| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 6:01:26 AM | Lets face facts here;
Mother's rights - to breast feed her baby, you can not take liquids on to planes any more not even water so she would have had to breast feed with out extracting there was no other way to breast feed.
Passengers rights - to be respected.
Hence if she wanted to feed she should have had the decency to cover up.
I breast fed for two years and never made anyone feel uncomfortable it is called respect. It is something which should not be flaunted but rather kept between mother and child. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 6:20:31 AM | | Call me old fashioned, but I don't like to have to watch it. What is the freaking big deal refusing the blanket. That is arrogant and disrespectful to others. Maybe she had a hidden agenda of wanting to show off her breasts. Just because there actually was a recent article about picking your nose and eating it being healthy doesn't mean I have a right to pick my nose and eat it anywhere I feel like it. | |
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~S~
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Joined: 10/12/2006
Msg: 78 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 6:21:57 AM | Another thing...
Once those little arms start moving around, the Mother sometimes has no control over keeping her breasts covered. Baggy sweatshirts get pulled up to the chin and blankets are remove just so the child can see what going on around them. Maybe she refused the blanket knowing there was going to be a struggle.
Nursing Mothers Rule  | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 7:02:26 AM | Just from reading the articles on her location on the plane my guess is that the only person who was able to see her breastfeeding was the flight attendant.
Edit
Give that flight attendant a break, she was in a no-win situation where she was just trying to make sure everyone's needs were met - compromise
There was no compromise. The attendant asked her to use a blanket, she refused and moments later a ticket agent kicked her off the plane. Doesn't sound like much of a compromise to me. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 10:22:52 AM | | I can't believe this thread has gone on for four pages. Who the hell cares? We spend entirely too much time minding other people business. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 11:53:59 AM | The fact is people are repressed, so she has to take the blanket and cover up on the flight and breast feed under the blanket.
Yes it is beautiful and natural, great, now she has to breast feed under the blanket. If the kid has trouble in the dark, she can bring a little chemical light to make the new experience more at home. Those little sticks that you bend and twist and they create a soft little light with no fire hazard. Chemical light sticks. That would help the little kid feel at home under the blanket and mark his target.
As long as the kid can see the nipple and not panic in the dark under the blanket then things should be okay. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 1:45:58 PM | | The woman was sitting by the window; her husband was on the aisle, blocking other passenger's view *at the back of the plane* She wasn't turning in her seat so all could see what she was doing. You talk discretion...seems to me she was utilizing as much discretion as she felt necessary to meet the needs of her child, as well as those around her. No one was being *forced* to look her way; no one was being *made to* see what she was doing. The flight attendant brought more attention to the situation by trying to give her a blanket when nothing had to have been said. Why should she have to be more concerned with someone being offended by a nursing baby than offering her child the comfort and breast milk it still receives? Here's a big shocker: If you don't want to see someone doing something, don't look! We have that capability; most use it every day in various situations. Another poster said it: We spend entirely too much time in other people's business, which is exactly being done by people saying a nursing mother should have to feed her child under a shroud, imo. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 3:39:46 PM | Yes, but people don't own visual space.
If you don't want to see someone doing something, don't look!
Did she buy or rent the aircraft window? Maybe she did? Privacy is not the ability to control other people. It is the ability to control yourself.
She didn't buy the space over the seat, she only bought the seat.
If any person on that plane is walking by and looking out the window and sees her, she is liable for her actions. She didn't buy the window either, other people in the row and in fact the entire aircraft and look out the window and see her in the biological process of moving the eye to a target, the window view, for example. If 12 people are looking out at London below, she can breast feed or give them the finger, either way she will bear the legal consequences.
We don't buy our visual space, society in the tax system owns it. We can paint our houses flourescent green but the society will govern us. If we don't want to be governed by society, then we fly on our own private jets.
A private jet is an option for her, if she uses her mind, and studies.
Personally I feel she should squirt the milk all over the plane. I think every woman should be forced to breast feed and given a pump to fake it if they can't (I'm Joking). It's sexy. I'm a liberal, but hey, why should I not give her accurate legal advice? She might consider me Hot.
Our USA society is killing over 650,000 Iraqi women and children, but we can't breast feed on our aircraft. It reminds me of Apocalypse Now in which Brando says that great line about the hypocrisy of Vietnam war.
What if everybody started fondling eachother, because the other human being really needed it? What if guys started pulling it out and masturbating? It's all natural and good, right? Stops the bickering, calms the emotions. Nobody has to look.
What if people breastfeed, strip, masturbate under the blankets? If it's a long night flight and two young lovers are needy? Where do we draw the line? Sexual organs in public evoke natural sexual thoughts and responses. The breast and nipple are sexual organs. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 4:00:45 PM | (1) It was not a baby. It was a toddler. A toddler with teeth. A toddler that could have eated solid food or taken a bottle for a 1/2 hour.
(2) She was NOT asked to stop feeding the toddler just to cover up a tad.
(3) Since she was in the next to last row...ANY child... any person on the way to the bathroom needs to pass her. Her better choice should have been the first few rows.
Right or wrong some people and some parents would prefer not to have it seen.
Again...why is lack of discretion on her part viewed as a "problem" of all of the posters here who think she probably should have covered up her kid. Geeez...my kids were in pre-school at that age.
Personally I could care less if she were naked, but I'm not most people. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 4:02:52 PM | Isn't that an old Joni Mitchell song??
Breast feeding...on a jet plane.
Don't know if I'll do that again? | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 86 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:02:42 PM | The flight attendant was punished because breast feeding is protected
by law.
The woman claimed she need not cover up because it's her right.
Funny thing, on Thursday at a mall I saw a woman reach down and pull out
her very large breast. It was like....hanging out as she brought her
baby up close to it. WOW....she looked at me straight in the eye while
her breast was ebbing in all directions....cough cough...ok, I wasn't prepared
for that but it's her right and it's protected. If it weren't for the baby
it would have been arousing and let me tell you...it was HUGE! That baby
won't starve. Good thing I wasn't having cookies for lunch because.... | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:18:04 PM | Again,
Not once was she told she could not nurse her son. Not once. So her rights to feed in public were not violated. I'm not sure the law states that you must be allowed to not cover up does it? | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 88 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:25:41 PM | Skellon said that after the flight attendant ordered Gillette off the plane, the captain of the Delta Air Lines flight being operated by Freedom apologized and asked her family to reboard, but they refused.
I didn't see that. She sounds like a crusader and was looking to exasperate
the problem. Now she probably thinks she's entitled to about $2 billion to help
her find happiness again.
What ever happend to bottle feeding?
Get over it, it is natural.
Lot's of natural things can get you 10 to life in prison. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:26:02 PM | | When I was a little boy I saw people breast feed all of the time. It was common and nobody made a big deal of it. I suspect if the child had not been older they would not have made a big deal out of it this time. Nobody get more turned on by boobs and nipples than I do but when they are used for what they were intended its just not sexual and has no effect on me at all. Get over it, it is natural. | |
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sidz
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Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 90 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:39:26 PM | and there was me thinkin this was a thread about the sequel to snakes on a plane ... a piece of arthouse cinema that really gets you thinking .
The way i see things with regards to breastfeeding is if you are going somewhere public (eg: shopping, public transport or the circus) then try and feed the child in question before you head out, if this isnt possible and the kid gets vocaly hungry when youre out in the public eye then so be it, feed the child. If people are offended then it is their problem not yours. Not something i look foreward to seeing but it beats listenin to a hungry kid screaming out for nourishment. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:47:52 PM |
Lot's of natural things can get you 10 to life in prison.
Feeding your hungry child in public isn't one of them. | |
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chinua
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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 92 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 5:54:52 PM | since none of us were there; how can we say what happened?? like I said before; any witnesses give their side?? there are at least 3 sides to every story. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 6:39:48 PM |
My personal opinion is that yes, it is illegal to deny a woman the right to breast feed in public and it is a natural and wonderful thing to nuture your child. However, they did not try to stop her or hinder her. They only asked her to please cover with the blanket. It would have taken two seconds to put the blanket over her shoulder (and her husband was there to help)... She is the one who chose not to comply and had to deal with the consequences.
I agree with you... that she should have been allowed to do it, but with the restriction of covering up.
I have always thought that the 'it's natural' argument was very weak. It's just as natural to pee, so I suppose we should all be allowed to pee in public too. ;) | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 94 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 6:59:16 PM | ^^^ Anything that the body excretes is considered natural but the only
thing permitted to be ejaculated in public is lactose.
...maybe milk is the only consumable part of the body and why it's legal. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 7:05:01 PM |
...maybe milk is the only consumable part of the body and why it's legal.
Hmm.... Perhaps one day, when I am married, and when my wifey is lactating, I can breastfeed in public too! :P
Hey, its natural!! :) | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 96 | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 97 | |
| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 7:28:58 PM |
It's just as natural to pee, so I suppose we should all be allowed to pee in public too.
Don't forget breathing, that's natural too. | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 7:51:18 PM | The rest of the story..
Flight Attendant Disciplined in Breast-Feeding Incident
BURLINGTON, Vt. (Nov. 17) - A commuter airline has disciplined a flight attendant who ordered a passenger off a plane for refusing to cover herself with a blanket while breast-feeding her toddler, the airline said Friday.
Freedom Airlines spokesman Paul Skellon did not specify the discipline in an e-mail announcing the action against the employee who had Emily Gillette, of Santa Fe, N.M., removed from the plane Oct. 13 at Burlington International Airport.
Gillette, 27, said she was breast-feeding her 22-month-old daughter in a window seat in the next-to-last row, with no part of her breast showing and her husband between her and the aisle.
The flight attendant tried to hand her a blanket and told her to cover up, Gillette said. She declined, telling the flight attendant she had a legal right to nurse her daughter. Breast-feeding is protected under state law.
The case received broad news coverage this week, days after Gillette filed a complaint with the Vermont Human Rights Commission. On Wednesday, about 30 parents and their children protested the airline's treatment of Gillette by staging a "nurse-in" at the Burlington airport.
Skellon said that after the flight attendant ordered Gillette off the plane, the captain of the Delta Air Lines flight being operated by Freedom apologized and asked her family to reboard, but they refused.
Gillette, however, said the airline never offered her a chance to get back on board the New York-bound plane. "I would have jumped at the opportunity," she said.
Delta paid for a hotel room and rebooked the family on a different airline the next day.
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/flight-attendant-disciplined-in-breast/20061117180409990002
So, the captain got off the plane to quietly correct the mistake of the flight attendant.
Emily Gillette refused. Delta then arranged for the family to stay overnight and put them on another flight the next day.
The attendant was disciplined.
And Emily Gillette sued.
Now, the grounds for this suit are...difficult. The flight captain reports that he immediately tried to get the family back on the plane and she refused.
She claims he never offered. So, we got conflicting stories and no supporting independent witnesses that we know of.. We do know that they got their flight, albeit delayed. What a minor mess.
This was a case of minor individual error. Blown up by bored press into a huge controversy.
NOBODY said that she couldn't nurse. All that was said that she needed to be a bit more discreet. Mom gets pissy. Flight attendant gets pissy. Voices raised, then a mistake in judgment is made. I'll bet good money the flight captain really did try to correct the issue by inviting Mom and family back on board after apologizing. His ass was on the line, and most airlines, in their current precarious industry finance woes, knows that bad publicity is going to be unwelcome among the corporate heads.
But we can't really tell what happened. Guess that will come out in court. Presuming that a law was actually broken.
Hmmm. What law was that? | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 8:25:07 PM |
It's just as natural to pee, so I suppose we should all be allowed to pee in public too
please tell me people are really not stupid enough to compare the two?
give me a break | |
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| Breastfeeding on a plane.
Posted: 11/25/2006 8:45:17 PM | | The only issue here is property rights. That is all that matters. Your right to breast feed does not trump the rights of the airline. Had this taken place on public street and a governmnet official provided the blanket we would then have a real debate about the right to breast feed in public. But this was a privately owned airliner. What ever rules of conduct they want to enforce is up to them. If you do not like their rules then fly on another airline. | |
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