| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/3/2009 7:02:40 PM | | I like men with long hair (I also like men with short hair, whatever suits the guy). I certainly don't think men with long hair should be treated any differently than men with short hair, it's just discrimination. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 78 | |
| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 2:42:18 PM | some amount of professionalism
How is hair a measure of professionalism, especially considering that the affectation of "short hair" came about because of the poor hygiene of those returning from trench warfare, lice and scabies, etc, ...not the other way around?
How is this not just fashion conformity via affectation?
If it isn't, then why doesn't the same bigotry via affectation apply to women?
Would you rather deal with a "professional" who adheres to a fashion paradigm, or a professional who does their job well? | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 3:21:08 PM |
How is hair a measure of professionalism, especially considering that the affectation of "short hair" came about because of the poor hygiene of those returning from trench warfare, lice and scabies, etc, ...not the other way around?
How is this not just fashion conformity via affectation?
If it isn't, then why doesn't the same bigotry via affectation apply to women?
Would you rather deal with a "professional" who adheres to a fashion paradigm, or a professional who does their job well
It doesn't make someone any more or less professional, but by todays standards it looks more professional. As far as reasons not to have long hair there's several besides just hygiene. I don't have long hair by anymeans, but when I "grow it out" I usually get complimented on it, and have had people ask to run their hands through it. By the time it gets to that length I'm about sick of and and cut it off again. Speaking of which I do need to get another haircut. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 80 | |
| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 3:49:22 PM |
As far as reasons not to have long hair there's several besides just hygiene.
Historically, short hair did not become a fashion trend until after the Great War, any even casual observation of history, culture, and art makes this very clear.
Any claim to long hair being "unprofessional" has less factual evidence behind it than claiming that people cut their hair because of lice and scabies (I'm not claiming this, just pointing out the source of the fashion trend of short hair in the west), both claims are rooted in bigotry and presupposition, not reasoned conclusion. | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 7:19:03 PM | | ^ Who said anything about fashion. The Great War that you decided to use as an example was several decades ago. Not exactly the best reference point in terms of fashion. I stand by my argument about the professionalism though. While longer hair does require more maintaince, shorter hair tends to looks more "kept". As I said, its not about it being truly unprofessional, but the unprofessional image that it portrays to a lot of people. Again, I'll say that there's other reasons not to have it. If someone choses to thats fine, but they can't get upset if anything negative happens because of it | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 82 | |
| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 7:44:25 PM |
Not exactly the best reference point in terms of fashion.
It's perfect in terms of historical root causality
I stand by my argument about the professionalism though.
I stand by my argument about bigotry and presupposition/prejudice
but they can't get upset if anything negative happens because of it
On the contrary, bigotry and presupposition/prejudice are societal problems that aren't helped by apathy. | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 8:41:08 PM | | ^So if someone that works around machinery gets their hair caught. Is that somebody elses fault? Also, why do you think that people in the military, LE, corrections, etc have short hair? You can't say hygiene, because we are worlds apart hygien wise from WW1 til now. You're looking to blame other people instead of excepting what is. You have to own up to the choices you make and anything that may become of those choices. The fact is that in todays culture that being cleancut is concidered a professional look. Doesn't make it right or wrong, or the person any more or less capable of doing the job. Its simply fact. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 84 | |
| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 8:48:42 PM | So if someone that works around machinery gets their hair caught.
There are safety regulation regarding this, interestingly they apply to both men and women.
Also, why do you think that people in the military, LE, corrections, etc have short hair? You can't say hygiene, because we are worlds apart hygien wise from WW1 til now.
I already covered this too.
You have to own up to the choices you make and anything that may become of those choices.
And so does everybody else, bigotry is also a "choice", one based on ignorance, presupposition and prejudice.
The fact is that in todays culture that being cleancut is concidered a professional look.
I'm sure most would place more value on skill if the question is actually asked, skills are more important than hair styles, spelling and grammar are skills one expects from a "professional", for example.
Doesn't make it right or wrong, or the person any more or less capable of doing the job. Its simply fact.
Wrong.
If not, please show me the same policy that applies to women?
It's that simple. | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:05:57 PM | | ^ Dang your dense. Yes, there are regulations in place but with shorter hair its a non-issue. Milatary, LE, corrections in the like don't have short hair just because of hygiene. Like I already stated we are worlds apart hygiene wise from WW1 til now. You are really stuck on this bigotry thing aren't you? Who said it has anything to do with bigotry. If you have two equally qualified candidates, the one with the most professional appearance is likely the one to get hired unless the employer is trying to meet some EEO crap. So I'm wrong in the fact that someone chosing to have long hair doesn't make a difference morally or skill wise. Please explain that one. We are talking about men with long hair. Its the social norm for women to have long hair so this topic wouldn't apply to them. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 86 | |
| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:14:52 PM | Who said it has anything to do with bigotry.
Who has to, it's self-evident.
So I'm wrong in the fact that someone chosing to have long hair doesn't make a difference morally or skill wise.
Yes, this is as true as the converse proposition, hence judgment of same in regards to "professionalism" is pure bigotry.
I'm sure that those who subscribe to such bigotry will think it valid, this does not make it so.
Bigotry's like that though.
Milatary, LE, corrections in the like don't have short hair just because of hygiene.
As long as this holds true regardless of gender, then –agreed.
Its the social norm for women to have long hair so this topic wouldn't apply to them.
Now were back to historical reference and causality in regards to fashion/affectation.  | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 9:32:41 PM | You seem to fail to realize that our society has put different social standards on males and females. Because of this people who go against the norm for their area, race, religion, etc are going to be viewed differently. That doesn't make the person who choses to go outside of the social norm wrong and it doesn't the other person a bigot.
From dictionary.com:
big⋅ot⋅ry /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [big-uh-tree] Show IPA
Use bigotry in a Sentence
See web results for bigotry
See images of bigotry
–noun, plural -ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot
Simply not agreeing with someone doesn't make them a bigot. Someone hiring a less qualified candidate because the other had long hair would. (assuming there's no policies agaisnt long hair). I don't have time to do it now, but if I remember tomorrow I'll go into a lot greater detail about the professionalism side. Until then | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 88 | |
| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/4/2009 11:14:02 PM | You seem to fail to realize that our society has put different social standards on males and females.
You seem to fail to recognize that an argumentum ad populum is a fallacy.
Because of this people who go against the norm for their area, race, religion, etc are going to be viewed differently.
Of course they are, how this plays out decides whether the "view" is the result of a reasoned conclusion or a prejudice based in ignorance.
That doesn't make the person who choses to go outside of the social norm wrong and it doesn't the other person a bigot.
It all comes down to reasoning, this decides whether the judgement is one of ignorance or critical thinking.
You can cherry-pick definitions of "bigot" all you want, in truth, the etymology of the word corresponds to an intolerance for a ethnicity that had a predilection for moustaches.
Hair is one of the most important ways humans have of both presenting themselves and judging one another socially, being one of the parts of their body which is easiest to manipulate. Throughout many cultures, hair is seen as representing sexual control over oneself—those having long hair having less control than those having shorter or no hair. Also, having short, cut hair, is often viewed as being under society's control, while having long hair signifies being outside of the systems of society
~ Synnott, Anthony. "Shame and Glory: A Sociology of Hair." The British Journal of Sociology 1987-09 38.3 pgs. 381-413
Ahhh... I can see wanting to be controlled, some under the bondage of totalitarian governance or theocracies like the Taliban .
To each his own, ...I prefer the motivation of self-actualization and independence of "being" over being subservience to any societal fallacy.
You can have your bondage, I refuse it.
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/5/2009 11:24:35 AM | ^ How can you argue that our society has put different standards on males and females. If it is a fallacious arguement than I'd like you to show why.
Views aren't just black and white like you are trying to say they are. Just because someone doesn't care for something, or prefer one thing over another doesn't mean that they are prejudice agaisn't it.
How is pulling a definition right out of the dictionary cherry picking? Using a biased sorce for "facts" is cherry picking. Hair length and being in bondage don't go together. As far as me personally I prefer my hair short for a variety of reasons and don't really fit into social "norms" in multiple areas. It has nothing to do with me feeling like I need to. | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/5/2009 11:27:55 AM | [quoe]
We are all equal, the fact that this is even a topic shows me ther're still alot of confused people out there!!!
Setting up the question like this automatically skews the discussion, in a way. Of course no one is going to say that another person "should be discriminated against." | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/5/2009 11:42:02 AM | One of my sons looks like Jesus and the other has the typical boy cut style. The one that looks like Jesus, people often back up and judge that he is big foot or some type of neanderthal. The one with the boy cut has never had problems meeting and greeting people. Actually their occupations even reflect this. My long hair unloads trucks. My short hair is a host/cashier i.e. behind the scenes and in front of them.
Both of my sons are equally intelligent, attractive, nice, etc. I am and always will be of the opinion that what hair style you think looks good on you is what is important. Now my ex's hair looks like crap, long stringing, thinning white hair and an untrimmed mustache...yuck! You do have to have some reality about your appearance, put on your bifocals when you look in the mirror.
In the real world, people are judged by their hair. The Beetles got the bad boy rap because of their, now what would be considered short, hair.
People also discriminate against those with facial hair. My grandfather wouldn't higher anyone with a beard or mustache. He would not sell to those with long hair or facial hair. He got away with it.
On the flip side, some women are accused of looking like lesbians when they get their hair cut really short/or wear it short.
I don't think prejudices are ever going to change. We add to them, we find new things to be prejudice about. | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/5/2009 12:11:18 PM | Morally and ethically, I don't believe that men should be discriminated against because of long hair. For that matter, I don't think anyone should be discriminated against for choices of appearance.
However, I also don't believe those choices should be legally protected. Long-haired men should not be a protected class (re: discrimination.) | |
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| Should men be discriminated against because of long hair?
Posted: 9/5/2009 6:27:09 PM | | I agree that men with long hair should not be discriminated against. However I am not attracted to men with long hair because to me personally it looks feminine and doesn't appeal. So each to his own. | |
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