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nause
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Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 26 | |
| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/11/2006 8:51:54 PM | Now, how long will it take before the number of viruses reach 60K? How about 30K? Or 10K?
Quite a while. The major hurdle is that you have to save the virus, then you have to upgrade your privileges to root (the superuser), then make the virus executable and then you have to run the virus. How easy would it be to convince people to do that for any random email? | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/11/2006 9:02:24 PM |
Now, how long will it take before the number of viruses reach 60K? How about 30K? Or 10K?
there is a crucial difference there! In Windblows you can't do anything unless you have administrative privileges (and I am not talking about the normal installation of programs, I'm talking running them). Almost everything breaks if you are not admin. Winblows XP tried to fix that a bit but not really...
In linux the situation is completely reversed! You don't need to have administrative rights but to install programs and do periodic maintenance and that's about it. So even if the viruses explode (which they will) when linux becomes truly mainstream, they will affect only the user-space and they will be relatively easy to contain and fight. It will never be iike the massive metastatic avalanche of Winblows zomby PCs taken over by viruses or warms and spreading them over and over. That is the very simple but crucial difference in the philosophy of linux.
So if you do your backups regularly, linux will be your guarantee for a safer internet/computer experience. Of course there in no absolute security but it's one thing to run a race with a bicycle and another with an F-1 jet engine... | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/11/2006 11:44:18 PM | I personally like freebsd. Well I dont use it now. I had it running on my laptop for a while. Now I have a domain setup, my files transfer automatically from computer to computer in my house. Its pretty sweet. And I know linux could do it too, but I just dont have the time right now to play with it. Overall, windows is a great productivity OS, where the goal is not to compile a program you want to run, but to do something real. I just find linuxes take too much time up in configuration and such. It is great thou if you just want to run a few applications. But what about photoshop, quickbooks, Outlook(I want all the exchange functionality) etc.. And now dont bring up gimp, its not comparable to photoshop. If I could reliably run all those programs or there would be an absolute equivalent for linux, I would say great, and use it primarily. But Its not so I cant. Most people thou, dont need these programs, and I have even considered selling cheaper pcs with some sort of linux on it. After trying to get my mom to understand how kopete, or firefox works under Gnome, or KDE I gave up. The people that dont need fancy programs and dont know anything about computers, run at the sight of something different. These are the reasons why Linux is not as successfully as it should be. Althou I have high respect for the developer community of linuxes, and how they work together in their spare time. I cant say linux is completely useless thou. I have seen how usefull freebsd was, as a domain server with samba at the place I worked. But I also saw the changes once a windows server os was implemented.
Windows XP PRo x64 and windows 2003 SBS premium all the way! XP will now be what windows 2000 was, while xp was in the retail "beta" stage. A stable trusted platform. And if you never paid for your xp, and not getting the updates, and getting viruses, you have no right to complain. Since I paid for my xp's and getting updates, im not having 10th the problems I had before.
@ above post.
LOL and everyone will surf the internet under root, like they do in administrator mode in windows. | |
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nause
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Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 29 | |
| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/12/2006 4:29:41 AM | Lostrider, it does sound like linux isn't for you, but to address how long it takes to config... One of the great things about Debian, for me, and why I run it on all my servers, is that it takes 7 minutes from putting the CD in, to having a networked base install. Then another 15 minutes or so if I need a tight LAMP setup.
As far as a working desktop, it takes about an hour. I'd say 50 minutes of that is netinstall downloading X, KDE, etc. I keep a separate partition for /home so I rarely have to configure anything on a new install. It's theoretically possible that I have config settings in some apps that I haven't touched since 2000-2001.
I was in the middle of a very tight deadline last year and my drive died. I was working with a Windows friend on the project - someone in the same boat as you, he relies on Photoshop and other Windows-only apps. He was in awe that roughly 3 hours later I was back to work on the project. That included an hour and a half round trip to buy the drive, probably about 50 minutes to install the OS and maybe 30 minutes to transfer files from backup while setting up my IDE. Restarted (for simplicity) and I was back to work, talking to him on IM. No config'ing.
I can't comment on configuring user prefs on a brand new install though, so my point could be moot :(
This is the routine in Debian, from not having firefox installed to viewing the POF site: (if you're comfortable in the shell, otherwise use aptitude instead)
su
apt-get install firefox
exit (to get out of admin privs)
KDE Menu -> Internet -> Firefox
Click in the address bar, type in the URL and hit enter
Now, if you need Flash on a 64bit machine, as mentioned before, run. Hmmmph. | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/12/2006 7:31:07 AM | While I agree with a cuppla the earlier comments about Linux not being the best choice for every user or their individual needs, I think for a great many folks out there, it's problee ALL they need.
The Microsoft death grip on the software world will eventually pass just like eventually Wal Marts will be something we remember as a chain of stores we USED to shop at. It's the way of the world and things in general :>)
At the moment, I'm workin in a 2 person company where we refurbish, repair, sell and broker equipment for the Graphic Arts trades with my Mom and myself as all there is to our little enterprise. Within the next year or so, she plans to retire and I'll be taking it over alone.
The point in the above paragraph is that much of our business and contacts are net based and email, sending out machinery videos and info are a constant part of it all and ..... my Moms choice in OSes and software are now as they've always been ..... Microsoft, much to my personal chagrine I must say !
I despise the waiting every damned day for the system to fire up while Norton does its updates, with the system in cyberlimbo for between 2-10 minutes as it does so (our office is out in an area still limited to dial-up) ! This really is just unacceptable in my mind ! While this update procedure is running NOTHING else on her machine will run at all!!!
When I take this over, I'll be trying Linux as a positive change for initially several areas of our online presence, but will likely still have to use a few Windows applications like Quickbooks.
The migration process and integration out to be fun .... wish me luck
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nause
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Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 31 | |
| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/12/2006 11:27:46 AM | I just finally got rid of Quickbooks. I only used it for time keeping and billing; I have a bookkeeper that takes care of the rest. I'll use it to open the files she gives me, but that's about it.
If they did have a linux version though, I'd go back to using it. But I'm sure that's not worth it to them just yet. | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/13/2006 8:13:54 PM | I've used Debian for so long that using anything else just seems like a straight-jacket. I do have Slackware loaded for some development work as I like its clean default install.
No question, the current state of the Linux desktop is a couple of orders of magnitude better than it was just a few years ago. Since I've been using Linux as my primary desktop for almost nine years, its evolution has been nothing short of amazing. I've converted to using KDE full time over the past year. It has been a slow process, but they won me over.
In another thread someone mentioned that XMMS was flakey. Last week I discovered a replacement for XMMS (actually a fork twice removed) called Audacious. It uses the WinAmp Classic/XMMS skins and does its job very well. I think I can purge XMMS and Beep Media Player now. 
Wireless was mentioned earlier. I've had good luck with Atheros chipset based cards. Even though the driver source is in the non-free section of Debian, all one has to do is install the source package through Aptitude (or your favorite package manager) and then run two short commands invoking module-assistant which takes care of all the dirty work of building the drivers and installing them in the proper modules directory. Then I used wlassistant to setup my WEP enabled wireless link in a few minutes.
Linux has gotten so easy that I've started to play with Debian Hurd!
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/13/2006 10:01:05 PM | This is true, over the last 5 years linux has exploded into the mainstream. People that thought computers = Windows at least know nowdays there is an alternative but rumor has it it is "difficult" to use, soon that rumor will be gone...
After I learned linux I can't go back to anything. With the command line at my disposal I can feel like a king. Right now I'm encrypting my whole internet connection through SSH to go through my office desktop into the outside world for example. All that with one line of a command I have full encryption of my internet connection from here to my office since I'm not using a trusted network...
Maintenance and general setting up of linux has truly become awesomely easy. The dependency hell is long gone with package managers like 'yum' or 'apt-get'.
Whatever wireless cards are not directly supported 'ndiswrapper' will most likely be able to utilize them. I'm using it right now in my Broadcom wireless card (although the open source bcm43xx is steadily gaining ground)...
So all it takes today is for people to think about the linux option is:
1) be really fed up with Windows, viruses, blue screen of death, proprietary software in unrealistic prices, DRM, crawling speeds
2) be curious and ready to learn | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/14/2006 4:23:06 PM |
2) be curious and ready to learn
This is the biggest reason for success in any endeavor.
It's also important to go in with an open mind. Windows has one paradigm and a Linux based system has another (actually, Windows has quite a different paradigm between the old DOS based versions and the NT based versions as well as between releases, while the different paradigms in Linux often revolve around the different distributions and their releases). It's natural for people to want to translate what they know across to the other system. Some things translate well and others do not and there is frustration when this is encountered (this works in both directions and not just in a Windows to Linux direction).
One paradigm that is difficult to understand when it is first encountered is that Unix based systems like Linux have a definite demarcation between privileged and unprivileged use. With NT based Windows this is not as difficult to come to terms with as it was when coming from the old DOS based Windows where there was no user separation.
Ten years after my first experimentations in Linux I am still learning new things. If nothing else, it is an endless opportunity to learn.
As for arguments that a Linux based system is difficult to use, my brother is not the techno-nerd that I am, yet he uses the Debian system I set up for him using KDE with little help from me. Meanwhile I administer the system. If you're doing system administration for family anyway, you might as well make it as painless as possible! I will upgrade his box once Debian Etch goes stable and then probably leave it alone for a while until something compelling besides security updates comes along. | |
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nause
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Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 35 | |
| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/15/2006 3:59:08 AM |
Some things translate well and others do not and there is frustration when this is encountered (this works in both directions and not just in a Windows to Linux direction).
Exactly. If there were some compelling reason for me to switch to Windows, it'd be quite a while before I could afford to do it. | |
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guy220
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 36 | |
| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/15/2006 11:58:51 AM | As an "Advanced" PC user I prefer Gentoo. It gives me what I want and nothing else. Have it running on my Webserver and Laptop. My main system is XP just cause I couldn't be bothered to get the game(s) I play running under Linux.
BTW, the new Core 2 Duo processors make quiet and POWERFUL systems. They also produce oh I'd say 1/3 the heat as my last P4 3.2EE. :)
Cheers  | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/15/2006 6:25:22 PM | Yeah my main geek buddy is a software engineer and is runnin a dual core AMD 64 set up with Gentoo on his machine too. I'm soooo jealous, he's got 4gigs of RAM and just set up a terrabite raid array system.
This is waaay more than I have on my machine but I want to build a new system in the coming year and will do so with a core duo system when I do. I dunno if I'll switch OSes when I do, Ubuntu is likely about my limit within the Linux realm in my own abilities at this point, or is Gentoo something to consider for a novice user like myself? Though I can play in the GUI commands like I know what I'm doin (yeah right:>), I'm absolutely lost when it comes to the command line functions & have to enlist my buddys help any time I have to do something in the terminal window.
Here's a little anecdote that really made my day a while back :
I was settin up a machine for my 17yo daughter and since she'd been usin XP on her Moms computer before she moved in with me, though runnin as a user on my Ubuntu system on her weekends here I asked whether she wanted to have me set it up with XP or Ubuntu. Her response was heartwarming : "I want Ubuntu on my computer Daddy. I don't want any of that Microsoft crap on MY computer!"
Outta the mouths of babes :>)
Kim | |
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nause
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Joined: 11/13/2006
Msg: 39 | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/16/2006 7:54:14 AM | | From what I have read about Vista, and also what manufactures are planning to do with hardware over the next couple of years, I think people will be flocking to Linux-based OSes in droves. I have a machine that's dual boot Windows XP and Ubuntu so that I can learn more about a linux-based OS. But according to what I've read lately about Vista, I will NEVER have it on my computer. I'll run XP until it's not supported anymore, and by then I think Ubuntu and others will have made great strides in development and support, and have a much larger user base. | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/16/2006 9:33:07 AM | Yeah, from what I've read about Vista I think Microslush is being very ambitious in expecting folks to not only invest in a new OS, but also put forward a healthy investment in hardware at the same time just to even allow them to run it. That seems very foolhearty to me but does make me wonder how much Microsoft has invested in various hardware manufacturers :>)
I'm sure there will be plenty enough fans of Windows just chompin at the bit to run out and buy Bills latest offering, even at the cost of a new computer, but I think you're right on there SeriousSam in sayin this move will also fascilitate people explorin other options just as well.
Even as one definitely NOT a member of the full on geek crew, I can appreciate a lot of things about Ubuntu. Things like NOT lockin up every time I try runnin a handful of applications at the same time, having to run all that system speed killin software required to keep the hackers at bay, the wide availability of FREE software just there for the taking WITHOUT havin to steal or crack anything, along with the total tuneability of the set up I choose to run.
The worm is turnin slowly, but definitely turnin, and I think this time Microsoft will even be helpin it do so with Vista :>)
Kim | |
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| Linux Ubuntu/Edubuntu/Kubuntu, users thoughts on the Penguins progress :>)
Posted: 12/19/2006 3:36:30 PM | hi
anybody know a work around for the asus p5w deluxe dh can't read cd during install error?
distro = mandrake 2007...but from what i've read it's a lot of distros.
boots from dvd fine, finds sata drive and cd (must cause it loads alt. drivers after the first can't read cd try, installs ata_PIIX drivers then calves....
nothing wrong with dvd player/burner works fine in windows and worked fine in linux on last mb(asus a8n-sli premium)
no setting in bios for ahci | |
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