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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:10:18 PM |
Tony Packo's sells hot dogs, I don't believe you can get any sandwiches there.
Yeah well they are famous for their hot dogs...but in fact you can get sandwiches there and at the time I was thinking of several M*A*S*H* episodes involving Klinger and salami...an innocent extrapolation considering the fact that he helped spread their "message" outside of Toledo.
The son of Hungarian immigrants, Tony Packo was a native East Toledoan. Tony was born in 1908, just a stone's throw from Consaul and Genesee streets. Tony Packo started out as a factory worker. That all changed when, in 1932, he and his wife got a $100 loan from relatives. No small feat, mind you, for this was during the hardest of hard times, the first years of the Great Depression. That same year he opened a sandwich and ice cream shop just around the corner from the place he was born. Tony had learned the restaurant business working for his older brother John, who owned a place across Consaul Street in what is now Tony Packo's parking lot. There was no beer at Packo's that first year. Prohibition would not be lifted until 1933.
Because Tony was Hungarian-American and lived in a Hungarian neighborhood, Tony’s creation was called the Hungarian hot dog. Until Toledo-born Tony invented it, there was no such thing as a Hungarian hot dog, say those who know the Old Country's food.
Packo's food was an instant hit in the neighborhood. Within months of opening, Tony and Rose knocked out a wall and expanded their first shop, in what is now called the Consaul Tavern. By 1935, success had taken them to the point where they could buy a building of their own. They purchased the wedge-shaped establishment at Front and Consaul. The building houses part of today's Tony Packo's, but with a few more additions. The restaurant is still run by the Packo family…Tony and Rose's children; Tony Jr. and Nancy, and Nancy's son, Robin.
The M*A*S*H ConnectionThe words that came out of Jamie Farr's mouth on Feb. 24, 1976 would put Tony Packo's in the spotlight. Farr, a native Toledoan himself, appeared in the television show "M*A*S*H," playing Corporal Max Klinger, a crazy medical corpsman who was also from Toledo. In the episode that made Packo's future, a man playing a television newsman talked to Klinger about his hometown. Farr wrote a little local color into his reply. The lines read, "If you're ever in Toledo, Ohio, on the Hungarian side of town, Tony Packo's got the greatest Hungarian hot dogs. Thirty-five cents..." Thus a new epoch began. The name appealed to the scriptwriters, who wrote Packo's into five subsequent episodes. In one show, the mobile hospital unit asked Packo's to send sausage casings to be used in a blood-filtering machine. Packo's was also mentioned in the two-and-a-half-hour final episode in 1983.
Which all comes back to the point that Jesus, I submit, looked more like Jamie Farr than Jim Caviezel and thus the reference...
Sorry if I somehow offended your Toledo sensibilities  | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:46:36 PM | The "person" in Revelation is not a person at all. The Spirit in the book Revelation is white, white. There are no humans that are as white as snow. The color white is representative of holiness which means to be without blemish, blameless and perfect in the eyes of God.
Anyway, to answer your question, I dont think the issue of color is anything to take personal. Of course Jesus, in His appearance, looked like a man of middle-eastern decent with dark hair and brown skin but, people envision what is familiar to them. People naturally gravitate toward others that are similar to them. There is no sin in that unless others are intentionally excluded and the "in" crowd is favored over and above any others.
I do see what you are saying though. When I see the figures I just shake my head and say to myself "people will be people...imperfect, half blind and deaf". Thank God we have His perfect word to guide and protect us. Maybe we should be more concerned about what it says that what people say or do. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:54:55 PM | earthboy.
Here are some answers to your requests, and studies of similarities with Horus.
Good reading!
I don't know which laws your Lord came to fulfill, but for sure, his loving and psychic presence produced and resulted in rivers of bloodshed, a hateful Church, hatred and killing among Christians sects, progroms and holocaust against Jews, for 2000 years.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen046.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/akhenaton
http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/index.html
http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/
http://www.truthbeknown.com/ | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/12/2007 4:27:54 AM | Yoke has a good point.... People will gravitate towards the familiar.  | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/12/2007 2:29:30 PM |
I have yet to see a picture of Jesus as blonde hair and blue eyes - and I have attended Catholic church for 10 years now
straight from the Vatican website to you, if you dont believe that do a google image search and see JC in all his anglo glory.
http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm
the pic of jesus standing with marry is definatly a blond depection we all know and love.
that it's a gimmick that derived from pagan sources
which were plagerized from Pagan soruces
Read his parables
which were plagerized from Buddah
who was born (OF A VIRGIN),
1 November, 1950, Pope Pius XII declared infallibly that the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was a dogma of the Catholic Faith. Most popely goodness. It's amazing that she turned into a virgin in the 1950's. Now that's a miricle! too bad Isis did that over 10,000 year previous.
The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit - all one in the trinity
again, stolen from the Egyptians.
why are people afraid if JC looked like a Jewish kid? | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/12/2007 8:03:00 PM |
why are people afraid if JC looked like a Jewish kid?
For the same reason that some women put their hands on their purses when a black man gets in to the elevator with them. It's simply fear of the unknown and wanting desperately to believe that God looks just like them. It's not right, but sadly, it's real. And a shame. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/12/2007 11:21:31 PM | Oh yeah, you can get sandwiches at Tony Packo's. You can eat alot of things besides hot dogs there. I live an hour north of Toledo and have been to Packo's. It is worth the trip, no matter how far you live from there. I can buy Packo's hot dogs and alot of other Packo products at local markets here. Are they sold everywhere or just in this local area?
(Sorry to be off topic). | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/12/2007 11:42:38 PM | I've never seen a depiction of Satan as having African or Asian features. :)
I'm more skeptical of the common depiction of Jesus wearing a beard. There's no evidence this was true -- even less evidence than Jesus actually existed. But there he is in nearly every Christian church sporting a beard. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 2:23:50 AM | Greetings,
Eye see this thread has been going on for quite some time. I would have to agree w/ what Alpina said about "Jesus" ever existing at all. From all of my years of study, the only documentation of his existence is biblical. I've even traveled to Africa and the so-called "Middle East" and it was the same over there. According to the description of him in the "new testament", "hair like lamb's wool....feet like burnt brass", would make him darker than I am. We all know that polished brass has a brown hue, now imagine how it would be burnt.
We must all remember, according to history, much of what they presently call the "middle east" was all part of Africa. The early Europeans were also people of color. Even looking at art from that era you see many of the Greeks, Romans, and so on (look at the Spartan king in "300") who looked darker or olive in complexion.
To add more about if he ever existed.....it goes back to the age old question of, "What's in a name"? And we should know that names have meanings. Someone brought up language in an earlier post I read, which is also important when researching a people's history. Much of what's in Christian doctrine is fairly new. Just check out the eucimenical councils that were held in Europe by the popes and kings.
Anyway, I happened to find an old Webster's dictionary copyrighted around 1922 or 1925 and the definition I read for Jesus was...."deceiver, prevaricator, cunning person" [Latin]. Digging into language again, if he were Hebrew, how could his name be Jesus when there is no letter "J" in Hebrew or Aramaic? Early semitic languages didn't have the letter either, until after the 18th century when Arabic adopted the letter into the alphabet. With the "new testament" being written totally in Greek, not even the Greek language contains the letter "J". Recording lineage, early Hebrew historians used the fathers as the point of reference for tracing back. With that being the case, how could Jesus be from the line of David when it was thru Joseph who that family tree extends?
To make note on the whole "immaculate conception" theory, well, the biblical story falls apart when reading it, granted you take the time to read it carefully. First of all, why would God have a child w/ a woman who has a husband, yet say committing adultry is wrong? "Virgin" is also a mistranslation b/c I read some time back that the word "alma" (means "young woman") was the word that applied to Mary. To go further, we all read about how the Greeks & Romans traveled back & forth to Africa to be initiated into the so-called "mystery systems" and learned about the gods/goddesses and sun/son (hint) worship. One of the main trinities being Ausar (Osiris), Auset (Isis/Ysis), & Heru (Horus). The stories of god (Ausar/Osiris) being the father of the the son and the madonna (Auset/Isis) being his mother and ressurection stem from these mythologies. Later the Greeks & Romans took that knowledge and made their owns gods/goddesses that they could identify w/. This didn't mean that they changed the "color" of the dieties. Isis for instance, was still worshiped as an African diety. Also to add, christianity adopted much of their belief system from Greek & Roman mythology. The "I.C." story is also traced back to the story of Zeus & Io (a "virgin" woman), who had a son who's name is above all names (just squeeze Zeus & Io together...but switch them around first....Iozeus....hmmm..).
It cracks me up when some refuse to want to talk about Jesus being a man of color. Some admit it even when they claim it doesn't matter. My thing is, if this is suppose to be your savior, what's wrong if it is a "black" man? The same thing can happen to a racist/prejudiced "white" person of today....being the case of your life being saved in a drastic situation by a person of color....lol. No matter how you slice all of this.....all roads lead back to Africa....just ask "Lucy"....LOL.
Can I get an Amen (RA) [Sun god worshipped in Tama Ra/Kemet/Egypt]
YES! When you say Amen after your prayers, you call on Amen Ra.....lol.
I still have plenty on sun/son worship....
Suggested reading: "The World's 16 Crucified Saviors" - Kersey Graves
Peace!
Hellz.....why not add this since we're talking about Jesus....lol. It's about "Christmas" and how that's dealing w/ sun/son worship as well.....
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there were some people who lived in a kingdom called Rome. This civilization had already advanced enough to where they had their own calendar. One fateful late December it got verrrrry cloudy during the time when the sun would move toward it's spring solstice. It got so dark, the people thought the sun had died and the world was going to end. They knew the sun was the sustainer of life, so what would they do w/o their precious sun. Suddenly, the clouds gave way, clearing a path to beam thru. The people were amazed and extremely happy to see their sun ressurected. So they had a festival and named it Saturnalia. This was a festival where there was plenty of food, drink, and all the sex you could have w/ the same or opposite sex. There was also people giving each other gifts. Some say that later, candles were given to put in your window to help commemorate the days (Dec. 25 & 26) they set aside for years to come. Later it was renamed Christmas. 
Now I wonder if there's a tie in w/ the ressurection story (that happened at sun-rise) w/ a goddess of rebirth, spring, bunnies, colored eggs, and so on.......hmmmm...
I've rambled on enough.....LOL I guess god is gonna strike me down.....lol.
Zeus w/ his lightening bolt.....taken from the story of the Orisha..... Shango, who used his lightening bolt to punish. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 5:13:49 AM | This is really awful to admit, I enter a home and see an “asian” Jesus; depicted in the last supper. I smile inside and carry on drinking green tea.
Going home I finally “wonder” how could I have got life so wrong; believing Jesus was blue eyed and white?
Seven years later I have the fortitude to ask the ex...he also states I've never seen it that way (oh he pays for the christian upbringing of our children)...just maybe we should be more social? | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 7:08:05 AM | actually, koolemdee, Jesus did exist, but there were 8 of them.
Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach (aka 'Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach'), part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom' and Homeric-style heroes.
Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (106-79 BC), one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings. Imprudently, this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophesy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree – and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect.
Jesus ben Ananias. Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’.Arrested and flogged by the Romans, he was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult.
Jesus ben Saphat. In the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee, this Jesus had led the rebels in Tiberias. When the city was about to fall to Vespasian’s legionaries he fled north to Tarichea on the Sea of Galilee.
Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’). It did him no good. When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds.
Jesus ben Thebuth. A priest who, in the final capitulation of the upper city in 69AD, saved his own skin by surrendering the treasures of the Temple, which included two holy candlesticks, goblets of pure gold, sacred curtains and robes of the high priests. The booty figured prominently in the Triumph held for Vespasian and his son Titus.
Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would (quite literally) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history.
So we can take our pick of would-be Jesuses. IMO, i think the bible Jesus was a combo of all of these JCs. But my vote is for Jesus ben Ananias who was killed by a rock from a catapult. He with most sin, often casts the first stones
All of these Jesuses have been well documented.
so we can take our pick! | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 8:26:10 AM |
actually, koolemdee, Jesus did exist, but there were 8 of them.
Nine, if you count Chris "Jesus" Ferguson, the world-class poker player.  | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 8:30:52 AM | | We all have some 'color' to our flesh if we are breathing..depends on our lineage. What the hell difference does it make? If a person is a fine example to other human beings, race has no bearing. The Catholic church, as one who was raised with all the Catholic 'trappings', is and has always been a source of manipulation for the masses who gather like lemmings to the cliff (apologies to my folks on this one). | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 12:06:58 PM |
actually, koolemdee, Jesus did exist, but there were 8 of them.
Nine, if you count Chris "Jesus" Ferguson, the world-class poker player.
well 8 Jesus' around the time when then "actual" JC was alledgly running around. Though it would be cool if JC was a poker player. Maybe then the church wouldnt have to ask for money all the time. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/13/2007 2:33:44 PM | Though it would be interesting to see you bring up specifics, I don't see much correlation between specifically Christian practices and Babylon
Ummm....wrong
The christian myth is directly realted to earlier stories
Egypt- Osiris, Isis and Horus
In all probability the first religion was Sun-worship. Nothing could have been more natural. Light was life and warmth and love. The sun was the fireside of the world. The sun was the "all-seeing" -- the "Sky Father." Darkness was grief and death, and in the shadows crawled the serpents of despair and fear.
The sun was a great warrior, fighting the hosts of Night. Apollo was the sun, and he fought and conquered the serpent of Night. Agni, the generous, who loved the lowliest and visited the humblest, was the sun. He was the god of fire, and the crossed sticks that by friction leaped into flame were his emblem. It was said that, in spite of his goodness, he devoured his father and mother, the two pieces of wood being his parents. Baldur was the sun. He was in love with the Dawn -- a maiden -- he deserted her and traveled through the heavens alone. At the twilight they met, were reconciled, and the drops of dew were the tears of joy they shed.
Krishna was the sun. At his birth the Ganges thrilled from its source to the sea. All the trees, the dead as well as the living, burst into leaf and bud and flower.
Hercules was a sun-god.
Jonah the same, rescued from the fiends of Night and carried by the fish through the under world. Samson was a sun-god. His strength was in his hair -- in his beams. He was shorn of his strength by Delilah, the shadow -- the darkness. So, Osiris, Bacchus, Mithra, Hermes, Buddha, Quelzalcoatle, Prometheus, Zoroaster, Perseus, Codom Lao-tsze Fo-hi, Horus and Rameses were all sun-gods.
All these gods had gods for fathers and all their mothers were virgins.
The births of nearly all were announced by stars.
When they were born there was celestial music, voices declared that a blessing had come upon the earth.
When Buddha was born, the celestial choir sang: "This day is born for the good of men Buddha, and to dispel the darkness of their ignorance -- to give joy and peace to the world."
Krishna was born in a cave, and protected by shepherds. Bacchus, Apollo, Mithra and Hermes were all born in caves. Buddha was born in an inn -- according to some, under a tree.
Tyrants sought to kill all of these gods when they were babes.
When Krishna was born, a tyrant killed the babes of the neighborhood.
Buddha was the child of Maya, a virgin, in the kingdom of Madura. The king arrested Maya before the child was born; imprisoned her in a tower. During the night when the child was born, a great wind wrecked the tower, and carried mother and child to a place of safety. The next morning the king sent his soldiers to kill the babes, and when they came to Buddha and his mother, the babe appeared to be about twelve years of age, and the soldiers passed on.
So Typhon sought in many ways to destroy the babe Horus. The king pursued the infant Zoroaster. Cadmus tried to kill the infant Bacchus.
All of these gods were born on the 25th of December.
Nearly all were worshiped by "wise men."
All of them fasted for forty days.
All met with a violent death.
All rose from the dead.
The history of these gods is the history of our Christ. He had a god for a father, a virgin for a mother. He was born in a manger, or a cave -- on the 25th of December. His birth was announced by angels. He was worshiped by wise men, guided by a star. Herod, seeking his life, caused the death of many babes. Christ fasted for forty days. So, it rained for forty days before the flood -- Moses was on Mt. Sinai for forty days. The temple had forty pillars and the Jews wandered in the wilderness for forty years. Christ met with a violent death, and rose from the dead.
These things are not accidents -- not coincidences. Christ was a sun-god. All religions have been born of sun-worship. To-day, when priests pray, they shut their eyes. This is a survival of sun- worship. When men worshiped the sun, they had to shut their eyes. afterwards, to flatter idols, they pretended that the glory of their faces was more than the eyes could bear.
In the religion of our day there is nothing original. All of its doctrines, its symbols and ceremonies are but the survivals of creeds that perished long ago. Baptism is far older than Christianity -- than Judaism. The Hindus, the Egyptians, the Greeks and Romans had holy water. The eucharist was borrowed from the Pagans. Ceres was the goddess of the fields, Bacchus the god of the vine. At the harvest festival they made cakes of wheat and said: "These are the flesh of the goddess." They drank wine and cried: "This is the blood of our god."
The cross has been a symbol for many thousands of years. It was a symbol of immortality -- of life, of the god Agni, the form of the grave of a man. An ancient people of Italy, who lived long before the Romans, long before the Etruscans, so long that not one word of their language is known, used the cross, and beneath that emblem, carved on stone, their dead still rest. In the forests of Central America, ruined temples have been found, and on the walls the cross with the bleeding victim. On Babylonian cylinders is the impression of the cross. The Trinity came from Egypt. Osiris, Isis and Horus were worshiped thousands of years before our Father, Son and Holy Ghost were thought of. So the Tree of Life grew in India, China and among the Aztecs long before the Garden of Eden was planted. Long before our Bible was known, other nations had their sacred books, temples and altars, sacrifices, ceremonies and priests. The "Fall of Man" is far older than our religion, and so are the "Atonement" and the Scheme of Redemption.
In our blessed religion there is nothing new, nothing original.
Among the Egyptians the cross was a symbol of the life to come. And yet the first religion was, and all religions growing out of that, were naturally produced. Every brain was a field in which Nature sowed the seeds of thought. The rise and set of sun, the birth and death of day, the dawns of silver and the dusks of gold, the wonders of the rain and snow, the shroud of Winter and the many colored robe of Spring, the lonely moon with nightly loss or gain, the serpent lightning and the thunder's voice, the tempest's fury and the zephyr's sigh, the threat of storm and promise of the bow, cathedral clouds with dome and spire, earthquake and strange eclipse, frost and fire, the snow-crowned mountains with their tongues of flame, the fields of space sown thick with stars, the wandering comets hurrying past the fixed and sleepless sentinels of night, the marvels of the earth and air, the perfumed flower, the painted wing, the waveless pool that held within its magic breast the image of the startled face, the mimic echo that made a record in the viewless air, the pathless forests and the boundless seas, the ebb and flow of tides -- the slow, deep breathing of some vague and monstrous life -- the miracle of birth, the mystery of dream and death, and over all the silent and immeasurable dome. These were the warp and woof, and at the loom sat Love and Fancy, Hope and Fear, and wove the wondrous tapestries whereon we find pictures of gods and fairy lands and all the legends that were told when Nature rocked the cradle of the infant world.
I have more on this..another time maybe.
Yeshua was a common hebrew name at the time. The historical Jesus, if one did exist as a single person, would have been semitic (which is still caucasian) descended from Abraham who came from Babylonia, actually Babylon - the main city. So he could have been originally Sumerian or Akkadian or a mix of both.
I love history! | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/14/2007 11:55:19 AM |
The Bible itself tells us what race Yahshua is. He was an Adamic man, just like the rest of the "white" race. The words "man", and "Adam" in the story of creation are both translated from the same Hebrew word:
119 'adam (aw-dam') to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
120 'adam (aw-dawm') from 119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.)
The race described as being created in Genesis is the "white" race. Yahsuha is a descendant of Adam through Noah, Shem, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Judah.
An "Adamic" man? What is the DNA result for that going to look like? Fortunately they existed so long ago that no DNA is likely to be found and we can imagine them to be anything we like, right?
What mainstream scholar has published a paper on the Adamic man. What you are talking about here is racialist nonsense that is has been debunked so many times over it doesn't even bear repeating in a public forum. No serious scientist supports it...only perhaps those fringe kooks who gather inside a historical revisionist meeting of jackbooted goosesteppers who refer to "black and brown people" usually with the epithet of "mud races" would take it seriously. Outside of fringe religious groups, there is no such animal as the Adamic man. It is wishful thinking that hearkens back to notions of a master race.
No linguist would actually take what you have done seriously either. You can't take one word and one meaning for a word and apply it broadly to describe an entire peoples appearance just because it helps fit your pet theory. That is the worst kind of logical fallacy. You have absolutely no proof to support such a theory. But why start now?
Try science. Oops sorry...I forgot...why start now?
When you look at geography and history, you find that the middle east, including Egypt was the origin of the "white" people who would emigrate to Europe and Russia, especially over the Caucus mountains, thus the term "Caucasian". Just because the area has since been populated by "black" and "brown" people doesn't mean they have always been the inhabitants of the region. That would be like saying "North America is inhabited by "white" people, therefore North America has always been inhabited by "white" people."
Here again, wide misleading brush strokes. Egypt the "origin" of white people??? Absolutely no historical proof for this claim whatsoever, never mind that it is ridiculously off topic...that WOULD be like saying North America has always inhabited by white people or imagining the Adamic Race was white and using only the Bible as proof...you wouldn't let the Mormons squeak by for their lack of evidence, and no one else would certainly extend the same ridiculous pass to you.
Let's go ask Dr. Zahi Hawass what he thinks of the idea that Egypt was the origin of white people...I'm sure I know what his response to you would be. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/14/2007 1:08:26 PM | Adamic man is the originator of the white race? The semites are brown and therefore inferior somehow? WTF?!!!
Are you really serious? Or have you been reading the skinhead brochures again? READ MY LIPS, racism will rot your brain, rot your brain........
Arabs ARE "white" people, good grief..there are ONLY 3 , maybe 4 main subtypes of humans. Europe, the Middle East, India and the Mediterranean is the origin of the Indo-Europeans..the Caucasians. This would place the Semitic peoples, the Berbers, the Turks, Persians and Egyptians..Hebrews, Palestinians...etc.. the Indians of the indian sub-continent, The Gypsies, the Slavs and the Mediterranean peoples along with the Northern Europeans as WHITE PEOPLE.
Then there are the Oriental, or Mongoloid, The far east, china, tibet, mongolia (some think that the native peoples of the america's belong in this sub-group, but that is in debate)
The Negroids, from Africa and Australia.
That's it...all other subgroups are contained within these three main ones. End of story. Where do you think Europeans came from? They migrated from the middle east and mediterranean... Archaeologists have followed their trail. Arabs don't have brown skin because they have negroid blood..we have light skin because it's winter in the north a lot of the time and we don't need the sun protection. We are light-skinned Middle-Easterners.
Sorry, it's a touchy subject for me...the lack of basic knowledge about homo sapiens sapiens just pisses me off. And to use some religious text to try and justify racism has to be the epitome of despicable. Do your homework, read an anthropological text and quit feeling superior just because you can get a sunburn. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/14/2007 2:05:16 PM | | Jesus was a Hebrew...NOT a man of color. He was of the tribe of David...NOT the tribe of Juan, or the tribe of Jamal. Jesus was also God, which is why any Christian has trouble with worshipping any mere man let alone a man of color. You flunked History, and Geography, as well as Bible Studies. So why do racist idiots such as yourself want the world to worship them? | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/14/2007 9:33:22 PM |
Adam was red skinned, a'dam means man and "red" in Hebrew
The very idea that we are debating the skin colour of a metaphoric character that had its origins in a Mesopotamian myth cycle that the Hebrews borrowed and added to their own stories is humourous to say the least.
The logic of guessing at the skin colour of said being because of a variant translation/play on words of a foreign language word, on the other hand, is just staggering. Whatever. You can imagine him to have polka-dot or plaid skin for all that it matters.
If there was an historical Jesus, his skin colour would have most certainly been that of his fellow Semites of the day. Caucasoid? That's an extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary proof to say the least | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/16/2007 5:51:51 PM | Caucasian and Colour
The categories and terms Caucasian or Caucasoid to denote certain general physical features is a very broad term, with no precise technical meaning. Usages vary quite widely.
In recent western history, the term has been used in a general way to refer to the lighter-skinned race(s) of European origin, also sometimes referred to as "White people." That is a very general term, and total relative in use, even used among black peopels to distinguish lighter and darker individuals in their own tribes.
Terms used to designate "races" are only relative, or comparative, words with usages depending on the social or ethnic setting in which they are used.
There is no defined racial grouping for whom the term is used. The term is used in some countries in somewhat official ways, such as a choice for ethnicity in censuses or other demographic information. But people with the physical features normally associated with the term Caucasoid include a full range of skin colours, including the Arabs, Somalis, Dravidian groups (Southern India and Southeast Asia) and other black or brown peoples.
There seems to be a full range or continuum of genetic or physiological features across a quite wide range of cultures, language groups and geographical areas. Thus it is a matter of relative contrast. It depends who you are comparing a particular group to.
Relative Colour
In contrast to black Africans, sometimes called "Negroid" in features or race, the Italians, along with other darker southern Europeans, are indeed white. In comparison to blond Scandinavians, they don't look so white. But in general they still fit in the category of humans the term Caucasian normally refers to.
Geographical Origin
In origin the term "Caucasian" is an adjective referring to the Caucasus mountains. This is thought to be the original dispersal point of peoples speaking forms of speech now identified as Indo-European.
Thus it references the general history traceable through language information back to the Caucasus mountains. The language history is not correlated in any way to ethnicity or physical features. Today peoples of all "races" speak Indo-European languages.
In the migrations over just the past 2000 years, peoples of Asian origin have come into Europe in various waves of military or other migration. These peoples, related to Mongols and Turks, mixed with peoples of Germanic and other Indo-European backgrounds.
Others were Arabs and Berbers from Northern Africa, as well as earlier Phoenicians. These peoples would also fit into the grouping commonly called Caucasian also today, but they spoke Semitic languages.
Variety in Ancient "Italy"
From pre-Roman times, it appears there was already a clear distinction of short, darker-skinned, dark-haired peoples from pre-history being overlayed and mixed with taller, sometimes larger built, blond and blue-eyed groups. For instance, the Etruscans, in what is now Northern Italy, did not speak an Indo-European language.
The Etruscans may have been there before the Indo-Europeans arrived. They are thought to have been a blond, blue-eyed people. The Etruscans borrowed the alphabet of the Greeks, modified it to match their own language before the neighbouring Latin tribe became literate.
The Latins, coming to be known as the Romans from their original city, borrowed the Etruscan alphabet and again slightly modified it to suit the sounds of their language. It is now generally believed that the Greeks also were larger, blond and blue-eyed people, which was the case when Alexander the Great spread his forces and opened up colonies all over the Middle East and Egypt.
This may strike us as odd today, since in modern times we think of the Greeks as shorter, darker people, not too different from the Italians. There are blond Greeks, though, as well as Turks.
Centuries before the rise of the Latins, or the establishment of Rome, Greeks already had colonies and trading centres all over the Italian coast, Sicily, and other islands, and all along the Iberian and North Africa coast. This went into the mix of peoples later considered Italian. Were these ancient Greek-speaking (from around 750 BC or earlier) dark or light? But we would likely consider them Caucasian.
Vikings in Italy
Northern Italy was later home to the invading German groups, from times before the development of the Roman Empire, but particularly in the period from the 300s in our era. This introduced another light genetic strain in to the Italian genetic stream.
Germans settled in Iberia and all the way into Northern Africa, resulting in the blue-eyed and lighter-skinned Berber groups in North Africa. Even more recently in history, another primarily blond strain was added to the Italian mix, from the Viking Normas, who, after conquering England in 1066, became an ethnicity of nobles ruling all of Europe, Russia and much of the Middle East in the Middle Ages.
The point of this is that, in fact, not all Italians are dark. In fact, the term "Italian," as we use and knonw it today, is primarily a geo-political designation, although it carries some ethnic and linguisitc connotatoins also. Italy as a political entity goes back only to 1861.
Additonal ethnic strains added to the vibrant variation in the "Italian" genetic stream. Some were darker toned in color. There were Arab colonies in the Italic peninsula and islands off Italy were ruled by Arabs for centuries. Such is still the case in Malta, whose people are primarily of Bedouin origin, though ethnically mixed with other peoples, and still speaking a language (Maltese) closely related to Arabic.
Race vs Language
Another thing is that the language a people spoke at a particular time does not necessarily tell us what ethnic or racial group they originally came from. People move around, learn local language. Others settle in and keep their language, which becomes the language of the locals. All peoples have mixed with newcomers, so we all have a wide range of genes. The mix makes subtle differences in a certain area.
My note: Semites, Italians and others are considered WHITE or Caucasoid...regardless of their particular hue. However, this designation has become useless now with the advent of genetics. Anthropologists are more likely to think in terms of genomes, linguistics and blood types than in "race". Mainly because they have discovered that we are more alike than different, and we have all interbred so much over the millennia that there are no longer any "pure" type of any particular cultural genetic type. Jesus (if he existed) was semitic...a hebrew...dark skinned, coarse hair...umm.. a "swarthy" man.
And I do remember that the word "adam" did mean read...as in red clay...earth..ie: the "dust" he was supposed to have been made from. Doesn't mean however that he is of the "red" people who are in North America. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/16/2007 10:28:59 PM | Apparently though, if you have an agenda, and your knowledge of Hebrew is purely derived from lexicons or dicionaries, as are some of these Christian groups or fringe Christian cults, rather than native speakers or scholrs of ancient Hebrew or Aramaic, rather than interpreting the word in CONTEXT, where Adam or ha-adam simply means a man or a living being, you can read whatever you want into it by finding whatever meaning of the language most suits your own personal agenda rather than seeing what the context of the surrounding text tells you, the history of the text tells you, the corroborating stories in other mythological cycles tell you or anything a responsible scientific approach to understanding what the original storyteller was saying was in historical and cultural context....
Because apparently in modern scriptural interpretation, it is gar more important to do what the "holy spirit" tells you is true, than what logic, common sense, and the scientific method would dictate that you would do when attempting to interpret the correct contextual sense for interpreting an historical document.
So pick whatever agenda you think God supports, because if you do that and can come up with some convoluted argument that you think you can find a shred of scriptural leeway for, you may be in the clear...hallelujah and pass the B.S. Look at me, Mah, I can interpret scripture way better then them yoonibersitee fellers with the bool lernin, cuz i gots me the hollee sprit! | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 7:32:31 AM | "Because apparently in modern scriptural interpretation, it is far more important to do what the "holy spirit" tells you is true, than what logic, common sense, and the scientific method would dictate that you would do when attempting to interpret the correct contextual sense for interpreting an historical document."
here, here. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 8:28:18 AM | | Funny how the Holy spirit tells one Christian one thing and another just the opposite. | |
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