|
|
|
|
|
adze1
|
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 26 | |
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 7:48:18 PM | Its true that many women insist on paying their share. About a third of them (in my own humble experience). Usually, I find that there is a short moment of awkwardness when any kind of payment needs to be made. Like no one knows what is SUPPOSED to happen, or what the other person is expecting of them.
There are a lot of social factors there... she may insist on paying to communicate that he shouldn't expect sex out of obligation... She may NOT offer to pay if she is afraid of offending his manhood by doing so (some guys take that stuff very seriously... apparantly)...
Sometimes I'll pay the bill and let her leave the tip (unless she's a bad tipper). Sometimes I let her pretend to pay half (ie. 1/2 of the total before taxes, tips and cab rides).
This question is a part of the struggle which woman-kind faces in this suddenly drastically different world of post feminist society. Women have finally got the social respect they've been fighting for, to stand alone against the harsh world as individuals and self providers... but so many of you can't help having your cake and eating it too. I can't blame you for wanting the respect of feminism, and yet retain the perks of men's chivalry, but at least ADMIT TO IT!
It's like, okay, women are not baby-making housewives by default, and should not be treated as such. Most every man in the western world is on board with that. Really, we get it. But its not as if you've given us any kind of coherant idea of what a woman is INSTEAD! Honestly, I don't think many of you have any idea, and how could you? | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 8:00:23 PM | It's one person with a bad experience or two. Anyone ever consider it's him asking out the type of women who're only interested in his wallet? The only common denominator is the type of women and him. Couldn't be a pattern, now, could it...NAW.
I've been on both sides of this, asked someone out, insisted it was my treat and they yank the bill out of my hand and act insulted. So go figure...anytime I've been out even on a first meet, if I get there first, I pay for whatever I've ordered, if not I reach for my purse only to get the raised eyebrow and "what are you doing". You can't have it both ways, so if you can't accept a woman who expects to be treated as an equal, don't get insulted if we try to pay, or reach for our wallet and act like it's an insult to your manhood.
When you plan a date, either one, if you don't communicate that upfront, then don't make paying the tab a scene. It's a real downer and almost a guarantee there won't be another date!!!
Thank goodness I don't have to deal with that anymore, I have my partner, and my equal who I personally consider my better half! To the ladies, if you find someone like my darling man, consider you've just won the man lottery!!  | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 8:27:29 PM | Both parties want to meet so I will generally offer to pay for half the bill...but why does that first date have to be somewhere impressive? There are some fairly cheap first dates that make it easy for both parties to pick up their expenses or to moderate it until you get a feel for each other.
Examples: Starbucks (quick mini-dates, unless you go on a game night where they play board games), Bowling (Bad shoes for everyone, whats not to love), Community events (concerts in the park, pack a picnic, chili cook-offs, etc...alot of free stuff out there that is a blast), Tom's Farms (great place off of the 15 freeway, Tamascle Canyon Road? pond, furniture, farmers market, craft fair on weekends, but great outdoor atmosphere)...Use your imagination and run with it? | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 8:40:08 PM | OP...when I have asked someone out first...
I have paid the bill!
And why not. I'm the one who asked...(only cause they're to shy most of the time)
I have NO problem in paying for something that I encouraged.
Why some women think that they should never have to fork over some of their hard
earned cash is beyond me.
Sorry...I really don't understand that one either. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:11:34 PM | [I hear everyday that women want to be treated equally. I have a good job and usually the girls that I date have good job or sometimes better. But everytime the check comes out who is the one that pays.]
Being treated as an equal does not mean that you divide everything in equal halves. “You do half the dishes and I’ll do the other half” “You open the door for me this time I’ll get it next time” “I’ll pay for the first date, you pay for the second” This is not treating someone like an equal, this is dividing actions into equal parts. There is nothing wrong with this as long as you and your partner both agree.
Treating someone as an equal means you know that you are not above them or better than them, you are equal to them and treat them with equal respect.
If you believe women should pay part of the time, tell them that from the beginning. If they don’t think they should, maybe they are just not your type. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:23:08 PM | I personally see it this way...
I'll ask the kind lady, before going out, what her preference is regarding meal payment. If she explains that I have to pay or she'll not respect me, then I take her to the local 7-11 and buy a big bag of Doritos for each of us, and I buy myself a big soda that I might share with her, but never do.
Why? Because she deserves that kind of treatment, for the simple reason that she expects so much better treatment simply because she's a woman.
If she says she'd pay half or all, I politely answer depending on my own financial situation, and if she asks what my financial situation is, then I make a pit stop at 7-11 before dropping her off. Otherwise, and this is the important part, she'll probably enjoy a dinner at one of the best restaurants in San Jose, completely paid for by me regardless of my answer before, the money spent on which would have come from me slavishly working minimum wage as I do, saving for the last two months.
Then, I'd make sure she had every pampering she doesn't ask for, for that very reason, which makes her deserving.
You don't like that, ladies? Too bad. You don't deserve a man of my caliber anyway.
~ David | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:25:21 PM |
No, not gay. Here I didn't take the low road by name calling, personal attacks but your rebuttal include a personal attack. Thats providing good infomation to this question.
exactly | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:26:23 PM | | You can tell a lot about of a woman if she doesn't offer to go dutch. It's one of those initial gestures of "compromise". Of course, it is gentlemanly to offer to pay for both the meals... but us students are poor, haha. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:34:01 PM |
You're kidding, right? You're the guy, do the guy thing. Pick her up, take her out and be a gentleman while you're doing it. Chances are she'll offer to pay half the tab, but if you're truly a nice guy you'll decline that offer. And I think you're chances are better at getting a second date if you practice a little chivalry.
sounds nicely scripted, just like the good ole 1950s media would provide as a programming standard. Oh what typical mold humans have been formed into, like clay brains baked into a permanent mindset. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:39:22 PM |
I've been on both sides of this, asked someone out, insisted it was my treat and they yank the bill out of my hand and act insulted.
hah yeah been there before, sometimes a lady will just make you accept it, i one time tried to pry the check from my girl...didnt work..it was cool though =)
there is certain satisfaction a person can get from doing somethign like that, i dont think it would be right to rob them from it.
i never make a scene about it, i always have my Glock under the table j/k but if she wants it she can have it, but i usualyl reach for it first tbh | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 9:54:38 PM |
You're the guy, do the guy thing. Pick her up, take her out and be a gentleman while you're doing it. Chances are she'll offer to pay half the tab, but if you're truly a nice guy you'll decline that offer. And I think you're chances are better at getting a second date if you practice a little chivalry.
The "guy thing" is being a polite, amusing, pleasant date. The "girl (gag!) thing" is also being a polite, amusing, pleasant date. "Chivalry" has nothing to do with the cheque at a restaurant.
The ONLY way one person should be responsible for the entire tab of an evening/event is if it's spelled out in advance that this is going to by his/my treat. That can happen more on one side than the other, if one person is richer and still wants to go to expensive places, but it's NOT an obligation.
Still, it's another case of to each their own. If a man is offended by my attitude (and from reading threads on this topic, many would be), they'd be best off dating someone else. No problemo. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 10:01:11 PM | I don't mind paying in the very early stages of a courtship. But I get sick and tired of a woman telling me how successful she is and how much money she's making, blah blah....then when it's time to cough up at the movies or whatever and going dutch isn't out of the question...."oh I'll pay next time OK?"...Next time comes around...same deal. Well that's enough to let me know where they're coming from. There are plenty of women out there like that and they can stay out there as far as I'm concerned. If they are working, independant women of the modern era, they can pay their own damn way I say! lol  | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 10:08:20 PM | To categorically say ALL women do the DOUBLE standard ALL the time would only be said by someone who has very LIMITED experience in today's reality. There are plenty of threads on this topic already, I don't think women need to be insulted by such a blatantly, inaccurate statement.
If I invite someone to dinner, I don't mind paying, but we usually take turns and nobody makes a big deal out of it. If a man asks me out, I expect him to pick up the tab as he usually picks the time and place. I have never been asked to pay for half of the bill, it's just not done around here, thank goodness. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 10:09:50 PM | ouch. lol. Like Bucs girl said, the minute you generalize you have lost. Not all women expect men to pay and some women prefer to spend their own money so they can remain on even footing in the beginning of a relationship. Some women are old fashioned and wont' ask a guy out. Most women will however treat their man once they are in a relationship but your talking dating here and like it or not, a precedent was set long before you arrived on the scene. My advice, don't generalize. If your looking for a modern woman who isn't afraid to take the inituitive and ask you out, plan the date, pick you up and pay then just say so in your profile. You may not get tons of email but it just takes that one and at the very least you're being honest.
Me... I only date men who will buy me diamonds (its a baseball joke..get it?)  | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 10:48:58 PM | I am sick to death of this argument, as well as the guys who claim all the women are rapacious gold diggers. Since you are complaining that they are not asking you out, apparently you pick them, and you ask them out. Please do not blame the rest of womanhood for your shallow or irresponsible choices. No one ever said you had to spend a boatload of money on a woman. If you have spent $100 bucks on dinner for a woman and had her dump you, think of the women who thought the men were going to stick around AFTER they had sex. Would you rather be $100 poorer, or feeling hurt and betrayed and asking yourself why?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The day that women can propose to a guy and not be considered pushy and aggressive.
The day that a guy who is assertive, starts being called a b*tch, and the women who assert themselves are called "go getters."
The day that guys stop asking a woman who is irritable when if she has PMS or her period and asks if she is in a bad mood, just like guys ask each other when they are in a bad mood.
The day a guy actually splits the household chores 50/50 with his wife who also works full time.
The day a the same amount of guys happily give up a career it has taken them 10 or 15 years to build to stay home and raise the children.
The day a guy changes exactly half of the diapers of any child he has produced.
The day when most guys stops spending all of their time trying to figure out how to get into our pants.
The day many guys stop treating women like sperm receptacles to be used and discarded, and guys who see other guys doing this socially ostracize them like women do when we see women using men.
That is the day we end the double standard boys.
In other words, equality is a two way street. Treat us equally and we will step up to the plate. Treat us like shallow whores and we will become them. Treat us like ladies, then we will act as ladies and be loving, nurturing, kind, loyal and supportive. You don't get the use the highway without the toll. Don't expect the respect you think you deserve, earn it. It's not an entitlement.
When most real, decent, honest and kind women are looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with, they are looking for real, decent, honest and kind men. Not a bunch of whining little pansies who scream about the unfairness of life.
Hint: A guy who complains about paying for his dates, is going to be a real butthead when it comes to a woman staying home and raising kids. He is going to make her life miserable over every cent she is not earning and spends. He is going to freak out every month around bill paying time. We will never, ever hear the end of it. Do not imagine we are stupid enough not to know this. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 10:53:17 PM | All I can say is I hope I contribute to the countdown to that day.
I plan to, in case any of you are interested ;-)
Well spoken, a truth that needed words and was given them, Good Show!
~ David | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 10:57:27 PM | Guy
Some truths that I've discovered:
Men show their interest in a woman via the pocketbook... there is no getting away from this fact.
if a man takes me out and doesn't foot the bill...i am likely with a gay friend.
if a man THAT I HAVE ASKED OUT foots the bill.. i am taken aback and pleased with his manliness.
if a man THAT HAS ASKED ME OUT expects me to pay half the bill... well... i've never actually experienced this...
why would a man ask a woman out without fully expecting to play the man role?
i mean..we play the woman role... we use the female washroom... we smile, laugh, and make you feel masculine...
why not want a woman to be treated like a lady? do u hate women? | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 11:02:58 PM |
A guy who complains about paying for his dates, is going to be a real butthead when it comes to a woman staying home and raising kids. He is going to make her life miserable over every cent she is not earning and spends. He is going to freak out every month around bill paying time. We will never, ever hear the end of it. Do not imagine we are stupid enough not to know this.
Not necessarily. A guy could be like this whether he's cool being used endlessly as the one who HAS to pay, during the dating phases of his life, or not. He could also be SENSIBLE and expect equal treatment and responsibilities in the dating world and be 100-per-cent cool with shouldering the majority of the financial responsibility in a relationship, once children are involved, if that's what both parties decide to do.
Not to mention that a guy who INSISTS on paying for all dates could also turn out to be a complainer later.
I simply don't buy that comparison. We're talking about dinner with a relative stranger. It's supposed to be for the enjoyment of both, not a test of future financial compromises.
I'd personally have less respect for a man who ALWAYS pays. Stop doing that. It's stupid. Women can pay their own way. | |
|
| |
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 11:23:33 PM |
the only way to stop negativity is to not react to it.
That's sweet! You're new here, aren't you? Ha!
You're right, course. But sometimes I feel compelled to say what I believe, even if I know some people will think I'm a jerk. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 11:29:14 PM |
I personally see it this way...
I'll ask the kind lady, before going out, what her preference is regarding meal payment. If she explains that I have to pay or she'll not respect me, then I take her to the local 7-11 and buy a big bag of Doritos for each of us, and I buy myself a big soda that I might share with her, but never do.
Why? Because she deserves that kind of treatment, for the simple reason that she expects so much better treatment simply because she's a woman.
If she says she'd pay half or all, I politely answer depending on my own financial situation, and if she asks what my financial situation is, then I make a pit stop at 7-11 before dropping her off. Otherwise, and this is the important part, she'll probably enjoy a dinner at one of the best restaurants in San Jose, completely paid for by me regardless of my answer before, the money spent on which would have come from me slavishly working minimum wage as I do, saving for the last two months.
Then, I'd make sure she had every pampering she doesn't ask for, for that very reason, which makes her deserving.
You don't like that, ladies? Too bad. You don't deserve a man of my caliber anyway.
~ David Well said. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 11:50:26 PM | | David gives me hope for the male gender every day. I am hoping he is still single when my daughter is old enough to date... I would say when she is 21, I just might let her. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 11:56:21 PM | "Why do women always do the double standard?"
---------------------------------------------------
Geez, you HAD to know what kind of response you'd elicit starting with THAT sweeping generalization. Sounds like you've already decided that that's the way it is so... what's the point in any of us answering???
Still, it's been great seeing how across the board everyone's responses have been. Might I suggest that some of the differences in pay/not-pay are regional?
I grew up in Minnesota where most dates are dutch. It's just kind of the way things are done. (Or at least in the middle-class suburbia in which I grew up)... When a guy buys you a drink up there, he's expecting something (maybe an introduction, a conversation, sometimes more...??)...
Imagine my astonishment when I went on my first date here in Houston and had a guy become offended when I pulled out my wallet. He was actually pissed-off. And I never heard from him again.
I'm an independent, professional woman. I've paid my own way (and often, others) now for 15 years. And I have to admit, I get a little thrill when a guy asks me out to dinner and pays. It's totally a treat for me. With my guy friends, we've worked out an understanding. One of them, when he takes me out, even just as friends, he pays. I've made a point of inviting him out several times and saying it's "my treat" to let him know I appreciate it. Another male friend and I always go dutch. There are times when one or the other of us might be strapped for cash and we'll pay for each other. No biggie.
I will ALWAYS offer to pay my half of the check + tip. Always. If he insists on picking up the check, I offer to pay for the movie tickets or the concessions or a round of drinks. If he insists on paying for those too, that's cool. If he accepts my offer, that's cool too.
Once again, communication really works in this instance. Get clear on both sides what the expectations are for how the check will be handled. Hopefully y'all have talked enough with each other before meeting that you'll have some idea how they will react in the moment of the check being placed on the table/bar/counter. | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/8/2007 11:57:22 PM | Well! It really depends who asked whom on the date. If you're the one that asked the woman out on a date it makes sense that you should pay for the check.
I think when you go to restuarants the waiter will usually assume that man is paying for the date therefore will ask the man to pay for the check.
 | |
|
| Why do women always do the double standard?
Posted: 1/9/2007 5:49:39 AM | My own preference on this subject is to always be prepared to pay , cash, including the tip. When my date offers to split or pay hers , I grab her offer quickly !
In all fairness to those who insist on paying everything ( men mostly) , men of my generation and prior are socially indoctrinated( can you hear Dad talking now?) to offer,even insist, as the right thing to do. As a father, I've guided my son differently with common sense and ,hopefully, the ability to change with times in these matters. The rules of etiquette change, as we do,and I personally love this one! Now , can I please have your leftovers, hunnie ? just slide the plate over here while you take the cash to the counter, I'll just be a few seconds..munch,munch !;) | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
