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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/29/2007 5:33:04 PM | Not to be confrontational, but I question this:
As I said, you lead ....from the front.
Now what this fellow did was indeed brave, saving those people from certain death. However, what I am trying to figure out is this:
I reported to my platoon leader. He said let's go see the operations officer. In turn we went to our commander and the words were said for me that day that, you know, dean this up. "If this damn stuff is what's happening here," I told him, "You can take these wings right now 'cause they're only sewn on with thread." I was ready to quit flying.
What is the difference between Lt. Watada going into battle and refusing re-deployment after learning the immorality of the war in Iraq, and Mr. Thompson also insisting that he would rather be stripped of his wings rather than go back to engage in the Viet Nam war the way it was being fought? I don't see much difference in the way they made their stances. Watada didn't refuse to go to Iraq, he refused to return to Iraq. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/29/2007 5:48:59 PM | Correct.
Lt. Watada served only in Korea, and refused deployment with his men to Iraq.
That's where I draw a moral line in the sand.
Even though I am strongly against this war, as an officer, he has an abiding commitment to the men he leads. His oath is to his country, and his duty is to his men.
To go there, and truly lead them morally, would be the best option. Refusal to participate in any operation that goes against the legal rules of war is the best protest. If he was a strong enough leader, and well respected, one could make a reasonable assumption that his men would support him 100 percent.
Once there, he would have far better evidence (if one takes his position for a moment) to support his claims. He could possibly save not only the lives of his men, but of innocent civilians.
He can only save himself, with his current stance.
Working from the inside, in this case, could prove far more effective to his cause.
Just my opinion. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/29/2007 6:18:01 PM | My apologies... I thought I had read somewhere that he had gone to Iraq for one tour, but I cannot find the source so I can accept I had an incorrect interpretation of that detail.
I guess where I would disagree with your position would be this:
He can only save himself, with his current stance.
Perhaps it could be perceived that he is saving himself because he is not physically putting his life on the line in the field of battle. However, the courtmarshall certainly does put him at risk. I understand your point of him going and not commanding his troops to follow orders that he receives from his superiors which he feels are immoral. That said, questioning orders on the field of battle often times does result in the deaths of soldiers. If he finds himself unable to give orders that might save their lives, what good has he done by being there?
Refusal to participate in any operation that goes against the legal rules of war is the best protest.
I believe this was his intent. I do understand where you see the difference. While he believes every operation being conducted is against the legal rules of war, you believe that he would have more credibility actually deciding once he's there whether certain operations are illegal and if there are any that are legal. From my personal view, the war is illegal, which makes the entire operation illegal, so even without being deployed he is in essence protesting illegal operations as you say. Whether he's in America or Iraq, he is still going to face consquences for that protest. He didn't wait until he was retired and could not be courtmarshalled before he spoke out against it. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/29/2007 11:43:53 PM |
The comparison isn't to Watada, it's the "do what your told and do not question orders" thought process that led to the Jews being gassed by the Nazis that is being compared to the position that American soldiers are not to question orders. If it is unacceptable for soldiers to question orders, who's going to stop their superiors from ordering them to gas Iraqis? From what I am reading, many of those in the military believe that if they are ever given that order, they will do it... refusing to obey the order would be cowardly. So what differentiates a Nazi soldier from an American soldier other than uniform and/or the dictator giving the orders?
That Guy:
In an attempt to answer your question, I would say from a Historical perspective that the Nazi Soldiers did not pass the the ethical/moral test that many Combatants still face. Cowardly is not an accurate description of a COMBATANT that will draw the line on killing SUSPECTED Inoccent civilians, even though Ordered to do so. Cowardly is refusal to face an advasary that threatens the life of fellow Soldiers and even the life of the Citizens in the Heat of the moment of confrontation. Cowardly is also copping out on suspected confrontations as a Human when ones Duty is plainly towards others that ones actions will unselfishly effect hopefully in a positive way.
Montreal G. gives an excellent Historical example of the Duty and responsibility of a positive action by an American who INTERVENED on a massacre by wigged-out fellow American Soldiers. Had HE Refused to deploy to duty in Nam?.... Go Figure! I am old enough to remember the following trial and outcome of the renegade C.O. (Calley) who ordered the my lai murders.
For everything there is a Season, place and time. To shirk ones Duty is also refusing to place oneself in the line of fire of perhaps Positive outcomes for others, for ones own selfish Gain.
Ya can't stick yer head in the sand leaving your ass exposed, HOPING ya made a positive difference for others!
Watada is shirking the chance of adding his leadership decisions to influence a better world without Fanatical minded nuts threatening his Country, Family and Home.
I have respect for his life, but Not his decision... Someone else's Son or Daughter will have to step up to his position in Iraq, perhaps facing death to do the Job he Volunteered and was PAID for, because he is too Chickenshit to face the task.
America is fortunate to have other exceptional Patriots who aren't asking for "Free Rides" while enjoying the Perks of Freedom. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/30/2007 6:59:17 AM | Here is information on more support for Lt. Watada. Feb. 2nd through Feb. 5th.
Too bad they couldn't afford to buy commercial time on the Super Bowl.
http://www.ivaw.org/
Days of Action to support Lt. Watada - Feb. 5
Friday, February 2nd through Monday, February 5th, the day of Lt. Ehren Watada's court-martial, IVAW's Olympia Chapter and IVAW Deployed will be holding a series of events/fundraisers in order to raise awareness on the importance and details of Ehren's action, and subsequently, his court-martial.
We will show up on the day of Ehren's trial with a presence and message that cannot be ignored nor denied. Our message is simple: George W. Bush and those who choose to partake in war crimes are the people that should be on trial. Lt. Ehren Watada's argument is legitimate and should be adopted by all who might be given unlawful orders.
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=3456
War Resisters -- Support the Troops Who Refuse to Fight
It takes courage to say that you will not fight -- especially if you are a soldier. As more members of the U.S. military step forward for peace, the peace movement must step forward to support them.
Large numbers are now refusing to serve: The Department of Defense estimates that there are about 8,000 AWOL service members. The GI Rights Hotline (800-394-9544) is currently receiving about 3,000 calls a month.
Most importantly, a growing number of soldiers are speaking out, against the illegality and immorality of the Iraq war and the orders they are being told to carry out. These brave men and women are risking jail time and their futures to stand up against the war.
Here are two of the growing number of resisters, click here for a fuller list:
Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to deploy to Iraq, had been facing more than seven years in prison for criticizing the president in a public speech, until the charge of "contempt toward the President" was rescinded following public outcry. He still faces up to four years in prison; his trial is set to begin on Feb. 5, 2007.
A federal appeals court is currently reviewing Army medic Spc. Agustín Aguayo's case and considering whether to overturn the Army's decision to deny him conscientious objector status. If Aguayo's appeal is successful, it will be a historic victory; if it fails, Aguayo could be sentenced to up to seven years in prison.
The stories of returning combat veterans helped turn the tide and end the war in Vietnam. Today's war resisters are providing critical first-hand knowledge of the horror and illegality of the Iraq war. Each service member who has spoken out against the war in Iraq has inspired more war resisters to come forward.
http://www.ivaw.org/activedutyresources
Resources for Active Duty Soldiers, National Guard, and Reserves
http://www.ivaw.org/faq
Iraq Veterans Against the War … Why we're against the war.
Here are 10 reasons we oppose this war.
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/30/2007 9:13:13 AM | To johnnynoname:
I agree with you. As I understand from his interview, he believed in the cause when he joined and would have been happy to go. Through the revelations of what the Bush administration seem to be doing, he had a change of heart.
People are allowed to change their minds. Soldiers aren't supposed to because if they do then the military falls apart. Soldiers that refuse orders get into HEAPS of trouble. If they didn't, then that makes it easier for other soldiers to disobey without fear of repercussions.
I don't know Watada. It could be that he joined the army for the benefits, it could be that he has a sincere desire to help his country. I don't know what his motivations were for joining the army. Whatever the case, he's making a stand against the war in Iraq.
The difference between the Canadian Army and the American Army seem to be that Canadian Army seems to be dedicated to keeping the peace on this planet and provide aid where it is needed. The American army is more interested in proving the superiority of the good old U.S. of A..
Shock and Awe. Secure natural resources for the continued development of America. Forget about the rest of the planet. The Americans enjoy feeling that they are top dogs on this planet. Damn the Chinese for getting into space. That's the American's frontier to conquer!
Having soldiers like Watada standing up and publicly speaking out against what he sees his country doing wrong... reaffirms my faith that there are many Americans who aren't that blood thirsty. They'd rather have peace.
Whatever Watada's motives are, his message is a good one. It's too bad that he's going to have to get punished for taking that stand of his, but the army he is in can't afford dissension. They have to crush the voices of dissent before those words infect other soldiers. The American Army has a big enough job to clean up the mess it made on the other side of the planet without it's soldiers refusing to do their jobs. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/30/2007 9:37:26 AM | | I think everyone who signs up for the military has a commitment and responsibility to serve there country. If this officer is not following her orders she should have to face the consequences upon her. The Bush Administration is doing a great job over in Iraq, there are no more mass graves, women are not being executed in Soccer stadiums, and children and not being fed to guard dogs. We have no choice but to be the police of the world in a time of Nuclear crisis. We have to do what we have to do, we have no choice, or something will happen that will make 911 look like a cakewalk. I think its terrible and wrong for people not to support our troops. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/30/2007 10:44:51 AM |
The Bush Administration is doing a great job over in Iraq, there are no more mass graves,
You don't think 600 000 dead would require mass graves?
We have no choice but to be the police of the world in a time of Nuclear crisis. We have to do what we have to do, we have no choice, or something will happen that will make 911 look like a cakewalk.
Please point out how Iraq was a threat to the United States.
I think its terrible and wrong for people not to support our troops.
You think the Bush administration putting the troops in danger for no good reason is supporting them, and those who want them brought home before more are killed or injured is not? | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/30/2007 12:03:46 PM | (Msg. 332) countryslim01 wrote:
Watada is shirking the chance of adding his leadership decisions to influence a better world without Fanatical minded nuts threatening his Country, Family and Home. And therein lies the problem ... it's a lie. The war is illegal and was started on a lie.
No Fanatical minded nuts have threatened his country, or his family & home (well perhaps I was too quick with that ... "neocon nutjobs" do count as "fanatical-minded nuts").
America is fortunate to have other exceptional Patriots who aren't asking for "Free Rides" while enjoying the Perks of Freedom. Watada is not asking for a "free ride" ... he was willing to be stationed elsewhere ... for a just cause. He simply feels the War in Iraq is illegal (which it is) and did not want to be a part of that. I can't say that I blame him.
I too go out of my way to avoid doing things that are deemed illegal ... makes perfect sense to me!!! Those of us with a conscience live that way ...  | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 1/31/2007 2:46:20 PM | -----Original Message-----From: Winogradcoach@aol.com
Show Your Support for Lt. Ehren Watada
Save the Date: February 3rd, 4:00 PM
Meet at corner of San Pedro and Second streets in Little Tokyo
@ the Friendship Knot sculpture.
March through Little Tokyo in Los Angeles
(details below)
This is our chance to show support for Lt. Watada, the first U.S. military officer to refuse
to serve in Iraq as a conscientious objector. The government will try him February 5th.
Please join NCRR (Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress) in their support of First Lieutenant Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse deployment to Iraq, now facing six years in prison and Augustin Aquayo, also facing court-marshall and seven years in prison.
February 3rd (only two days before Ehren's court marshall)
4:00 PM
Meeting at the corner of San Pedro and Second streets in Little Tokyo @ the Friendship Knot sculpture.
March through Little Tokyo.
Presentation at 5:30 at Higashi Auditorium (behind the corner of 2nd & San Pedro)
Coffee, tea and Udon to be served.
Guest Speakers:
Carolyn Ho, mother of Ehren Watada
Helga Aguayo, wife of Augustin Aguayo
Jabbar Magrudder, Iraqi vet
Reverand Paul Nagano
Music and entertainment by:
Nobuko
Olmeca
For more information call: 213-680-3484
www.thankyoult.org
SUPPORT FOR EHREN WATADA GROWS AS
COURT-MARTIAL HEARING APPROACHES
Feb. 3 March and Program in Little Tokyo to Oppose the Iraq War
and Support Military Resisters
The community as a whole is invited to come out on Feb. 3 at 4:00 p.m. to 2nd & San Pedro Streets to voice their opposition to the war in Iraq and to march in support of military resisters. Sponsored by Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress (NCRR) and Asian American Vietnam Veterans Organization (AAVVO) the march and program will call for an end to the Iraq War, oppose President Bush’s call for 21,500 additional troops and urge support for 1st Lt. Ehren Watada and other military resisters, such as Army Spc. Agustin Aguayo, both of whom face court-martial hearings in the coming weeks. The march will wind its way through Little Tokyo, ending at Higashi Honganji Buddhist Temple*, 505 East Third Street, for a program.
Feb. 5 Court-Martial Trial Begins
As the Feb. 5 court-martial trial of 1st Lt. Ehren Watada approaches, anti-war activists and supporters across the country are stepping up their activity aimed at getting the military to drop its charges against Watada. Watada faces charges of (1) missing a troop movement for failing to deploy to Iraq with his Stryker Brigade last June and (2) conduct unbecoming an officer, for statements criticizing the Iraq War and President Bush. He faces up to 6 years in prison.
In January pre-trial hearings at Fort Lewis, Washington, presiding military judge Lt. Col. John Head ruled against Watada, stating that the legality of the war (Watada believes the Iraq war is illegal) is irrelevant to the charges at hand. Head also refused to recognize Watada’s First Amendment right to speak out against the war.
Support for Watada has continued to grow despite these legal setbacks. Members from Iraq Veterans Against the War have set up “Camp Resistance” across the road from Fort Lewis, planning to stay there until the end of the court-martial trial. In New York, San Francisco, the Bay Area, Chicago and other parts of the country organizers are calling for more vigils, rallies and programs in support of Watada and all military resisters and against the war.
Lt.Watada’s father Bob, his wife Rosa and Ehren’s mother Carolyn Ho, have toured the country and continue to speak on behalf of their son, appealing for support.
Feb. 3 March and Program in Little Tokyo Features Watada’s mother Carolyn Ho and well-known performers Quetzal and Nobuko Miyamoto
Featured at the program on Feb. 3 will be Carolyn Ho, who will fly in that day from speaking engagements in the mid-West. Ms. Ho will give an update about her son’s court-martial trial before heading for Olympia, Washington for the first day of his trial. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/1/2007 11:26:52 PM | .In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you. Talmud
.Thank You OP for bringing this to our attention, on a dating website.
This story will help give those looking for a mate some insight. It will tell how a fathers past can come back to haunt him. How his past can cause him to loss his son and his relationship.
I see a mother and father gripped in fear for their son. The sad thing of it all, it is the father's own doing.
I do not know if Robert and Ho are still married, but if they are, I can see a huge strain on their relationship.
I do not support the Lt., but I do feel sorry for him. I have yet to figure out whether he is a victim of the anti-war movement, or whether he was a part of it from the beginning. One thing is for sure, he is a victim of his own doing.You made the bed, now you get to sleep in it
.The following site explains how his father got out of fighting in Vietnam. It even goes to say that his father explained the pro's and con's of enlisting before he signed up. The Seattle Times: Search Results
Address:http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=nogo7m&date=20060607&query=watada
.Since Lt. Ehren Watada and his parents are from Hawaii and of
Japanese-American decent I foresee that he and his parents will find it hard to walk in their own neighborhood without feeling shame. His 15 minutes of fame has turned into a lifetime of shame
.Below are websites that are against Lt. Ehren Watada. Here is a quote from the first site.
Fred Oshima, a columnist for the San Francisco-based Nichi Bei Times, denounced "Watada's selfish military antics." He quoted with approval the statement issued by Henry Wadahara, former commander of the California division of the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars): "Refusing a deployment is a dishonor and a slap in the face to all who have served so bravely. Our 105,000 members stand behind me in saying we are not supporting Watada's decision to disobey a lawful order. Ehren Watada has violated the oath he took as an officer in the United States Army. He's betrayed the men and women who are putting their lives on the line every day out there working to make the lives of the Iraq people better.
Here is a quote from the second site.
"He is bringing shame to the JAs (Japanese Americans)," Bob Wada, charter president of the Japanese American Korean War Veterans, told the Pacific Citizen, newspaper of the Japanese American Citizens League. "The guys that were killed in action ... they must be turning over in their graves that a JA is refusing to go to war."
ZNet |Anti War | Officer's Refusal of Iraq Deployment Divides the Japanese American Community:
Address:http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=10985
Officer
Address:http://www.refusingtokill.net/Watada/WatadascaseandJapanesearticle.htm
.This site (below) indicates to me that a brokenhearted mother; because of her son's actions and her husband's past, she went to Washington DC in search of help for her son.
Like many Americans, she believed she could come to the capital city and change the world. Or at least her small part of it.
Watada?s mom on support mission | TheNewsTribune.com | Tacoma, WA Address:http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nationworld/story/6315823p-5506416c.html
.Since it was obvious there was no support in Hawaii (Their home state) Robert; Lt. Ehren Watada's dad went to Japan hoping to draw support there.
.The Rafu Shimpo - L.A. Japanese Daily News Address:http://www.rafu.com/bob.html
.I'm gathering that Lt Ehren Watada thought he would get support from the anti-war activist but had no idea of the repercussion everyone would go thru to include his mom and dad.
Living Gods have a way of being less divine when their armies have left
- Minda Zheng
It is Lt. Gen. James Dubik, commander at Ft. Lewis, who will make the final decision on the court martial. I feel sorry for Lt Ehren Watada, but at the same token such behavior can not be tolerated. I hope that through his punishment, it will send a strong message to others.
.So in closing; if your are looking for a mate and don't wish to find your self in the same shoes as Carolyn Ho, chose your mate wisely.
.We live in trying times, and we have young soldiers that have witnessed all this. We have had young soldiers die on the battle fields. To let this go unpunished would be a grave injustice to those who have served with pride and courage.
I salute all our men and women that have answered the call to duty for our country.
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/3/2007 11:23:30 PM | strangebloom, i see where you are coming from. however, if the military action in question is unjustified or unwinnable, the military will eventually REFUSE to fight. this is exactly what happened in vietnam.
soldiers were sick of dying for no reason, sick of being told lies by kennedy, johnson and nixon. they were sick of fighting in a foreign land where they didnt know who was their friend and who was the enemy. towards the end of the war, officers were getting "fragged" by their soldiers. the soldiers simply refused to die for no reason; they refused to die trying to take a hill that the NLF or vietcong would re-take that same NIGHT!!! would we call these people who refused to die in an insane, endless war "traitors?"
in conclusion, i understand that if everyone disobeyed orders the military would collapse. but from the vietnam experience, this isn't always necessarily a bad thing. this was one of the reasons why the vietnam war HAD to end. Bush has the military stuck between a rock and a hard place. if the war drags on for more years, as i believe it will, then soldiers refusing duty will become more and more common, until eventually many will refuse to serve. if the war is unjustified to begin with, if we have no definite goals other than to avoid defeat, and it drags on for years and years, it is inevitable that there will be mass resistance inside the military. if the war was justified, there wouldn't be much of a worry about the military collapsing from the inside. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/4/2007 12:56:47 AM | No.. the military personnel never refused to fight in Vietnam. They were OFTEN ordered NOT to attack strategic targets which could have allowed the war to be won.
The men who went to vietnam, even if they disagreed with the war, fought bravely whenever they were told to.
In Vietnam you really had no choice once "in country". You fought or you died.
They were given a TRUELY impossible task. They were told to NOT win but not give up. (until Nixon was elected and initiated the withdrawl)
LBJ micro-managed Vietnam from the White House, totally ignoring the pleas of the military commanders who wanted to use the forces in a manner which COULD have won the war.
The Air Force and Navy repeatedly requested permission to take out SAM storage sites. That was ALWAYS refused by LBJ. This alone was probably responsible for 75% of our aircraft losses. THAT alone could have turned the tide.
Men who disagreed with the reasoning behind the war VOLUNTEERED to serve and go over to Vietnam. I know that for a fact. My father was one of them. He was a surgeon. He became the oldest person EVER to graduate the flight training program for Flight Surgeons at Pensacola FL. He went because he believed that the MEN who didn't CHICKEN OUT deserved the best medical care that they could get. If you know of anyone who was patched back together on board the USS Coral Sea from 1973 to the end of the conflict... he probably did it.
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This thread is about an officer in the US Army today who decided to disobey a direct order in protest of national policy.
If that is the real reason for his action, he should also understand that there is the risk of having to face the punishment for his refusal to obey the order.
Assuming that is his purose, then his protest is far more noble than the idiot who is protesting income tax by holeing up in his house with a gun, putting his familie's lives at risk RIGHT NOW.
There are appropriate ways to protest a policy or law that you think is wrong. But if you decide to take thos actions... remember that you may have to serve the time. If you take up arms and resist arrest, you simply prove yourself to be wrong. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/4/2007 10:42:04 AM | Really? So hundreds of officers weren't "fragged" by their own troops for sending them on pointless missions with a high probability of death? Just so these officers could get another stripe on their uniform?
It's not "chickening out" if the war is immoral and will never end. Generals have admitted that the Vietnam war would have lasted 100 more years if US troops weren't pulled out. Face it, the vietnam war was not going to end. if it went on for even 10 more years, there probably wouldnt have been any vietnamese PEOPLE left. we were fighting people in vietname who had been under control by the chinese, japanese, and french for hundreds of years. then we decided that we would take over control of the situation and subdue a country with hundreds of years of proud resistance to outisde invaders. the vietminh and the NLF provided services to their people, much like Hamas is doing in Palestine today. we only bombed the population into the ground.
in the south, we imposed a string of murderous dictators, and then wondered why we couldnt win the "hearts and minds" of the vietnamese people. while these dictators were imprisoning and murdering their own people, the vietminh were giving people food and land. in south vietnam a few people owned all the land, and the people who lived on it were starving. the vietnminh and NLF imposed a more equal distribution. this is why we never could have won. they won the support of the population through good deeds. we just carpet bombed, and expected them to love us because of it.
As far as the presidents not listening to the generals, when the generals were proposing the use of nuclear weapons, that is a good thing.
We bombed both north and south vietnam into the ground. We bombed them so entirely, that we began to run out of targets in north vietnam towards the end of the war.
As far as the military being ordered not to attack certan targets, that is plainly false. Large areas in vietnam were declared "free fire zones" and were bombed indiscriminately, resulting in millions of civilian casualties.
Your father volunteered for service. Many did not. Many of those who were drafted were poor whites and blacks. Rich people and college students got deferrments all the way through the war. (like Bush, Rummy, and "seven deferments" Cheney "I had better things to do.")
The fact that we have an all volunteer army certainly does make a difference. THe people in the military, when they signed up, accepted the fact that they might be put in a war situaton. However, they signed up to DEFEND the US, not to invade other countries on false premises in an attempt to subjugate the Iraqi people. This is a crucial distincton. It is BUsh who broke the contract by invading another country and consciously putting troops in a dangerous environment. and after BUsh's own crimes, you people are putting all the blame on this one soldier who refused to go to Iraq? stop trying to find scapegoats for failures that are bush's responsbility. he broke the contract by starting a war that had nothing to do with the defense of the US. deal with the consequences. there will be many more soldiers who refuse duty as the war goes on. and there should be. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 3:14:56 AM |
It is BUsh who broke the contract by invading another country and consciously putting troops in a dangerous environment.
If I remember correctly, we had a 'cease fire' with Iraq that was in place from 1991 to 2003. The Iraqi army during that time period would repeatedly fire at our aircraft flying in the 'no-fly zone', therefor breaking the cease fire and allowing the war to resume.
In regards to the original topic, I wouldn't hesitate to put that officer behind bars. He is a traitor and a coward, and deserves no less than what he is getting. I can't wait to go to Iraq. I joined the Army to be a bullet slinger, to defend this country, to kill. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's the grim reality of war. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 4:31:13 AM | Iam ex SSF out of pettawawa canada this guy is a traitor and coward,if you want to know the mission that we are on,(911 people jumping to their deaths made me weep)these islamic terrorist need to all die,and you civilians that have never been a professional soldier should shut your cowardly mouths,about soldiers over seas,who are you,you are pro-terrorist,hey war is ugly and people die,It is a honour to die for your country as a soldier,we would be better equiped if it were not for the bleeding heart liberals,thats all I have to say.Iam proud of all the soldiers over there,alive or dead may God bless you all. | |
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| Watada : NPR report
Posted: 2/5/2007 4:13:37 PM | Here's what NPR reported on Watada:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7176579 | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 7:44:51 PM | it's not "defending the country from attack" if you are openly attacking a country that did nothing to us. you military guys (and gals) think your choice to serve gives your opinons the status of divinity. if you choose to join the military, that's fine, but stop interjecting the fact into debate where it doesn't belong, as if by saying since you are in the military, you are automatically immunne from all criticism. if you serve, you serve for yourself, and because you believe you are making a positive contribution to the world, but don't be so pretentious as to imply you are protecting the homeland from attack. don't speak for me, because you aren't protecting me from terrorist attacks. the cia said before the invasion of iraq that the war would drastically increase terrorist attacks, and they have since been proven right.
believe me when i say i'm not knocking those in the military. many probably join for reasons to help people and make a positive difference in the world. but i'm so sick of the rhetoric that "we defend your freedoms, so shut your mouth because your opinon doesn't matter." this just implies that you are seeking a sense of superiority through your service, and that it has nothing to do with a personal desire to change things for the better. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 7:50:41 PM | oh and larry, check up on your history, bro. your last posting mirrors Nazi propaganda in it's entirety, i.e., that there is no greater honor than to give your life for the homeland, regardless of whether or not what you're dying for is a legitimate goal.
just take your argument to the logical conclusion, and admit that you have CONTEMPT for democracy. let's just fabricate a terrorst attack akin to the Reichstag fire, and get on with implementng a military government. for god and country and whatever other shit you can think of. | |
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gd765
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Joined: 10/3/2006
Msg: 347 | |
| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 9:46:46 PM | I just can't resist this one. Most of you are totally missing the point. It DOESN'T MATTER whether the Iraq War is right or wrong. He doesn't have the right to refuse the order to deploy. He refused so he has to take his lumps like a man.
For all of the civilians out there, there is a reason that military law is different from civil law. When we join, we know that we are bound by the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice). We agree to live by this code as a condition for serving our nation. It is absolutely necessary to ensure that the nation maintains an effective fighting force. Without it you just have a large mob with guns.
As for Watada, he raised his hand, he took the same oath that I did. You don't get to change your mind if you don't like the politics of the mission you are ordered to accomplish. It is true that our oath is considerably different from the oath that enlisted soldiers take.
The purpose of this difference is to allow a Commissioned Officer some latitude (if it is necessary) to modify his orders to accomplish the mission as long as you are complying with your commander's intent. It is not meant to give us carte blanche to question or disobey lawful orders. Doing so in a public forum is definately "Conduct Unbecoming".
There IS a caveat regarding disobeying an Unlawful Order. Being ordered to smoke an unarmed civilian or being ordered to take your platoon and wipe out a village is an example of an Unlawful Order. Being ordered to deploy for a mission you "just don't agree with" doesn't meet that requirement. As someone stated above, the right thing to do would have been to deploy and attempt to lead his men with good judgement and morality. By bailing out before the deployment he just looks like a coward.
For him to receive anything less than a LONG prison term would be a slap in the face to all those who have served their country honorably in war.
The saddest part of this is that his unit either deployed short one officer or they pulled someone that probably just returned. On the bright side, they are better off without him. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 10:26:22 PM | msquared..
just b/c Susan Sarandon said 600K doesn't make it accurate.
600K? Give me a break.
The most liberal estimates put it in b/w 50-150K.
The guy should and will be courtmartialed (sp?)
He has let his men down and dishonored himself, and his uniform. Why not transfer to the medical corps?
How many words does it take to post? | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 11:17:38 PM | | When Iraq violated the cease fire/treaty from Desert Storm--this made the ensuing war legal--the USA had every legal right to remove Saddam from power, just as we have every right to expect our Military to perform. While Lt. Watada may get his 15 minutes of fame by pandering to the left wing, he will not be able to defend his actions in Military proceedings. He is unfit to serve and is a disgrace to every military person who performs his /her duties. Perhaps he should explain his reasons for not deploying to the families of those who were deployed and who didn't return. | |
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| Support 1st U.S. Army Officer to Speak Out Against Iraq War
Posted: 2/5/2007 11:22:53 PM | | You may not agree with the war--but that does not make it illegal. What does make it legal--is that Iraq violated the agreement set forth after Desert Storm. They, in fact, violated it some 17 times--this is what gave us the legal right to remove Saddam. | |
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