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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/7/2007 4:41:35 PM | My not-so-sweet and not-so-gentle spirit Janet,
I am 53 and, like many people here, I have had plenty of relationships and have observed a multitude more. So yes, the negative aspects I pointed out are the ones I have observed in my relationships and others - and I know I want to avoid them like I would avoid a hornet's nest.
I'm not trying to be mean or spiteful but just reading your posts, one cannot help but get idea you have a mean streak. God help any man who engages you in a relationship.
So I now need to add to my profile: "...and no women who are mean and full of venom...."
Low and sleazy | |
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CTR916
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Joined: 11/27/2006
Msg: 102 | |
| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/7/2007 6:46:37 PM | janet4now -
Thats been proven throughout history. ...Better to have some form of control over the activities than to let them run wild.
This is why it is ILLEGAL.
They get caught, put in jail and THEN can get all the free sex they want...
say hello to Bubba for us.
I cannot agree with your conclusion. Prohibition was the wrong answer. Pushing social transactions into the black market, means having less state control over them. A state can only regulate commerce (i.e between consenting adults) if it is legal. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/7/2007 7:20:20 PM | ^^^
WOW, that is an incredibly powerful perspective, CTR916!
It does you credit, for I agree with the merit you demonstrate.
Sad, that it must be applicable to such a dangerous issue.
It makes sense though.
If prostitution were legal, the doors would be open for state-regulated commerce.
However, there is also the looming fact that state regulation of commerce has gone down in America, in favor of a "yes or no, all or nothing" policy on commercial law.
I hope I live to see responsibility find a foothold in government, otherwise political debate may have been a futility all my life, in a way.
~ David | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/7/2007 11:45:52 PM | YES, The oldest profession in the world.
It's about taxes. There are many in the business and they pay taxes and are left alone. If that's what someone wants to do with their life, let them. In fact it has saved some marriages. It takes a certain kind of personality.....detached. Woman who think more like men!  | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/7/2007 11:49:32 PM | " In fact it has saved some marriages "
Yes, one for every twenty or so that it's ruined... | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/9/2007 5:39:43 PM | guardian of Gaea ~
you are absolutely right. it has ruined far more marriages then it has ever saved. all it does is destroy relationships. it's cheating, plain and simple, and cheating in the most vile disgusting way possible.
how do you think some poor woman feels when her hubbby comes back from thailand with an std? hmmmmm?
look, prostitution is sex by coercion. money is the coercive factor. the nuimber of women that are traffikked into the international sex trade is growing. also, the places where prostitution IS legal? well, those places are MAGNETS for women who have been forced into prostitution. it is estimated that as many as 250,00 women and children are smuggled across our southern borders into the country and into the sex trade against thier will!
if you can find it, go check out a little investigative report called, "angles on main st." it will break your heart. there is a photo of a young girl standing on a sidewalk. the picture is taken from an upper window. on the periphery she is surrounded by a circle of men. all just drooling like animals. it is about one of the sickest things i have ever seen. that little teenage girl was someone's daughter, someone's sister...
this is disgusting. anyone who thinks that this has anything to do with being "victorian," or "uptight" is an A#%%^&hole. plain and simple.
lar | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/10/2007 10:52:22 PM |
Didn't they used to have legal prostitution in Nevada? Or do they still?
They always have, and always will. Didnt you ever see that show "Cathouse" they had on HBO? Totally disgusting, and Im not just talking about the chicks who work there. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/10/2007 11:24:51 PM |
However, there is also the looming fact that state regulation of commerce has gone down in America, in favor of a "yes or no, all or nothing" policy on commercial law.
I hope I live to see responsibility find a foothold in government, otherwise political debate may have been a futility all my life, in a way.
David,
The fact that we aren't managing our government all that well at the moment doesn't mean we should turn over control of activities we really ought to regulate to the black market. If you want to inject your perspective into government, why don't you hook up with a like-minded group and run for school board!
All the best,
Robert | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/10/2007 11:33:28 PM | Larissa,
There's a difference between consenting adults engaging in transactions and predators attacking teenage girls. If those girls actually got the money I might agree with you that money is the coercive factor. However, forced prostitution is an absolute crime of the vilest sort, and it's the _force_ that is coercive, not the money.
No one who's arguing for legal prostitution is arguing for legalized predation.
The argument is not about whether we should or should not protect those girls. Of course we should!!!!!!!
The argument is about the best way to go about it. Legalization and regulation is one strategy. Prohibition is another. The question is about which method is more effective in keeping _everyone,_ especially those engaged in the trade as service providers, safe.
Legalization without regulation is the worst of all possible approaches.
All the best,
Robert | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/10/2007 11:39:04 PM | Larissa,
One other thing. If the trade were regulated and the sex workers had the legally enforced right to insist that all clients wear condoms, a wife with a wayward husband would be far less likely to pick up an STD. As long as it's illegal, we're forcing that wife to rely on the good graces of some pimp to keep her safe.
All the best,
Robert | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/11/2007 5:27:37 PM | mr phoenix,
i have done a lot of research on the topic of traffcking. if you want to read up on some of this stuff check out the dept of justice report that was done a few years back. that one was most damning, although i have found other studies that support the conclusion as well. you may want to do some research on the topic of sexual addiction as well, since so many that "work" in the "adult" entertainment "industry" are afflicted with such an addiction. these are not healthy people.
anyway, it has been found that the places that have legalised prostitution are magnets for the trffiking of women, often not just teens, but grown women. it is estimated that as many as 40% of the women in amsterdam have been coerced or "traffked" into prostitution.
money IS the coercive factor. it is all for the m-o-n-e-y. and any man that would strike up such a "deal," has a truly dark soul.
lar | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/14/2007 8:34:25 AM | valicious~
that is soooo very true. what is the difference between a woman who simply marries a guy for his money and a 'ho? to me, not a thing.
however, what about the men? you know, the men who think that everyone and everything has a price tag, and that they are immuned from having to treat others with respect or even just basic common decency simply bacause they have money...
money IS the coercive factor in such a "transaction." as adam smith once said, "...the offering of a shilling, which to us appears to have so plain and simple a meaning, is in reality offering an argument to persuade one to do so and so as it is for his interest..."
lar | |
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rowlie
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Joined: 5/18/2006
Msg: 115 | |
| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/14/2007 11:08:58 AM |
sure. I mean, who does it really harm?
It harms ONE vulnerable person.
It harms the ONLY person who has been forced into it.
It harms the ONE person who is an illegal immigrant exported for the purpose and imprisoned by it.
It harms the only child prostitute.
It isn't the number that is important it's the fact it harms someone at all.
The recent murders of drug addict prostitutes in Ipswich last month is harm.
So let me ask a question. Who does it NOT harm?
The day the human race begins to universally allow this, is the day the human race reaches the gutter. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/14/2007 12:21:32 PM | That person doing prostitution is someone,s daughter or mother. some one cares for them and does not want them to do this and many get abused. Its not a good thing using women for selfish relief.
We all have to face God someday on the day of judgement. While people may say it is okay and look down on them they have to consider their own sins. | |
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rowlie
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Joined: 5/18/2006
Msg: 117 | |
| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/14/2007 3:14:07 PM | | Here is a link, http://www.interpol.int/Public/THB/Women/Default.asp and if you look there you will find more on the subject of sexual trafficking and enforced prostitution.And there are people who would make all this legal? Old habits die hard, and the racketeers would not shut up shop and depart following such a move. Licensing? Useless- you then have license evasion- which you make illegal? How are you going to tax it? What might be the expenses- Extortion? Drug payments? Pimps expenses? | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/15/2007 6:33:34 PM | To Mominatrix:
First of all I apologize for anything I said that was a personal hit, don't usually do that.
1. Never needed to use the services of a Brothel. It was my German Girlfriend that showed them to me as she was showing me the country.
2. I stand corrected as I called my ex in Germany and asked her about the subject. She said that back in the 90's it was legal by what we would call counties or city districts. She said that the national legalzation has caused allot of conterversy there. She said it is mainly an age argument more than it is a moral argument.
3.Mominatrix quote: "I have purposefully argued both sides in this thread."
Mom read all your post and not really seeing this. I see you siding on the Christin right and that is you perogative, but not everyone believes that way.
4. I could care less if it is leagalized or not. Just having a, I guess what has turned into a somewhat heated discusion.
I still won't argue the use of tampons with a woman. For those of you who don't get this statement, most women probably wouldn't try to tell you which jock strap is best. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/15/2007 9:14:16 PM |
My not-so-sweet and not-so-gentle spirit Janet,
...God help any man who engages you in a relationship.
"slowneasy", it is interesting at what point you decide religion is needed. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/15/2007 11:11:50 PM |
I still won't argue the use of tampons with a woman. For those of you who don't get this statement, most women probably wouldn't try to tell you which jock strap is best.
Once agian I have to say that this is very entertaining. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal?
Posted: 1/15/2007 11:25:16 PM | I'm not taking a side on this, just doing a simple reality check for some of you guys who seem to be missing the focus of this thread:
1. For those of you arguing that prostitution ruins relationships, or its cheating, etc. etc. etc. What does that have to do with legality? Alcohol ruins more families, I'd wager, than prostitution ever has, yet it is legal. So many things that can "ruin relationships" or "families" are legal... to name a few: gambling, various obsessive hobbies, friends, television, pornography. Should something really be illegal based only on your personal opinion of it? Shouldn't people be able to live their lives as they see fit as long as they don't cause unwanted physical harm to others?
And, again, so what if it ruins relationships... isn't that *technically* a good thing? If you are dating someone, and prostitution is legal, and your spouse uses a prostitute... wouldn't it be good to know that is how they are? You have to remember... prostitution doesn't cause people to change their morals/beliefs/ways... it just reveals them. So if you are against the people who are into prostitution, legalizing it will let you point them out easier.
2. For those of you arguing that there would be an increase in STDs... wrong again. Just like with legalization of drugs... when you make something into a commercial industry, then the product--whether it is sex, drugs, or candy--raises in quality. Legalization of prostitution would allow there to be a "standardization" and regulation of the industry (just like there is at places already offering sex for money, and just like the porn industry). Mandatory disease screenings for prostitutes, hell... even "prostitute" diplomas or documentation so you can check out a girls history... legalization means regulation.
3. For those of you who are pointing out all the statistics about how many immigrants are forced into the sex-trade, or how many pimps there are, or how much violence there is because of prostitution... this is *because* prostitution is illegal. Pimps exist for a type of protection, which is needed because the law will not protect the women. Legalize prostitution, and you make Pimps useless. Why would a prostitute use a pimp for protection when she could report whatever happened to her to a cop? Or even hire a security firm? And for the sex trade... this exists because prices make it worth it. Legalization puts it into the arena of supply and demand, which makes the risk and cost of trafficking not as pleasing. Plus, regulation kicks in and licensed-prostitutes start to openly advertise and work, which causes a direct hit to illegal prostitution.
I'm not saying illegal prostitution will be destroyed... but it will not stand a chance against legalized prostitution. I have no need or want for a prostitute, but if my choice was $300 for a woman with no documentation and no history of health, and if i got caught I face jail time.... or a choice of a woman for $300 (or less due to competition), who was documented, had a documented health-check history, and I could have sex with her without fear of legal issues... why in the hell would I go with the one that has more risk? Why would most people?
Again, I'm too tired to enter my opinion for or against this issue, but if you are going to make your decision... then stick to reality please.
And for a special comment to you, Larissan04... all those things you listed... the horrible things about the kids, and the smuggling of people, etc. etc. Those things exist *because* prostitution is illegal.
It's literally no different than the drug laws we have now.
Legalization crushes the "underground" and "black market". It creates a safe and profitable way for people to continue their business, and it gives no reason for undergrounds to exist.
If you don't believe me, go try to find an underground speak-easy from the prohibition era. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/16/2007 1:38:55 AM |
money IS the coercive factor in such a "transaction." as adam smith once said, "...the offering of a shilling, which to us appears to have so plain and simple a meaning, is in reality offering an argument to persuade one to do so and so as it is for his interest..."
Lar,
I've done my homework around the politics, the criminology, and the issue of sexual addiction. I totally agree with you that people who engage in the trade tend to be
emotionally healthy. I could say the same thing about most people who frequent bars.
I could also say that no one ever killed a pedestrian driving home under the influence of oxytocin.
We might just have to agree to disagree on the method, even though we agree on the outcome. No one should ever be coerced into performing sexual services. That's rape no matter how you look at it, and it is always a crime.
Still, if there's a strong correlation between legalized prostitution and trafficking that would be pretty damning. I'll have to think that one over. No sense jeopardizing people for the sake of a theory.
I still can't agree with you that money equates to coercion. If I can walk away from the offer without getting beat up, nobody is coercing me? Money is an _inducement._ That's different.
I appreciate your stand.
By the way, there several self-help groups around for those who want to free themselves of such a costly and dangerous preoccupation with sex. Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous is one. There are others as well.
All the best,
Robert | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:04:48 PM | Just another 2 cents of mine...
Money for Sex is no more "coercion" than Money for Picking up Dog Crap.
Are there prostitutes that are forced into their job? Yes... but once again, this is due to the underground which exists because its already illegal.
Are there prostitutes (or even most of them) that hate their job? Yes... but so do many other people. Hating your job is the American way.
If the idea of selling your body for money is so atrocious, then why hasn't society pointed its guns at people who partake in drug experiment programs?
The simple and basic fact remains that we live in a capitalist society where people eat and people starve, people have homes and people are homeless, people live and people die.
Some people choose to survive by any means, which may be prostitution (hey... it's good money because we have made it good money by making it illegal.)
But sometimes its not even about economic status... what if you like sex? Why is it so absurd to "do what you do best and get paid for it"?
There is only a moral objective if you are against prostitution but use it... otherwise, why not let people enjoy their lives without harming others, and hope that in turn they will allow you to live your life as you see fit?
But yeah, stop feeling sorry for the prostitutes while contending it should be illegal. The only way to help prostitutes is to legalize prostitution... just being against it hasn't helped anything for the past hundreds of years, so its ridiculous to think we are on the right track. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:54:46 PM | But yeah, stop feeling sorry for the prostitutes while contending it should be illegal. The only way to help prostitutes is to legalize prostitution... just being against it hasn't helped anything for the past hundreds of years, so its ridiculous to think we are on the right track
Artredefined,
For this topic, you should sign your name Logic Refined. That is, I agree with you 100%. | |
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| Should prostitution be legal? End
Posted: 1/16/2007 9:22:37 PM | Logic refined it is ;)
i rarely find people who agree with me, so I'm quite happy =P
dontread.com for more of my insanity =\ lol. | |
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