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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 7:32:31 AM | "Because apparently in modern scriptural interpretation, it is far more important to do what the "holy spirit" tells you is true, than what logic, common sense, and the scientific method would dictate that you would do when attempting to interpret the correct contextual sense for interpreting an historical document."
here, here. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 8:28:18 AM | | Funny how the Holy spirit tells one Christian one thing and another just the opposite. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 8:39:08 AM | ^^^
Artz.... oh my god you do have a face after all and it's so nice to finally be able to "see" you after all this time....haha!!  | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 9:11:07 AM | Artz,
You will find the answer in Romans 14. Christianity is tailor-made by the Holy Spirit to fit each believer perfectly. Not everyone has the same resources, so God only gives us what we can handle. Only the living God could create a religion that was so dynamic as Christiansity, becuase only the living God knows his childrens needs, hearts, strengths and weaknesses. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 3:09:56 PM | I just want to see if I am following this then...I know you won't let me railroad you into an answer you don't want to give but are you suggesting that in the face of a scientific explanation that doesn't support your conclusion you would go with what the "spirit" tells you in the face of overwhelming documentary and scholarly evidence to the contrary simply because you yourself think/believe that God has told you otherwise?
Do you know how utterly contrarian that sounds? Cutting off the nose to spite the face comes to mind.
"He sure drove into that wall...accelerated too, pedal to the floor...we all knew it was there. But he didn't blink once, because the Holy Spirit told him he could do it."
Extreme example, but I think the point is valid enough. If anthropologists, linguists and genuine experts in their field do not support the conclusion that 1st century people in Israel were anything other than Semitic in appearance and not European, fair skinned, why would one believe otherwise because of an out of context reference to one word pun changed into a private pet theory by non-Hebrew Speaking non-scholars.
Why make a wild extrapolation on skin colour of a people you have no real information about because it makes you feel good and fits your preconceived notions? You have no facts to hypothesize with. You have a word in a religious text...in other words, zip. No evidence of anything at all.
I just want to know if that is indeed what you are suggesting so that can be cleared up... | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 3:18:21 PM |
You will find the answer in Romans 14. Christianity is tailor-made by the Holy Spirit to fit each believer perfectly. Not everyone has the same resources, so God only gives us what we can handle. Only the living God could create a religion that was so dynamic as Christiansity, becuase only the living God knows his childrens needs, hearts, strengths and weaknesses.
sorry i have to differ with popular opinion here , that it isnt any sin or just eveyone makes it like unto them.
There is a description in their bible of jesus, if they beleive in their own book they would depict that image.
It was also said the jesus was the perfect example of man created in the image of the father. So subconsiously it is creating a sort of supremecy its not just by chance its intentional.
I have been to black churches in united states and seen the same white depiction of jesus christ, the churches in africa however showed an image of black jesus | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 3:43:46 PM | Sorry... 5 pages of posts... too long for me to wade through.
Yahshua (Jesus) was of the lineage of David.
In the bible we read that David was "ruddy" 1 Sam 16:12, 17:42, also Songs of Solomon 5:10
"Ruddy" as in "reddish hair"
Interesting to take that into account, when we read the report that Pilate sent to Caesar about the arrest and crucification of Yahshua (Jesus)..... it says:
"His (Yahshua's/Jesus') golden-coloured hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. ....."
So.. they both tie in.... | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 3:51:48 PM | So tell where can this so called report of Pilate be found? See as this would be one of Archeology's biggest finds ever, I am surprised that nobody else has heard of this so called report. Besides Pilate was one of roman best exicutionars he put thousands of Jews on the Cross. Why would he need to write a report on one more?
site your credible source for this report. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 4:23:25 PM | She can't because it doesn't show up in the historical record corroborated by any secular historian or in the Roman records at all. There is no actual report of Pilate. The "source" is the pen of Tertullian (c120 CE - 230). The rest of the content, including rendering both Pilate and Tiberius into closet Christians is what helps render this document into the colossal fraud that it is plus the lack of corroboration from secular contemporaries...why oh why do people keep quoting from these things when they have been so thoroughly debunked?
And additionally you have the Lentulus Letters which don't show up before the 13th or 14th century probably based on an earlier Greek forgery and first printed in the "Life of Christ" by Ludolph the Carthusian (Cologne, 1474). In this the writer creates a fictitious predecessor for Pilate as the narrator calling him "Publius Lentulus". The forger has his creation write to the Roman Senate, reporting Christ's "raising of the dead". He describes Jesus as "the most beautiful of the sons of men." A complete fiction...but lying for God according to at least one of the early church fathers, gets you a pass if it helps you win souls. Jerome and Eusebius both advocate it...Eusebius should...he lies like a sidewalk.
My Carl Sagan model "Baloney Detector" went so high on this the needle jammed...there it goes... | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 4:36:43 PM | It was a report written "to Tiberius Caesar, Emperor of Rome"...
There are many ancient Jewish and Roman records HIDDEN in the ancient libraries at the Vatican in Rome, and the Jewish Talmuds at Constantinople
Records of the courts in those days were more carefully preserved than they are now.
Duranzo, a Greek historian, wrote that the Christians had gathered and brought their literature from all parts of the world to Constantinople. The Jewish Talmuds in Constantinople (Istanbul, Turkey). It was a great seat of learning of the world.
He says, that when Mohammed locked up the great library, he excluded the learned with them the wealth of the city.
In the late 1800's they were seen by someone searching for them, (had to be serached for by name) before these records could no longer be accessed in secret or private archives of the Vatican.
There are many records still available on this earth today regarding the Jewish Messiah Yahshua... kept hidden from the general public, except the Holy Scriptures.
1) Vatican Library - open to the public under certain circumstances. Today, the library holds some 75,000 manuscripts and over 1.1. milion printed books, which include some 8,500 incunabula.
Open to anyone who can document their qualifications and their research needs to view the collection.
There is no browsing, and selected scholars must ask in advance that such a document exists.
2) The SECRET Vatican Archives were separated from the Library at the beginning of the 17th centruy; they contain another 150,000 items.
30 miles of shelving. "Publication of the indexes, in part or as a whole, is forbidden" according to the regulations current in 2005.
3) Other Secret Archives - there are other secret archives at the Vatican. An even more secret archive is kept which is not made public.
Some of these ancient records were acquired BEFORE such documents were no longer available to the public.
Eg Rabbi Akiba, quotes from Celsus, an enemy of the church. He says there was a dreadful earthquake at the time Jesus was crucified, and that the mist that arose from it covered the earth for three hours.
On page 48 he says Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover. He gives extracts from the Apostles, and never denies in a single instance, but admits their genuiness.
He makes particular mention of his incarnation, being born of a virgin, being worshipped by the Magi, his flight into Egypt, the massacre of the infants of Bethlehem. On page 52 he speaks of His baptism by John, and the descent of the Holy Spirit, and the voice that was heard out of heaven,.. he speaks of the miracles done by Jesus, and never doubts the facts in any instance. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 4:53:57 PM | Another quote:
Aretas, one of the kings of Arabia, who was a philosopher as well as a king, in speaking of the laws of nature (Vol. VII, page 14), says that
Jesus of Judea was a philosopher above the laws of nature; that he controlled all the elements of nature with almighty power; that the winds, thunders, and lightning's obeyed him; and speaks of these facts as being so common that it would be folly tp dispute them. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 4:57:25 PM | and another one:
Justin says, in Vol. II, page 42, that the several Roman governors in their respective provinces made reports of the important events that occurred in their jurisdiction, and they were spread on the senatorial dockets in Rome. We find in the same work, page 128 , that he appealed to Antoninus and the Senate for clemency for the Christians, and after referring to their many virtues, and to Christ as their leader, added:
"And that these things are so, I refer you to the records of the Senate made by Pontius Pilate and others in his day."
This is the one I quoted from, regarding His hair colour. | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 5:32:51 PM | I can only find mention of Aretas in 3 places
Tiberius, Josephus and Lucius Coponius all mention the Petra and the Nabatean King(VI) Who were also in Damascus.
But...can not find any writings written by this king hinself. Artets daughter was married to Herod, but he put her away.
Which volume of work are you referring to? | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/17/2007 5:42:20 PM |
Eg Rabbi Akiba, quotes from Celsus, an enemy of the church.
Again the entire authenticity of the document would have to be called into question if you cannot find any corroborating documentation within secular writers of the period. Just because it is an old book, and happens to tell you something you desperately want to believe doesn't make it true.
This is how we know the Testimonium Flavianum is a pious fraud - because people like Origen, who would have surely mentioned it did not. If there is no contemporaneous confirmation, you have almost certain confirmation that it is a later fraud for which we have more than ample evidence of an ongoing pattern of production, motive and willingness to produce - in fact admission of same - by the church.
We know historically that events like the slaughter of the innocents did not happen, period. Not even Josephus mentioned it. There is simply no verification by other secular sources. The very fact that the Celsus source goes out of its way to confirm the Gospel account point for point goes directly towards impeaching its credibility entirely because it flies directly in the face of known historical fact. In short, it is complete bullsh*t.
This applies to any and all of these quotations. As evidence for the historicity, let alone the appearance of Jesus they are worthless...moreover they are drifting off-topic. If you want to discuss the historicity of Jesus there are two other threads for that...the subject of this thread is:
I was recently doing some reading, and got to thinking when you go into a Church (no matter where it is) Jesus is ALWAYS depicted as being European looking with blonde hair and blue eyes when if you look at history and geography (not to mention the first chapter of Revelations) it would be very obvious even to laymen that Jesus was a man of colour.
I'm just curious what everyone's thoughts on this are, and why you think the "Church" has such a psychological discomfort in worshipping a man of colour? | |
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| Jesus As A Man Of Colour
Posted: 9/18/2007 7:15:44 AM |
2) The SECRET Vatican Archives were separated from the Library at the beginning of the 17th centruy; they contain another 150,000 items.
30 miles of shelving. "Publication of the indexes, in part or as a whole, is forbidden" according to the regulations current in 2005.
if the Vatican had secret archives and or books that proved the existance of JC, you would think they would release it to help shut the athiests up. Additionally, if this was secret then how would you know about it?
3) Other Secret Archives - there are other secret archives at the Vatican. An even more secret archive is kept which is not made public.
Like the predictions of Fantima that only released AFTER the fact? Lame even by my standards. Even if the Vatican has secret archives, it hold lame stuff like the churchs early sanctioning of gay marriages or the covering up of a child moslestation manuel.
Although, i have heard that the church is releasing many documents to be able to be read online. but its easier to believe coverup then truth. the christian myth has been going on for how many centuries.
We need to get back on topic about JC being dark haired and dark skinned and not like an anglo blonde. it was getting interesting to see the true face of racism reveal itself over this topic. | |
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