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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 7:12:25 AM | I believe it to be a part of the general decline of civility in our society. We find ourselves in a world more and more populated by aggressive, self-absorbed individuals who put themselves first and rarely even recognize the existence of others and their rights and privileges. Although you have pointed out such failures in the world of dating, it extends much further.
I often hold doors for people who are entering a building/room behind me and rarely receive a "thank you". I am always amazed at the vast number of people who cough and sneeze and never bother to cover their mouths thereby potentially exposing those around them to harmful microbes and illness. The list goes on and on.
In the dating world, the door swings both ways. I have women friends who issue similar complaints to the ones you have voiced along with others such as: why does he only talk about himself, why doesn't he ask me questions, etc. I meet many women who are more interested in what a man can do for them than in his character. personality, etc. I find that women, too, are reluctant or unable to pay compliments.
I recently met a woman for a drink and she spent 90% of the time picking my brain for professional expertise and once in a while looked at me and said "So, how are you doing?" Needless to say I shortened that date.
It's difficult world to make a match, but there are people with similar worldviews to your own. So keep your head up and plow on. | |
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ya472
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Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 52 | |
| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 7:27:53 AM |
I am always amazed at the vast number of people who cough and sneeze and never bother to cover their mouths
At the coffee shop yesterday, a guy grabs a serviette from the 'condiments counter' and proceeds to stand there and blow his nose.
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCKK !
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 8:02:02 AM | I guess I am very fortunate. My beau is a gentleman to the truest form. When we first started dating, it used to drive him crazy that I would just jump out of the truck or just sit down, etc. He was raised that a gentleman always extended certain courtesies towards women.
So, he sat me down one day and explained his upbringing and wanted to know why I always did these things for myself. I had to think about it. I told him it was habit, most men do not do these types of things, and I was used to just doing them myself.
He told me that if I was not going to be able to let him do these types of things for me, then I was not the woman for him. It was not meant to be a bad threat from him, it is just the way he was raised and it made him feel bad everytime I just went on my own.
It has taken a little time, but the habit is broken. Now he is able to be the gentleman he is and I absolutely love being able to let him do this for me.
I know a lot of women get offended by the traditional male-female roles, but it is nice to just let your hair down and be pampered. Do not be offended. If a man reaches out to open a door for you, let him. He is not meaning it to be insulting or demeaning. It means he took that three seconds necessary to think about you.
So, lets turn this around a bit.....What are some of the traditional female courtesies women should be extending towards men? | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 8:37:51 AM | >>At the coffee shop yesterday, a guy grabs a serviette from the 'condiments counter' and proceeds to stand there and blow his nose.
Please consider that for severe allergy sufferers, it is not always possible to never blow one's nose in public.
Also, if that hand he covers his mouth with is the one he shakes your hand with later, maybe he is doing you a favor by not covering his mouth.
And thirdly, allergies aren't contagious--so not every person who coughs or sneezes around you is a threat to your health.
Sometimes, what are considered "manners" are just out of date social rules that no longer make sense. For example, the reason it is considered rude to expectorate in public has to do with the once common disease tuberculosis.
In fact, it used to be illegal in some places to expectorate onto the sidewalk, because of the fear of this disease.
Nowadays, an allergy sufferer can't expectorate (even if he swallows it) without getting dirty looks--all because of a disease that is now very rare. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 11:05:25 AM |
Also, if that hand he covers his mouth with is the one he shakes your hand with later, maybe he is doing you a favor by not covering his mouth.
Which is why it makes sense to cough into the crook in your elbow. At least if one coughs into his or her own hand, any potential germs are not endangering ALL of those in the vicinity.
And thirdly, allergies aren't contagious--so not every person who coughs or sneezes around you is a threat to your health.
Fortunately, high school science taught us that one may be contagious and not know it. Accordingly, it is always courteous to cover up and protect others from the spread of potentially dangerous microbes.
And as far as spitting in public, is your point that it is not distasteful to observe even if there are no disease implications? | |
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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 56 | |
| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 11:59:17 AM |
I don't think many women appreciate chivalry anymore. They see it as weakness I 100% agree. I know and have seen a LOT of women treat men like shit. I know that a lot of women EXPECT a man to earn their respect, but they expect a man to treat them like a queen no matter what (the sad thing is, these are usually the women that have men fauning over them, go figure). I don't respect people who don't deserve it.
Smith: I don't think the guy's problem was that the man was blowing his nose in public (I am assuming, yes), but that he did it over the condiments.
As for the hand not covering his mouth, he could cough or sneeze into the crook of his elbow.
As for allergies not being contagious, no, they're not, but who wants to touch or ingest someone else's phlegm? Gross.
the reason it is considered rude to expectorate in public ...OOOORRRR, it could be because it's disgusting...I don't want to look at other people's loogies. Makes me gag just thinking about it.
Not picking at ya, just think there are some times when it's simply common courtesy to be a little discreet. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 12:24:31 PM | OMG . . . . what has this world come to?
Does a relationship depend on who opens the door? Does a relationship depend on the FIRST impression of a guy or a gal?
Yes, there are women out there that have their focus on “self”( I want this or that or must have this or that). . . . move on guys.
Yes, there are women that do not UNDERSTAND that a man’s little gestures (takes your car to get washed, call you in the middle of the day, “ask you want you want to do”, etc., etc., etc.) are his form of showing affection and/or being caring. . . . move on guys.
Yes, there are guys that have become frustrated and even bitter because women don’t understand “how simple men really are”. . . move on gals.
Yes, there are men and women that are opportunists . . . move on folks.
What you have suffered, endured, have been putted through hell by whomever . . . . . does not give you the right to place blame on others for your UNFORTUNATE outlook in life NOW!
You can allow life to knock you know and become bitter and self-centered or you can take responsibility and learn from adversity and move on with a positive outlook in life.
YOU ARE NEGATIVE . . . . ALL will be NEGATIVE!
YOU ARE POSTIVE . . . . YOU will see the GOOD in little things that women and men can do.
Best of luck,
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 12:37:28 PM | I'm going to agree with Subotai, waaaaay back on page 1.
I do open doors for women, be it someone I'm dating (hypothetically, of course), my sister, my grandmother, or some person who is walking to the same door I am. The reason I do it is because my mama taught me to, and I generally have to make a conscious decision to stop doing it.
That being said, I don't think my generation was really taught such things, so nobody does it. I've noticed that only members of the generations before mine ever seem to notice if I open a door for them. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 2:20:23 PM | After reading through most of the posts...
It has become apparent that this lack of chivalry may be just part of a bigger picture...that being the lack of social graces in society as a whole. This is not gender specific.
I see children today that NEVER say thank you or excuse me. I see people that chew with their mouths open. I see people who, as has been previously posted ,cough and sneeze without covering their mouths...
I feel like the odd person out because frankly this stuff is important to me. It's not a matter of good or bad treatment in a relationship, it's really a matter of being considerate and respectful of others despite what your gender is.
I was being a bit narrow minded when relating some of this just to you guys.
Thank you all for your posts...
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 3:03:49 PM | | I believe the confusion lies in the difference between good maners and equality. When a man opens the door for me and helps me on with my coat it somehow makes me feel more feminin. I relinquish none of my so called "power" as an equal it's just good manners. A gentleman that compliments a woman is soooooooooooo very nice. A sure way to get laid too. (that's inside womanspeak) | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 10:16:43 PM | I quit opening doors, because I got tired of being snapped at with, "I can get my own door."
I quit paying the bill, because I was tired of being called "Controlling" or that I "Must be expecting something".
I quit complimenting a girl on her shoes, jacket, smile, ear rings, or necklace because I was tired of being accused of, "Being a player."
Ladies - if you want men to be gentlemen again - quit putting us down when we try.
Thank you
The management | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/14/2007 11:06:19 PM | Everyone has some truth here. I think there is also a lot of confusion. This is my first post on this site so bear with me if I blunder.
I think the ground rules are guys and gals freely choose to date and there are no set standards. All is fair in love and war and dating. We should adapt to evolution of the dating scene which means accepting confused standards right now. We should state our desires to our date and not assume anything; your expectations have nothing to do with what your date should do as they are YOUR assumptions. Nothing is owed to your date - not sex nor holding doors. You are not doing them a favor by going out with them. There are no queens, princesses, or knights in shining armor. A date is a shared event by two people for their mutual enjoyment.
With all that in mind, let me say that proper ettiquette would make the world a nicer place but mostly it indicates a person's social and moral preference. Please everybody just start by doing what you feel good about doing. If your date irritates you, simply ask your date for a certain behavior and they may be anxious to grant your wish.
And one more complaint:
Guys please don't beg, bully, or buy your girl - be mature men.
Girls please drop the "we control sex" game as logically we can see guys have sex just as often as girls.
Just date, have fun, and enjoy the male/female energy of your partner. It's about the process - not about any end goal. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/15/2007 4:22:57 PM | All you boys complaining that you get crapped on for doing something nice, are NOT gentlemen. Doing nice things does not a gentleman make.
A gentleman is chivalrous because he IS and WANTS TO be that way. There is no other reason. He is not like that because it's what society wants, because it's some sort of fantasy, because it's proper, because he should act that way, none of those excuses.
For a gentleman the act itself is the reward, not the reaction of the person you are doing it for.
Who gives a damn if they ignore you or snap at you? They are probably just having a bad day, and frankly that is none of your besiness. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 1:03:12 AM | I hear many women who say they appreciate chivarly. But the thing is, I don't do this to impress women. It's just who I am. I open doors or hold them open for anyone, anywhere, anytime. I generally try to be kind, and polite, and helpful to anyone I meet. They don't have to be a woman I am romantically interested in.
I really do feel that this is a lost art in todays world- both men and women just are not as polite kind and nice as in the past. There are still many people I encounter who are very nice, and I enjoy seeing it, I don't mean to say that the world is going to hell in a handbasket, I just see it slipping a little more as time goes by.
Let me set a scene to show how i feel about this- Let's say I'm in a public place and I see three women- one is an older lady, with her arms full of groceries, one is a bombshell gorgeous type, one is an ordinary girl next door type, with a few kids in tow.
the old lady reaches the door, and needs help. The gorgeous woman whips out her cell phone and takes a call and stands there. The mom whispers to her little girl to go hold the door for the older lady. The little girl runs up and holds the door open for the older lady, who smiles. The little girl beams at her, and the mom gives the girl a big smile and hug, and praises her daughter.
The foxy lady with the cellphone is completely forgotten. I'm interested in the the mom, who was thoughtful enough to send her daughter to help, has clearly taught her daughter the importance of kindness, and reinforces the behaviour with love.
The hot sexy model type with the cellphone expensive warddrobe and designer sunglasses Just turned me off because she couldn't be bothered to stop and help someone in need, however briefly.
But the kind-hearted mom with her hair in a messy ponytail, no makeup, adorable kids, and a great smile? I'm going to walk up to her and tell her how impressed I was that she has taught her child well. And give her a big smile. And then get nervous and chicken out without asking for her number.
But I'll be thinking about her on the drive home. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 1:24:42 AM | Men often stop that sort of thing once they reeled you in. It's the ol bait and switch.
Often in the courting phase the people involved put on facades. Once settled in the relationship is when they let who they truly are out of the bag. It's at this time that they seem different. Which is funny, because they are being their genuine self then.
Acting like a gentleman has never got me anywhere with women. Unless a woman just happens to see me do those sorts of things for my GF. Its only a turn on for many women when they see someone they don't have do it for someone that isn't them.
I open doors for people (and other animals too), not just one sex. I pay people compliments, not just one sex. I also critique too:) I do what I feel is appropriate given who I want to be and let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately, this doesn't work in getting myself out of being single. Many guys know to not do the nice guy thing. It usually doesn't get them laid, so they act aloof and**** instead.
The day women stop dating jerks (or staying with them once they turn into the jerk they hid from you) is the day that many men start acting a lot nicer to women. There's a saying that chivalry is dead, and women killed it. There's at least a little bit of truth to that. If men weren't rewarded for being jerks, or allowed to get away with it as easily as many women let them, they wouldn't be such pricks.
Note: I am aware that there are some women who appreciate nice gestures. Often the ones that have had enough of jerks and have been hurt real bad. They weren't always that way most likely. So if you are one of them, great. However, let us know if you've been hurt before and whether or not you think that's why you like gentlemen today. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 7:03:24 AM | I prefer a gentleman because I appreciate all those sweet kind gestures...opening the door, helping me with my coat, carrying my backpack, asking me if there is something I would like to do, helping me with things that I can't do by myself...the list is pretty much endless. For the first time in my life the man I am with is a true gentleman and that means so much more to me than money, material possessions, or social status.
As for being hurt...I have been hurt alot of times. Who hasn't been. Everyone responds differently. Some women become angry and bitter...as for me I want a simple peaceful life so I let all the past hurts go and appreciate everything and everyone I have in my life. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 7:28:50 AM | | I find alot of women don't appreciate being treated well. Alot see guys that give compliments as weak or boring or trying to win them over by flattering them. I've talked to women about this, and they ALL say they like being treated well but their actions show something else. They complain about their boyfriends/husbands not listening, not communicating, not being romantic etc etc. That tells me they really don't respect a man who really treats them well. I have found that many women like a "challenge" and once you let them know you are very interested in them by treating them well, watch them become bored and unresponsive.becaue you are no longer a challenge or mystery. I have also found that many women thrive on conflict and drama and treating them well just doesn't work. I have found that for many women, if you treat them well you will be put in the dreaded "nice guy" zone and they'll just want to be "friends" with you. So, to answer the original post about men being gentlemen by giving compliment and other forgotten traits, I have found we haven't forgotten them, it's just that many (maybe most) women just don't respond to it. Being a gentleman will not bring out their attraction to you but will push most away. The reason as far as I can tell for so many women being abused either physically or emotionaly for months and months or years and years is apparently because that's what they want, or I should say, that's what they respond to over being treated like a lady. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 7:36:17 AM | | MDNinja - you are a nasty dude!!!!!! I think there should be training schools for politeness and manners and that you should get a free scholarship. If a scholarship is not available I'll pay your way. Yours is a desperate case! | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 7:52:15 AM | ^^^ anakris...I am confused.
MDNinja said :
"A gentleman is chivalrous because he IS and WANTS TO be that way. There is no other reason. He is not like that because it's what society wants, because it's some sort of fantasy, because it's proper, because he should act that way, none of those excuses.
For a gentleman the act itself is the reward, not the reaction of the person you are doing it for. "
He doesnt need a training school...he views it as an innate characteristic of being a gentleman and he doesn't worry about the reaction just that he obviously feels good doing what hes doing.
To me, it shows an empathy to the person. Showing concern that they are comfortable. A lot of our manners are borne of our North american customs. These are not the same all over the world. I can say most of the men I had dated have had good manners and as to why its starts to change after you get comfortable with each other? Well, I think other concerns take priority. When you live together and you are rushing to the shops, you don't expect your partner to open the door for you all the time. | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 8:51:07 AM | | I must apologize to MDNinja- there were two separate Posts from him and I only saw and responded to the first one. The second one yes, was very different and much more empathetic. I tried to "edit" my Post but apparently it had already gone through. Next time I will read all Posts on a topic before responding. Sorry about that! | |
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| Compliments, being a gentlemen and other forgotton traits..
Posted: 1/17/2007 9:14:56 AM | | NO chivalry is not dead you just need to find that kind of man.Most women seem to like the rude guys.The ones that treat them bad.And if manners means never to have another date.Then thats fine but i wont give up the manners i've been taught.Chivalry does not make a woman less.But shows your true appreciation for that lady. | |
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