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goldn
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Joined: 10/5/2006
Msg: 51 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 6:17:36 PM | If you don't give your ex every last penny the federal government has determined they should get, then you don't care about your child.
lets face it....most amounts determined by the courts dont even come CLOSE to half of what it costs to raise a child properly.....if i spent per month what my ex does....id be laughing.....i spend a hell of a lot more....his amount barely covers what i i give for school per month | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/7/2006 9:16:10 PM |
lets face it....most amounts determined by the courts dont even come CLOSE to half of what it costs to raise a child properly.....if i spent per month what my ex does....id be laughing.....i spend a hell of a lot more....his amount barely covers what i i give for school per month
The ironic thing is... anytime a support recipient is asked to prove this, all one hears is excuses. Therein lies the problem with the Child Support system. One side thinks they pay too much... the other thinks they receive too little. Make it fair? Both sides take the receipts of what they have spent on their children at the end of each month, and square up the difference. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 3:39:29 AM | You want some proof that I'm spending far more than my ex's "half"? This month alone I've paid/will pay $7 for a field trip, $14 for a movie the whole school is going to, $10 for special christmas craft supplies for the school, abt. $10 on food for a school donation (required by class) to local food banks, $35 for a choir concert on Wednesday night, between 15-30 on my daughters 3 teachers for Christmas gifts, about 10 on christmas cards for their classmates. Add to that the red t-shirts ($10) I had to buy and the reindeer antlers for a next week on "Christmas dressup day". Add in the abt. $75 I spend on recess food and juice boxes (would be more usually but this is a shorter month.
BTW, my daughters just had school pictures taken, had a sweat-a-thon two weeks ago, and a book fair last week. Optional, but paid for nonetheless.
Then there's the between 300-350 I pay for groceries and cleaning supplies a month.And yeah, it should be split up 3 ways because my daughters eat just as much as I do. Add up half the difference in rent because I have a 3 bedroom instead of the one bedroom I would have had if I had no children. My electricity is higher because I have a bigger house, more baths/showers, etc.
Then you're looking at clothing. My oldest daughter went up a size last month, I just bought my daughter 3 pairs of jogging pants and a sweatsuit a few days ago. They both need new snowsuits, winter boots, gloves/mittens, hats and scarves.
Wait until the weather kicks in hard and I have to pay for bus passes (just under $200 dollars) to get them to school....and on really cold days a taxi (because I don't have enough left over for payments and car upkeep.)
My daughters are also taking antibiotics for strep throat, my oldest needs Benedryl in the house at all times, there are special items she needs for her allergies. She also has two puffers that she takes on a consistant basis.
Then you have to add in a movie night at home a couple times a month, birthday parties, treats at the mall every once in a while, etc.
Then you tell me how far his $250 would go.
My ex has never paid it, but if he were to take half the responsibility he'd end up paying much more than the order.
It's a terrible idea for people to go over the support monthly and let it fluctuate based on amount spent. What's to stop the NCP from claiming that any expense was not necessary and to refuse to pay.There's also nothing to stop a golddigging CP from using receipts from other people in order to get more money out of their ex. And who would enforce it? Courts will not micromanage. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 3:40:07 AM | | The problem with the receipt idea is that it doesn't take into account the opportunity costs. CP's often have to pass on higher paying jobs because of child related responsibilities. I know that I've had to. | |
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vick99
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Joined: 11/30/2006
Msg: 55 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 4:15:37 AM | Wow, I'm disgusted at some of the things I'm reading here. Like this :
-If you don't give your ex every last penny the federal government has determined they should get, then you don't care about your child-
So the amount of money the goverment says we have to pay, which is just a graph/chart, is what determines how much we care about our kids? What a joke!
I've got 2 kids and my ex and I worked it out between us. We just simply sat down and figure out realistically what she would need and what was good for the kids. Taking everybody involved interests into account financially and it was easy.
Why is everything about money?
Any conflict is caused by the parents not the kids, just about everything I read in your thread was all anger. If you channel that anger and use that energy to be with your kids, you can, it's that simple. Only we can determine how big a role we will play in our childrens lives.
You may find that the anger you have may be fear. Of what? Being alone? Deal with the situation man, in a positive way before it leaves a scar.
take care.......... | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 4:51:25 AM |
You want some proof that I'm spending far more than my ex's "half"?
I'm saying that in most cases, recipients are unwilling to prove it... because they can't. If you're not one of those people, then you don't have to worry. However, I think recipients forget this:
Then there's the between 300-350 I pay for groceries and cleaning supplies a month.And yeah, it should be split up 3 ways because my daughters eat just as much as I do. Add up half the difference in rent because I have a 3 bedroom instead of the one bedroom I would have had if I had no children. My electricity is higher because I have a bigger house, more baths/showers, etc.
Then you're looking at clothing. My oldest daughter went up a size last month, I just bought my daughter 3 pairs of jogging pants and a sweatsuit a few days ago. They both need new snowsuits, winter boots, gloves/mittens, hats and scarves.
These are expenses that a support paying parent has as well. Where's their compensation? Where's their Child Tax Benefit? Where's their Child Care Subsidy? Who's helping them out? We can do it without receiving money from the government and the other parent. And if we can't... what are we told? Get a better job... get another job. If we were to turn around and say that... look at the backlash!
Part of the problem here with people showing all this anger is that not every situation is equal. I'm not angry or upset, I'm playing Devil's Advocate. I'm pointing out problems with the system. If you happened to get screwed the other way around, then surely you can appreciate that it doesn't feel good to get hooped regardless of which side you happen to be on.
So the amount of money the goverment says we have to pay, which is just a graph/chart, is what determines how much we care about our kids? What a joke!
Yeah... it is a joke, which was my point. Caring about your children shouldn't be based on your ability to support them financially, but it does... if you don't have primary custody of them. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 5:05:25 AM |
These are expenses that a support paying parent has as well. Where's their compensation? Where's their Child Tax Benefit? Where's their Child Care Subsidy? Who's helping them out? We can do it without receiving money from the government and the other parent. And if we can't... what are we told? Get a better job... get another job. If we were to turn around and say that... look at the backlash!
Part of the problem here with people showing all this anger is that not every situation is equal. I'm not angry or upset, I'm playing Devil's Advocate. I'm pointing out problems with the system. If you happened to get screwed the other way around, then surely you can appreciate that it doesn't feel good to get hooped regardless of which side you happen to be on.
My ex has a three bedroom house that he's sharing with his wife and father. He's never been held back from a job because of lack of childcare, never had to take time off work because his children are sick or have doctor's appointments. He lived with his mom for 2 years to "save money", he's quit work to avoid paying after CS was ordered (at a reduced rate because he attended a school that cost him 40 dollars a day instead of doing the same thing for 10 dollars a course....and he quit that too). He also has a cabin, a Harley, a car, etc. Just because he lives outside his means doesn't mean I have to take pity on him. He can afford it, just doesn't want to pay it.
Why would he be compensated for having the kids every second week when I have them most of the time? I guess the problem that I have for NCP's complaining about child support is that it's 25% of their income (give or take). The remainder is more than enough to live on. The CP is making sacrifices, so can the NCP.
Look at it this way. My ex is paying more for CAR INSURANCE than he'd have to pay for two children. And he doesn't think that's fair...... | |
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vick99
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Joined: 11/30/2006
Msg: 58 | |
| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 5:44:13 AM | Wow Brandi, your ex must be a terrible driver, lol.
If 25% of his income is less than his insurance payment, he should look into a bus pass. That's insane. What exactly is the moral of this story?
Money? Kids? Betrayal? Revenge?
I believe the system is flawed as well, it makes you pay to pay, if you're male anyway.
Sad but true.. All I'm saying is that it's easy to get caught up in all the negative things. Most of which are unavoidable, right? It's just how it is. It sucks for everyone involved. We can't let ourselves lose focus of the important things that have nothing to do with money or possessions.
I'm not in anyway saying we shouldn't get upset with these kind of things and they are not issues but our actions during these times go further than dollars when it comes to our kids.
I really do hope things get better for everyone, including myself. I wonder what it would be like to be with my family over Christmas again. I believe things like this make some people better people, stronger people.
Best of luck...... | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 6:45:54 AM | | I've been following this post to my amusement for the past couple days. As always, when a man has a gripe or complaint about this issue, it doesn't take long for the estrogen-fest to kick in. They all seem to be complaining about how their ex's have somehow gotten off the hook from their responsibilities. The title of the thread is "Justice for the good Fathers." Not, look what my ex did to me. This guy is looking for answers for a subject that is tearing at his soul. Don't you think he deserves some sage advice? My hat is off to all you single mothers who have stepped up to the plate and have raised your children with little or no help. That is awesome! I know how you feel. I've been the one to step to the plate for my children for the past dozen years. I recieved no child support during this period, but I hold no malice towards their mother for that fact. Because the real justice for a good father is when your child grows up and says thank you for what you've done. My advice to Singledaddy is this, be the example that your child will look up to, because in the end it's all you can really give a child that they take with them through their adult life. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 11:57:27 AM | That Guy
With regards to father’s right I think the entrenchment in law of Senator Anne Cooles recommendations regarding shared parenting for custody and access would have done allot to help. Unfortunately, the Minister of Justice backed down due to the backlash from women’s groups. If implemented the recommendations would have made joint custody / shared parenting the presumption in court. I am not sure but I think joint guardianship was one of the recommendations because joint custody without joint guardianship is useless. Joint guardianship allows both parents to make decisions for the child.
The pieces though that I thought were missing that need be addressed were;
· There are mechanisms in place to enforce the payment of child support but none to ensure access is not denied. This has to be addressed.
· There is no mechanism within the tax act for the sharing of tax deductions for items such as child care. For example, in my case I paid for 50% of the child care in addition to my ex. She got the deduction although she was generous enough to let me share in the portion of the refund attributable to my 50%. The weird thing in the tax act is that even if I paid the child care expenses directly they can only be claimed by the lower income earner even if your divorced. That has to be changed and a method of sharing the deduction for those that pay a portion each instead of one parent receiving the write off.
· Other tax / government benefits – if the 40% rule is applied then the other parent should be able to share in the other tax and government benefits such as the child tax credit, not just one parent. This would provide equity between the parties.
· The final item is with regards to the receipt of child support. I feel that there needs to be mechanism or process for accountability of the funds received but only in situations where the NCP feels that the funds are not being used properly. Like with child support the NCP would have to apply to have a review done, it would not be automatic. This could be handled through the present FMEP offices in the provinces.
The final accountability above would go along way to alleviate the differences in opinion since it would clearly show if someone was paying too much or whether they were paying too little. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 6:27:27 PM | From: The saddest man in the world...
To:Anyone who'll listen...
I met my dream girl a few years ago, and we had an awesome first year. We had a honeymoon baby which was a difficult pregnancy. Shortly after our beautiful daughter was born, my 11 year old step daughter was hit by a golf cart on her fathers property at a party. We ended up spending 5 weeks in Scottish Rite Childrens Hospital watching her fight for her life. She had multiple seizure disorder as a result of the accident an also the most severe knee injury anybody could have. Durin' our stay in Atlanta I had to go accross the street to Northside Hospital because of Celluitus; staph and strepp infection of the lymphnodes from a cat bite that almost killed me. We celebrated our first anniversary with my wife walkin' back and forth accross the street to see the both of us; all the while our newborn baby was watched by family and friends all over the state. When you are a great mother and wife, you can imagine how terrible this had to be on her...
The day that we finally left Atlanta, our second car was totaled by some boys that tried to steal it. We bagan to have money problems also. We began to fight often and all the time; it became the only way we ever communicated. For some reason she started to accuse me of adultery, insanity, cultism and drug abuse; none of which are true. Ultimately, we found out that my wife had eveloped fluid on her brain called a pseudo tumor. We started marriage counciling where I let her have all the say thinking that she was getting the weight off her chest, and I also reckond that the councilor ought to obviously realize that what she was sayin' about me wasn't the truth. In our last session, I went by myself and told him that I could not get her to look at herself as the cause of our problems, due not only to her fluid on the brain; not only to the year of hell described above, which is just the tip of the iceberg; but because she was also diagnosed with fibromyalgia. My research on fibromyalgia resulted in finding out that that can also cause you to not think right...
All of this has culmulated in the fact that she has kicked me out, filed a restraining order on me to keep me away from her and the children, and her filing for divorce. Shortly after I was kicked out my father died. I was in a little shock I think. The judge decided in the restraining order hearing that I get 2 hours every other saturday supervised visitation with my baby at the local library. And it's been over a month since I've seen my baby...
I feel as though I've been abused. Sometimes I don't know how to feel. I'm a sworn officer of the law, and now , basically, she has criminalized me by lying about me when she filled out for the restraining order. I take pride in the fact that I am a good man...
Where is the justice for this good father? | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/8/2006 7:47:57 PM | singledaddy demands:
I would like to here a story where a women fought to have sole custody and did not get it and why?
I'm your huckleberry.
It all boils down to one sentence: The one with the most documentation wins.
Simple, huh? | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 5:39:41 AM |
Look at it this way. My ex is paying more for CAR INSURANCE than he'd have to pay for two children. And he doesn't think that's fair......
Ok... but don't you understand? You're proving everything I'm saying:
We can do it without receiving money from the government and the other parent. And if we can't... what are we told? Get a better job... get another job. If we were to turn around and say that... look at the backlash!
I'm pointing out problems with the system.
If you happened to get screwed the other way around, then surely you can appreciate that it doesn't feel good to get hooped regardless of which side you happen to be on.
The system should not be designed for either parent to come out ahead or behind... it should be designed to benefit children. The problem with the system is that it's designed to keep people in court. They specifically target whoever they think is going to fight the most and give them the least. This is how they keep them in court. If I would have been given the time in our first hearing that I was given at our pre-trial conference, I would have ended it there. But they give you little tidbits... a trail of breadcrumbs if you will. And as you can see... the result is parents blaming parents, when we should be angry with the system. They're the ones who are implementing these bullshit rules. They're the ones handing down the bullshit judgments. People who ended up with poor excuses for a parent mothering/fathering their children cannot have that fixed by the courts, and no amount of child support is going to make them a better parent. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 10:15:20 AM |
Wow Brandi, your ex must be a terrible driver, lol.
Nope, just stupid enough to drive without insurance and have an accident while we were together. :)
If 25% of his income is less than his insurance payment, he should look into a bus pass. That's insane. What exactly is the moral of this story?
Money? Kids? Betrayal? Revenge?
He was supposed to be paying 486 according to the tables. He got it reduced to 250 by signing up for school for high school upgrading so that he could attend postsecondary. He had a choice between paying $40 dollars a day at one school, or $10 a course at another school. He decided he'd rather pay the $40 than let "me" have any of his money and claimed hardship because of it. They reduced it by half, had to garnish his wages and then he quit both work and school because there was no way he was going to keep working if "I" was going to get anything.
His attitude has always been, "why should I have to give her money? All she has to do is go to welfare and she'll have enough to live off of. Why don't you go do that instead " That's right, he'd rather his children be raised in poverty than to have to sign a check.
They all seem to be complaining about how their ex's have somehow gotten off the hook from their responsibilities
Right. Because being a "good father" is subjective. There's more to doing it than claiming "I'm a great dad". There are actually people out there who only see their child a couple of times a year, run in and out of their lives and claim to be the EXACT same person that the OP is. I keep using my ex as an example, but that's because he's the worst I've ever heard of. He seems to believe that he has no responsibilities to the children at all and is not responsible for them at all outside of "his time". I suggested a stay of visitation until he finishes...well, it's been 5 weeks and he hasn't even CALLED them...after a year of being forced by court order to take them every two weeks for a few days? Why should he automatically get half-half custody when he's never shown himself to be responsible, never provided for his children, etc. That's what people here are suggesting.
Why should you base court law on the good dads....when most cases the good dads have already set up visitation and provide for their children before it gets to that point? The courts are there to try and force the deadbeats, the vindictive CP's, and the rest of them to come to a consensus or have the courts settle it.
It works both ways you know. It would not be fair to assume that all dads are good fathers and as such, deserve exactly 50-50 joint whether or not they can follow through, nor that being a "good dad" is enough to absolve them of being financially responsible for children that have needs whether they see him or not.
These fathers' rights groups are working from the perspective that ALL fathers are these poor put upon men who are being discriminated against because they have a penis. Look at their forums on their websites. Wishing death to their exes, thinking that anyone with a vagina is automatically a liar and a golddigger, suggesting that men not take their kids at all unless they get half physical custody and suggesting that they not pay child support if she can do it alone. WHAT? Where is their pride in knowing that they give their children what they need, and that they never walked away from seeing their child out of spite against their mother?
I guess it's just so maddening for me to hear people **** about paying child support. You have a bunch (not all) of NCP's who have no true idea what it's like to do it on your own, and they don't know exactly what goes into raising a child. And they flip out because it's not FAIR...waahhhh.
Well you know what? It's not fair to expect one person to not only put their lives into raising a child by themselves....AND have the sole financial responsibility. Who cares if they get some sort of government subsidy.....it still doesn't absolve YOU of YOUR responsibility to that child. Don't they WANT their child to have as much as they can possibly give them? Or is it all about being pissed off because it's not going their way?
What kind of message are you sending to your kids? That they can walk away from their responsibilities because being able to buy what you want is more important? That it's good enough to say "I'm a good dad/mom" but I hated your mother/father so much that I left her/him to do it by themselves? That having a new family, having a new house, or having toys in your garage are more important than showing your kids that you cared enough about them to make sure that they never went without?
Most good parents would make sacrifices for their kids, these people are asking that some of their children's needs/wants be sacrificed because of their lifestyle...yet they claim to "love their kids more than anything else in the world". The way I see it, if you aren't paying child support then you don't love them as much as you enjoy your money and financial freedom.
This is coming from a woman who didn't eat for a week when the child support was late (it never came) to make sure that the kids had enough food....the same week that their father emptied out his savings to buy a Harley. And he has the same attitude that most of these complaining NCP's forced to pay child support have. It's sickening to me..
· There are mechanisms in place to enforce the payment of child support but none to ensure access is not denied. This has to be addressed.
Not true. A CP can be jailed for contempt of court for breaking a court ordered visitation. If he/she does it enough the child can be placed with the other parent with supervised visits for the CP. I've seen it happen.
· There is no mechanism within the tax act for the sharing of tax deductions for items such as child care. For example, in my case I paid for 50% of the child care in addition to my ex. She got the deduction although she was generous enough to let me share in the portion of the refund attributable to my 50%. The weird thing in the tax act is that even if I paid the child care expenses directly they can only be claimed by the lower income earner even if your divorced. That has to be changed and a method of sharing the deduction for those that pay a portion each instead of one parent receiving the write off.
There's a good reason for this. For one, CP's (male or female) with custody usually has less opportunity and less pay than those who do not have to worry about finding a job during daycare hours. They also lose more time per year than NCP's due to taking time off work when children are sick or have appointed. This is seen as a way to correct the discrepancy. As well, in most cases, government subsidy/tax breaks are given to those who need them. If someone is making too much money to avail themselves of this, why not just let the CP have it all?
Other tax / government benefits – if the 40% rule is applied then the other parent should be able to share in the other tax and government benefits such as the child tax credit, not just one parent. This would provide equity between the parties.
It already is in place with regards to the 40% rule...although if the NCP's income is too high, they wouldn't be eligible anyway and would still recieve nothing.
The final item is with regards to the receipt of child support. I feel that there needs to be mechanism or process for accountability of the funds received but only in situations where the NCP feels that the funds are not being used properly. Like with child support the NCP would have to apply to have a review done, it would not be automatic. This could be handled through the present FMEP offices in the provinces.
This is a bad idea. It would give those with an ax to grind too much interference in their ex's lives. Just think about it. It could lead to more "dirty" situations and more cases ending up in court. There are already safeguards in place for child who do not recieve basic necessities.
We can do it without receiving money from the government and the other parent. And if we can't... what are we told? Get a better job... get another job. If we were to turn around and say that... look at the backlash!
My ex has said it numerous times. Because, in his logic, if I make more, he should contribute less. Even if the bulk of MY income goes to the children, I shouldn't expect him to help out and "make it easier on me". Why not? Everyone's been taking it pretty easy on him since the girls were born. Including me. Why should the people who (by default) have it easier than the custodial parent expect it to be made even easier, when they're not willing make it easier for the same people who are RAISING THEIR KIDS FOR THEM?
The system should not be designed for either parent to come out ahead or behind... it should be designed to benefit children.
Exactly. And when the proof is there that an NCP is asking for a reduction in child support or joint custody because they want to WIN, then those people's cases should be rejected. For instance, my ex did not see the girls for months, did not pay child support, had no income, furnishings, and lived in a rooming house with 6 other men....and yet still expected to be given joint custody. He even stated in court that he wanted exactly 50-50 joint or he'd have NOTHING to do with the kids. Instead of laughing him out of court, the judge asked me to consider it. I simply asked the judge if he'd allow his child to go with another parent with no money for groceries, no beds for them to sleep in, no clothes to wear and the attitude that they're dispensible. The judge shut up.
The courts may not be the best option, but those "bullshit" rules are necessary because of those who don't play nice and do what they should. We've already heard from NCP's who resent having to do anything for the other parent, and would do NOTHING if they could get away with it. Maybe we should blame them instead. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 11:49:37 AM | I must agree with everything that Brandi has said.
I just have one question for Brandi though...
Are you sure that we don't have the same ex?  | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:44:49 PM | i have never heard something so crazy. if you want something bad enough then you FIGHT for it! if you really want joint custody then do whatever you can to prove it's deserved. i'm not quite sure why but i wanted to scream and cry at the same time when reading that. i have an almost 3 year old and i'm the one who's gotten f'd over in this situation. i've been the one workin my butt off while her father goes out and does whatever he wants whenever he wants. to the point that he now has a 4 month old with another girl now. all he says is how much he loves our daughter and wants to see her but he's so busy he just doesn't have the time...that's why the good fathers get crap because it's the not so perfect ones who make you guys look bad.
i'd like to know how any single mother can take a YEAR off for maturnity leave??!! i almost had to go back after 6 weeks! it sucks to see that there are women out there like that. ones who will just sit back and take all they can get from the fathers. i've been too understanding towards my daughter's father to the point i'm not getting child support from him because i know he's goin through a tough time. i'm sorry i'm kinda rambling now. i just wanted to get to the part where you said women drive men to leave...WOW! that's the part that makes me wanna scream!!! it works both ways hunny and you're just makin it sound like all women are like that. i'm sure you're one of those guys who have said that it's wrong that women make all guys sound bad, so don't turn around and make all women sound bad, it's not fair either way.
just keep in mind that if you really want something bad enough you need to fight for it. you sound like you truly love your son and already feel the same about your daughter on the way. you deserve to be a big part in your children's lives so just keep doing the right thing and you'll get what you deserve! | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 1:56:20 PM | Not to reply to anyone in particular
but my ex walked out 5 Christmases ago, out of the blue....
whoevers' fault it was is irrelevant at this point...though I know who she blames lol
I have been the custodial parent ever since and doing a damn fine job if i may say so myself! She is in the Tropics now and I'm sure she is quite tanned!
Occasionally she graces them with her presence.........
I do agree that perhaps men are less likely to win their day in court, but that's because they are less prepared for their day in court. The defeatist attitude that they are not given a snowballs chance in Hell...gives them a snowballs chance in Hell.
Any decent and caring human is capable of raising a child..be them male or female.
It's not whether you can do it, or have the right to do it..it's the fact that it must be done!
Getting caught up in the politics of it all, bending to peer pressure, doubting yourself from the very beginning, and ****ing about the troubles you incur along the way will only show you to be a lesser parent.
My children are straight A students, good responsible kids and will contribute to society in a positive manner.
So this is one single Dad who can honestly say...rise above the crap and get the job done right, no matter what the courts or your ex say about you.
It's about the kids... | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 2:21:46 PM | | Every situation is different. Whether the CP is the father or the mother, they should be given as much help as possible from the NCP. I have little sympathy for NCPs who shirk their financial responsibilities in regards to their children. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/9/2006 3:26:53 PM | These fathers' rights groups are working from the perspective that ALL fathers are these poor put upon men who are being discriminated against because they have a penis. Look at their forums on their websites. Wishing death to their exes, thinking that anyone with a vagina is automatically a liar and a golddigger, suggesting that men not take their kids at all unless they get half physical custody and suggesting that they not pay child support if she can do it alone.
Well I certainly don't believe I fall into this category. I personally agree with you that many of these guys are what actually hurts the "cause", so-to-speak, of good fathers. Those of us who actually give a shit about our children aren't fighting for our rights as much as we are fighting to be allowed to be a part of our children's lives. I remember watching Currents on Global the other night. While there were good points to it, I was rather put back by these men who believed their rights were being violated because they didn't get sole custody. I can see how it would be tough to go through some of the things they have gotten, but they're as much of control freaks as the women many of us have had to deal with. You don't have to "possess" your children in order to be a good parent.
The way I see it, if you aren't paying child support then you don't love them as much as you enjoy your money and financial freedom.
This is the problem I find with the point of view of CP's. "If you are receiving child support, then you love your ex's money more than you love your children." Does it sound nice when the shoe is on the other foot?
This is coming from a woman who didn't eat for a week when the child support was late (it never came) to make sure that the kids had enough food....the same week that their father emptied out his savings to buy a Harley.
This is coming from a father who has lost 40 pounds in the last 10 months because he feeds his daughter first while his ex-wife bought a new swimming pool and got a new lower back tatoo which she happened to decide to show off one day when he was dropping his daughter off.
Because, in his logic, if I make more, he should contribute less.
In the court's logic, if my income goes up, so does my support. Doesn't matter if all other things remain equal (cost of living, etc), if my wages increase, so does the support my ex can expect. Why should she enjoy in my successes in business? She's the one who left... she's the one who decided being a part of my life was not something she was interested in... oh but my money is still good enough.
Part of the problem is that you're coming at it from a point of a mother whose children have a poor excuse for a father. I'm coming at it from the point of view of a father who has his daughter every Tuesday night - Wednesday morning... every second Thursday night - Friday morning... every second weekend from Friday night - Sunday night. And I would have taken more time too, but my ex wouldn't allow a 50-50 split because she didn't want to lose entitlement to Child Support... not even a reduction. I pay my support on time, and I have been late to pick my daughter up once in 2 years... I was 10 minutes late because every stupid bridge to get across the city to pick up my daughter was backed up by either road construction or an accident. My ex has never sent her to me with anything more than the clothes she's wearing, thus I have to provide my daughter with all her clothes when she's here, and I also feed her. There is no reduction in my support... I pay maximum guidelines amounts.
The point of the 50-50 split at the beginning is to give children the benefit of the doubt that all things are equal. Rather than mothers being perfect until proven unfit and fathers unfit until proven perfect... call both parents equal and make alterations as either proves their value. In your case, it sounds like your ex wouldn't have to worry about retaining his 50-50 status for too long. However, it would save a lot of good parents the time and money of court proceedings whilst children are used as bargaining chips by the other. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/10/2006 8:05:17 AM | I have been reading as well. I have been raising my daughter since she has been in diapers and bottles. I receive no cs from her mother and did not apply for it. I admit it has been an interesting journey, however, I would not give it up for the world. My daughter is not 15 and has turned out to be a wonderful girl.
When I went throught the justice system appr. 14 years ago. It was extremely biased for the mother. Today things are different as long as the parents do not use lies and deception to sway the courts.
The only thing I can say is stay child focused and it will pay off for dads and moms. Men and women who are consumed with there own pain will only create more pain for there children.
If both of you where good parents while you were together then it should not make a difference if you no longer love each other. This is what you need to show the courts. Which ever parent is able to show these qualities, then they will be able to show this to their children.
Now when you speak about the money, I have to say that children are expensive. If decide to have a child then you must remember that you are responsible for them for the next eighteen years plus. If you have a child with one woman and you cannot afford that one why would you have another child with another women and think it is going to be better. You should have as many children that you can afford.
We are adults and have to make choices in life. We all need to think a little longer during the heat of the moment. If you want to play the game you need to take the precautions.
Again if you think about the children all the time, you will be better off. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/10/2006 8:19:47 AM |
I must agree with everything that Brandi has said
You actually made it through that post? I didn't realize how much I had written until I reread it and my eyes started to cross....but I'm glad you agree. 
I just have one question for Brandi though...
Are you sure that we don't have the same ex?
I dunno....you ever been to Newfoundland? Although he does have a twin brother who treats his daughter like crap...it might even have been him. :)
I do agree that perhaps men are less likely to win their day in court, but that's because they are less prepared for their day in court. The defeatist attitude that they are not given a snowballs chance in Hell...gives them a snowballs chance in Hell.
Any decent and caring human is capable of raising a child..be them male or female.
It's not whether you can do it, or have the right to do it..it's the fact that it must be done!
Getting caught up in the politics of it all, bending to peer pressure, doubting yourself from the very beginning, and ****ing about the troubles you incur along the way will only show you to be a lesser parent.
Can I email this posting to my ex? Just kidding, but I completely agree. The sad thing about this whole situation is that my ex could have had joint. But not right from the start, because I was breastfeeding. I asked him to hold off until the girls were a little older. That's when this whole thing started in earnest. He seems to view them as possessions that must stay at his house half the time, he sees the child tax credit as a "payment" for having the kids and as such he should recieve half...it's all about "winning" and asserting his "rights".
I think his real problem with the whole situation is that he wants all the control, and he's very frustrated because he doesn't have it. He hates the fact that (because of his past actions) he has to prove himself and is angry because I don't. Well, you know why I don't? Because I've been there from the very beginning, I've made a home for them, I'm the one who's been there when they need something. That's why I don't have to prove it....he seems to think sperm donation is reason enough to be considered a good father.
I guess that's the problem I have with all the whining that's going on. Some people here think that sperm/egg donation is enough of a reason to make it all "fair" and assume joint custody right from the beginning. Well, it's not. Just remember, the bulk of NCP's are the ones who leave their children in the first place. Some disappear for months. Of course it's on them to show why they should be allowed back into their children's lives. It's not up to the CP's to prove that they aren't.
Every situation is different. Whether the CP is the father or the mother, they should be given as much help as possible from the NCP. I have little sympathy for NCPs who shirk their financial responsibilities in regards to their children.
Exactly.
Those of us who actually give a shit about our children aren't fighting for our rights as much as we are fighting to be allowed to be a part of our children's lives.
Then how does not wanting to pay child support play into this?
This is the problem I find with the point of view of CP's. "If you are receiving child support, then you love your ex's money more than you love your children." Does it sound nice when the shoe is on the other foot?
You seem to lack critical thinking skills. They are in no way comparable. First of all, the CP has already proven their love for their children by providing them with a home, and being financially responsible for them. Asking for the NCP to pick up their share of the tab is reasonable... asking that you be "let off the hook" because you can't handle your finances is not.
I do wonder something though...and that's because of something you said that reminds me of my ex..if you don't have enough money for food during the 20% of the time that she's there with you, how in the world do you expect to have enough to cover the groceries the other 30% of the time? I know you'll probably come back with my situation, but keep in mind that stayed off work because of his promise to pay, that's why I was short.I wonder this because my ex has this attitude that somehow everything is magically paid for by the government subsidies I recieve. He thinks that "his" share of the CTB ( which he isn't entitled to recieve) is somehow magically more than enough to raise the children on. He thinks it's enough for medication, groceries,etc. I seriously think you're overestimating how much she actually recieves and how far it goes...and underestimating the actual costs of raising a child.
My ex has never sent her to me with anything more than the clothes she's wearing, thus I have to provide my daughter with all her clothes when she's here, and I also feed her. There is no reduction in my support... I pay maximum guidelines amounts.
Seriously, but why would she send your daughter with anything? Having to buy 3-5 outfits is slightly less expensive than having to provide clothing most of the time, don't you think?. There is also less wear and tear and you don't have to replace them as often. I have to wonder if you're really thinking the whole joint custody thing through. You say that you can barely afford to have your child during the time she's with you, but that you're confident that you can provide for her if she's there even more. What? Even if you get to keep your child support and get half the CTB, you'd also be on the hook for more of her expenses. You'd also have to shell out more for child care while you're working...it's not going to be as easy as you think.
The point of the 50-50 split at the beginning is to give children the benefit of the doubt that all things are equal.
What a pile of garbage....a 50-50 split is not giving the children anything. it's giving the person who walks out the benefit of the doubt. Tell me, if the situation was different, your ex walked out, cleared your accounts and didn't show up for months, do you think it's fair that for those few months until you get to court, that you should have to give her a portion of your income when she doesn't even have the children? Do you think it fair that you'd have to hire and pay for a lawyer (all while shouldering the financial responsibilities)to prove that she's not in their lives in order to protect yourself?
Would you think it fair for you to not only have to care for your child, but to be completely financially responsible? That's what you're asking of your ex, you know... so is it really about your child, or yourself?
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/10/2006 10:31:28 AM | | I feel what your saying but if you were having that much trouble with your first child then why did you not wrap it up and keep it from happen im not here to brow beat you but it is really hard on those kids and remember kids pick up on the tention between parents and if the person you were with was some one you knew or even loved then you would know that money was going to your kids and dads do have rights but you don't have the right to lie about the true moms and saying we chase men off thats not true if you were really men then you would have stayed with us and made a home real men stay and protect there familys sperm doners run | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/10/2006 10:31:35 AM | Would you think it fair for you to not only have to care for your child, but to be completely financially responsible? That's what you're asking of your ex, you know... so is it really about your child, or yourself?
I'm really beginning to think I'm wasting my time even discussing this with you. I'm not asking to get out of paying child support, I'm trying to bounce around ideas of ways to improve the system to better serve children... not you, not me, not either of our exes... children. All you can do is come around throwing around accusations that I'm like your ex in some way or another. All men are supposed to be treated like shit because your children's father sucks? This is why we have these problems with the system is because too many people who are a part of it think the same way.
I don't care if I sound arrogant, but from what you've shared with us, I will tell you that I am ten times the father your ex is. I will also tell you he could pay ten times the support that I do and it still wouldn't make him a good father. The courts can't fix that the man you created your children with is useless. What they can do is stop taking out your frustrations on men who don't fit the same bill as your ex. | |
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| Justice for the good Fathers!!!
Posted: 12/10/2006 10:56:51 AM |
Just remember, the bulk of NCP's are the ones who leave their children in the first place.
are you saying that most fo the guys who are the NCP left their kids, their maiiriage, their wife and took off?
id' sure like to see some stats on that tidbit. | |
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