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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 8:43:10 AM |
Here in Canada, we have a public education system: "public", meaning you and me Mr and Mrs taxpayer are paying for it, and our children are attending it. We have to pay for it, we don't have a choice in the matter, so what gives the government or the schoolboards the right to tell our children what they can or can't wear?
JMO....unless PUBLIC schools are enforcing uniform dress codes, then there still is the right to freedom of expression. I've never had an issue with what my kids wear to school, but they also dont go to school in fishnet stockings and make-up plastered all over their face.
Of course when the kids are at school, it might be a different story. The girls might meet up with their friends and put on some xtra make-up. Or change into that suggestive little mini-skirt they snuck into their back-pack before they left. That's where the school needs to step in and say something.
The whole point of school is to learn and if the kids want to dress like gansta's and hoochie mama's then there is always the weekend if their parents so wish. I dont think anyone is trying to take expression away from kids, but they are children and alot of them dont realize what their appearance is saying.
Like Hockey said, uniforms sound like a good idea. It will save me a small fortune from LaSenza, LuLu-lemon, the Garage..and on and on
JMHO
MAPT | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 8:56:13 AM | To answer your question...yes WE should worry about how other parents teach THEIR children, which is exactly why I have had many conversations on the subject.
One that sticks out in my mind was with a neighbor regarding respect. Respect for her daughter's teacher. Allowing a ten year old to tell a teacher she doesn't like a subject(french)because it's dumb and she's not going to bother doing the work, to me is ridiculous. Her defence was that she has taught her children to speak their minds at all times. What a load of bunk! I explained to her that all she's done is set her child up for a difficult time. Teaching them to speak their minds is one thing, but teaching them complete disrespect is another. There are appropriate times to speak your mind and times to bite your tongue.
I asked what is going to happen when she hits grade 11 or 12 and decides the courses aren't worth the time or effort? Does she really think the teachers are going to give her the grades she needs to get into the post education facility she aspires to? No, of course not.
Then in college or university, will the instructors care if she doesn't like the subject? Again, no. I can't think of one instructor at that level who will coddle that type of behavior.
Once out in the real world, how many employers will tolerate a junior employee telling them they don't like the work and are not going to bother doing it? Hmm...can you say...you're fired?!
Ok, no more ranting on this....I'm done for the moment.
Gawd I need some coffee before my brain turns inside out. | |
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WWCND
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Joined: 3/9/2006
Msg: 28 | |
| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 9:01:02 AM | | I wish my daughter had to wear a uniform. Her school does have a dress code. The girls can't dress skanky.. no short shorts, short skirts, tank tops, midriff baring shirts... etc etc.. the guys also have a dress code, no underwear showing(that goes for both sexes) and things like that. I dont have a problem with it. I think as a parent you should be teaching your kids to dress properly anyway | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 9:19:19 AM | You can teach ( encourage/redirect) them all you want but once they are out of sight they'll do what they want or feel is necessary to fit in (yes I KNOW there are some kids that are strong willed enough not to care what others think)
This whole dress issue has nothing to do with intelligence either.... My son is a principals' list student ( always has been) and even his friends bug him to " get thee to a barber!" hahaha as for not seeing underwear,... for the guys that's easy,.. they pull their pants down so low they can't walk and then wear a huge shirt over top to fill in the gap so to speak. UGH .
Am I the only one who addressed the possible long lasting effects physically to their bodies of some of their "fashion-wear" ???
see MSG 8.
For a fact~~> many of these styles are actually causing physical impairments and structural damage to these children and teens.
Knee and hip troubles, ankle/foot and back aches, sciatica, worsening scoliosis, neck and head aches, posture from wearing Heely's, and on and on. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 9:56:39 AM | You can teach ( encourage/redirect) them all you want but once they are out of sight they'll do what they want or feel is necessary to fit in
Then,,, they have'nt LEARNT yet. Sometimes it takes them to make the mistake first(after our teaching), then they receive the consequences for their mistake,,,,then HOPEFULLY they will learn. It is a process,,,,and it hardly ever is easy. Unless of course you want to "babysit" your children until,,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,forever. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 3:34:34 PM |
Then,,, they have'nt LEARNT yet.
precisely my point..... my son,14 ( as an example again) is brilliant, clean, well mannered and a hard worker at his job ( three paper routes 200+ papers) polite and well spoken, but is judged by the fact that he chooses to wear his hair long, even though it's usually tidy, and his pants disgustingly low,...... will have to learn that he won't get another job other than the dreaded paper route unless he pulls up his britches so to speak and lops off his locks! We'll see what happens.. I think we may be on the verge of a change soon.
~ mum crosses her fingers~  | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 4:29:34 PM | I have four sons all under the age of 10 and if I had the choice I would have them attend a school that enforced school uniforms. They are not picked on for what they wear, and they are not overly popular for the choices they make in school for clothing but the fact that they start the day off stressing over what they "hafta wear" is enuf to tell me as a parent that kids spend too much time stressing over non education matter in the institution of learning that it does affect their school day.
Take the examples of how some young girls are dressing and then look into why they are dressing that way. Surely their parents are not encouraging them to dress like Britney Spears out for a night on the town with Paris but they see it on tv and they know it gets boys attention. Now they want to get the boys attention in the one place they see a lot of them. School!
It does not take a scientist to figure out that pop culture is a direct reason for how kids dress and what they listen to (and before anyone says "there ya go shifting the blame for poor parenting" think again) plenty of kids today are growing up in the "childrens power era" where they learn that mommy and daddy cannot hit them for doing bad stuff like granparents did when their moms and dads were young. What did todays parents learn from this?, they learned that they do not have a clue how to discipline kids today under the microscope of child protection laws and a very watchfull public that over reacts to even the slightest hint of what has become a very loosely used term"child abuse".
So now you have kids growing up without boundaries their parents had and parents without new usefull ideas how to discipline their kids having the fear that doing anything might get them in trouble (I know this, my ex kept thinking if she raised her voice to the kids in the shopping store others might think she is a bad mother) and that is just one example.
Now how do you tell parents of a majority of todays teens that they have to teach their kids what to wear appropriately when they don't listen in the first place?
Schools should be firmer and impliment uniforms for all public schools starting from K right through to Gr.12.
Individuality is not lost when kids don't get to wear fashion to school.
So my challenge to the OP is please explain to the rest of us parents the pro's to kids being allowed to dress the way they are now as opposed to all of the points that have been brought up in this thread by those of us (the majority) who feel that dress codes and uniforms are a step in the right direction. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 4:37:24 PM | ^^^ Great post Driver73 and I agree whole heartedly with all that you have said including how little power we do have as parents this day in age (although I would just simply refuse to purchase the items to begin with). My sister lived with me as a teen and every time I would ground her or not allow her to do something she would report me and knew that even though it was bogus it would still mean that a social worker would contact me therefore punishing me for her not getting her way. Fun days I tell ya. All I can say is I am glad that I don't have girls (gawd forbid there were mini me's running around haha)
One fairy is all this world can handle lol.
PS. welcome back to the forums | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 4:43:08 PM |
So my challenge to the OP is please explain to the rest of us parents the pro's to kids being allowed to dress the way they are now as opposed to all of the points that have been brought up in this thread by those of us (the majority) who feel that dress codes and uniforms are a step in the right direction
Actually Driver,,,,we have to first realize dress codes and uniforms are TWO different methods of trying to control on how children dress for school. Some here agree that the dress code is the way to go,,,others want a uniform for their kids.
Another thing a lot of people forget is that by the time children have reached highschool age they are basicall already moulded,know their path(basically,,,with the odd teenage mistake getting in the way), have a belief in what and wrong is,etc. Our toughest times parenting is done from birth to about 6-7 years old. Sure there are teenage problems, but most kids have their basic beliefs and morals already instilled in them by highschool.
Oh,,, I had no problem parenting under the so-called miscroscope of child protection. Of course the daughter I got to raise had a lot to do with it, plus my parent's help waaaayyyyyyy back when they were doing the parenting. My daughter did once threaten me with phoning child maintenance when I was disciplining once. I handed her the phone with their number. It was never brought up again. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 4:46:46 PM |
whole heartedly with all that you have said including how little power we do have as parents this day in age
Ummmmm, we ARE the parents. You don't have the "power" as parents because you have decided not to take it. As comedian Bill Cosby once said to his kids,,,,"I brought you into this world,,,and I WILL take you out,,,,if I have to." | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 4:47:28 PM | | ^^^ Ha ha Walts my youngest son threatend the same I did the same thing with you adding that I could use the break anyways. I am pretty lucky with my kids though as there heads are on pretty straight and although they are developed well beyond their years as far as life skills go socially they aren't asking to do the things that many of their peers are doing. I have worked hard on maintaining that childhood innocence which includes limiting TV and they play almost no vid games and encourage them to play outside as much as possible. Of course that is easier done in a small town like where I am at. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 12/31/2006 5:50:48 PM |
So my challenge to the OP is please explain to the rest of us parents the pro's to kids being allowed to dress the way they are now as opposed to all of the points that have been brought up in this thread by those of us (the majority) who feel that dress codes and uniforms are a step in the right direction.
So here are the pro's
[1] To preserve freedom of expression in Canada.
[2] To work towards eliminating dress codes that are established for purely cosmetic reasons elsewhere in Canada (IE workplaces).
[3] So that once every one becomes accustomed to seeing people dressed in different ways they will be less judgemental of them for it. (I hate it when I hear he/ she is a [ ], look at the way he/she dresses.)
[4] (In the case of uniforms) So that kids learn that not every one can afford designer clothes, and that's just the way things work in our monetary society.
[5] Perhaps by learning the above mentioned reason they will also become less likely to be judgemental of others for it.
[6] To teach kids the importance of concentrating or their school work without allowing themselves to become distracted.
[7] To teach kids how to be respectful of the opposite gender despite what he/she wears. (IE teenage boys and scantily clad girls.) | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 3:08:43 AM | [1]Freedom of expression in Canada. Yes that is good but should CHILDREN also be taught there is a time and place for this or is it suitable for a child to wear a shirt with offensive language on it or a girl to wear a top that barely covers her nipples? Where do you draw the line? It is one thing to say sure they should have choices of what to wear but there are cases where some parents are not good parents at all and would let their kids pick or do what they will. Dress codes and Uniforms take the equasion of delinquency away from one aspect of schooling and allow kids more energy to concentrate on what is important while in school. LEARNING.
[2]Dress codes in the work place are put in place for a reason. Would you do your banking where the tellers wear offensive shirts or dress like they just came out of a rave?, professionalism in the workplace is a reality and dressing the part shows not only the customers (who by the way actually are the reason a company is in buisness) but shows the employer that the person working there is capable of understanding what is appropriate and what better place to learn what dressing appropriately than having to dress appropriately for school.
[3]Umm I am not quite sure where you went with this one but in case you have not noticed everyone (except for the double mint twins) is dressed differently in the general public unless they are in the army which again I guess leads to professionalism. Kids will say things out of spite towards other kids they feel are a threat to their selves whether its their popularity or they think they are different. Kids pick on other kids that are different. Fact of life. I am not saying kids will stop picking on other kids if there are dress codes or uniforms but they will not be so distracted by what someone is wearing (which should not matter) but they can focus better on education.
[4]Kids will pick on kids as I said above for many reasons, financial status is one reason and it is a reality however if a child is wearing a school uniform it takes that element out of the school atmosphere where it does not belong. You sir have a very negative image of what schools should be. I get the feeling you think it is ok for kids to bully and pick on kids for what they wear or the differences they may have. Schools should be free of harrassment and bullying because each child (yours , mine and whoever elses) going to public school should be given the exact same opportunity to excell beyond what you or I have been able to provide for them as they grow up.
[5] Kids are going to be mean in schools unless parents do something, government agencies have limited certain avenues for parents in fact and even scared some parents into buckling under to their kids for fear of "doing something wrong" while disciplining their children. Kids will not become less likely to be mean to others while growing up unless they learn the hard way how it can really hurt someone and that may come as a hard lesson to a child. Hello has anyone ever heard of a school called Columbine? Few kids I heard of went there,.... never graduated either.
[6] How does allowing kids to wear whatever they want to school allow them and other kids in the class teach them the importance of concentrating on their schoolwork? "Little Johnny is sitting at his desk and see's Suzy wearing a super high cut mini skirt with a tank top and no bra, he only wants to see what color panties she is wearing and she knows the boys are looking at her and guess what the class is almost over and the teacher says OK kids test is over hand in your papers. Well now most of the boys near Suzy were wandering their minds on something else and Suzy was too busy trying to see who was checking her out." Gee now this sounds familiar now doesn't it?! Get real dude.
[7] Do I need to repeat what i just typed above?, I mean come on.... Girls and boys will go to extremes given the opportunity to show off their goods once they develop, they want to find out what this new found attention is they are getting and dressing up a bit seems to work better. Respectfullness for gender comes from parents teaching values but the other end of that comes from proper attire. You attract the attention you dress for. Dress like a ho and you get johns lookin for a cheap lay!Simply put no sugar coating on that.
If you say it is ok for kids to dress any way they wish for individuality reasons then you open the doors to saying why not let kids learn what they feel is important to them because they should not be judged for what they know or why even force them to go to school since they might want to do something else. There are freedoms in life we all experience but institutions of learning for young minds should be a positive place for them all to learn how to become smart young adults that know the difference between dressing up for a night out, dressing up for a party and dressing up for work. We have different types of clothes and styles for a reason and professionalism is only one of them. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 1:16:05 PM | So as I see it, what it comes down to is that my children loose one of thier basic human rights because the majority of the population disagrees with me.
Thirty years ago the tie was mandatory in many workplaces where it no longer is now, and once the pressent young generation grows up and makes more changes we will get rid of dress codes in schools. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 2:43:26 PM | schools that have dress codes usually have less discipline problems with their students. not only is no one getting picked on for not wearing the cool brand of the day, but uniforms promote a team attitude and sense of unity. there is an elementary school here in kelowna that had a terrible rep for both behaviour and grades. they got a new prinicipal and she instituted a uniform policy and within one year grades rose and behaviour issues dropped drastically.
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 3:35:36 PM | While I am not in favour of uniforms for public schools, I do think there should be a dress code of some sort.
Some of the things girls are wearing these days are going to injure the boys. Heck, some of the outfits girls are wearing, I guarantee I would have walked into walls as a teenager as I would have been checking them out. LOL
Seriously though, at this point in my kids life (Boys 11 and 7), I buy the clothes so I buy what I think is appropriate. No baggie jeans, crap like that. I buy alot of it at SallyAnn or Value Village. You can get good clothes there if you are willing to look a bit for them. Name brands and 1/3 the cost, gotta like it. Tshirts dont have explicit logos or anything like that. Might have something funny on it or more likely a snowboarder.
Hopefully the boys mother and I have taught the kids well enough that when they are choosing their own clothes and buying them, that they will buy stuff that is appropriate. If not, well I will cross that bridge when I have to.
Where do we cross the line to when the school can send a kid home because of what he/she is wearing? Would wearing a swastika be bad enough? I saw a picture of three very tasteless college kids at Halloween dressed up as the NY twin towers and an airplane heading into it.
Remember, what is tasteless to you, might be perfectly fine with me. Our democratic government (hence the school board under its control) should not have a huge say in what a kid wears to school, unless it is a safety issue. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 5:11:28 PM | | I think the school board should make available more public schools that have manditory uniforms while leaving some schools as they are to see what the grades difference is after a 4 year trial period. If after 4 years there is no significant improvement in grades at the schools with uniforms then I will believe that what kids wear has no direct impact on their learning environment. However I am damned positive that the contrary to what the majority believe here will be proven false. Hell I think even after the first two years there will be significant improvement in grades and discipline in schools. I for one would bring my kids to a public school with uniforms because I want them to have every advantage possible made available to them. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 7:52:34 PM | Can I conclude now that some here are blaming Columbine, learning(or the ability to learn),lack of discipline and other things on the clothes that children are wearing to school???? I suggest we are now really searching for some reasons for someone else to do our jobs as parents.
If children do not have enough self respect to wear what we term as "proper" clothes at home,malls, parties or whatever,,,,surely you don't believe that making them wear a uniform at a school for 6 hours a day will change that. If children are going to "bully" or "pick on" someone, they will do it because of colour of skin, eye glasses, length/colour of hair along with many other reasons,,,INCLUDING clothes. Telling children to wear an uniform will NOT change those traits.
<div class="quote">they got a new prinicipal and she instituted a uniform policy and within one year grades rose and behaviour issues dropped drastically.
I don't know what school that is,,,but I do believe that a principal can not institute that policy on their own,,, unless it was a "dress code" that she/he made sure was properly regulated and backed up by the PARENTS. And I also suggest that grades rose because of how this "new" principal ran the school,teachers AND students,,,not what just what the students were wearing.
I'm also getting pretty tired of hearing some people's reasoning on how they parent because they say their hands are "tied". As parents, it is OUR responsibility(not a school board or any other governing body) to teach OUR children about self respect,respect for others and their property, etc etc.
Just like "clothes" don't make the person,,,an uniform will not make a good student. If it was only that EASY. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 1/4/2007 7:57:27 PM | If it was only that EASY.
and THAT my friends sums it all up in a nice neat package covering all sides.
Ah yes it only it were THAT easy. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 9/3/2008 6:52:32 PM | | so the kids got their school paper work today,and what do you know the stupid dress code crap law was with it again .Have you ever noticed that the people most in favor of school dress codes are middle aged woman. Why do you think that is????????I can take a pretty good guess it's called jealousy. | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:30:01 PM | ^ Don't like it - leave. Simple as that. Pull your kids out and home school them. And JEALOUSY? Really - You're just grasping at straws here now, man. Ever think that just because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you doesn't mean they're not looking out for the interest of the kids? Yea - it's all about middle aged women, in the sexual PRIME of their life, being JEALOUS of pimply faced, overly-dramatic, self-centered teenyboppers. Yea, that MUST be it. Because EVERY woman past the age of 20 desperately wants to be back in high school dealing with all the shit that goes on there. If you seriously believe that, I have a bridge to sell.
I for one would have LOVED school uniforms; hell - DRESS CODES didn't come around until I hit grade 12! There was one time in Bio 11 that this girl in front of me had these pants on so low her ass crack was literally hanging out for all to see. That's incredibly distracting - even for a fellow girl. And it wasn't that she was just sitting down - no, that's how they were ALL the time.
We b*tch and b*tch about kids growing up too fast, being exposed to too much sexual stimuli too early but think there's nothing wrong with your precious little 12 year old angel walking around in pants that say "cum guzzler" on the ass. It's "freedom of expression"! Oh NOOOO! Their life will be absolutely RUINED if they're not allowed to wear skirts that should truly be belts.
Would you be so enthusiastic to allow "freedom of expression" if a kid walked in to school wearing a shirt that depicted murdering - hell I don't know - middle eastern people? Or walking around with a shirt with the letters 'F*CK' emblazened over that? Is that conducive to a learning environment, or a kid asking for attention?
Dress codes, at the minimum, are a good thing (a la Martha Stewar). Uniforms are even better. None of this b.s. that so-and-so's skirt is soooo short, I wish I had legs like that - or so-and-so's boyfriend looks so dreamy in those CK jeans or whatever.
Seriously? You're not at school to impliment freedom of expression through your clothes. There's absolutely no reason kids should be dressing the way they are these days; looking like prepubescent hookers and wannabe pimps.
I loved what my yearbook teacher told one kid: "You'd like to get with a college chick eh?" Kid: "Well ya!", Teacher: "Do you really think she's going to want to get with you when your superman boxers are hanging out of the back of your pants?!"
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| School dress codes
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:33:26 PM | what gives the government or the schoolboards the right to tell our children what they can or can't wear?
As always, the Rights we bestow upon our Gov't reflect our Wishes ... at least that's the Way the Tune is supposed to go.
I have taught Overseas where Dress Codes are a Requirement and where they were not. I have seen plenty of ridiculous teasing of other Students because they/their Parents could not afford the Coin to buy them the latest Fashion Rages that are arbitrarily being held up by the biggest Style-peddling, Bubble-headed, School Fashion Queens. These often end up being Distractions and Put-Downs for some Students.
When Uniforms are mandated, it implies Studies are to be taken seriously. In these Spheres of Education, you are expected to Dress appropriately, no different than Corp. Board Members are required to attend wearing Suits.
Once School is out, by all Means let them dress up however they like when with their Friends. Go to a Judo Class without the proper Uniform, and in many Cases the awarded Belt Color, and you don't get to go onto the Mat. Its considered Disrespectful of the Art.
When Uniforms are insisted upon, the Bar on Standards are raised. I have nothing against voluntary Evening Driving Classes being run dressed however you want. Much Nonsense is swept from the Table when Public Students don't get the Opportunity to play Dress-Code One-Upmanship at the Expense of others.
What does "Expressing one's Individuality" have to do with having the same "acceptable" Footwear demanded by Fashion Trends ... just like everybody else? Is that not already a market-driven Fashion Trend to be ... "uniform"?
If they want to express their Inviduality, do it in the Essay for the Mid-term Semester.
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| School dress codes
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:34:18 PM | I'm curious OP, which codes specifically you object to...
Do you object to the dress codes that restrict the type of logo's etc or just the ones that restrict the amount of skin & underwear showing? | |
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| School dress codes
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:42:57 PM |
Do you object to the dress codes that restrict the type of logo's etc or just the ones that restrict the amount of skin & underwear showing? Actually I'm apposed to any sort of dress code in school.I think that a person in school should be allowed to wear the same clothing they can wear on the street.My kid has a right to an eduction,I paid for it with my tax dollars, and no one should have the right to send my kid home because of what he/she is wearing. | |
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