| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 11:38:33 AM | You dont think any of us have been burned? I think its natural to be hurt, but, the important thing is to learn and heal. It does no good to place blame and dwell on it. You learn and move on. It takes a while, but no need to carry dead weight. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 4:37:19 PM | I do not understand your stance on not paying child support. I would assume this is a way to weasle out of it?
It's a concept to see if mothers are actually fighting for custody because they want their children, or if it's because they want the Child Support. It's not unlike how a father's request for more time is believed to be an attempt to get out of paying Child Support. It's acceptable to say fathers have ulterior motives in that regard, but it's almost blasphemy to say a mother might be the one guilty of such conduct.
IF you are willing to support a child, and awarded 50% custody, some states dont require child support to be administered because both parents have the child equal amounts of time. Diff laws vary from state to state and country.
In Canada, there are tables and guidelines which automatically set rates of child support based on your annual income, when you are the payor. There are no concessions given for your own expenses, nor for the income of the recipient (including income of others in their household, unless one claims for Undue Hardship). The only way to get it lowered is to have custody between 40 - 50%, but to the best of my knowledge you are still expected to pay something if you are not the "primary care giver". You can also apply for Undue Harship, but it is all but impossible to achieve. Again... asking for it gets the courts looking down on you, like you're trying to "weasel" your way out of paying.
On top of that, there are the Section 7 Expenses whereby you are expected to pay a "proportionate" amount of your income for medical, dental, extra-cirricular activities etc, above and beyond child support. So as an example, if I make $30,000/yr and my ex makes $20,000/yr; if we put our daughter in dance lessons and they cost $50/month... aside from the $260/month I would already give her for Child Support, I would be expected to pay $30 for those lessons where she would have to pay $20. There are at least limitations on that, however. Both parties have to agree that it's an acceptable expense... it's not just automatic. The area of concern with Section 7 is that with there being no accountability by a recipient for where support payments are spent, a payor (in theory) could end up paying the whole works.
Granted, this is all just money. The idea behind the concern is not the money itself, but more-so the principle. Where one parent is expected to be fiscally responsible, the other can do whatever they so choose with no accountability. This is not saying that irresponsibility is the norm, just that it happens... on both sides. Unfortunately, it's the kids who pay the biggest price, not either parent. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:25:51 PM | All I can say, for the kids sake, stay in their lives, bite your lip at times if you have to. Put the kids needs first, you'll win in the end. You may experience alot of grief, frustration, anger and bitterness. I'm speaking from pure experience here now. The road ahead is not an easy one. What your kids will see though is someone who, no matter what, went to their activities, stayed in their lives & loved them. Regardless of the circumstances. No easy, I had it ROUGH!! Still do at times. The payoff is looking back as what you've endured & then looking at the expression on your childs face when the tell you how much you mean to them. I've been on both sides & neither side is easy. Face it,,, this is going to be tough to hear, but you can either like it, or lump it. But you have to stay in their lives. All that you'll do by bottling it all up is hurt yourself or your kids. Let it go. Not easy to do,,,, I struggled with that one for years. Your kids see the anger & then guess what, they learn how to bottle it up just like you. Hang in there!  | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:37:05 PM | I would have to agree with twindaddy on most of what he said.
Men have the same rights as woman many men are getting the kids
I have sole custody of mine as well.
But the main thing is to be in your childs life on either side be there for them
it takes money either way but most important is spending time with them.
Good luck | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 6:40:49 PM |
But the main thing is to be in your childs life on either side be there for them
This is what kids really need. Everything else is just a distraction.
Men have the same rights as woman many men are getting the kids
I have sole custody of mine as well.
Sorry... not trying to discredit anything you've accomplished, but this is where the problems with animosity arise. People view the custodial parent as somehow being better. This is where the "father's rights" issue gets skewed. Too many people who have not obtained the primary status feel as though they've lost... like their abilities as a parent are somehow diminished. This is where the arguement about women having more rights comes from... because fathers have to spend tons of money to get something most mothers are just handed. Right... wrong... really doesn't matter. The only time it really matters is if the courts are keeping you from your child for unfounded reasons (false allegations of abuse, etc). That's really the only thing one has to fight for.
That was the only fight my ex had with me was that she barely allowed me any access to our daughter in the beginning. I gave up on everything else... never fought for the house, my pension, child support... nothing. All I wanted was decent access to my daughter, and eventually I got something reasonable (though it is tainted because my lawyer didn't tell me how many loopholes she left in it). My ex can take all the money in the world... I can tell you the time I get to spend with my daughter makes me far happier than the money ever could. The best I can hope for is that she feels the same way. The way she runs to the door when I come to pick her up indicates to me that, so far, she does. | |
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tlc31
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Joined: 6/19/2006
Msg: 31 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 8:32:27 PM | Firstly I think singledaddy has every right to feel the way he feels.
We have to remember he is here to ask advice, he's not personally Attacking any of you. He's not personally attacking anyone for that matter. He is unsatisfied with the system.
I would be here all day if I tried to explain my story to you. So I won't, but I know what he is saying. If a father is actually taking any part whatsoever in his child's life that is a good thing.
Of course there are some expectations as well. And if he has a job he can afford something. But same goes for if the father is the sole parent, the mother should pay.
I think all of our situations are very different, and no one is right or wrong, due to the fact that no ones situation is the same.
I don't think everyone should be harping on poor singledaddy for expressing himself.
Good Luck All with whatever ails you | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/4/2006 8:53:41 PM | Singledaddy... you are entitled to your feelings on this... they are, after all, yours. Just want to point out that not all women are like this. I have full custody, for several reasons, mainly 'cause their daddy goes out of town a lot on business. We do not currently have a visitation schedule set up for the sheer fact that he lives in Edmonton, and we don't. Not even close. He pays support, but I guaran-damn-tee ya it's not spent on wild parties and the like. I can't remember the last time I went out.. oh wait.. I can... Nov 4... for my birthday.. my GF paid for dinner. I am sure he's bitter about the arrangement we have too.. in fact I know he is. There is no money for either one of us.
Anyway... I could b*tch and complain about it as much as you.. for different reasons tho obviously... doesn't change the fact I am raising them on my own. We just suck it up and carry on with life the best way we can.
Please just remember this.. not all women are like that. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/5/2006 6:28:25 AM |
The best I can hope for is that she feels the same way. The way she runs to the door when I come to pick her up indicates to me that, so far, she does.
Keep up the good work thatguy!! | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/5/2006 8:37:05 AM | Without getting into your personal feelings about your situation I would have to say I agree in general that justice for good fathers is not what it should be.
Joint Custody is what is knows as a "legal fiction". It has no meaning. It's come to be that way because courts don't want to look as biased to the mothers as they are so now it's SOP to just say joint custody then nobody can take it to the state supreme court using parental rights laws (if you live in a state that HAS parental rights laws). What matters is who the “primary residential parent” is.
I fought for 8 years to get my daughters out of a terrible situation that they were in with their mother who is a big time alcoholic. To highlight some of what we went through; my oldest daughter when she was 8 was removed forcibly from her classroom by a CPS worker after by daughter refused to go back to her mom’s house because she was so scared. Her mother was sitting right there and the CPS worker kept asking her why she was afraid to go back and my daughter who was terrified didn't want to say while her mother was sitting there. This same worker tossed out my complaint of drunk driving with my kids a year earlier. He pried her off a book case and started to drag her out to her mother’s car. A cop took my daughter away from the CPS worker because he was afraid the CPS worker was going to hurt my daughter, which he did leaving bruises on her arm. I was threatened by a prosecuting attorney for making reports to CPS saying I was mentally abusing my daughter’s right after that. More CPS reports and a year later a guardian ad litem was charged to look after my daughters. She found no problems in their home despite to domestic violence arrests that took place in their home and said it was a fine place for kids to be. 6 months later my girl’s mom was arrested for DUI and negligent endangerment with a BAL of .388. Nobody reported this to CPS including the GAL or even bothered to tell me about it until my daughters told me 2 weeks after the fact. When I called CPS to report this I got yelled at for making too many calls to CPS. I filed a complaint against the GAL for not reporting to CPS as she is legally bound to do so, it died in the County Attorneys office where she also happened to work.
I now have 100% custody of my daughters.
The important thing for you to do OP is to take a breath and think long term about this stuff. Stewing in your crap isn't going to work nor is being bitter. The "professionals" who are going to be making decisions in this will all go with whatever label any one of them put on you so if you come across bitter and angry you will FOREVER be labeled bitter and angry by everyone dealing with your case and this will not serve your children. You have to be the one who is labeled gracious and caring. Miss no time with your children, pay the support. I paid 360 a month for 8 years. I now get 120 a month for the same children with the exact same economic situation for both of us, they changed the rules. DO NOT let this eat you alive. You will lose all the best parts of yourself and perhaps screw up the next relationship you might have because of your inability to deal with the pain.
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goldn
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Joined: 10/5/2006
Msg: 36 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/5/2006 11:00:27 AM | | so let me get this straight? just need to see if i understand.....because i cannot believe what i am reading.......you think that if you dont get custody you should not have to be financially responsible for children that YOU brought into this world? SO its not your way so the heck with your kids support? and you in the same breath are talking about it being "about the kids"? on what planet is that 'about the kids"? trust me buddy.....there are a lot of single moms out there pretty much doin it on their own who would LOVE for a daddy to be engaged in their childrens lives.....IN EVERYWAY.....men get the luxury of choosing to walk away.....in 99% of the cases....MOMS DONT! | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/5/2006 8:20:53 PM | Like it or not, the man is entitled to express himself & from the sounds of it,,, he's pretty ticked off at the system. I can truley empathize with the man. I've been on both sides & neither one is easy. If 99% of the cases, the man doesn't walk away,,, he is driven away by the mother. That sounds absolutey assinine doesn't it? Just as your comment of
"IN EVERYWAY.....men get the luxury of choosing to walk away.....in 99% of the cases....MOMS DONT!" does. C'mon now. The guy is just venting some steam. Better here in this forum, where he can get some input from some unbiased people, than to the mother of his children. Give him a break. You don't know all of his circumstances.
I'm one of the fortunate ones, I have custody of my oldest & am getting custody of my youngest in a couple of months. I have had to bite my lip, and swallow my pride for a number of years, pay child support (never missed a payment by the way, not did I have any say so on how it was squandered). When kids are involved in a divorce or seperation or custody battle, nobody wins.. The biggest loser is the kids.
I've said this earlier & I'll say it again. Stay in their lives for them. You'll be a better man and father for doing so. Even if you have to suck it up, bite your lip and take a few obscenites. Tax time sucks as does seeing your hard earned money get squandered away with no say so.
Put your Faith in the Lord, say a Prayer (daily) and be there for them.  | |
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goldn
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Joined: 10/5/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/6/2006 2:40:25 PM | | yes he has a right to vent.....a right to his opinion....i didnt say he didnt......but how does that translate into me NOT having the right to mine? i didnt put all my personal stuff out there.....but i see the other side....the side where id WANT the father more involved.....would welcome it.....and get very little from him....financially or otherwise.....and have 2 children....one with a disibility.....and im doing it 99% alone.....there were generalities made in his comments.....so i made a few of my own....he has a right to say......and so do i | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/6/2006 3:58:21 PM | | The short version of the story is that the system doesn't care about kids... it cares about ripping off parents who cannot find a common ground. They profit off of other people's misery. Until someone in a place of power steps up to the plate and starts coming up with solutions that benefit children instead of just trying to bankrupt their parents, children will continue to suffer. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:07:35 PM | ok this is my point on your post OP:
First off:
because I am a man, I get no rights
That is not true at all, I am not sure where you are from but here in canada both parents have the same amount of rights to the child. So if you are from canada you better talk to another lawter and if they tell you that you have no right's because you were not togther or what ever then I would be telling them they need to read up on their laws again.
I truly believe (men will agree, and Im sure women should too) that if a man is ready, willing and capable of caring for his child he should not be forced to pay child support
I dont agree with this, because you cant raise a child on looks now can you, both parents need to pay for taking care of a child that they both made, in all ways that is including spending money.
Now a man sees his kids on the weekends or when he is not working, if he dares to do something for himself one weekend, he is labelled a bad father for not spending time with his kids
When only seeing your children on the weekends (most time it is every second weekend) you should spend time with them on the weekend that you have them, on the weekend that you dont that is your own time but when you have your child/children that is their time not yours. So remember that, you plan your time on the weekends that you dont have your children just like a mother should plan her time on the weekends that she doesnt have the children.
The dad may want joint custody.......why wont he get it? Because he has not created the bond with the child like the mother has, therefore he is being punished for doing something he was made to do in the first place. Judges will award custody to the mom. Moms will have custody unless they do something to endanger the childs life, thats it.
Your wrong about the joit cusotdy thing hun sorry to tell you. Most judges now a days grant join custody, the only time they dont is if the parents have no way of getting a hold of the other parent at all, for ex: kinda droped off the face of the earth and there is no one that can find them.
Now, you wonder why so many men run away from their responsibilties of being a father, it is way to hard on them. Many take off loving their children to death, but leaving is better and easier then leading a life of misery and not being able to be a large part in their childrens lives. Women need to take responsibility for fatherless children just as much as father themselves.
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! first off there is so much wrong with this statment! first off men run cause they dont want the child, there is leaving and still being part of your child's life (if you really want to then you will do what ever you have to, to be part of your child's life) Then there is leaving and not having anything to do with your child which is not right at all. Second of all. Women do take responsibility for the fatherless children as you call them because they are the ones that stay to look after the child in all ways when the father is to much of a candy ass to do anything with them I am sorry. My feeling on that statment is that you really need to think things again because you must realize that there are many motherless children out there as well and the father's take all the responsibility of the children. The parent that stays and does everything has taken the responsibility the one that has left has no responsibility what so ever other then for themself so remember that.
Again when it comes to the law I am talking about the law in canada so it all depends on where you are at. | |
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goldn
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Joined: 10/5/2006
Msg: 41 | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/6/2006 6:22:04 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wow....
Talk about a misimformed post......again....wow................
....................................FOR CANADIANS...........................................
Joint Custody means nothing...yes you heard me right, if Mom decides to ignore
the "rights" set out within the general guidelines set forth by "Joint Custody"..
Guess what?....yup....she can get away with it.....
Men have the same rights?...hahahahahaha....too funny......like um....what?
The right to accept seeing your children couple times a month, sounds so
reasonable, should be happy to just be seeing them right?....
I will tell everyone here there is nothing worse than the quite sound of empty
halls.....And knowing within you that from two weeks from now you will be
"Permited" to see them again......so sad........
You want to know the REAL REASON so many men leave???????????
It's because their hearts are broken into pieces....trust me on this.....It has taken
everything I have to remain while THOUSANDS of dollars leave my wallet....
all in the name of "being there"......
Many "men" walk, I have no sympathy for them, but, I understand "some" of them...
I will never condone the um..."deadbeat", but remember, there is nothing in
This world harder than being without your children........knowing deep inside you
are a "partime Dad".......believe it next time Dad calls wanting to see the kids when it's not schelduled that perhaps he just needs the same thing you do...........
....................................................LOVE................................................................ | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/6/2006 8:53:09 PM | Joint Custody means nothing...yes you heard me right, if Mom decides to ignore
the "rights" set out within the general guidelines set forth by "Joint Custody"..
Guess what?....yup....she can get away with it.....
This is true. Joint custody comes with the pretence that both parents have equal say in the child's life. I do make my own decisions in child rearing when my daughter is here, but my ex makes decisions on issues affecting our daughter outside of just child rearing without consulting me... and when she does consult me, she never listens anyway. What am I going to do... go to court every 3 months because she won't cooperate? They'll tell me the exact same thing they told me before... "We can't make her cooperate." So that's a fine how-do-ya-do for all the children out there. "We recognize that your mom is a control freak, but we're not going to do anything to stop her." Yeah judges! | |
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goldn
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Joined: 10/5/2006
Msg: 44 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 5:16:36 AM | | yes, but heres the thing guys....bottom line.....there is no amount of inconvenience, injustice, money, time, aggravation, or anything else in this world that could EVER EVER EVER make me walk away from my children...being a parent means NEVER giving up.....forever....no matter how much pain, financial stress, or whatever i had to go through to see them.....no matter how little time....there is NO valid excuse to ever ever give up your children....period....end of story....its not about either parent....its about the kids.....and do you think any of these "difficulties" would make a difference to them? they want to and should feel that BOTH their parents would NEVER give up on them for ANY reason | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 10:04:37 AM | | Let me just say this.. im a woman and i agree. I have 2 kids and do not get child support nor have i ever filed for it. To me if a man wants to not pay and help out his child, who am i to make him? My sons dad, he is great. always here for xmas, best man ive ever known as far as taking care of his child. Now.. my daughters father.. shes 3 weeks old and he hasnt even called to see if she was born or what and i could care lesss.. i dont want a dime from him, insurance, nothing. I can say this and I will.. her dad IS a deadbeat dad but i accept that. Im not going to force him to do anything. Plus if i file for child support he will be found and then have rights to see her and stuff.. NO THANKS! lol.. hes a drug addict and uses women for whatever he wants to get through life, doesnt believe in working much and so on.. so no.. i dont want anything from him. he can stay away as far as im concerned. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 3:03:30 PM |
there is no amount of inconvenience, injustice, money, time, aggravation, or anything else in this world that could EVER EVER EVER make me walk away from my children
And I never would neither. I think the courts, for once, need to beat it into their heads:
its about the kids
The courts don't drive responsible parents away... irresponsible parents will show their true colours every time. If there's nothing to gain by having more or less access, you will find those who are responsible in a more timely manner. So long as there is a reward for having more time with your children (be-it receiving more child support or paying less), people's motivations will always be questioned. It just so happens that fathers are questioned more frequently and are made to feel like shit for perhaps wanting to keep a little of the money they work their asses off for in their own pockets. If you don't give your ex every last penny the federal government has determined they should get, then you don't care about your child. Stupidest thing I've ever seen. | |
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mrbk
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Joined: 11/29/2006
Msg: 48 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 3:59:46 PM | What about the kid?..it seems to me everything is about you and your ex...you are missing the point...it goes both ways...alot of man are not saints...so...think about your kid and what you are giving him..thats all that matters...take a deep breath and think again...takes more than just money to raise a kid | |
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mrbk
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Joined: 11/29/2006
Msg: 49 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 4:25:33 PM | | What about the kid?..it seems to me everything is about you and your ex...you are missing the point...it goes both ways...alot of man are not saints...so...think about your kid and what you are giving him..thats all that matters...take a deep breath and think again...takes more than just money to raise a kid | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 4:47:28 PM | Ok, not sure where you live or where all your info is coming from. If it is coming from the locker room lawyers then get a grip. Contact a lawyer in your area specializing in family law and see what your rights really are.
Yes, you will have to pay child support but that is only right since it takes two to tango and you had a hand in bringing the child into this world. That is unless it was immaculate conception then I think you're off the hook.
If she is doing the drugs and whatnot then you can get custody of the child in most places since it is a form of child endangerment. As I said, contact a lawyer in your area and ask them.
Kevin
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