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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/16/2007 7:36:56 PM | I think it’s a fairy tale and potentially hazardous for all those folks who will hear it and expect that some day they too will have a magic relationship without friction or effort. The part I have a problem with is that nobody can tell us how to reach this fantasy kingdom or even describe how it’s different from any other great relationship. There are no instructions, no formula and no advice other than ‘open yourself up to it’. Lol. That sounds too much like religious mysticism to me. It’s like that old ontological argument that goes: (1) I define God to be X. (2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist. (3) Therefore, God exists. Except in this case we can’t even distinguish the difference between the emotion, love, and a ‘soul connection’. It’s improperly conceived.
@gardenut.... I think he is referring to what I said earlier, when I that my relationship "has not required any major amounts of effort to make it work, it just seems to fit." However, he probably doesn't realize the amount of work I did BEFORE I got into the relationship. I gave a very abbreviated form of it in an earlier post.... but suffice it to say, it was not easy... there was a lot of friction and effort!
To say "open yourself up to it" is a very simple way of putting it... but it is accurate. I have dealt with most of my "issues".... as has he.... we work through our problems together.... not to say they aren't there, but, it is not hard work, it flows easily because we have been through so many similar experiences, there is an inherent understanding of each other that comes from that. A person has to be "ready" for a relationship of this depth.... in a similar way that most teenagers are not ready to be married and/or have kids.
I am not going to debate the existence of a kind of connection in an open forum... that is not the point of this forum. Algy, if you seriously wish to know more about it, fishmail me.... I have no problems answering your questions.... all I ask is you bring an open mind to the discussion.
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/16/2007 7:47:12 PM | Some interesting points being made once again and it is a wonderful world where we can all have our own beliefs and stand beside them or try to prove them to others with mention of scientific findings, religious standings on the issues, or educational theory.
I have always been one to particularly not follow any of those and it may show through my lack of education or wording for that matter, but what it comes down to with me is I base my decisions on what something is according to my own personal belief and how my life's experiences make me see it that way.
I think as "ravincause" stated in a straightforward way, if one has not experienced this connection which is totally unique from another they may try to deem it as fantasy or something that is just based on emotions. Again we are all entitled to our beliefs and or thinking.
Many have been in romantic love, lust filled relationships, relationships of the mind, etc. but this is much much different.
Now if I can try to prove you to why I think this..........
The connection is not one of total all the time magical bliss as some are believing that we are trying to suggest, it is a quest to learn the person's inner soul and this takes a lot of effort and will power to obtain, YET it seems that because this connection is beyond the norm of other relationships that it is a joy to know the inner , deepest, core of your soul partner and it seems for the most part that this time put in simply flows naturally and without waves.
This soul to soul connection is in many ways like a normal relationship in that you will have the ups and downs of normal lives, it is the deeper understanding of the other soul that makes life and the relationship that much more connected and enjoyable.
Hope that makes sense........... | |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 10:31:36 PM | sombient, as a fost/adopt mom of children with past dx of attachment disorder (inabililty to bond) and no doubt absense of "glial cell network plasticity" (!), i must tell you that the vast expanse of unexplored brain territory can be "spiritually" or sometimes "humorously" awakened. the chicken or the egg?
the ability to relate to another above and beyond the basic bodily functions is energetic. all energy has a biological basis. all biology has an energetic basis. it's as it all swirls around, manifesting and disintegrating, the circle gets wider, the stamina to hold on gets stronger and poof, turn on the brain receptors because it becomes an "aha" moment!
life is a circle. our lives are part of a greater system as i know you know, having read your other posts. i love margaret wheatley's work that brings together the biology with the soul. the concepts do not refute one another. they expand upon one another.
on a lighter note: so where is the man with glial cells for me?!#* liq (laugh inwardly quietly) | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/16/2007 10:54:29 PM | Chemistry between to people can not be manufactured. It is there or not there. I wish I knew the answer.We are all on a road of surface connections and I believe are afraid of rejection. This fear sometimes keeps us from relaxing and being our true inner self. Just relaxing and being free expecting nothing in return will bring you that someone beyond description. | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 12:28:04 AM |
... it is a quest to learn the person's inner soul and this takes a lot of effort and will power to obtain, YET it seems that because this connection is beyond the norm of other relationships that it is a joy to know the inner , deepest, core of your soul partner and it seems for the most part that this time put in simply flows naturally and without waves.
While I'm glad you're experiencing such a positive thing, Wicked, I don't see anything in your words or sentiments giving definitive proof of a 'soul-bonding' experience.
Clearly you are experiencing a wonderful reaction to exploring someone else's life. This is a powerful, beautiful, breath-taking, aweing sensation, and I'm glad you are on this journey.
Sombient and one other (gads I'm terrible with remembering names) have provided strong positions, Sombient that of the biological reaction to 'falling in love', and the other stating unequiviocally the necessity for definitive proof of the souls existance before one can start making grand-unified theories about it's power, abilities, dimensions etc, or assuming experiences there-of and attaching said experiences pell-mell to the lable of this thing called 'soul'.
I'd like to step back from the current trend to associate love/romance/bonding with proof positive of a 'soul' and examine the nature of the beast from a different perspective.
I arrived at the conclusion that souls exist several seconds after I was born. The remembering of which gives the skeptic in me no-end of wondering about over the years. As that very early introspective moment of thought has duplicated itself over and over again over the years, I'll provide the bones of that internal realization.
I exist. I am here. In life. I don't know where I came from. Terror. Fear. Confusion. Host organism experiencing stimuli. Unique to it, different from other organisms, even those similar in form to mine. Ergo, this shell, this host is a uniqe structure from all others. Ergo, I exist alone in this host organism.
Now, closer to the truth of the experience, I remember being extremely mystified (my first months especially) that I couldn't communicate telepathically with the other creatures around me. Clearly they were also host organisms with an *I*. In fact, I didn't differentiate their I was different than my I for some time. Their 'I' seemed oddly closed off from my 'I' and it took awhile for me to understand this dilema. Frankly I still work on this problem to this day, some 42 years later. I have arrived at some conclusions, which I will try to share here as they seem to fit.
Take my arms away and I will still be I. Take away my eyes, and I'm still there. Take away my ears, my legs, much of my body and I will still be here.
Now it gets tricky.
How much is the mind related to this thing called a soul?
How much of my brain can be damaged and 'I' still be here?
Through triumphs and failures, great extremes of both, I have watched my soul. Wondering how much the mind, how much the myriad amount of processess linked to this host organism are related to the sense that it is 'I' sitting here typing these words?
I have felt great jubilation. Great depression. Massive washes of chemicals throughout the body and mind triggering the massive amount of 'feelings' we all muchly feel. Yet 'I', if watched closely, remain exactly the same thing. No matter if I idly watch a bird in flight, or feel my brain cramping from working on string-theory concepts, that 'I' just sits there. Watching. The host thinks. The host feels. The host does. But seperate from it all, like a bird upon a rhinos back, my soul perches and goes along with the ride.
An argument could be made that I'm just merely playing a trick with my mind--I'm creating a seperate pocket of 'self' and calling it my very own soul. It is an argument I've tried to convince myself over the years is valid. But it fails.
Why?
Because I remember sitting in the crib. I remember using the host organisms 'brain', and knowing it was a 'brain', trying to figure out why my soul was caged off from the other souls I could see.
And why do I remember that? When so many don't? Because it struck me then, so long ago, that this phenomena is crucial and needs to be understood.
I recall, way back then, reasoning with myself and thinking: This is an important thing. Yet these other big creatures which are shaped similar to me have completely lost contact with this. Why? I didn't know. I remember it scared me to not know that. I then set about doing something which I suppose is odd, but at the time was one of the few tools I had at my disposal. I decided to remember every thing I experienced. To go back over all the memories I was receiving, to make sure that I wouldn't forget, that when I was a big creature, what I was thinking and experiencing way back then could be accessed.
Truth be told, I've forgotten much. I even forgot to do all that after a spell--I can't remember how old I was, perhaps around 3 or so. I remember getting swamped with the remembering, starting to glitch, forgetting things and being amazed I'd forgotten, realizing that such a concept was beyond the capacity of the organism I'd been born in. So I laid a trap for myself to discover years later, in the event that I completely forgot, like I saw so many others had done. I 'fixed' the memories of the earliest things, the things I was thinking about, the ruminations about the soul, the 'I', cemented them in my mind, attached images and the thrust of the concept into a chamber, with some tale-tale bread-crumbs to lead me back much later.
It wasn't until I was sitting in philosophy class, age 22, and puzzling over the soul and how to prove it's existance that I landed back in the mind of myself some 21 years, 9 months earlier. I'd forgotten about all of it. All the remembering, the crucial important message I insisted I'd have to remember. I remember my mouth going dry in the class, listening far-off to the professor talking about something. I felt sick, nauseated, swimming suddenly in the trap I'd laid so long ago, dumped there like garbage falling down an apt building chute to the bucket far below.
Then, I laughed. Who would ever believe me? The very fact that we're seperated from all other organisms, whether it be our own species or any other, produces an automatic distrust of their ruminations about their internal states. Because we can't know for sure what they're saying isn't just something they're making up. Or delluding themselves with.
So I set about trying to prove this thing called soul, all over again.
The answer, inevitably, was simple.
I arrived at it in the eyes of the animals. How is this important? Because animals don't lie. If you approach an animal as an organism with a mind, you will get one response. If you approach an animal by simply 'being' with it, you'll get an entirely different reaction. Hone this skill well enough and I can say from personal proof that it's like stepping into the garden of eden.
Animals can sense this soul-state. You can literally see their 'soul' swiveling into focus and coming directly into you. Sharing the same space. They know they're seperate in form, as I know I am seperate in form, but the soul is not so encumbered.
I've argued with myself that this is just a game... some kind of mind-game with myself, but inevitably I come back to: if I'm creating this mind game, I can fool myself. I can make myself think and feel all manner of things. But obviously that creature over there isn't part of my mind game. So why the heck is it reacting like that?
A long post, and I appologize for it's length, but one I felt needed to be placed here, for those of you who wish to assess, analyse, use as you wish.
The rabbit hole does indeed get much deeper, but that's a different story for a different day.
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 1:59:37 AM | | metaphysicalman sometimes we can meet our soulmate but it just isn,t the right time for one or other of them to be in a relationship.If the person you met truly is your soulmate then the 2 of you will meet again because we are meant to be with that person.No one is saying that it will be a smooth ride with our soul mates.As with any relationship, it has to be worked at.The only diffrence is that our soulmates are more accepting of our faults and flaws as we are of theirs and because there is that connection of souls the relationship is able to survive the bad times as well as the good. | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 6:00:08 AM | WOW - what an awesome topic and so nicely put. Thanks WW. Ok, I totally believe people come in and out of our lives on a regular basis, and there is something truly special when you connect deeply. Such as, saying the same thing at the same time . . . CONSTANTLY, this just doesn't happen much. It is so refreshing when somebody comes along that you just totally and completely click with, in almost every aspect of our lives, but it is a rarity indeed.
I believe that we have more than one "soulmate" if you will, but no matter who comes in and out of our lives, it happens for a reason; we get stronger, better or weaker and bitter, it's our decision.
The reason we don't open our souls much, gentlemen, is because we've been crapped on, lied to, cheated on, and just plain ole hurt, it takes somebody special to bring that out, but it's all a gamble; you have to decide whether or not to let the special somebody that you are, out. | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 8:23:20 AM | | For my self everyone is SOUL. But the ULTIMATE connection with another as SOUL(in a woman to man relationship) is what you are talking about. From my own experience, I know for myself or another to reach my SOUL light, in a relationship, they must have awareness of such. Its then that the energies, are mingled. They are not sent into the other, but shared. Someone who knows about SOUL energy knows this. For example I happen to meet someone in the past, who showed me this. When he touch my hand, I could feel his energy, he could feel mine. Its sort of reminds you of the old movies with aliens where they touch palm to palm, and their is no need for words. And also the word touch is not accurated its feeling the other. Their is an ecstacy in this experience, and I would love to have it again. | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 8:30:44 AM | Great post, honest and open. I happen to agree with you. Trying to define what the soul is, is at the root of how you believe you are "touching" it.
As Subtle Savage said, your mind is defintely what is your inner core or being but more than that, there is a spark of energy which motivates both mind and body. As he said, its in animals eyes .....and we are the human animal. Its in the eyes. But to totally connect would mean more than just the mind connection or body connection. There is that certain something which is indefinable but you know it when you look into their eyes. | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 8:48:35 AM | Uh-OH! Squirrly brought CHOCOLATE!! (Wipes mouth) 
My soul is on auto-pilot now!!
Thanks Squirrly.....Sheeeesh!!
God Bless
Scott | |
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Algy
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Joined: 11/3/2006
Msg: 136 | |
| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 8:49:25 AM |
I think as "ravincause" stated in a straightforward way, if one has not experienced this connection which is totally unique from another they may try to deem it as fantasy or something that is just based on emotions.
I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent and open minded. I can accept that there many things in life that I have not experienced or do not understand. What I struggle with is being told that there’s a thing that can’t be described or explained which can only be felt but is not an emotion or a feeling. Love can be explained. Pain can be defined. St Augustine took a crack at describing mysticism. Why can’t somebody tell me what this thing is and how to find it? To say that I can’t know it because I haven’t felt it is not a valid argument. I have and will never experience childbirth but I have some sense of it because it can be described. To tell me that I can only know it if I’ve been there and I can’t know it because I haven’t been there is a circular argument; a tautology.
Funny how this topic is drawing gender lines. | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 10:18:14 AM | I am always amazed at how our subjective experiences can
vary so greatly, depending upon our vantage point.
Maybe in this regard, there is an explanation. As one evolves
as far as consciousness and an expanded awareness goes,
it goes without saying that relationships and partners will
be looked at from a different vantage point!
So, this aspect of soul connection, might then apply to
everyone you then have a close relationship with. Not only
that, but since like attracts like, you will likely attract
similarly evolved persons to yourself, and the level of
relating and understanding each other, will likely be
unfathomable to most common folk! | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 10:31:44 AM |
I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent and open minded. I can accept that there many things in life that I have not experienced or do not understand. What I struggle with is being told that there’s a thing that can’t be described or explained which can only be felt but is not an emotion or a feeling. Love can be explained. Pain can be defined. St Augustine took a crack at describing mysticism. Why can’t somebody tell me what this thing is and how to find it? To say that I can’t know it because I haven’t felt it is not a valid argument. I have and will never experience childbirth but I have some sense of it because it can be described. To tell me that I can only know it if I’ve been there and I can’t know it because I haven’t been there is a circular argument; a tautology.
Okay, I'll have a shot. The difficulty is that describing makes one sound like a love-crazed loon very quickly. I am in love, but I'm a very practical woman with a doctorate in maths and a sound ability to use logic and reason and to question everything. And I've never touched magic mushrooms or anything dodgy. :) The thing you might do well to remember is that you are as incapable of proving any "fact" outside of the well-defined realms of logic or mathematics as anyone else is: nothing outside those areas can ever be 100% proven (only proven beyond reasonable doubt, or within probabilities).
I am sceptical about things, I hate the idea of deceiving myself with wishful thinking or belief: I learned my lesson regarding avoiding that. The connection I have found though is something far beyond the strongest love I have felt before. Much of it is defined by real life behaviour that aligns with "in love" so I'll skip those elements and move on to the ones that make it more. This is only my experience and perhaps all connections of this type are completely unique, but anyway...
Firstly, and perhaps this can be explained by infatuation, there is the sense of finding someone who matches yourself perfectly. As if everyone else I'd ever met was alien to me and suddenly I found one person that is truly made of the same stuff as me. We don't need to explain our feelings to each other because we share the same instinctive reactions to things: there is perfect empathy between us, like a musical harmony where not a single note jars.
Secondly, I feel what I can only describe as a connection of energies. Experienced at a distance this feels rather how meditating is sometimes described to feel, but with focusing on reaching out specifically to him. Sometimes energy seems to flow and sometimes it does not. It's possible to reach out to anyone in this way, but most people are closed. It feels like I push my conciousness down into my heart and my heart radiates "something". Receiving energy seems to come as jolts to my stomach. When I'm stressed or he is stressed the flow doesn't seem to work. Sending and receiving energy is something was open-minded enough to try, but sceptical about. I was very surprised the first time I really felt the energy flowing through me and I panicked and stopped. Curiosity led me to experiment further and I feel confident that I'm not deluding myself, that something I cannot scientifically explain is happening.
In person it's more magical. Just standing facing each other, touching palms or lightly hugging waves of energy seem to wash over me, it's like light or heat flowing through me in waves. When it has a colour, it's golden yellow. Sometimes it is as if I am standing inside a bell that has just been rung, my whole body kind of reverberates to it, like a buzzing in my head especially and in my arms, hands and upper body. I'm not as sensitive to energies as he is, and it's all new to me to be feeling these things at all. I've questioned it a lot: was I hyperventilating, was I just feeling dizzy because I was hungry, is it a change in altitude, but it's not. It's him, or rather.. us. Energy flowing does feel like something flowing, as if you had an electric current going up your arm, but you aren't actually touching anything electric, just holding your hand above theirs, or over their heart.
I've missed people before in my life but nothing like missing him. In relationships especially I've always felt that distance was something of an advantage: stopped me feeling suffocated. But now... it feels like my heart is constantly crying out to be with him. It physically hurts, but in a different way from I've known from the painful years away from home where I so terribly missed my parents. This isn't diminishing with time and it's relentless. It's not just hurt, it's also full of joy at having found him and desperately telling me where I should be with a childish disinterest in the practicalities of life. Reading this thread upset me as so many seem to have found someone but then lost them, and how could you lose them? It'd be easier to have my heart cut out and walk around with a hole in my chest, it seems. And I've been head over heels deeply in love before and never felt that it affected my reality this way.
That's the other thing. Everything becomes so much clearer, rapidly. From the start when I was chatting to him online the only way I could describe it to my concerned mother was that it was like having a second brain so much like mine and just thinking with it too. Communication has always been so easy and natural. My perceptions have changed significantly too as a result -- there seem to be revelations all the time, regarding life and how we approach it, obstacles and unhelpful beliefs.
I always thought that those people who looked for someone to complete them were pathetic: I have always believed that I am whole person and did not need anyone to complete me. But now my life feels like a piece is missing in all the moments he is not there. And at the same time I feel like I found something that makes life make sense, that completes what I thought was already complete and so changes it's entire appearance. It is not like love where you constantly think of a person or wish they were there to share certain things with you. It's like a physical sense of wrongness, I can't be with him at the moment because we live 4000 miles apart and living my old life, with all the things that used to fill me with happiness and inspiration, seems wrong because I'm not with him. We are both practical, responsible people and actually being together without being silly about it, is something that will take time. It hurts to miss someone like this, and worse to know they are suffering badly too. It's not something you'd ever choose to feel through a wishful thought.
There are other things I could mention. But who can describe what they see when they look into someone's eyes without sounding simply infatuated? If I say that we seem to sense each other's pain there are always guesses and cues that might have been made, it's not scientific. All I know is that this is strikingly different to anything I've ever felt. Knowing him and sharing the connection we do has helped free me from 14 years of daily headaches, and almost remove migraines that were coming 3 times a week. There is no way I could have done that without the space he held for me in his heart, but with that space, he's helped me be free. And that is the main feeling -- one of great empowerment and freedom. Trust in the universe and in myself. And love so strong and deep that I'll need at least a lifetime to try to express it to him.
Sorry this is long reading, it is a very difficult thing to attempt to explain and I can't do it justice but I wanted to try.
How to find such a thing? It seemed like a miracle but I think that what I had right was being in tune with myself. I'm far from perfect or sorted out or enlightened, but just simply being true to myself meant that the song I was singing was the same song my heart was singing and so was his, so when our outer songs harmonised the beauty was in finding that the inner ones did too. | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 10:32:50 AM | | great minds think alike they do ;) so kudos to you i agree n have for a long long time .. but hey im native american and am deeply spiritual and knowledged of my culture . your point reminds me of ancient teachings on love ... but it would take much to much to type on line .... | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 10:44:37 AM |
Why can’t somebody tell me what this thing is and how to find it? To say that I can’t know it because I haven’t felt it is not a valid argument. I have and will never experience childbirth but I have some sense of it because it can be described. To tell me that I can only know it if I’ve been there and I can’t know it because I haven’t been there is a circular argument; a tautology.
@ Algy ......your post has been sticking in mind all afternoon and I can see that you are an open individual who wants to be a believer in the soul to soul connection but you need something to sink your teeth into, to make you a believer.
I've searched my mind over and over to try to come up with words to make you understand how this differs from "romantic love" and is a deeper connection that what most find in life.
One sentiment keeps flowing through my mind and that is "It's just knowing that it is different, you just know."
But I know that that is not going to make you believe lol, so I will try as best I can to give you my perception on what I am going through, bare with me!
It is beyond sharing emotions, physical bonding, exchanging of mind stimulation, or a heart to heart connection. It is like being on the exact same wave length to an extreme........everything you say , think , want , believe, desire , all ripples the same flow........it's just an uncanny experience in that you simply follow the same path ALL THE TIME!
It's tough to explain........there is no break in the flow of things, meaning you are so in tune with each other that when he feels pain so do you, he is in a funny mood and so are you, he is feeling romantic and so are you, he's serious and so is your mood..............it doesn't fluctuate in being different from each other........holy its like a connection that leaves you feeling baffled as to how you could be so connected to another on every level, and it's all the time...........
Another way to describe it from my view is that we both have this same flame burning within, at all times the flame is the same in its intensity, it never dwindles whatsoever, and as you become more connected this flame within both of you becomes the same flame......
I don't know if my mediocre description can convince you or anyone else for that matter, the words are hard to come by to describe this, all I have to say is when it comes to you and both partners are ready and open to it.........you simply will know what it is and that it is different. | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 10:53:51 AM | | second response .. hey wicked perhaps this may make sense .. many arent spiritual people in a sense of being here ... i believe in the age old saying ,, were spiritual beings learning to be human not humans learning to be spiritual .. but yet so many people really arent spiritual ,, there spirit is there but they live within the minds realm more so than anything .. so those other connections as you mentioned are all they really need desire or want ... i believe as you n seek but realise many dont n wont care to follow or hold these beliefs ,, but hey its great if everyone was the same or on the same page in life .. imagine the mundane fealing of that ... so kudos to those wo find there soul mates ...... we all have them .... in my belief anyways teheheh | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 11:29:06 AM | @Rune3..........
Most excellent post and I thoroughly enjoyed reading every word, for you described far better than I ever could and I thank you for sharing your thoughts/feelings/and experience with us on this thread.
I agree "wagoosh", one must have reached a point on their journey where they have sought out the study of the spirit that resides within, go deeper than the study of the heart or mind, and tap into the natural energy that runs within us or can be found in nature.
I have been lucky to come to this point of my journey and as I mentioned before I have some spiritual teachers that have prompted me to expand myself to others realms where I allow my spirit to be cultivated to a higher form of existance. I believe this internal soul searching has brought me to this place thankfully that I was able to see this other spirit when it presented itself and not run from it due to it's intensity.
At first I will admit that I was thinking of turning away because it just seemed like it couldnt be meant for me, but as strange as this sounds, I simply couldn't pull back because his energy pulled me forward. Then yes, the voice within the one we may call our instinct told me to follow the path for its leading you to where you need to go.
I most definitely believe that you have to have reached a point in your life where you have really come into contact with your own spirit, know what it is, know what it needs to thrive and flourish, and then yes I believe you can share it with another and have this "soul to soul connection." | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 11:49:39 AM |
It is beyond sharing emotions, physical bonding, exchanging of mind stimulation, or a heart to heart connection. It is like being on the exact same wave length to an extreme........everything you say , think , want , believe, desire , all ripples the same flow........it's just an uncanny experience in that you simply follow the same path ALL THE TIME!
That sounds like poetry to me.. like the beauty of a relationship William Blake spoke of.. or Shakespear.. or any great writer who might have become great do to a muse.. an inspiring soul that lit up a room and the people they were around. This is when everything comes together.. and touching someone's soul.. anyone's soul is nice. | |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 12:11:43 PM | OP what an awesome thread........I am so impressed with the opinions expressed here and it supports my theory that this site does have a lot of really good, intellegent life in the pond. Personally I agree with post #2 by the gentleman that said "most people do not open themselves up to find that connection and I agree.
I believe and have said more that once that to have a good friend you must be one and to find great love - you must be prepared to give great love. I live life in this manner, always expecting the best of people. Do, I get disappointed by some, without a doubt, but if I am not there to meet that special man half way, I will miss the opportunity. So, like or not - people get me - all of me - good, bad and indifferent. I know that one great love is out there for me - we just have not had that first date and had the opportunity to look into each others eyes and know that this is it.............
I am a very sensual person (5 senses definition) and have an unbelievable connection with many people in my life - men and women alike - there is nothing like it in the world and I am very blessed. | |
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Algy
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Joined: 11/3/2006
Msg: 145 | |
| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 12:53:10 PM | Rune: Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to educate me, I respect that. I hope that your new relationship turns out to be everything you want it to be and that the two of you are able to overcome the geographical distance between you.
I’m very familiar with the various standards of evidence and burdens of proof. I’m generally willing to concede to evidence which falls somewhere in between the “preponderance” and “clear and convincing” standards. – Sometimes I do get a little bull headed and only concede when evidence reaches the shotgun standard.
I have one advantage over you on this subject, and that’s the advantage of perspective. I have felt most of what you describe - except the part about vanishing migraines. It was a great relationship. It was incredibly intense for both of us. It lasted many years and we overcame a lot of obstacles including geographical and cultural distances. It ended many years ago. Since then I have had relationships which approached that same intensity, but the feeling never lasted. It wasn’t the first time I was in love - nor was it the last.
I’m not disputing the way you feel or the depth of your connection. If you tell me the other person feels the same way, I accept that. What I disagree with is the label - a label which suggests that there is an emotion higher than love and rivals the love between Shrek and Fiona. A connection which is a lot like love, but a little better.
Your method of persuasion is best described as subjective testimony. Given the subject matter, the lack of a laboratory, a total absence of respected authorities or a neutral finder of fact, subjective presentation will have to do. Since the only evidence we have is testimonial, let us use what we have.
I note that the testimony we have heard from all of our posters (most of them ‘pro’) give us conflicting descriptions of this phenomena. This is not an unusual characteristic of subjective or eyewitness testimony, but it should make any rational person wonder. My point: some people say that they felt this soul connection but it’s gone. In fact, most of them said that. You said you don’t understand how that’s possible. Here we have conflicting evidence.
If a soul connection cannot last, what happens to it? You describe it as energy. We all know energy doesn’t end. It changes, but it always changes into something else. It doesn’t just disappear. If I had connection with someone that was more than an emotion, wouldn’t it always be there? If that connection is always there because our souls are truly connected, then all “soul mates” would always stay together. But that’s not case. Accordingly we can deduce that the ‘souls’ changed in all of these cases.
So we have a deep, ephemeral connection between two people which produces positive feelings and reactions in both of them. Like love, it feels good and it hurts. Like love it produces chemical changes in our bodies. Like love it creates an emotionally charged bond. If my personality changes, my relationship might fail because of it. Ditto my feelings, perspectives, circumstances, etc. We know love waxes and wanes and, apparently, so does a soul connection. How is this soul connection any different than love? I submit that it cannot be distinguished from love because it is love.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck why are we calling it a swan? | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 1:45:06 PM | Hey Rune!
I read your most interesting post. Normally, I can't bear to read
peoples long winded thoughts, but I was compelled to read yours!
It shifted my paradigm somewhat on this cold grey day, and I needed
that! Thanks!
I have not experienced what you have, to that level, but it gives
me something to possibly look forward to, beyond this normal
reality, that is growing increasingly boring!
Entities I spoke with explained that, as far as sex goes, there are
sensations that exist within the body, that most have no idea even
exist. And they add, without utilizing mind altering substances!
I am very curious, if I will ever experience these sensations, in this
life time, particularly as I seem to be rather out of tune with sensations
as they relate to energy. My guess, is that your experiences, might
well equip, and prepare you for these others as well, so hang on!!! | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 3:15:15 PM | @rune....WOW, VERY well put into words.
I was unable to come up with words to describe the "feelings"! Although I am no longer with the man I shared that connection with.....the connection is still there. We see each other very rarely and only by chance, but I still think of him and remember very often. In fact, it is a very rare day, that I do NOT think of him....he relates the same to me. I still dream of him on occasion, but I am not stuck there. It's been 6 yrs since that relationship ended. The bond is STRONG, and I know he will be with me, in a sense, forever....again, he says the same. I cannot describe the pain and sense of loss I felt, when we realized we could not remain together physically. The relationship was a challenge and an awakening of sorts, to ALL of our senses! I do not expect to ever have more than what we have at this moment....a silent connection of our hearts and souls. I'm sure I sound a bit "dreamy eyed" and idealistic to most, and I don't often share this side of me. I , too am a very logical minded, analytical and rational woman, but I am still open to the possibility of touching another's soul again....and having them touch mine (my screename sounds so appropriate, here). Prior to meeting him, I know I couldn't have possibly understood the depth of such a relationship......
Wishing everyone who posted to this thread, peace and happiness!
logicalnonsense | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 7:13:32 PM | Rune3... WOW!....... you say it so much better than I ever could! I rarely read long posts, but yours had me spellbound!
Entities I spoke with explained that, as far as sex goes, there are
sensations that exist within the body, that most have no idea even
exist. And they add, without utilizing mind altering substances!
YUP!  | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 10:08:32 PM |
So, how is one to know? My best hunch, is that there
was a Soul connection, but my intellect, tells me that's
just fantasy!
Now Meta-man, how could anyone have anything BUT a soul connection with you? You LIVE in your soul. LOL. | |
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| The touching of SOULS..........
Posted: 1/17/2007 10:26:05 PM | Hello Algy,
<div class="quote">So we have a deep, ephemeral connection between two people which produces positive feelings and reactions in both of them. Like love, it feels good and it hurts. Like love it produces chemical changes in our bodies. Like love it creates an emotionally charged bond. If my personality changes, my relationship might fail because of it. Ditto my feelings, perspectives, circumstances, etc. We know love waxes and wanes and, apparently, so does a soul connection. How is this soul connection any different than love? I submit that it cannot be distinguished from love because it is love.
I believe Love is Love to. And i used to think that i loved people. And have one of the connections that people are talking about here. or resonate with one of them for sure. When is a duck a swan? I am a sensitive person, i feel energy in and around other people and see it flow some times in color rare be the later but incredible when i do. I used to teach reiki and have felt many things but one thing i never felt before with any other human being is their energy flow through me in such a way that my whole body lights up. Infact even in Reiki circles and classes i never felt any such thing but always felt mine flow out of me through my hand usually and on rare occasions from my heart center.
Your right energy does not disappear it is in constant movement and changes quality when it goes into other people. We affect the energy that flows through us and when it enters another person that energy is partly used by their biological self and the rest is emanating around them and entering more people who are open around them and so on.
When we Love some one and are in close proximity the observant person can see this flow I have had the opportunity to see this *smiles* only with one person. A person can fake a lot of things and perhaps even fool another person but one thing that cannot be faked is the flow of energy. it is not something one can project on someone if they are not open. You can see it build up in there heart. I believe in a space that is within the heart a physical space that energy resides and when we hold a space in our heart for someone miracles can happen when the other person enters this space which i also believe is possible. What we put in that space will determine the quality of the relationship. Thoughts hold energy emotions hold energy and these things are constantly being exchanged on more then one level. through expression and through the flow of energy. When two people are congruent within themselves and there expression combined with the energy flow between the two something magical is created.
This can be tested and found to be true. The key is congruency. Another important aspect of this is pure intent combined with clear thought. not just within yourself but your partner. I don't believe that this is evidence of a soul. I do like the idea of a soul but until i experience something that is without a shadow of doubt i will attribute it to the way we are biologically built. this is separate from the chemical highs that some people feel.
Our very biology is designed to do the above and there is scientific studies that can even see the energy flow through us much like the earth and its electromagnetic nature. Northern lights are this flow for us to see much like aura's are on humans. So these soul connections in my opinion are just us humans being exactly what we are made for.
just my thoughts,
crazylilting
Oh forgot to answer
when is a duck a swan. when your energy is in complete harmony with the other person. So your thoughts, feelings, actions, beliefs or complete acceptance of the other persons if there are differences. We don't have to be guru's or spiritually enlightened for this energy to match but when you feel it you know without a shadow of a doubt. Some relationships may be a close match and this is love too there are many shades but i believe the above contains all of the spectrum and allows for anything and everything. | |
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