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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 2:15:54 AM | This is the first time I have posted to one of the forums, and statements like this tell me that my two cents worth is just as valuable as any other. Three years ago I was in France, and a guy in a cafe told me about the right wing group "Bloc Indentitaire". I had never heard anything about them before my trip. After hearing about them, I went to the library, and looked them up on the internet. Let me tell you, it's an eye opener. If you don't believe me, take a look at this page http://www.bloc-identitaire.com/propagande.htm When you get there, take a look at the blue and yellow poster. You don't need to speak French to understand what it says. Now, take a look at the logo on the bottom of the poster. Notice the pig?
Before I decided to make up my mind, I went to one of their soup kitchens in Paris. Before I went in, I put on a yamuka (I don't know how to spell it, but it's the beanie that Jewish men wear), anyway, I sat down at the table, and was ignored for over twenty minutes. Many others who came in after me were served food. When I did receive food, it was a bowl of soup that was full of pork, and I mean FULL!! Like, so much that there wasn't much soup, and very little anything else. Everyone else got normal bowls of soup, bread, cheese, even a glass of wine!
So, before you make comments about things that you know absolutely nothing about, perhaps you should educate yourself about the subject. Otherwise you might come off looking like a fool. This is no benevolent group, and the serving of pig is no accident, economic choice, or mistake. It is a deliberate shot at Jews and Muslims. The opposition isn't just polictical correctness either, it is opposition to obvious racism. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 2:21:54 AM | A simple google search will show you that muslims are allowed to eat pork in order to avoid starvation.
Correct:
"He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name has been invoked besides that of God. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For God is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful." Qur'an 2:173.
A similar search will show that Jews cannot eat pork:
Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud. Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6. Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden. The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications.
Hence, "soup nazis" | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 29 | |
| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 7:46:25 AM | The phobia about eating pork is a choice.
It's not a PHOBIA....many religious people don't consider this an option
and would opt to starve.
I'm frankly surprised that some people eat that slop by CHOICE! Disgusting
disgusting animals....the pigs I meant. Why not eat snakes and
lizards or canine?? It's just as revolting. And anyone serving this crap up
has some issues, imo, mental health ones; of all meats they could choose
from, this is it?? | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 9:38:40 AM | The first precept of Buddhism forbids the taking of life.
The Bodhisattva Precepts also explicitly forbid the eating of non-vegetarian food.
Mahakashyapa asked the Buddha, "Why is it that the Thus Come One does not allow eating meat?' The Buddha replied, "It is because meat-eating cuts off the seeds of great compassion." (Cherishing Life, II 5)
http://www.drba.org/dharma/veggie/animal_rights.asp
Reform Jews believe that Jewish customs and traditions should be adapted to the modern world. Some Reform rabbis drive on the Sabbath and some even eat pork, practices strictly forbidden under Orthodox Judaism.
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060622jews.shtml
We should have compassion towards all branches of all religions.
The question is religious tolerance. Do we place large religions in a place of power over smaller religions? This is really a discussion on the politics of religion. Do we allow the power of Orthodox Religious forces to dictate policy over Reform Religious groups?
Is Orthodox Conservative intolerant of Reform Liberal in the religious and political world?
This is more a political power issue than it is religious.
According to the United Nations, any single person can have a religion, no authority has to grant it. So if a single person walks up to that soup kitchen and says everything they serve is against her religion, she can, under the U.N. laws. But she doesn't have the legal right to be intolerant. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 10:05:57 AM | The French have way too much time crying "fowl" or "pig" on soup kitchen that is too feed the hungry.
If they don't want to eat there, then don't go, and if you're hungry, you will eat.
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 10:21:55 AM | I can see that they are racist, but you know... just let them serve the food. Someone who is hungry is being helped by this. Other groups can certainly serve Kosher foods for Jews.
I am not against Jews at all... Just against the idea of stopping a flow of food to homeless people. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 1:04:10 PM | | I agree with this guy^^^^^^^^I know it's hard to believe but I went 11 days without eating once I know hungry..I heard somewhere that it says in the bible not to eat pork some guy at the homeless shelter here told me that...Remember the movie "Alive" survivors from a plane crash stranded like the donner party but in the movie cutting slices from one anothers butt area to eat, FAK THAT! I'd be chomping on the arm I aien't eating no butt. If one is hungry enough they would eat just about anything. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 7:27:49 PM |
on soup kitchen that is too feed the hungry.
Nope, what you have is an extreme-right nationalist (I hope everybody knows what this means) political movement, politisizing poverty and homelessness in order to mariginalize several groups.
This is not new, and such grass-roots movements are what led to "the final solution" in Europe in the 30's - 40's.
If a organization representing itself as "helping the homeless" in the US put up barriers to exclude all but white Americans in order to spotlight an agenda of hate, ...would you fall for that too?
Do you not see that this is not about feeding those who are in desperate situations, but marginalizing those who are in an already marginalized position?
It's one thing to target ethnic groups up front and without guile, ...but to limit the targeting to those already afflicted by poverty and duress is worthy of nothing more than contempt.
Unless one agrees with the message I suppose.
Consider history, ....the death camps did not happen over night, ...it started small, and with much the same type of "us vs them" divisivness.
It's a shame some cannot read the websites because they are French, ....they don't even attempt to hide the hate. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 8:11:03 PM | It's not racist because a white woman could walk up and say it's discriminating against her religion, and ethnicity if she so chooses, according to the law of the United Nations. Racism implies active discrimination such as an ethnic or religious group are being told they cannot participate, they cannot eat pig.
For an ethnic or religious group A to say that another group B is not conforming to their group A's religious diet is in fact imposing racism upon that other group.
That brings us to what entails discrimination. Because somebody is intolerant of the pig eating religion, does that entitle them to intolerance. The soup kitchen is serving only pig. It is not denying pig food to anybody based on race, national origin, religion, age or sexual orientation. Again, a white woman can walk up and under the UN law on religious tolerance and freedom she could claim they were anti-white because she was white and also her religion forbid pig food. She can claim, but she has no legal case.
We have two groups, neither are Buddhists, Group A and Group B. Group B is telling the Group A that what Group A is doing is violating the religious dietary laws of Group B. Group A is not Group B, but Group B is telling Group A that they have to take up the religious laws of Group B.
It's direct religious interference by the patrons of the soup kitchen upon the servers of the soup kitchen and it's based on racism and intolerance. It's bigotry. The people serving pig are not the bigots, the intolerant ones are the people complaining and trying to force their own religous dietary laws on the pig eaters.
The UN gives everybody the right to create their own religion regardless of race. We can't take offense, i.e. be intolerant because others don't share our religion. The racism and intolerance is going from those religious groups that have dietary laws towards the group serving the pig.
It would be like a group demanding that a Yeshiva serve pork because their religion has banned every other food. There is a politcial and religious authoritarian intolerance being directed towards this soup kitchen serving pig. If they want to serve pig, that is their deal. We cannot be intolerant of them. It's religious imposition otherwise, which is a UN Human Rights violation.
Any one of those pig servers could claim her religion was about eating only pig and there would be a massive million dollar civil rights lawsuit within minutes if anybody tried to stop her from serving pig.
To even complain about them serving pig is an actionable UN Human Rights violation.
People need to let people Be.
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 8:31:42 PM |
That takes it beyond the realm of "opinion control" to the point of active discrimination.
It's their soup! They can serve it to whoever they want. In fact they'll serve it to anyone that wants it. If Jewish or Muslim homeless people refuse to eat pork they can find another soup kitchen.
Would you consider it just "opinion" if a religious group offering meals had as a one of their conditions for giving a Christmas dinner "take communion or get nothing".
It's their food so they can do whatever they want with it. They can put whatever requirements they want on it. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 8:50:42 PM | I am a French presently living in Canada. I give food to the Soup Kitchen and NOBODY will ever tell me which kind of food to give to satisfy the needs of specific religious groups. I give what I want to give and whomever can decide to eat it or starve. The homeless Jews and Muslims have the choice. This has gone too far and I can't believe the stupidity of many of the people who have posted in this particular forum. Food is Food. If I was homeless in some middle eastern country, could I request "Fondue" and cry out discrimination to my French culture if I didn't get any.  The important act is in the giving of the food to the homeless. | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 8:54:28 PM | ^^^^ Good point, BUT why does this organization insist that it be
PORK and nothing else?? Doesn't that kind of make you just a tiny bit
suspicious in this day and age? Just a teeny bit? PIG or NOTHING - END OF STORY!?
The organization is a extreme RIGHT-WING! Don't forget that
part. It's EXTREME!
What if the KKK was serving up their own concoction....ALWAYS including
pig or by-products of it to a soup kitchen. Let me say, in Vancouver, that
kitchen would be shut down before you can say "no soup for you!" Canadians
won't wait for a judgement.
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/4/2007 9:09:54 PM |
This has gone too far and I can't believe the stupidity of many of the people who have posted in this particular forum. Food is Food. If I was homeless in some middle eastern country, could I request "Fondue" and cry out discrimination to my French culture if I didn't get any.
If it truly were a case of people who have nothing being too choosy then I would agree but it clearly isn't.
As I said, inundate the place with middle easterners, identifiably Jewish, africans and even throw in a few apparently inter-racial couples, enough to outnumber the native French there and I am absolutely certain they would shut down operations within a week.
They say no-one will be refused and I say call their bluff. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 1:13:33 AM | I posted my personal experiences with one of these soup kitchens in Paris, and I also included the web address for anyone who cared to view the political leanings of the party involved. Their position is, "to help us before them". France has one of the largest Muslim populations in Europe, and has experienced a significant backlash as a result.
So to anyone who has posted idiotic comments like "Beggars can't be choosers" and the like - pull your head out! Read before you speak! Educate yourself before you form an opinion. If not, all you end up doing is showing your ignorance. Wake up! | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:01:31 AM | I posted my personal experiences with one of these soup kitchens in Paris, and I also included the web address for anyone who cared to view the political leanings of the party involved.
I even translated a few from French....
Yup, these folk are essentially Nazis, they oppose others on a racial and ethnic AND religious basis, even to the point of being vocal about "ethnic interbreeding". They have used what should be an altruistic mission (to help the homeless), as a vehicle to promote a right-wing nationalist (nazi) agenda. This in and of itself is unconscionable.
To some however, that they promote hate to Jews? ...fits their agenda, that they promote hate towards Muslims? fits another.
And, for the simple fact that they promote a xenophobic agenda towards non-Europeans in general?
Fits with a general apathy towards xenophobia towards non Europeans.
Then there are those who would probably not agree with these things, but, ...too lazy to check the facts.
People need to let people Be.
That some will focus on the aspect of "giving", is the most insidious example of how things like "death camps" get their start.
The important act is in the giving of the food to the homeless.
........Read the web page.
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 8:09:12 AM | This group is obviously prejudice/bias...
My question is... are they state funded?
They give out food... pork... if it is not funded by the state... then WHO CARES!?
This is not a nice group of people, but they ARE feeding people... I would not care to donate time or money to them... but so long as they are not taking state funds, I don't know that there is anyway to stop them. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 10:16:30 AM | What if we this soup kitchen only served dog food?
What if I felt so negatively towards poor, homeless, starving people that I operated a soup kitchen that only served dog food?
I get my jollies making people do terrible, disgusting things that they normally wouldn't do. I'll feed them, sure, but they have to eat what I say they can eat, and that's dog food.
Could I take the dog food as a charitable tax deduction? Would I be seen as someone that's doing good in the community?
It's not an irrelevant question; as far as a Muslim or a Jew is concerned, I'm sure they'd rather eat dog food than pork. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 11:17:45 AM | Nazis are dumb.
Here is how they unwittingly feed Jews. Every meal they provide for the non-Jews is a meal that does not need to come from somewhere else. In other words... Those kitchens that provide kosher meals will have more capacity to serve, because of the meals provided by the soup-nazis.
So, regardless of their aim... Jews and Muslims can still benefit.
Let the food flow. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 11:24:21 AM |
Nazis are dumb.
Did you read their website yet?
This whole thing reminds me of people taking the side of a husband who beats his wife and children, because he's a good provider.
Does John Wayne Gacy get a pass because, ...well, he DID do a clown show for the kids....?
Let the food flow.
And the hate grow. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 12:21:22 PM |
Did you read their website yet?
This whole thing reminds me of people taking the side of a husband who beats his wife and children, because he's a good provider.
Does John Wayne Gacy get a pass because, ...well, he DID do a clown show for the kids....?
I didn't read it. Its in French, right? I read your posts... and I agree with you that they are racist. However, I do think that food is food.
And the hate grow.
Right.... it happens in free societies. Its a strength though, to allow free thought. I think ultimately what happens is that more good than bad will come of it. Also, by shutting down a group that we disagree with, what precident is set? Perhaps next we should outlaw Protestants in France?
I would agree though for law enforcement to watch them to make sure that they don't become domestic terrorists. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 1:53:51 PM |
A French Court ruled Tuesday that an organisation with far-right links can continue offering pork soup to the homeless, rejecting police complaints that the food distribution was racist.
Seems the whole bureaucratic system is going totally neurotic. They pick on pork being against Jewish religion. Terminology, unclean for Jews. ( I am not Jewish )
That’s just one part of what’s unclean for them, are they considering banning the rest of French Food now ? Pork falls into the category cloved foot animals (According to the bible Lev 4 ver 11-13 ) Fish with no scales eg shell fish, like crabs lobsters, shrimps, scallops, skate,.snails, horse etc
This is the French main menu, snails, horse etc,, Most of what the French and Germans eat is offensive to Jews. Every native animal in Australia is unclean. Shark, ostriches, snakes, octopus, herons, scallops, crabs …...
It would be impossible for the Government / Court not fail but to reject police complaints. They didn’t know at the time what a can or Worms they are opening up ( Sorry can’t eat them either )
Shellfish thrive by sewage out-falls. Lovely. As these are all suppose to be unclean animals, Eg they clean up after the crap us humans leave behind. In the Irish Sea for example, through the local power station radiation , lobsters have absorbed and carry 1000 times the permitted level of radiation toxins. The government have deemed them uneatable. Maybe there is a genetic reason which we are only proving now. Maybe rather than it being a religious thing, maybe this is where a lot of the cancers come from. Eat crap, you may feel crap.
Anyone for dinner  | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 1:56:56 PM |
Right.... it happens in free societies. Its a strength though, to allow free thought. I think ultimately what happens is that more good than bad will come of it.
Hate generally serves to foster misunderstanding, resentment, and more hate. It leads to murder, rape, theft... the dehumanization of classes of people in particular. How does it serve to create more good than bad?
Most civilized countries that allow free speech don't even allow hate speech.
Look how much good came out of the hate fostered by Nazis in the Second World War. Look at all the good that objectifying women in pornography brings about.
I would love to see evidence that hate brings about more good than bad. | |
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| French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist
Posted: 1/5/2007 2:05:53 PM |
Hate generally serves to foster misunderstanding, resentment, and more hate. It leads to murder, rape, theft... the dehumanization of classes of people in particular. How does it serve to create more good than bad?
Most civilized countries that allow free speech don't even allow hate speech.
Look how much good came out of the hate fostered by Nazis in the Second World War. Look at all the good that objectifying women in pornography brings about.
I would love to see evidence that hate brings about more good than bad.
Your view on what I said is too specificly focussed on the soup-nazis.
Free thought in general is good. It means that we won't agree with all of it, and that some of it will be destructive. However, allowing it in general is a good thing.
I am not condoning hate itself. I think that its just a part of the 'free thought' that we have to accept if we really want it to be free.
As for what the 'more good' consitutes... well, think of any groups that have been outside of the norm, which have contributed something good to society and you will see what free thought gives you.
Here is one guy that free thought gave us: Copernicus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copernicus | |
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