the world would dare accuse
us Americans of being moral on hardly anything. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 12:16:37 PM | sexualising breast-feeding is just one of the results of sexual repression in the us, others are more need for porn, debasing women in music and literature, higher sex-crime rates, gay bashing and so on.... you can see it clearly when you live outside the us and look in, it's a hypocritical morality and has its roots in the puritan values that are the heritage of the nation... funny how another part of the heritage is the right to bear arms... (can't say the f word on tv, but kill and kill again, that's ok) but i digress...
sex is used for ads all over the planet, that isn't specific to the us... it has a high marketing value and it sells... still, censorship and political correctness are high and mighty in the us, while most european countries have plenty of ads, shows etc on regular tv with nudity, breastfeeding and the like and it's not considered 'dirty'.
sex isn't dirty unless you make it dirty in your own mind... the human body isn't dirty, it's the best damn machine you'll ever own... breastfeeding isn't dirty, it's lovely and normal and it's a sexually repressed society that sees it as something that needs to be hidden from view. this all just reminds me of george carlin's famous phrase.... 'there are no bad words, just bad thoughts'. in the sense that it's the thought the person viewing the woman and child has, in their own mind, about this event which offends them. and here we are speaking of perceptions, perhaps with feelings of guilt for looking or even wanting to look, that are the product of a sexually repressed society.
that said... it would seem to me that the flight attendant might have asked the woman to cover up to quell her own urge to watch, which she probably didn't understand and may have felt guilty about, thus causing her discomfort.... just an idea... | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 1:24:11 PM | I agree totally...a child is in need of food, why because of others discomfort should that child not feed...Women should be allowed to breast feed where, when and how they want,
It is okay for women to walk around nude, but not okay for a women to feed he child....hmmm...what's up with the world...
Look at some of the images here on POF, my God shoudl they be asked to leave... | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 492 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 7:25:03 PM | | It wasn't so long ago that women who were obviouslypregnant weren't supposed to go out in public ,the word pregnant was even considered bad...things have changed......right??? Why should women have to go sit in a stinky bathroom?? | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 12/31/2006 7:40:46 PM | Breastfeed everywhere and anywhere. It is natural, beautiful and life giving. Once one gets skillful, it can be done with minimal disruption to anyone.
Don't we want to live in a world where our children feel loved, safe and are provided with all the best that life and parents can give....the benifits of breast feeding are actually astounding...the fulfillment of an individual eventually has the potential to lead to a more fulfilled society. Non? | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 494 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/1/2007 1:24:46 PM | ^^^ as long as you don't discriminate against those who can't.- I think that can cause problems too..................gets people's backs up; then their posts get deleted! | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/3/2007 2:02:37 PM | chinua...
oh well, we can always offer a friendly boob to their baby... in old fashioned wet-nurse style ;)
chardit... lovely post...
didn't all the bras get burned along with the draft cards some 40 years ago??? i'd like to live the 60's over as a twenty something... probably would be in a commune somewhere in the us (not spain, not then).
there was so much evolution, revolution in those days... what happened to us???
and when did the 60's become 'in those days'...... seems like another life, another planet... | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/3/2007 4:30:57 PM | | I breastfed both my babies. I was always covered up in public to avoid the eyes of people by my choice. I do think it is a mother's choice. If people don't like seeing it, they do not have to look. If children ask parents questions, it is a good opportunity to explain to a child what the mother is doing. For those that stare, didn't your mothers teach you it is impolite to stare? | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/4/2007 1:31:28 AM | evclora, msg 462;
That was hilarious and so TRUE!
Late;
Thank you for taking the time and putting forth the effort to keep us apprised of the facts. Though it's interesting to note that despite these facts/truths the ones here that want to pretend the attendant was correct in her despotic behavior don't care about the truth; they insist:
but I do think she should of covered up and not made it a big deal. I think the attendant has a lot more insight and common sense than what she is being given credit for. She just asked her to cover up.
Sort of reminds me of the OJ jury..........they could have been shown a video of OJ committing the crimes and they would have still found him 'Not Guilty'........just cuz facts/proof are not as important to them as what they think. In fact some of them stated as much after the trial was over.
Whether we agree with the facts or not is another issue but to insist that the attendant's behavior was correct despite the facts proving otherwise is invalid and unjustifiable. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/4/2007 4:18:21 PM | | I can't imagine why anyone would be offended by a woman feeding her child. Is this the year 2007 or 1807? Regarding the suggestion to place a blanket over you and your child - would YOU like to have to eat with a blanket over YOUR head? | |
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Ahhh!
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Joined: 11/25/2006
Msg: 499 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/5/2007 12:41:36 PM | | I don't think it is offensive to see a Mother Breastfeeding her child in public. And, especially on an airplane--how many ppl could have seen her? And, if they were offended, they didn't have to look. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 1/5/2007 6:02:59 PM | As long as the mother keeps her breast and baby covered, not a problem for me.  | |
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