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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/4/2007 11:44:11 AM | Curves, thanks, but I have been tested for thyroid, it's low functioning but in the normal range. And Best dear, no offense was taken, it was the example from which I drew my inspiration. You wear wearing your muse hat. And you are most kind, I thank you.
I have maintained (the last four years) a size 6 AND the "size 6" is not perfect and did not make my body perfect!
No amount of anything including surgery will make anyone's body perfect until they see it as perfect for them, because there is flaw in everything in nature. It is the combination of flaws and symmetry that makes us beautiful and much more interesting.
GLORY be to God for dappled things—
For skies of couple-colour as a brinded cow;
For rose-moles all in stipple upon trout that swim;
Fresh-firecoal chestnut-falls; finches’ wings;
Landscape plotted and pieced—fold, fallow, and plough;
And áll trádes, their gear and tackle and trim.
All things counter, original, spare, strange;
Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?)
With swift, slow; sweet, sour; adazzle, dim;
He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change:
Praise him.
Pied Beauty - Gerard Manley Hopkins
One time my chubby buddy and I were in the women's section of The Spa Hotel in Palm Springs. We treated ourselves to a day of sitting naked in the steam rooms and saunas and mineral baths. We were sitting enjoying our iced teas and chicken breast with salad lunches and we were watching a truly gorgeous woman. She had been in and out of the treatment rooms chatting on and off with us most of the morning and had shared one of the rooms when we had a mud bath. She was having a skinny plastic body wrap of some sort. She had what we, well, what anyone would consider a flawless body. Breasts, not too large or small, perfectly formed with a small waist and a butt with not one ounce of cellulite on it coupled with lovely legs. It might have easy to hate her because she looked like walking perfection, but we could not, because this Venus before us was weighing herself for what had to be the 15th time since we arrived there. Each time she weighed herself, she would sigh and wrinkle her unmarked brow in total frustration. She sat down to lunch with a small garden salad with no dressing, just a lemon slice sipping her mineral water. She looked across the table at us and said plaintively; "I have to go to a party tonight and my husband thinks I am looking fat, so I was hoping to sweat off some of this weight with the wrap and in the saunas but it does not look as if it is going to help." She actually had tears in her eyes. We looked at her in utter amazement and told her she was the best looking woman we had ever seen. She replied, "I have so many figure problems, you just don't notice them like I do because you don't see me everyday."
My friend Jiji kicked me because she knows me well enough to know when I am ready to go off on a rant. I was just about to tell her to tell her husband to go f*** himself and dump him, but upon seeing the look amounting to a death threat from my friend, I spared her the full and complete version of my rant. I did lean over towards her and say, "do not ever let anyone make you feel less than what you are, which is a beautiful and intelligent woman."
This day was what changed my mind about my weight issues.
If you want to, you can even find flaw in perfection. Lewis Black says we are like snowflakes. No two of us are exactly alike. It's only by embracing the flaws as part of the whole that we can appreciate things for what they really are, different and varied and amazing and wonderful and individual. To do less than this is to live in fear, which is a life that you only live halfway. | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 79 | |
| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/4/2007 2:26:12 PM | Mominatrix.... I wish I lived close enough to go out and have a coffee with you.
Your story about the lady at the spa reminds me of one of my coworkers.
In most peoples opinions she is absolutely stunning, slim, athletic, curves in the right places, intelligent, sweet, has a handsome bf. But having spent time with her outside of work I'm almost certian she's bulemic (spl)....and it just makes me so sad that she doesn't see how beautiful she is inside and out, that she hurts herself so much.
I know that that is an extreme case....but it is still relavent. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/4/2007 2:32:22 PM | I think it's more important to love yourself then your body to be quite frank. Once you can love and accept yourself as you are...with qualities and character defects...the rest comes naturally.
If someone loves my mind, my heart and my soul, then it should come naturally to love my body just as it is...whether I lose weight or gain weight.
I think I'm beautiful just the way I am, because I know what kind of person I am...a person full of compassion for humanity...willing to lend an ear and help those in need the best way I can. A person that can appreciate the smalls things in life...enjoy laughter...a smile...a kind gesture.
This is where true beauty lies. Innate kindness in people. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/4/2007 2:35:59 PM | One of my favorite quotes is :
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"~Eleanor Roosevelt
I now live by this mantra after having berated myself for decades and allowing others to make me feel less than desirable all because I didn't wear a specific size or weigh a certain amount.
It's an attitude that I'd wish I'd adopted years ago-Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and most women unfortunately don't see their own "beauty" which is why you started this thread OP. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 7:54:39 AM | This one totally made me laugh my head right off my shoulders.
Do us women like out bodies, for the majority of us, we like what we have and if we dont there are quick fixes everywhere nowadays, to sort out what we dont like.
BUT the men,
they seem to have no pride in themselves at all, bald, fat, unkept, big bellies, terrible skin, when they have all the products the same as us, the same facilities to sort out their messy bodies (and what is all the 'no' deodorant about these days) mmmmmmmmm
From what I see women have no problems, its the men who need mirrors  | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 1:41:50 PM | While you have a valid point about deoderant, I don't think you really get they way men are when you say something like "they seem to have no pride in themselves at all, bald, fat, unkept, big bellies, terrible skin, when they have all the products the same as us, the same facilities to sort out their messy bodies".
Sure, men can frequently go from frumpy to eye-catching by just cleaning up (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy proved that), but they really are NOT as critical of themselves as we women are of ourselves. It is something to admire.
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:07:21 PM | Sure, men can frequently go from frumpy to eye-catching by just cleaning up (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy proved that), but they really are NOT as critical of themselves as we women are of ourselves. It is something to admire.
Women are less picky when it comes to physical tastes.  There's not enough demand for a change, and when there is, the details are vague and wildly varied. Or my favorite, tall dark and handsome. Tall can't be changed. Dark, can be changed but it's not easy or natural, and handsome....this can be fixed to a degree.
On the otherhand, we're guys. Made of snips of snails, and puppy dog tails. Bald hairy and stinky are more natural. We're kind of expected to be gross to a degree.
Also, we can see that even the ugliest of guys can still get a great woman. I'm sure the same issues would exist if there was more of a demand on changable and definable features. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:28:43 PM | I seriously think its not men mainly but ourselves that are extremely hard on our bodies/ body image and such.
OP, you rock so much for saying this I wanna wave a lighter at you and yell "Free bird!".
On the other hand...
Over 68% of the female population wear a size 12 or larger and over half of all U.S. Women wear a size 14 or larger. But if the majority of women are larger than a size 12, then why are we considered the minority.
It is a fact that our nation has one of the highest rates of obesity in the world, and that number is especially high among women. Just because you all are larger than a size fourteen, doesn't mean you're all *supposed* to be.
Should you hate yourself for being less than perfect? No. Not at all. Should it give other people a free pass to make mooing noises when you walk by? Hardly, and they should be resoundly punched in the nads. On the other hand, resting on your laurels and saying "I'm perfect, I don't need to improve myself" isn't such a good idea, either. According to the BMI, I'm borderline obese. You'd never know it to look at me, and I've accepted my image. However, I am doing my best to slim down by eating healthier and exercising where I can. We all should strive to better ourselves in all aspects of our lives, whether it be health, appearance, education, attitude, or goals.
There's a difference between doing your best and working with what you've got in terms of self-improvement versus hating yourself over it and letting it control you. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:43:19 PM | | As sure as I'm typing this it's true..... reguardless of what you look like, there's someone out there who will match up perfectly with you..... Thinks you're the hottest thing ever, you have a great time together......etc....It'll happen. ( And believe me, I'm preaching to myself, because I have a hard time believing it ). I'll only say this as a guy who had some wonderful dates in September.... This woman was previously much heavier. ( She told me just how heavy). She had very DEEP stretch marks...... She had a scar from hip-to-hip from a tummy tuck. She was always worried about what I thought about these things. I will swear to this day...... that woman was the SEXIEST, most attractive, caring, wonderful woman I could imagine. If you're a woman ( Or guy for that matter) who dwells on your flaws..... Trust me.....there are people who will never even notice, and even better....EMBRACE exactly who you are at this moment! Love and even attraction CAN be blind. Who cares what the person walking by you thinks....... The attraction is between you and her..... nobody else..... Girls, there is a guy out there that would kill to be with you.....remember that, it's true. If I have to be patient, so do you, lol! I wish everybody on this site the best for 2007! | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 89 | |
| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:06:38 PM | Wonka.
As I've said b4 I promote health......and for some women they can be healthy with a larger body...thats they way they are built....and for many others they can't be. But I think if a woman is a size 20 but she can run/walk/climb/work 8 hours a day, come home and clean/cook and look after a family....all with out extreme exhaustion and a doc tells her that dispite her wt, all her blood work ect is normal.....Then why should she hate her body.
Because society tells her she should look like a stick?
I do know this is not the majority....but there are definitally many women out there that are quite healthy and they are not a size 6....they are probably classified as a few extra pounds to mild BBW's.
Now on the other hand if you can't do all that, lack energy, have health problems related to obesity.......then I'm not saying be happy and love your body.....I'm also not saying hate it, but do something about it! Its not easy....boy do I know that...and motivation can be hard on some days. But well its worth it.........not to look better, but to feel better. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:12:44 PM | Wonka.
As I've said b4 I promote health......and for some women they can be healthy with a larger body...thats they way they are built....and for many others they can't be. But I think if a woman is a size 20 but she can run/walk/climb/work 8 hours a day, come home and clean/cook and look after a family....all with out extreme exhaustion and a doc tells her that dispite her wt, all her blood work ect is normal.....Then why should she hate her body.
She shouldn't.
Women who are larger but still healthy have a different look about them than women who aren't, and it's very attractive. You, for example, have a glow about you - your smile lights up your whole face and it's lovely. I sympathize with you being irked that fashon magazines are full of teenaged girls, but I have to frown at a Cheetos-eating hippo that's just had her second bypass who's saying "everyone's a size 20. you're just a fat hater that's been brainwashed by the media. pass me another stack of pancakes."*
Maybe the medical folks can answer me this, but I've been to other countries and I've never seen as many fat people as I've seen in the US. If it's truly genetic, if they are truly healthy at that size, and if that's the way women are "supposed" to be, why are only US women this large?
I think the main problem is that women (and men as well) can't figure out what parts of their appearance they should work to improve, and what parts they should just be satisfied with because it won't change much. So they either hate it all or love it all, and neither extreme is healthy.
* Not directed at anyone in this thread. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:28:51 PM | | I have seen scientific articles, shows, what have you that make mention to the fact that Asian countries like Japan have a historical diet that is high in rice and fish (caused by heavy rainfall, which favors rice and makes growing other crops hard). They argue that fast food hasn't had the same impact as it did in the U.S. because they still eat enough fish and rice etc. that they can frequent McDonalds and still have a balanced diet. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:40:26 PM | I have seen scientific articles, shows, what have you that make mention to the fact that Asian countries like Japan have a historical diet that is high in rice and fish (caused by heavy rainfall, which favors rice and makes growing other crops hard). They argue that fast food hasn't had the same impact as it did in the U.S. because they still eat enough fish and rice etc. that they can frequent McDonalds and still have a balanced diet.
I don't know about anywhere else, but in China no one "frequents" McDonald's because it's too expensive, and they know it's junk food. Unlike here in America, Big Macs don't form the staple of the Chinese diet; healthier meat-and-vegetable-based dishes do. | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 93 | |
| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:49:17 PM |
I think the main problem is that women (and men as well) can't figure out what parts of their appearance they should work to improve, and what parts they should just be satisfied with because it won't change much. So they either hate it all or love it all, and neither extreme is healthy.
Very good point.
And thanks for the complement...
I know myself what I need to change....and what I don't want to change. I'm not one of those women that says I wish I had Angelina's lips....or JLo's booty, or Hali's Breasts. I'll admitt they look amazing on them, but I like my face just fine thanks, theres nothing wrong with it at all lol. And those are the things that make plastic surgeons rich rich rich.
And I do believe that indulgence is allowed and healthy if you follow a balanced diet in the first place...But when you've lived your life with too much indulgence, and not enough balance its a struggle to get it right somedays....but its needed. Society is a strange place, in North America and especially the US....
Society says thin/athletic bodies are the only beautiful form we are allowed to worship, yet at the same time....... health care is extremely expensive, I have never seen so many restaurants in my life, supersizing/mega large portions seem to be a norm, as if to say you are pathetic if you don't want bigger and better. Heck when I went to my brothers wedding in Texas I could hardly find a sidewalk....no one walked anywhere, everyone drove, even if it was just across the street.
So how does it work......that thin/athletic body is completely opposite to the lifestyle that is followed. I'm not saying then lets love fat.....I'm just saying something has to change. Hopefully its its the eating out less, and smaller portions instead of 60% of the nation being fat....with Canadians following the US lead. | |
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Kerrim
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Joined: 10/10/2006
Msg: 94 | |
| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 3:56:50 PM | i've accepted myself as i am. luckily i've met many great people who accept who i am aswell..playing lacrosse you do need a certain level of fitness.. (even if i am a goaltender) and i've grown accustom to being the biggest/tallest on the team.. i cant say im completely happy with myself but i also realize i was born a certain way, and its also my responsibility to look after myself and keep fit. i really feel bad for the women who go on those reality shows like "taking it off" and "the biggest loser" because in some cases those women dont need the drastic changes they are forced to make. these are beautiful women.. all women are beautiful and its time we all realized this. we may not have perfect complexions, or mile long legs. but we all have qualities that make us who and what we are; which is beautiful  | |
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kmhstx
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Joined: 8/23/2005
Msg: 95 | |
| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 4:03:16 PM | Kerrim.
Smart smart young woman. I tell you if I knew what you know now when I was your age (lol does that make sense) anyway I wouldn't probably have to struggle so hard to be healthier now. Don't change...at all. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 4:07:48 PM | People's self image (body included) are driven by what other people tell them about themselves, at least initially. From childhood on, our opinions about ourselves are largely a product of feedback/input we get from our environment, family/friends/schoolmates, etc.
Sometimes, we learn to overcome negative feedback and develop a realistic healthy self-image in spite of it. It takes a conscious effort to do so.
I'm not trying to avoid the topic of body image, rather just comment about self image in general, and say that it's within all of our powers to focus more on our own positive self image and build that up and be more conscious of the input we're giving others.
If all of us would take our focus off what our bodies and appearances looked like and spent more time developing and nourishing about the inner us, our soul rather than our shell, we could help to create a much more humane personal environment to live in.  | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 4:52:28 PM |
Maybe the medical folks can answer me this, but I've been to other countries and I've never seen as many fat people as I've seen in the US. If it's truly genetic, if they are truly healthy at that size, and if that's the way women are "supposed" to be, why are only US women this large?
I am not sure what country you have been in or what part of that country. Because it depends on what country you are in. Go to Tonga or Samoa and 75% of the population there is overweight. If you are good with statistics, you can easily make them say a lot of different things. Sure, in Rwanda only 9% of the population BMI index over the 30% mark, sounds ideal, right? Half of their people have no food. It boils down to the availability of food.
There was a big best seller here called "French Women Don't Get Fat." The French are reputed to be one of the thinner societies. Interesting, since their 2005 statistics show that 40% of their citizens are overweight, compared with the 50% in Britian and 63% here. This is an increase of 5% since 1997. In fact, in France alone obesity "treatment" is a $12.8 billion industry. If anyone wants this, I have citations. Every other German is oveweight as well.
How much you weigh is a combination of individual biology and the environment. The US is sort of an interesting place with regards to individual biology. We are a country with enormous ethnic and racial diversity. A place like France is somewhat more homogenous. Different ethnic groups due to the climactic conditions and the food availability in the areas from which they came have drastically different metabolisms. They come here and we all have the similar crappy diet.
There was an interesting broadcast on NPR right before Christmas. It talked about a study at Washington University in St. Louis. They compared the gut bacteria of fat and skinny mice by testing mice that had a gene for obesity and their siblings that did not have the gene. It turned out that the obese mice had a smaller proportion of a kind of bacteria known as Bacteroidetes and a larger amount of firmicutes. They then carried the theory over into 12 obese humans. They found as the humans lost weight the bacteria the gut bacteria counts changed.
Next they had to determine what came first, the bacteria or the fat? To find out, the lab took mice that had never been exposed to any bacteria at all, who had no gut bacteria. Half of them got bacteria taken from skinny mice. The other half got bacteria from fat mice. Both groups put on some body fat. But the mice that received bacteria from obese donors gained more fat over the course of the experiment. They have yet to carry this experiment over into humans.
I think the question that something like this raises are fascinating from a sociological perspective. Posts like this one:
Why is it that people with physical flaws they cannot change--say a missing body part--can deal with it and move on, and yet people with a flaw they can change--obesity--whine about how evil men are for not finding them attractive?
and
but I have to frown at a Cheetos-eating hippo that's just had her second bypass who's saying "everyone's a size 20. you're just a fat hater that's been brainwashed by the media. pass me another stack of pancakes." become more interesting. Our society has a lot invested in the idea that overweight people are just undisciplined and lazy. I know a lot of thin people that eat like horses and drink cokes all day and never gain an ounce. If weight is ultimately found to be primarily genetically based, what does that mean in a broader sense?
Just a question. :) | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 5:05:35 PM | Our society has a lot invested in the idea that overweight people are just undisciplined and lazy. I know a lot of thin people that eat like horses and drink cokes all day and never gain an ounce. If weight is ultimately found to be primarily genetically based, what does that mean in a broader sense?
I think, at least from my perspective, the problem is twofold.
If you're healthy, you're healthy. I'm ok with that. If you're *not* healthy... well, it's still really none of my business, but I've yet to see a skinny person, regardless of lifestyle, for example sue an airline because they were charged for two seats (because their butt was so big they needed them), or loudly and vehemently insult every man that didn't find a 400-lb figure attractive (like so often happens here). Were skinny people to do this, I'd be aggravated at that, too (and before you ask, I think people that sue tobacco companies need a kick in the head). Granted, airline seats *are* too small, but at what point does making them larger stop being practicality and start being "catering to a nation of fatasses that should really be in the gym".
If you're the size of a zeppelin because your thyroid hates you, I sympathize; but if you're that big because you lead a slovenly lifestyle, I don't sympathize at all - especially if you rationalize it rather than do something about it and then complain that the rest of society doesn't approve. Likewise, if you look like an extra from an old Ray Harryhausen Sindbad movie* because you think that since thin is in, ribcages are sexy, I'll think you're nuts.
Now, if weight is found to be primarily genetic... first, I'll be real surprised. But if it is, then hopefully we'll figure out a way to genetically engineer everyone to be in perfect health. But that's just me, and everyone has their own opinions on the future of... uh... "bodybuilding". 
* Skeletons with swords. Remember? | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 5:35:15 PM | I think airline seats should be larger too, my ass fits in them just fine now, it's my shoulders and fighting over the armrests that gets to me. Men having larger shoulders and better upper body strength gives them an unfair advantage in the armrest wars.
If you're the size of a zeppelin because your thyroid hates you, I sympathize; but if you're that big because you lead a slovenly lifestyle, I don't sympathize at all - especially if you rationalize it rather than do something about it and then complain that the rest of society doesn't approve.
How do we tell them apart at a glance? And do the people with the thyroid problems get the extra airline seat for free while the slovenly need to pay for them?
loudly and vehemently insult every man that didn't find a 400-lb figure attractive (like so often happens here).
Hey, don't limit this behavior to the female of the species! There are plenty of men here starting threads complaining about precisely this!
they seem to have no pride in themselves at all, bald, fat, unkept, big bellies, terrible skin, when they have all the products the same as us, the same facilities to sort out their messy bodies (and what is all the 'no' deodorant about these days) mmmmmmmmm
From what I see women have no problems, its the men who need mirrors
Admittedly, I have an issue with dissing bald men. It's like criticizing someone for being short. It's not as if they can help this. Some of them are downright cute.
The interesting difference, is that men don't seem to want or need a body image thread. This says a lot about women and about societal expectations of womanhood. I have never heard a man utter "do these jeans make my ass look fat?" The fact that men are primarily visual is of course a consideration, but women tend to internalize criticism. Now that women are becoming more visual, which I think is in part due to online dating, the men are whining like a bunch of pansies all over these forums about how women only want "hot" men. Welcome to our universe, hope you enjoy your stay.
There is a thread about women who wear clothes that are inappropriate, too small, too young, blah blah blah. As women we should not be asking if the jeans make our ass look fat. We need to state unequivocably that we do not care if the jeans make our ass look fat. We like the jeans and we are going to wear them. That is the goal of the healthy body image. | |
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| Body Image....can women really accept what we have?
Posted: 1/5/2007 5:45:33 PM | How do we tell them apart at a glance? And do the people with the thyroid problems get the extra airline seat for free while the slovenly need to pay for them?
We don't. Airplane seats are made for midgets. They need to be larger, period.
What we need to do is find out how many people are fat because of "legitimate" reasons versus how many need to put down the fork. That's the problem... right now, a lot people think all fat people are just too keen on Snickers, and the fat people themselves keep saying "it's my thyroid". I'd be interested to see those numbers and find out who's right... and if they contradicted my view on the topic then my next question would be, "how did the entire US get a thyroid condition?" - then I'd expect the scientists to find a cure.
I'm a firm believer in survival of the fittest. If the entire US has a thyroid problem, our scientists need to cure it. If the entire US needs to put down the fork, then it's up to the rest of us to say "we are not going to foot the bill for your ridiculous lifestyle choices." - 'cause you know the airline'd give us bigger seats and then raise ticket prices to offset the expense. If we had socialized medicine, I'd be a little pissed off if my medical taxes went to pay for some guy's cancer treatment when he smoked like a chimney for the last three decades. Same thing. I just don't feel it's right for people to darn near kill themselves and then expect other people, like doctors and scientists, to clean up after them, as it were - when they could have avoided it in the first place.
Hey, don't limit this behavior to the female of the species! There are plenty of men here starting threads complaining about precisely this!
*Men* are complaining about women not liking their weight? I thought it was the men complaining about being short, bald, ugly doormats. Every time I see a weight thread around here it's started by a woman. But I digress, and you're right.
The interesting difference, is that men don't seem to want or need a body image thread. This says a lot about women and about societal expectations of womanhood.... Now that women are becoming more visual, which I think is in part due to online dating, the men are whining like a bunch of pansies all over these forums about how women only want "hot" men. Welcome to our universe, hope you enjoy your stay.
I *think* there's a difference because enough women are still picking men for their non-physical attributes that men don't feel the need to change, but that is slowly changing. Mens' magazines are starting to push the rock-hard, six-pack look on us, too; it's just that we've only got like three mags versus your eighty.
As women we should not be asking if the jeans make our ass look fat. We need to state unequivocably that we do not care if the jeans make our ass look fat. We like the jeans and we are going to wear them. That is the goal of the healthy body image.
"Free bird!"  | |
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