|
|
|
|
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:42:29 PM | I don't buy that for a second.
As with all coercive socialist "programs," too many people rush to bury their heads and ignore the inevitable, unforeseen consequences that will make everything worse down the road. Vaccines will almost certainly cause health problems in future years for people who submit to them -- or to their children if forced upon them by the act of poor parenting. I urge everyone to read one of the most important essays of all history: "That Which Is Seen And That Which Is Not Seen" by Frederic Bastiat.
Also, silver helps to prevent the spread of disease much better than anything else mankind could ever devise.
A side note: the direct cause of short-staffed health care facilities is socialism -- dirty socialism, just like with everything else government ever touches.
Wink. Grab some much-needed education at mises.org. | |
|
Xavery
|
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 52 | |
| Flu shots...
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:45:49 PM | | ^So are you suggesting that we all swallow some silver? Flu shots could lead to problems down the road. I don't get them but not for that reason. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 5/2/2008 10:41:52 PM | I only had one flu shot a few years ago & ended up with a veritable plethora of colds one after the other. Gack! (I had reservations about having one to begin with). Since then I never get 'em 'cos I don't see the point of introducing nasty foreign bugs into my body, especially as flu/cold viruses constantly mutate.
Penelope | |
|
XHTML
|
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 54 | |
| Flu shots...
Posted: 10/23/2008 9:02:54 AM | I got my flu shot yesterday, from my doctor. He charges only what it costs him, which is less than the Public Health charges.
I know there is some controversy on this matter and there are folks who refuse to get the flu shot, but I'm convinced its a good thing, at least for me.
I've been getting the flu shot every autumn for about 4-5 years now. I never have an side effects.
In years prior to getting the shots I'd get sick on average 3-4 times every year and it would be severe enough to knock me down for a few days at least. I was definitely too sick too work.
Since getting the flu shots I get sick at most once a year, if that, and the symptoms are so mild I can still function and work. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 10/23/2008 9:06:41 AM | | Don't believe in them. Build your own natural immunities people. Lick door handles and never wash your hands... | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 10/23/2008 12:18:35 PM | ^^^^^ hence we have the pig flu...
Oh, I shot the pig,
but I swear it was in self defense...ladidah.... | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 10/23/2008 4:33:22 PM | Vaccines will almost certainly cause health problems
I always got really sick for a few Days after Immunization when still young. At age 14 was my last one. I get maybe 1 minor, light and barely noticeable Flu once every 1 - 2 Years. In my Book, unless there is a specific Reason or Condition to get vaccinated, I wouldn't bother with it ever again.
I can see the Rationale in Schools, 'cause every little Peckerhead is gonna infect his Pals, so they cough in Unison during Music Class. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 6/3/2009 9:27:34 PM | | I don't get flu shots. I am wondering if more people will get the flu shot next year because they think it will help them beat things like the swine flu. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 6/5/2009 1:07:23 PM | BCTodd
Vaccines will almost certainly cause health problems in future years for people who submit to them -- or to their children if forced upon them by the act of poor parenting. I urge everyone to read one of the most important essays of all history: "That Which Is Seen And That Which Is Not Seen" by Frederic Bastiat. It would appear that your argument is that countless people should die needlessly in favor of preventing some few from potentially having future health problems. The lives and illness saved by vaccinations are not seen, but any health problems resulting from said vaccinations are easily visible. As Frederic mentions in that essay, and I daresay is at the very heart of what he was trying to tell us, is that "your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen."
In the 1950's there were 50 million new cases worldwide each year from smallpox. That single vaccine may have prevented a billion deaths so far, but little credit is given to things unseen. Flu vaccines prevent millions of deaths and illness yearly as well, unfortunately the negative aspects of vaccines are far more visible than the positive ones.
Personally I'd rather save innumerable lives with vaccines than worry that some people might have some health problems. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 6/5/2009 1:52:18 PM | Every situation has innumerable perspectives, and TRUTH, not opinions, is always difficult to discern.
My experience with vaccines has been interesting. My oldest child has been the only one who was partially immunized, the other 5 where not at all. My oldest child is the only one that has mild allergies to the natural environment (certain pollens), the other 5 have no allergies whatsoever.
[u]Conclusion:[/u] Could vaccines confuse our natural immune response? I suspect so.
Granted, I was immunized as a child in South America, many many years ago and have no allergies to anything either.
So I wonder:
*Do more modern vaccines have different contents and ingredients...is the quality the same?
*Would the quality of the vaccine vary according to the country?
*Does anyone ever read what they put in these vaccines...and would they want to have all that nasty stuff in their body?
*Are there not simpler and better ways to stimulate and strengthen the immune system, without the risks? Something more "NATURAL"?
IMO: of course there are...I look around me and notice a direct correlation between the amount of antibiotics and vaccines and immune suppression.
And then there are those who opt for a more "spiritual" form of healing. Fascinating!
MN | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 6/6/2009 8:51:24 PM | once you are dead you cannot contract pneumonia.
I have three children... the first two were partially immunized. I read all the literature available after my second child contracted the disease she was immunized for. The third child, HBAC, was never immunized and is my healthiest child. Being adults now they can make choices for immunization if they want.
I have been threatened with job loss due to refusal of immunization. So far with my "no immunization" track record I have not been ill. The people in my department (I work in health care) who get immunized... every year.... are sick throughout the fall, winter and spring. Sure don't want to follow in their footsteps. I like being healthy. Eat well, wash your hands, take care of your immune system. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 7:04:39 PM | So the BC Government announces today that the seasonal flu vaccination will not be available until after the vaccination program for the H1N1 flu (because having it will raise the risk for getting the H1N1 flu).
The H1N1 vaccine program won't start until November and health experts predict the flu will be here in October.
Somehow this advice doesn't seem adequate.
* Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.
* Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. Alcohol-based hand cleaners are also effective.
* Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Germs spread this way.
* Try to avoid close contact with sick people.
* If you get sick with influenza, CDC recommends that you stay home from work or school and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them.
In addition to avoiding shaking hands with people and get away from anyone who starts coughing or sneezing I am seriously considering how else I can lessen the risk. I wonder if eating lots of raw garlic and taking Echinacea will improve the odds of not getting sick. At least my eating copious amounts of garlic would keep those sick people at a respectable distance from me! | |
|
Moanie
|
Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 63 | |
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 7:09:37 PM | | ^^^its too bad we can't make that decision for ourselves..... either one or the other for a certain length of time. That way you could consult with your medical practitioner based on your own health needs..... | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 7:39:22 PM | This Bear is really shocked at the degree of anti-science terror and paranoia around here.
Vaccination is a very old, very well-understood treatment system that has proven itself incredibly useful and saved uncounted lives.
The idea that vaccines will "almost certainly cause health problems down the road" is completely without evidence or support.
The idea that natural immunities are "better" and that vaccines are "medications" which will make us more sensitive is incomprehensible. Vaccines BUILD our immunity rather than diminishing their own effectiveness. And they use antigens in natural organisms, or parts of them..
Many of the myths about autism, allergies and the like are so well debunked that every hoax site carries them, but paranoia rules. The thimerosol class action suit made the lawyers millions of dollars and made millions of people paranoid when a jury, despite pervasive evidence to the contrary, convicted based solely on their dislike of drug companies. And they said so. No study since then has found any evidence supporting the autism association.
People WITH allergies to elements of vaccines, most often eggs, can have allergic reactions. It is nearly (no, not totally) unknown to discover a new allergy in a vaccine because it's hard to live in our world without any previous exposure.
Sure, there are cases where a seat belt might be worse than no seat belt... but all we can do is try to improve our chances, not run in fear of the least likely event.
Look: say you are in a situation where doing A gets you fed 40%of the time and doing B gets you fed 60% of the time. The more B and less A you do, the better you eat. Your best course is to simply do B all of the time, and get fed 60% of the time.
But many people, seeing the 40% go unclaimed, still sometimes try A, lowering their success.
The same perfectly sound logic tells you that you come out ahead in lotteries by NOT playing them! Do people listen?
My experience: zero flus when immunized, over the last 15 years. (Cold are not related in any way to flu immunization or infection.) I have had mild weakness or low-grade fever (under 100F) on two occasions, each for less than a day.
Flu is NOT a cold - it usually makes you feel near-dead for a week or more, and recovery is slow, usually two weeks more for A class flus. And then you still risk bronchitis or pneumonia, which can also be triggered by a cold.
If you've had flu shots before, you have even lower risks of reaction. The more people immunized, the less chance you will get infected. Even if you scorn the shots, it's in your best interests to encourage others to take them.
Science isn't perfect. But it's wayyy ahead of uninformed suspicion or letting the S|-|1+ fall where it may. We already know what pandemics do. Are you ready to face bubonic plague or syphillis without medical science? Should we stop trying to cure infectious diseases?
ED BEAR
 | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 7:46:25 PM | crayolapink: My sister had 4 children...her last (with no immunization) is also the healthiest.
So the BC Government announces today that the seasonal flu vaccination will not be available until after the vaccination program for the H1N1 flu
Tamiflu....Gilead Sciences....Donald Rumsfeld....bird flu....BILLIONS spent....profits SOAR....no recession for them!
He also made a fine chunk of change getting aspartame approved.
Balled Eagle: Where did your quote come from? A Canadian site or American site? I ask because of two words...."CDC recommends..."
Science isn't perfect.
Of course not! But when more and more studies are funded by big pharma one does have to question their results. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 7:49:23 PM | By the way, silver nanoparticles ARE a good bacteria suppressant, but their long-term health effects are as yet relatively unstudied, and we know metal retention in the body brings problems. Influenza and colds are viruses, not bacteria.
Look to scientists, nor marketers and web spam, for sensible bases for decisions.
ED BEAR | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 7:59:44 PM | Well, well, well. You might be wondering as I am wtf is going on? Why is our government taking this study so seriously that states that getting a flu shot may increase your risk of getting H1N1?
If antibacterial soaps have led to the development of resistant bacteria, has the flu shot led to the development of resistant viruses? If this is the case, how could this happen and is H1N1 of them.
People over 65 have probably been exposed to something like H1N1 so the government probably feels it is save to let them have their flu shots.
We are being told to do this and that to protect ourselves from H1N1. I am washing my hands a little more. I am not really worried about getting the flu because my immune system is really strong. I just do not get flues. I have been blessed with a strong immune system but if I did not have one, I would be looking for ways to strengthen it.
I think that all this hand washing and door knob cleaning that I am seeing is going to make some people germaphobic and in away I wish people would relax a little bit about it.
I suppose some people are worried. I do not know of anyone who has had H1N1 yet but I guess it is just a matter of time. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/28/2009 9:13:30 PM | | I've only had a flu shot once...I was working in a gov't office and it was "strongly recommended". I experienced flu symptoms which were pretty mild, but lasted for over a week, as opposed to the 2-3 days of illness that I usually experience when I'm sick. I find that proper handwashing, keeping my hands off my face, and keeping my home and work spaces uber clean has helped to keep me healthier than getting a flu shot, and actually stopped me from getting lots of other non-flu-related illnesses like ear infections and tummy bugs that were going around at work in the last couple years. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/30/2009 4:49:30 AM | i have this psychotic friend who nags me (at weddings, funerals and other events that are actually happening in the present instead of on the computer whenever) never to get a flu shot because it's all supposed to be a big plot from the government and i have become so thoroughly sick of it all that i will now declare myself...
The PMS "Give Me All The Shots You Have" Passive Aggressive Douchebag 
p.s. as my irish grandmother used to say, "now all we can do is pray for a quick death!" LOL!!! bring it on...the suspense is Killing Me!!!! | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/30/2009 8:06:06 AM |
This Bear is really shocked at the degree of anti-science terror and paranoia around here.
Bravo, Bear, for posting valid information and a huge amount of good sense. I wonder if the general IQ level is dropping or something. It seems that more and more people are less and less able to seek out genuine information and, instead, prefer to subscribe to all manner of myth and urban legend and substitute that for true knowledge.
I am currently fighting a virus using Cold FX. In my experience, it hasn't quite got the power to fend off a 'flu but it does work on colds. I'll probably get an H1N1 shot since, due to allergies, I'm a little susceptible to bronchitis. | |
|
PiggyT
|
Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 71 | |
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/30/2009 8:24:30 AM | ^^^ To the above poster. If you read the ingredients on the bottle of COLD FX, you will note that it is basically Ginseng. You can purchase the real ginseng for a fraction of the cost of cold fx. I did this years ago and now use ginseng as part of my vitamin intake. It really helps (in my mind) and I pay relatively little in comparison to the "branded" product.
Just a suggestion | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/30/2009 8:50:17 AM |
This Bear is really shocked at the degree of anti-science terror and paranoia around here.
Some of the anti-vaccine campaigners are obviously nutty, but I think for most people the backlash against flu shots has much more to do with the rather strange ongoing campaign from health departments to push these shots on people. So "anti-authoritarian" would be a more accurate label.
Vaccination is a very old, very well-understood treatment system that has proven itself incredibly useful and saved uncounted lives.
Old, useful, and life-saving are beyond dispute. "Well-understood" is quite another matter.
Many of the myths about autism, allergies and the like are so well debunked that every hoax site carries them, but paranoia rules.
Paranoia? Yes. Debunked? No, that's an overstatement. The "debunkings" of these theories generally pull out large-scale statistical data, from which it's fair to say that there's no obvious global link between immunization and these sorts of disorders. However, a lack of evidence is not proof of no connection. The problem with this approach is that many of the things people look at (autism, MS, or almost any other neurological disorder) are hard and subjective to diagnose so it's not clear at all that a subtle effect could show up in statistics with the current state of medicine, no matter what the cause. Contrariwise, it is abundantly clear from case studies that mercury exposure can cause these sorts of disorders so being concerned about it is quite reasonable.
However valid or invalid the dispute, though, it doesn't really say anything about immunization - thimerosal is just a preservative and not a necessary ingredient of vaccines. Some don't contain it at all.
We already know what pandemics do. Are you ready to face bubonic plague or syphillis without medical science? Should we stop trying to cure infectious diseases?
There you go with the fear-mongering again. Polio and smallpox and such are undoubtedly worthwhile to immunize against. That doesn't mean that all diseases are.
The idea that natural immunities are "better" and that vaccines are "medications" which will make us more sensitive is incomprehensible
Will they make us more sensitive? I've never seen any evidence for it, personally. Are natural immunities generally longer-lasting? Absolutely! This is very well-established. I've cited one example below. Are natural immunities "better"? That depends on your point of view. If the disease has little risk of killing you, causing permanent damage or long-term complications then it's fair to say you're better off without immunization, isn't it?
I got tired of debating this point long ago and dug up some stats on the matter from a reputable medical journal. Here, I'll reiterate it for you all:
R. J. Cox, K. A. Brokstad, P. Ogra (2004)
Influenza Virus: Immunity and Vaccination Strategies. Comparison of the Immune Response to Inactivated and Live, Attenuated Influenza Vaccines
Scandinavian Journal of Immunology 59 (1), 1-15.
doi:10.1111/j.0300-9475.2004.01382.x
Link here:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.0300-9475.2004.01382.x?cookieSet=1
On the subject of how long vaccines last:
The antibody response peaks 2-3 weeks postvaccination in primed subjects [36, 73, 74], and then wanes over time and is generally twofold lower by 6 months' postvaccination [18]
CAVs induce nasal-wash antibodies, particularly IgA, which peak 2\u201311 weeks postvaccination and generally gradually declines by 6 months [23]
(The two quotes are from sections referring to the two different kinds of vaccine available).
Understand that protection doesn't simply disappear but declines with time.. It's just a quick summary to say they're good for "up to six months." The point is you can't even count on protection from one year lasting to the next year, let alone building up with time.
On the subject of natural immunity:
Natural infection may lead to long-lasting immunity to the infecting virus, as demonstrated by the reappearance of the influenza A H1N1 subtype in 1977, when only subjects under the age of 20 years became infected [24].
Whether you get your immunity from the flu shot or naturally, there will still be lots of flu strains you're not immune to, so you're by no means safe from the flu no matter what you do. However, there is >some< chance of you being immune or resistant to it if you have natural antibodies from another strain of flu, and near enough to no chance from any shot you had longer than some number of months ago.
So, it is a perfectly reasonable conclusion that the average person is better off not getting a flu shot. Note the precise wording: that doesn't mean the flu shot is bad for everyone - there are lots of "at risk" people who should get them. It also doesn't mean people are generally better off without any immunizations. | |
|
Moanie
|
Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 73 | |
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:31:52 PM | You both sound perfectly reasonable to me...
I like both of your points EdBear and Traveller, just want to reiterate the importance of the immune system in this debate, and judging who the average person is….
{quotes}
Diagnosis is vital as impaired immune response can pose serious threats to health. With the increasing resistance of pathogens to current antibiotics and anti-fungal medications, the impact of a weak immune system has taken on added significance.
In the early 1980s, psychologist Janice Kiecolt-Glaser, PhD, and immunologist Ronald Glaser, PhD, of the Ohio State University College of Medicine, were intrigued by animal studies that linked stress and infection. (APA)
For STRESS of any significant duration – from a few days to a few months or years, as happens in Real Life – all aspects of immunity went downhill. Thus long-term or chronic stress, through too much wear and tear, can ravage the immune system. (APA)
** What I, Moanie, see here is a double-edged sword. You are dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. You must determine, because you know your own health issues and stress levels, whether you are the average person with no potential immune system depression. You have no diseases that could compromise your immune response, you are not easily susceptible to infections, and you maintain a positive stress-free lifestyle. Not always possible, and is that the average person?
At any rate, those who are advised to inoculate against seasonal viruses are asked to do so, often because of the potential risk of secondary infections that could cause considerable distress, loss of work, damage to organs or lungs, or….. Secondary Infections, often bacterial that would need to be treated with antibiotics…
It would seem that you need to balance all these factors when making your decision, and realize that the greatest risk for catching seasonal viruses is during flu season. You may still catch these contagions at other times of the year, but there is just less risk due to exposure in the off season.
So what to do? Take the chance of getting a severe virus that may need to be treated with antibiotics? Take your chances and contact a virus that may help to build your immune system? Take a seasonal flu shot, that in the long term may have other, un-accounted for effects? Whatever you do, consider your own unique circumstances…. | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 9/30/2009 3:36:44 PM | I find this whole vaccine debate quite facinating. I'm old achool. I grew up getting the Mumps, Measles, German Measles, Scarlet Fever, Chicken Pox..you name it!! I've suffered with the flu maybe 5 times in my lifetime.
Out of all the contageous "germs" I've ever caught...the common cold is the worst. Why can't science make a vaccine for that? | |
|
| Flu shots...
Posted: 10/10/2009 9:04:30 PM | Not much to disagree with there...but I reiterate, immunity is NOT antibiotic action. Antigens provoke STRONGER response with more exposure, whereas organisms develop RESISTANCE to antibiotics (and antivirals, we presume, though there's as yet limited research on this).
BTW, while COLD-FX is just about the only patent remedy to ever present a study passing the standard statistical tests, it has only ever been subject to that single study; they never did any others, nor has any other been published as of my last note. Its contents are, of course, largely secret; most of the names used for ingredients are their own names that others can't replicate. Remember that, at the 95% level, one such study in 20 will yield a false positive. It's still possible that COLD-FX just got lucky and, like Oat Bran, is cashing in until more results are in. It's also possible that the stuff works, of course.
ED BEAR | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 5
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
|
Home
login 
