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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 6:34:44 AM |
Excuse me if I am blunt, but Ok, some of you were abused.
SO WHAT?
I ask again:
SO WHAT?
We have a better understanding of the topic than most. That's what.....
They're your lives. You fix them. You may ASK for support. You may ASK for understanding. But you can't DEMAND support. You can't DEMAND understanding. You can't DEMAND love. You can't say "I was abused, you have to cope with my bullshit or I will think you're selfish and narrow-minded".
Who's saying that? We take offense to being called "damaged goods" like we're something you can pick up off the shelf and put back because we're somehow not good enough.Take Ceno, he admits that he was abused by exes who had been abused...does that mean we should take his advice and run anytime he comes near? I've never asked any man I've dated to cope or else. But his reaction to things that have happened is a good indicator of the type of man he is. If they run, I don't think they're selfish or narrow-minded. If anything, I'm more openminded than people like Ceno. I don't see every man as an abuser.....yet he sees every abused woman as "not worth it". Who do you think is more emotionally healthy?
Nobody has the duty to stay in a relationship where his/her needs are not being fulfilled. And having being abused in the past does not relieve anybody of his/her relationship work.
I agree.
You think I'm narrow-minded. I think you're crazy. Who is right?
I think no such thing. You may think I'm crazy if you like, but having some guy use me as a punching bag for almost 2 years is not what defines me as a person. As a matter of fact, I rarely think about it. If a man chooses to give me labels and stay away from me because of it, then oh well, we're not suited anyway.
If you are not willing to deal with your own issues, why do you demand others to deal with them?
I have, and I haven't...it's something I had to come through. Sure, it would have been nice to have someone in my life to be my sounding board...but I knew it wouldn't have been fair.
It is this "I was abused, you OWE me" mindset what makes a woman damaged goods. Not the abuse itself.
I don't know ONE abused woman with this attitude. Not one. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 6:40:05 AM | I'll say it again...its really no suprise that some of you are single! The attitudes of some of you men (and some women) towards abused women...and women in general...amaze me.
I hope to God that none of your female (or male) family members ever haveto suffer abuse. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 8:20:10 AM | Who's saying that?
I've read this whole thread, and that's one of the prevalent attitudes.
We take offense to being called "damaged goods" like we're something you can pick up off the shelf and put back because we're somehow not good enough.
Somehow I don't read it like that. If somebody damaged you, you are damaged until the time when you heal and everything is well again. It doesn't mean to "put you back on the shelf". It means acknowledgement of a consequence of some type of abuse, and the start of the healing process.
I've never asked any man I've dated to cope or else. But his reaction to things that have happened is a good indicator of the type of man he is.
Ok. Let's say a guy witnesses some type of crisis, freaks out and leaves. Does it mean he is a "bad" type of man?
I don't know ONE abused woman with this attitude. Not one.
Really? Let's see. The guy must understand... the man must earn my trust... he must work a lot.. he must go through my defenses...he must be careful... he must ... he must ... he must. If at least I've had read one "I know it's hard for him". But whaddayaknow, there is none. Not even ONE of the posters saw the relationship from the point of view of the other person, nor acknowledged that their crisis may have have been hard on their partners. Not even one. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 8:35:20 AM | Okay, obviously there is a difference of opinion here! Some have been abused and others have been taken for a ride by the person who had been abused...
But really, all I am trying to say is that the person who had been abused CAN heal and go on to have healthy relationships. WILL she? perhaps not, but I am saying that that IS a distinct possiblity that should not be completely disregarded.
I hate to concede Ceno, but I suppose you cannot always tell, especially when someone is lying to themselves about the level of baggage they are carrying. I guess I used myself as an example there because I WAS honest with myself and others.
Just to clarify, the abuse I experienced was 14 years ago, I have healed and dealt with it, I have also been involved in a healthy relationship since then. I know that it is possible.
Once again, the words "whack job" and "damaged goods" are insulting to the women who HAVE dealt with their past and are now stronger and better for all they have experienced. But it truly says more about those who are saying it, then those who have triumphed. | |
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| READ THIS FROM NOW ON:Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 9:43:22 AM | dayum Ceno, you're gettin mad luv in here
Just to clarify what I've read here, in his original post, he said women that HAVE NOT dealt with their abusive pasts are damaged good.
HAVE NOT
Ladies, in future posts, please bear that in mind. I've seen a couple dozen replies of "I had this (insert abusive thing here) happen to me in the past and i've turned out fine, I'm not damaged!"
He didn't say that. You've dealt with it, moved on, been better for it. For that you should be applauded.
His warning of caution(or in his case the 100m sprint) is for those women who still have open wounds and have done nothing to better themselves. You've all read the stories of men being attacked unprovoked by women who are still suffering. The laws these days are widely stacked against men when it comes to domestic disputes and for the most part, they work well, but as you have seen here, innocent men get marked for life for playing defence.
And personal attacks, people?? C'mon, lets be grownups here. Insulting Ceno only makes your posts appear less knowledgeable, stop give it a rest. | |
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| READ THIS FROM NOW ON:Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 12:19:40 PM | ^^Actually, if you read Ceno's first two posts, he didn't say anything about whether thay have healed or dealt with the abuse, he simply states that 99% of women who have been abused are damaged goods.
I wasn't attacking Ceno in my last post, in fact, I conceded to one of his points. Perhaps you need some reading glasses? | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 1:20:55 PM | Ceno you are right, it never ever heals, no matter what they say.
(snip)
I met someone, off of this website who seemed ok at the time. I didn't call her for a few days after two dates and she left 37 voice mails on my phone, 15 emails on one account, and 10 on the other account. 37 VOICEMAILS! Telling me how she was abused as a child and all that. WTF! Where did that come from? Left field? I knew she was a wacko after that, and told her to stay away from me. This was all after approximately 10 DAYS of knowing her!!!
I think it would be fun to see what would happen if a woman asked the same thing...I wonder what all of the answers would be???
Razor1994,
I used to be one of those obsessed women who did what you describe, and I can tell you directly that it CAN heal, but only if the obsessive person is willing to look at his/her own behaviour and quit making others out as the problem: I was my worst problem, and I brought all that onto myself. Now, when I was abused, I didn't deserve it, but I did cause some of my past relationships great harm by acting like a psycho.
The fact that I can admit this candidly should, I hope, let you know that it's not impossible to get through this.
I will regress if I don't keep my head together, tho'. That is just a fact. If I let my emotions run my conduct, I'll be right back where I started, only worse, since now I have healthy coping skills, and can choose to not blame anyone else.
As for if you asked a woman the same thing? Well, ask away, I've been on both sides of this fence. I have met guys who were abused, and if they haven't made the effort to grow and learn from it, I stay wa-a-a-a-a-ay the heck out of their path. I don't need that grief.
__________________________________PS______________
I heard this somewhere, it's not verbatim but the gist is:
"A public speaker is giving a self-esteem talk one day, during which this was said,
'The problem with insecure people is that they take every little comment personally.'
Just then one of those in attendance piped up, 'Well, I don't!'" | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 3:14:24 PM | It is so funny that all of the attackers on this thread are exactly the ones I was talking about. I'm not attacking anyone personally (aquarius), you seem to think this is a gender issue here or something. Don't even let this issue go on gender lines. Ceno is right, there are alot of unhappy, angry, abused women in the world, and men need to stay away from them if they want a happy and healthy relationship. There are also alot of unhappy, angry men in this world--but in my opinion there seems to be alot more women who are just whacked out of their minds. Like i said before, there is a victim mentality that alot of women just seem to carry with them.
The whole point of the thread is this: why waste your time on an unhealthy, angry person who was once abused??? Do they deserve love? Of course. Do they deserve understanding? Of course. Nobody is saying that. What Ceno and i are saying is that we don't want to deal with it--and we don't owe anyone the benefit of the doubt at all. Stay away from people who have mental issues and try to find someone who is healthy. That is why we are here--to find someone we are compatible with. Who wants to go through a bunch of hurdles to find a good relationship? Its hard enough already!
Yeah, maybe it does just take the right guy to help someone like that. But if you can't help yourself through therapy or some other method why would you depend on a man to help you through it? We're the enemy, remember? You can't trust us, remember? We are all out to abuse, control, and use women, remember?
Get help and get over it before you even think about getting in a relationship. If you cannot get over it you need to stay single, because you are throwing potential partners under the bus. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 3:24:52 PM | As men we need to protect, as women you need to receive. It's a shame when people forget that and make a mockery out of being human by breaking someone. Only women bleed right ?
Men........ start being better.
Protect like we're supposed to. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 5:40:03 PM | I have tons of other stories like this with different abused women, I'd been with.
I have my reasons to believe to what I believe....rest is BS.
There's your mistake Ceno...believing that your experience is the reality. There's the difference between you and me. I don't see all men as potential abusers, but you see all abused women as being just like your ex.
I've never been abusive to a man (although I did hit one once). Before you jump on that, he was my abuser, had punched me first, and was coming in for another swing. I realized what he was bringing out in me, and got out. I've never raised my hand to anyone since.
Somehow I don't read it like that. If somebody damaged you, you are damaged until the time when you heal and everything is well again. It doesn't mean to "put you back on the shelf". It means acknowledgement of a consequence of some type of abuse, and the start of the healing process.
That's the attitude I'm getting from people like Ceno...who say to run. Isn't that giving up? Isn't that staying away because you don't want to deal with it? I don't see myself as damaged goods because an older guy took advantage of me when I was 17. If anything, the abuse has made me more compassionate and understanding... I'm somewhat grateful to him for that.
Ok. Let's say a guy witnesses some type of crisis, freaks out and leaves. Does it mean he is a "bad" type of man?
Not at all. Obviously it's something he can't/doesn't want to deal with. That's why I don't place expectations on anyone...well, except for the obvious. But I do take offense to someone assuming that I'm not "worth" as much as someone who hasn't been through what I've been through, simply because I've been abused. That's as unfair as saying that someone who's been another type of traumatic experience (like a car crash) is a total of that experience and should be judged on that alone. It isn't fair.
Really? Let's see. The guy must understand... the man must earn my trust... he must work a lot.. he must go through my defenses...he must be careful... he must ... he must ... he must. If at least I've had read one "I know it's hard for him". But whaddayaknow, there is none. Not even ONE of the posters saw the relationship from the point of view of the other person, nor acknowledged that their crisis may have have been hard on their partners. Not even one.
I don't know of any abusive women that I talk to who think like this. I seriously don't. The only concession I've asked of men because of my past is to never hit me, cheat on me, or call me a slut/whore. You know, the same concessions a "healthy" never-abused woman would expect. I've never asked how hard it was for my partner because it never became an issue for us. I made sure I had time to heal before I even became involved with him. If he asked specific questions, I answered in a matter of fact way, and it never came between us at all until AFTER he left. He did something that triggered an anxiety attack.
The whole point of the thread is this: why waste your time on an unhealthy, angry person who was once abused??? Do they deserve love? Of course. Do they deserve understanding? Of course. Nobody is saying that. What Ceno and i are saying is that we don't want to deal with it--and we don't owe anyone the benefit of the doubt at all. Stay away from people who have mental issues and try to find someone who is healthy. That is why we are here--to find someone we are compatible with. Who wants to go through a bunch of hurdles to find a good relationship? Its hard enough already!
That may be what you mean, but it's not what these posts are coming across as. You shouldn't assume that an abusive past automatically equals unhealthy and angry.There's an attitude here that any woman who has been abused should automatically be passed on because of the abuse. It's just as bad as some abused women saying that all men should be passed on simply because males tend to be the abusers. It's illogical and short-sighted.
Protect like we're supposed to.
What in the world do you mean? I don't need anyone to protect me.I'm doing just fine on my own, thank you very much. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 5:51:39 PM | WOW. i haven't posted anything on here before but i couldn't help it at this point. how dare you judge someone who has been abused? do you have any idea how hard they had to have fought to get through and past it. the one that it didn't break are prolly some of the strongest people you'll meet. this is aimed a ceno by the way cause i have no idea where it will pop up on here.  thanks for the rant. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 6:36:41 PM | Excuse me? What the hell are you talking about?
I am so tired of women like you, you have no idea how idiotic you sound. After this last post, you proved me and others how difficult to deal with someone like you...
Women like me? I could read so much into that....sigh.I'm simply pointing out that YOUR experience with abused women does not make all abused women like your exes. I assume that you feel that you shouldn't be judged by the actions of abusers (that's what I'm taking from your posts)?. So why do you think it's fine for you to do the same to abused women because they abused you? I don't think I'm being "difficult" or "idiotic" because I'm pointing out how illogical your stance is.
Christ! you telling me my past experinces are not the REALITY. What??!! I have the court papers to PROVE IT!!...and to you thats not the reality??
Again, you think all of your experiences should be applied to "99%" of women who have been abused (why don't you just say all?). If I were following your logic, I'd expect every man (Okay...99%) I meet to hit me in the face with a plate for not cutting his sandwich the right way, to choke me until unconcious because I sat too close to his brother, to throw me on the floor and jump on me because I played cards with his mom, his sister and a male neighbour...
But I don't. And do you know why? Because it makes as much sense to do that as it makes for you to assume that women who have been abused are "damaged goods" and that men need to run away from them...I know that my experiences with that man are not the REALITY when it comes to other men.
I dont know which planet your living at..BUT STAY THERE!!! We dont need this level of intelligence here!!
I'll leave that one alone. It speaks for itself.
You make me REPEAT myself but hey ONE LAST TIME, read all my posts!! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. then you will see I DO NOT PUT EVERY ABUSED WOMEN IN THE SAME BASKET!!
Nope, but you'll put 99% (your words) of them there, and advise others to run if they encounter an abused woman, no matter if they're one of your other 1% or not. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 6:48:40 PM | Why take a chance on someone like that when there is other women around that are mentally sound and healthy? Thats the point of the original question. Sure, at the beginning they all sound like they are perfectly normal, but you can sense that "somethin' ain't right here." You either go with your gut and move on--quickly--or risk all of that coming out later after you already get emotionally involved. Which is better in the long run?
Brandi, thats exactly what i am saying. Pass them up and go for someone else. Life is too short. Oh, and by the way, these days most women believe that men are abusers anyway...so that argument does not really stand up.
This is so much b.s. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to get all defensive about it. Everyone has a choice, and i choose not to date anyone who is already damaged goods. So what? | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 6:52:48 PM | To all who have been calm and respectful and nonjudgemental...thank you.
To all who believe anyone, male or female who has been abused...and are damaged goods...please reconsider.
To all who believe anyone, male or female who has been abused and has dealt with their issues could possibly have a little more insight...hello, I love you.
To all who would swear before anyone's god that they have no baggage...step to the back of the room.
I think we need a facilitator here....Ceno is starting to yell. I visualize blood vessels bursting. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 7:18:00 PM | You're comparing "mentally, physically, sexually" abused women to healhty men out there.
But you're not healthy, are you Ceno? Because if you were, you wouldn't base your opinion of abused women on the few (I assume) that you've met.
You have no right to expect a man you just met, to hit you in the face or claim that he is an abuser. He did NOT do anything to you to deserve that expectation!
Of course not. That's what I've been saying all along. And the majority of abused women did nothing to you to deserve the expectation that they are all nutcases, or will be abusive...
But I have every right to expect an ABUSED women to act in a certain way. Not because of my previous experiences but because of her PAST.
Based on what? Oh, that's right, YOUR experience.YOUR past. Why should the rest of us have to pay for what's happened to you? It doesn't make sense to me that you should expect what's happened in your life to be applied to everyone, when you don't want what's happened in our lives to apply to you....
But I doubt that you're. Here is the quote Kwerki posted ; "'The problem with insecure people is that they take every little comment personally'". And your name is written all over it.
I'm not taking it personally at all. I find it to be an interesting debate between people who have let their pasts define them (on both sides) and those who can see past it and not let it colour their future. You think it's taking it personally that you claim that I (as an abused woman) am in the same catagory as your exes simply because we have things in common, and I call you on it because it's illogical? Meh, whatever. But I'm not the one who is getting angry and saying people are idiotic because they don't agree with me, am I?
You know, you have one thing in common with my ex...he also questioned my intelligence when he didn't understand/agree with where I was coming from. So should I expect that because you have this in common, that I should label you as an abuser? Of course not. I'm smarter than that. | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 8:30:06 PM | | I am empathetic with Ceno's position. I too have been in a relationship with someone who was abused. The difference? I am a woman. He was abused by his stepfather and he was abused by two ex-wives. He like the other men that I've read about was charged for assault while defending himself. The result? Just over a year ago after being in a relationship with this man for 3 years, I got in a cab with my 1 year old daughter and went to a shelter. A homeless shelter. One fight too many, and I just couldn't stay because I too wanted to strike out at him. From there I was transfered to an abused women's shelter. Why? I thought? I haven't been abused. What I've come to realize since is yes I have. Emotionally, with scars not visable.So, I suppose in Ceno's eyes this makes me a wack job, damaged goods and not capable of being in a loving happy relationship.Therefore ceno(and others) while I empathise with the pain you have experienced, I am deeply saddened by your seemingly (and I stress seemingly) narrow minded view of the world. I've certainly been in your shoes but if I were to meet someone who trusted me enough to confide with me of a troubled past, I hope I have the strength to judge them on the person they are rather then the past from which they(and I) have come. I work each day to talk to people with the confidence I had going into that relationship. I have read the posts. While the carriage in which you carry yourself may be a deterent, it certainly isn't a shield. I was a strong, confident, happy woman. I was well eduacated. I still am educated and work every day to be confident and happy. It is definitely a process. Maybe it always will be. I am not defined by my past but I am certainly shaped by it. It has made me who I am today and while I'd never want to relive it I certainly really like who I've become | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 8:53:34 PM | Im not sure I am following why everyone seems to be on Ceno's ass about this. Although I may have chosen different words, I fully understand what he is attempting to put out there. My ex was an abused woman that I tried despirately to help for 14 years. It did no good.
Ceno spoke of damaged goods..........and everyone got pissed off.
If I follow what he is trying to say correctly, it is that a lot of prior abused women, once it has happened to them, carry it around like baggage that they almost refuse to let go of.
My ex actually tried to get me to BE abusive to her. I withstood her attacks, her name calling, then her drinking, her drugs........even her first boyfriend she cheated on me with. I tried to get her all the help I could find. She would just stop going and keep on with the B.S........... when I wouldn't falter, she went and found herself another abusive BF to cheat with. This time, I booted her out, she lives with him, is beaten regularly and is happy as a ****in' lark !
Ceno's views are not skewed in my opinion......... it's a hard row to hoe............
now.......Pardon me Ceno, I gotta get outta here.........
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ecleo
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Joined: 11/16/2006
Msg: 120 | |
| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 9:04:08 PM | While my first instinct is to attack, I must say, he does have a point. Overcoming physical/sexual abuse by a relative/lover can be an insurmountable task. The scars may never quite fade away, the wounds take decades to heal, and the memories may always surface.
But "damaged goods" Ceno? What a hideous choice of words.
Two cliches that are true...
1. Its not what happens to you, its how you deal with it.
2. Every moment in your life has made you who you are today.
I was sexually abused, and according to Ceno that makes me "damaged goods". I admit yes, for many years my abuse dictated me and my self defeating behaviors.
Its been a long journey, but TODAY, I am one of the healthiest, happiest, most self-aware individuals I know. I do not have issues with sex, trust, men or intimacy. I do not hate men, I do not even hate the abuser. In addition, coming to terms with my own abuse has enabled me to help others who have been abused.
While Ceno has a point, women who have been abused definitely have their issues. They're also strong,courageous survivors. Some of us even have it worked out, go figure.
I CAN NOT BELIEVE HE CALLED ABUSED WOMEN DAMAGED GOODS
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 9:30:20 PM |
I CAN NOT BELIEVE HE CALLED ABUSED WOMEN DAMAGED GOODS
See message #47.
msg#47....
No damage goods...ok
as long as I dont have to deal with one....I have no problem. Been there Done that. good luck to your future bfs/husbands etc...
nice Ceno.. take back the comment and then add another assault lol
the real conclusion here is that YOU yourself Ceno just aren't compatible with women who have an abused past because... well.. you just dont have compassion
solution; stay away from them | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 9:31:53 PM | If we were to be honest for a moment (without being defensive), having experienced abuse is a life alternating event which some people may define as damaged goods. In life, we've ALL experienced tramatic life alternating events in one way or another, such as abuse, death of loved ones, neglect, poverty, mental health issues, or addictions etc. These events combined with many positive life events do help to define us as a person. They are a part of who we are and I'll be the first to admit, that I'll never be the same person I once was. The ironic part is that now, I wouldn't want to be any other way.
It's important to remember not to throw the baby out with the bath water, because the truth of the matter is we all have issues! | |
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| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 9:41:15 PM | | I have been threw that and you think because you are a good guy that you can heal that, you can not! It takes time and you cannot do it. They have to do it on their own, you cannot do it for them. If you want to be a friend they can use that, a relationship will fail!! | |
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ecleo
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Joined: 11/16/2006
Msg: 125 | |
| Dating a woman who has been abused in the past
Posted: 11/27/2006 9:51:56 PM | Ceno is entitled to his opinion. But to say that 99% of abused women are unworthy of dating and that men should run from them?
Ceno is judging 99% of abused women on one terrible experience he had. In truth, by his own definition, Ceno is damaged goods. Oh the irony... | |
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