| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/7/2007 7:09:32 PM | Yes, I too believe that youth violence in Nova Scotia is out of control. Teens and pre-teens have to deal with a lot more then we did growing up today (different era's - changing world). Although I don't believe these children should be sent away to boot camps, jails etc... all these are negative reforcements. The problem I believe (bias opinion) is that there are not enough programs for teens and pre-teens today. It's not fun for anyone to be bullyed and victimized. In the same breath the teens & pre-teens that are bullying and considered to be violent are learning this behaviour from somewhere ..whether it be home, community, friends, school etc...
Restorative justice I believe is a good thing it actually gives the kids a chance to really think about what they did and how their life can end up, learn from their choices and no it may not be for every teen or pre-teen but if it helps one then it's worth it (Its a healthy start in the right direction).
As for punishment and locking them up that doesn't help the situation either. Punishment reforces their behaviour and locking them up with other kids labelled as "trouble teens" will only increase their violent behaviour (learning from each other). There needs to be more models and programs implemented that can help teens understand healthier choices and teaches empathy and communication skills. Self esteem/ self worth are needed. Really how healthy can a teen or pre-teen's self worth be if they are committing volient acts and bullying ... these behaviours are a reflection of how they feel or view themselves if we started working with the teens and pre-teens we might see change instead of finding ways to punish them after all this were all the behaviour may have come from!! Again this is my bias opinion. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/7/2007 7:55:22 PM |
Funny how none of the respondents to this thread are "youths"....there's a million of 'em on POF.
This is funny how gerrymac because I can't see how it matters if a youth responds to it or not. What point are you trying to make? I could be way off, I apologize if I am, but to me your comment implies that youths will not respond because we all take advantage of it and don't want it to change. The one thing I hate most is the steryotpes that are placed on me because of my age. Not all youths are these big bad people that we are made out to be.
Anyways I guess you got your wish because I am an 18 year old youth who dose not agree with the age of the young offenders act. Long befor your 18th birthday you know the difference between right and wrong.
Youths know even if they get caught in the act nothing will happen to them so they develop the "who cares" attitude. They do mean and crewl things that they should not be able to get away. They also speak back to adults and show disrespect. They are getting a way with to much and it is time that it should come to end.
My thing is not just the youths fault although they are given 100% blame for it. Have ya's ever stop and think about where are the parents at when they are walking the streets at one o'clock in the morning? If your kid comes home in a cop care you should know their is a problem. A youth did not put the young affender act in affect and they are not the one's that are keeping the act in affect.
Nothing against any of ya's but I am tired of the ****ing. If ya have such a problem with the act do something about it. Everyone gose on that it is time to stop it but know one dose anything about it. Everyperson who complains about it but dose not make a valid effort to try to stop is just as bad as the youth who did something wrong.
Everytime you's let thing's go with out a punishment, it sends another clear message to the youth that nothing is going to happen to them.
If you's want it to stop, do not go ****ing to the cop because he/she has no controle over the rules, he/she just inforces them. They are just as frustrated as you.Go to your house of commons or parliament etc with tv camera's around election time and see what happens? If they do not get the messege the first time around, keep going untill they do. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 6:21:39 AM | Thanks for your response. I would love to hear from more youth on the topic. Have you ever been victomized and your attacker walked away without a slap on the wrist??
Your are right in what you are saying, we do need to pressure parliament and not just accept that this is the way it is.
keep talking and someone has to listen.
Our youth are being victomized and we as adults have to stop it!!!!!! | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 7:22:18 AM | I can't see how it matters if a youth responds to it or not.
I thought we might get more useful insights from the perspectives of those closer to the age group being discussed than from geezers like me. Pointing out the lack of commentary was merely pointing out that maybe the discussion was missing a useful perspective. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 7:42:06 AM |
Ever since parents have not been allowed to proper discipline their children we have been having these problems
I find it interesting how many of these posts still contain an implication that harsher punishment is better.
FWIW, parents *are* allowed to properly discipline their children. If your idea of properly disciplining children is the regular use of physical force, however, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Again, punishment is something that should only be used when nothing else has worked. The use of physical force as behavioural control runs the risk of instilling a belief that physical force is an appropriate tactic for dealing with problems. (Bear in mind that this is from a person who would like to see far more corporal punishment used).
The criminals need less rights and stronger punishment
Absolutely. But harsh punishment cannot be used indiscriminately or it will lead to more problems than it solves. There is also the major issue of: for punishment to be effective, it must be certain, swift and severe. The inability of our system to meet the first two requirements compromises the value of punishment.
Have you ever been victomized and your attacker walked away without a slap on the wrist?
I can appreciate your frustration. However, bear in mind that the 'slap on the wrist' was because they were first offenders. AMP can only be used once. If the behaviour continues and is not reported - which would lead to more stringent measures - the problem in that case is the lack of reporting, not the system.
sv | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 8:09:54 AM | I appreciate the comments of what you think does not work, would you be able to give some insite as to what you think needs to be done to help our young people from being victomized as well as the communities they live in.
We would like to walk down the street without fear of getting swarmed, stabbed or murdered.
The largest problem is that most of the solutions in place for accussed youth is set out as volunteer bases. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 8:27:57 AM |
I appreciate the comments of what you think does not work, would you be able to give some insite as to what you think needs to be done to help our young people from being victomized as well as the communities they live in.
That's a different matter than what I was talking about. I was talking about affecting the actions of the [potential] offender. You are asking what potential victims should do to decrease their chances of being victimized. There is a *ton* of crime prevention stuff out there, dealing not only with what you can do in terms of your actions, but also how to make your surroundings less conducive to crime: it's called CPTED - crime prevention through environmental design - and it's been proven effective over an over again. If your local police don't have an officer trained in CPTED, pressure them to get one. Have you got a Neighbourhood Watch going? Citizens on Patrol? There are a lot of things you can do.
We would like to walk down the street without fear of getting swarmed, stabbed or murdered.
One of the more interesting things in criminology is how public perceptions of crime, and their likelihood of being victimized, bear little or no relation to reality. According to Juristat/Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, youth crime - including violent crime - has decreased. Your likelihood of being swarmed and stabbed or murdered is actually quite low. Are you terrified every time you get in a car because you might get into an accident? Whether you live in fear or not is up to you.
The largest problem is that most of the solutions in place for accussed youth is set out as volunteer bases.
And that is a problem why? The point is that the services are provided. It's a community issue, why not let the community be responsible? And if you're really concerned about the issue, why not volunteer yourself?
sv | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 12:31:51 PM | I feel that it is not the community's problem, it's the lack of parental guidance followed by a judicial system that doesn't really work when it comes to punishing juveniles. Nothing is easy these days, kids grow up faster than we did as children and it seems that the world is a harsher place than the one I grew up in.
Semper Vera: I am not saying physically punishing a child every time they do something wrong, but when all other options fail you have to do something. I do not think people shoud be running around beating their kids every time they do something wrong. If a child is out of control physically, for example, and you have to physically restrain them you should not be worried about charges being laid against you for doing so. I am rather glad that when I did things I really should not have done as a child that I was corrected.
I don't tend to believe any published statistics on, well, anything really. . . so I don't believe that violent crime has decreased. If you've been downtown on a week-end, you've probably seen something happen. If you've read a newspaper or spoken with a cab driver, you'll find all kinds of things happening. I've noticed an increase since the first year I lived in Halifax so I can't see how it's lower now.
JMHO | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 2:22:08 PM | I just got finished reading the discussion paper on crime prevention through social development and the stats are taken during the 80's, just after the Young Offenders act was implimented.
There is much more violence in the streets, on TV, video games, and music than every before. That discussion paper looked at violence at home. Kids do not have to see the violence at home to become violent. It is everywhere.
The bottom line is that we all have to make chooses in life and there are consequences with each disision. Lots of people have come from the slums, or poor family and succeeded in life through hard work and determination. To choose the road less traveled because it was the right road. They wanted to make a difference in their life.
Our youth need to learn how to make informed choses. If they do not learn that there are consequences for bad discisions then how will they know what is right and wrong.
I believe in grounding a child not beating them. But if they wish to walk out of my house and ignore the grounding, then I will physically stop them from going. This like giving them an option of being punished and not when they break the law. It has to be inforced by the parents, police, schools and community.
Books are no good to reference if you do not have the pratical real live experience to relate it to. You have to go into the trenches and really see what is going on. I have been there and chose the road less traveled. Friends I grew up with decided to chose the easy road and ended up on top for a little while until the law finally caught up with them. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:12:00 PM | Hmmm, I'm not really a youth anymore, but... I agree completely that they should be held fully accountable for their actions.
Drop the juvenile punishments to 16 and under, and deal with anyone over the age of 12 only slightly less harsh than an adult.
I truly believe if your kid stabs someone, aside from unknown mental disorders, you've failed as a parent. It's not hard to instill respect and morals into a child, but if the baby sitter was plugged into the wall in the living room and he grows up without any morals, we know where the problem came from.
The school really needs to look over policies as well, like how a retalliation hit can possibly justify worse punishment than the first blow.
Edit: Oh, and I don't know how others with first hand experience turned out, but I believe that damn-near daily wack to the head from my parents is the only thing that kept me in line.
I did a lot of stupid things outside of my parents knowledge that I likely would have gotten wacked for as well, but I knew I couldn't get away with assault without my parents knowledge. And the thought of going home to that scared me a hell of a lot more than it needed to.
I was suspended something like 4 times between grade 9 and 11 and every time was a retalliation hit, which didn't get me wacked thankfully. I never started a fight in my life even with "violence at home". I also happen to be a fan of metal music, I watch violent movies, and play violent video games.
Parents definitely shouldn't be able to beat there kids, but a smack across the head is enough to smarten most kids up. If your kids don't respect authority and rules, they should at least have the constant fear of the back of your hand, no matter where you are. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/9/2007 8:49:43 AM |
I just got finished reading the discussion paper on crime prevention through social development and the stats are taken during the 80's, just after the Young Offenders act was implimented.
There is much more violence in the streets, on TV, video games, and music than every before. That discussion paper looked at violence at home. Kids do not have to see the violence at home to become violent. It is everywhere.
A paper from the 80s? Discussing the YOA? Shortly after it was implemented *in 1984*?? You're basing your opinions on information that is 20 years old?
The info I pulled was from 2005 (since 2006 stats have not been compiled yet). *After* some 20 years of the YOA and the implementation of the YCJA.
Furthermore, knowledge in the social sciences is fluid. 20 years is an astonishingly long time; anyone working in the social sciences (such as sociologists and criminologists) will warn you much of that stuff is outdated, and you need to look at more current scholarship in order to evaluate stuff that old.
Books are no good to reference if you do not have the pratical real live experience to relate it to. You have to go into the trenches and really see what is going on. I have been there and chose the road less traveled.
Been there, done that - from both sides. I already knew a lot from the streets before I cracked open my first criminology text; it's given me what is sadly a rare perspective among academics.
Parents definitely shouldn't be able to beat there kids, but a smack across the head is enough to smarten most kids up. If your kids don't respect authority and rules, they should at least have the constant fear of the back of your hand, no matter where you are.
If your kids don't respect you, you're not going to change things by hitting them. Learning of any kind is best done in an atmosphere of respect, not fear.
sv | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/9/2007 6:08:10 PM | LOL!!!
Pardon me for being educated on the subject. :)
I love threads like this, because they make people really think about the world around them. There are a lot of issues dealing with young offenders which have been brought up here. Don't like the fact that I have so much to say? Fair enough. But at least look at it and think about how you can apply it to make a difference.
I said before, this is a community problem. It needs action from the community. And that's us, folks. So if violence among youth concerns you, what are you going to do about it?
sv | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/10/2007 11:57:18 AM | I agree violence is an extreme measure, and I've seen a lot of kids grow up in non-violent households that turned out to be great contributors, but I'm just saying from my childhood experience that as a child I didn't entirely understand why some rules existed.
If I don't see a good reason for a rule, I don't see why it should be in place, and I still believe that today. What I understood then was the consequence for breaking that rule, and that kept me from breaking it for the most part.
It wasn't that I was being taught with fear of those responsible for me, I was being taught to fear the consequences of breaking rules. That is the problem with young people now. They don't care about consequences. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/10/2007 12:14:24 PM | Has anyone read the Nunn commission report and its recommendations. The Nova scotia Government just announced today that they will be implimenting all of the recommendations. Does anyone thing that these recommendation will make a difference? | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/10/2007 1:54:25 PM |
That is the problem with young people now. They don't care about consequences.
I would disagree. And you pointed out the problem yourself. I would say the problem is that they have little or no understanding of why the rule is there in the big picture. When people understand rules, they're more likely to conform to them. Rules that benefit no-one aren't all that common. That's the big issue.....youth are taught to follow rules blindly (and heck, why not just avoid them then), not understand the (near & far) purposes behind them. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/10/2007 4:13:29 PM | Our justice system is just too lax. I know someone who robbed a convenient store, assaulting two employees in the process. He went to prison for three months, got out and put his girlfriend in the hospital a week later.
He was back out on the streets a month later and forced to do community service.
So... he two counts of assault and robbery, and all he got out of that was four months of free supervised living and some community service.
Why should anyone be worried about that as a consequence? I'm not saying he should have been stoned to death by the community, or that no one deserves a second chance, but what do criminals have to worry about? | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/11/2007 9:01:23 AM | I think one of the major changes that needs to be implimented from the Nunn Commission is that the term violent act needs to be changes to any act that threatens the safety or life of another needs to be put in place.
We are trying to make more severe sentences for crimes that use a gun on a federal level for adults. This needs to also apply to our youth.
I was speaking to a police officer the other day and she was dealing with youth that were shooting a air gun at other kids and adults. She said that if a youth can point a gun at another person and pull the trigger, the next time it could be a shot gun, or even a 9 mm.
semper_vera, have you had a chance to read the Nunn report?
These are some of the solutions that I suggest, does anyone have an other ideas??
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/11/2007 10:06:12 AM | "semper_vera, have you had a chance to read the Nunn report?"
I can't respond to you personally as I can't get past your e-mail restrictions.
I haven't read it yet - I noticed your reference to it earlier and decided not to post anything else on this thread until I have a chance to look at it. Hopefully, I'll get the chance to do so tonight.
Thanks for pointing it out!
sv | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/11/2007 11:03:42 AM | The Federal government just annonced today that they are putting 16 million dollars towards youth crime prevention at risk.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/01/11/3300562.html
These are local inititives as well
The Nova Scotia government just announced 3 million for youth crime prevention.
Lets make sure it goes to the right place. Express you opinion to your governments. | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/11/2007 8:49:42 PM |
That's the big issue.....youth are taught to follow rules blindly (and heck, why not just avoid them then), not understand the (near & far) purposes behind them.
So if I was just told not to kill but was not taught the near and far purpose of the rule to not kill, means it is ok for me to kill someone? | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/12/2007 12:46:43 AM | My nerves people , no need to get so bent out of shape . if society as a rule can't get all thsi straighten out , what makes u think this forum will ? Nitpicking at each other helps the situation none. Stay focused.. none of us want our children hurt or scared , and we all want youth held accountable for the crime .. so best if we work on achieving the comman goal , not fight each other on here . | |
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| Youth violence in Nova Scotia, Is it out of control
Posted: 1/12/2007 8:21:18 PM |
So if I was just told not to kill but was not taught the near and far purpose of the rule to not kill, means it is ok for me to kill someone
If you never learned a reason not to kill someone what's stopping you? We are descended from a hunter/gatherer species, and non-violence is not born into us. No one is born with morals or princinples. They are taught.
That was exactly the point sv was making(as well as what I had noted).
Observation and obediance of rules, regulations, and policies rely on the individuals themselves understanding why they are in place, and understanding the benefits to adhering to them. | |
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