| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:06:37 AM |
Tbh the social services are dammd if they do and dammd if they dont. and its such a big organisation mistakes will always happen
But the difference is, these mistakes cost lives of innocent children.
SS do tend to go for the easy cases, instead of focusing on the difficult ones where there might be lots of red tape and actual hard work involved, not following things up and the like.
People should only become Social Workers if they are willing to follow things through 100%
That poor starving girl and her siblings who had been eating bread crumbs left out for the birds is just one example. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:01:12 AM | | True msg51 but it does reflect how society is changing at the moment and if its not happening to me i dont care attitude. how many times have old or vunrable ppl been left for dead? when all it takes a neighbours concern | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 8:07:51 AM |
that's not what i am saying at all. there are many children who are perfectly safe and loved who have been involved with childrens services, because they need support in other areas.
And the reason for taking me away from my mother was? I still have not recived any answers on how having a difrent religion is considered enough risk to take a child away from thier parents?
i am saying that people who have had involvement with childrens services because they didn't provide safety or protection for their children, will obviously not have enjoyed the experience and will therefore think of it in a negative light.
And waht about those of us who rember the way we were treated by social services as children? Not all of the posters here are mothers who have had problems with social services, some of us are adults who remember the fear of social services involvment in our family for no reason at all.
Could someone please tell me how social services have changed in the last twenty years? I would really like some assurance that the things that they did to me and my familly as a child will not happen to any familly that I chose to have.
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 8:14:23 AM | that's not what i am saying at all. there are many children who are perfectly safe and loved who have been involved with childrens services, because they need support in other areas.
i am saying that people who have had involvement with childrens services because they didn't provide safety or protection for their children, will obviously not have enjoyed the experience and will therefore think of it in a negative light.
I apologise, the first statement led me to believe what you were saying differently.
What people forget is there are different teams in SS departments I have had excellent support from the children's disabilities team. I should view them all in a positive light?
The children's disabilities team i do. As far as i can make out any other team either doesn't have the funds to offer support, such as the team that would work with the elderly. Or the teams such as families team, they have a quota to meet. they do it in the most appalling of manors. Of all the SW i have met in this field, and trust me, through my line of work i have met more then enough, I can 't say a good word about any of them.
If a child is put on the at risk register or put in to care the parent is treated with disdain, contempt and lack of respect of a fellow human being, the 'ideal' is to re home the child with the family if its safe, i have seen this been refused simply because of a breed of dog the family has.
I have seen reports where a parent has 'marked' the child while the child was bathing, what was not mentioned and later became a apparent when the report was questioned by the parents in CC was the parent was grabbing the child in a reaction to stop him form going under water as he slipped back, and the mark had disappeared before the child was out of the bath.
I have also heard a SW make the comment before a case conference. 'We are social services. The panel will go with what we say'. Very professional.
The families team, have different aims and objectives. They have a quota to meet and to be honest, meet them in the most appalling ways.
Could someone please tell me how social services have changed in the last twenty years? I would really like some assurance that the things that they did to me and my familly as a child will not happen to any familly that I chose to have.
No one can, because they haven't, they are still the same, there is just more paper work and red tape for a parent to go through. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:24:38 AM | "No one can, because they haven't,"
Are you absolutely sure about that?
the Children act 2004 is one thing that leaps out as being quite obvious not to mention reams of other legislation covering all other areas of social work.
CRB checks?
GSCC registration? | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 10:56:58 AM |
SS do tend to go for the easy cases, instead of focusing on the difficult ones where there might be lots of red tape and actual hard work involved, not following things up and the like
You hear of how many tragedies every year…? Yes the occasional one does slip through, but do you honestly believe that these are the only difficult cases? These tragedies are not indicative of statistics. You don’t ever hear about the good job that ss are doing. If you are going to make statements like this, then you should back it up with some kind of reference.
And the reason for taking me away from my mother was? I still have not recived any answers on how having a different religion is considered enough risk to take a child away from thier parents?
You have every right to see your files. Why don’t you put in a request? Just beware, you may find out information that you didn’t want….
And waht about those of us who rember the way we were treated by social services as children? Not all of the posters here are mothers who have had problems with social services, some of us are adults who remember the fear of social services involvment in our family for no reason at all.
Are you sure your memories are representative of actual events? Again, your files…..
Could someone please tell me how social services have changed in the last twenty years? I would really like some assurance that the things that they did to me and my familly as a child will not happen to any familly that I chose to have.
Do the research yourself. A good place to start is the Every Child Matters paper which bought about the Children Act 2004. Victoria Climbe and other children didn’t die in vain. Their death bought about a massive change.
Much of the information in this thread is hearsay… everybody has a story to tell, but it’s normally not their story and has very little evidential facts.
Maybe someone could give more details of these quotas and targets regarding the adoption and placement of children???? I think you will find the targets are regarding children at risk who are already in care. The targets are to keep kiddies out of care or to have them placed in the minimum amount of placements for the maximum amount of time. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:17:22 AM | | id just like to say as someone who has had a social worker and as someone who also knows one very personally what a huge complete crock of shit! why do people buy into this scare mongering its people writing rubbish like this that makes younge or vunerable people not ask for help when its needed | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:24:10 AM | message 59.. pullmycrackers...
id just like to say as someone who has had a social worker and as someone who also knows one very personally what a huge complete crock of shit! why do people buy into this scare mongering its people writing rubbish like this that makes younge or vunerable people not ask for help when its needed
you rock girl!!!
what a potent message.
excellent - you said everything that needed to be said
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 1:41:57 PM |
You hear of how many tragedies every year…? Yes the occasional one does slip through, but do you honestly believe that these are the only difficult cases? These tragedies are not indicative of statistics. You don’t ever hear about the good job that ss are doing. If you are going to make statements like this, then you should back it up with some kind of reference.
"one occasional slip"!!!!!!
Excuse me, those poor children left to starve and forage for breadcrumbs were a FAMILY of more than one child.
Victoria Columbie (spelled wrong no doubt)
Shannon Matthews
The children over the road from me who had a few visits from social workers but left until they were so severely neglected and beaten that they were in horrendous condition.
d just like to say as someone who has had a social worker and as someone who also knows one very personally what a huge complete crock of shit! why do people buy into this scare mongering its people writing rubbish like this that makes younge or vunerable people not ask for help when its needed
Horse crap!
Tell that to my sister who had the Social Worker SHE ASKED FOR so that her disabled son could have a designated parking space for him outside their house who a couple of years later decided to report my sister for "Burning cigarettes" on Matthews legs when it was actually Impetigo!
And while you are at it, tell her why Social Services failed her when she literally begged, in tears, for help to get her daughter seen by CAMS and for them to help her there... She waited such a long time for help that by the time they got to see the specialist my niece was at an age where she only said what they wanted to hear, that she was "fine" when in truth she wasn't. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:01:32 PM | I was wondering how long it would take before Victoria was mentioned, bother to read that paper? The reason why it was made? It wasn't just a slip by SS, there where 9 statutory (i think, its been quite a while since i read it) agencies involved, she was a difficult case, they walked away. How many of the points raised in the report have been implemented by SS teams across the country??
i'd just like to say as someone who has had a social worker and as someone who also knows one very personally what a huge complete crock of shit! why do people buy into this scare mongering its people writing rubbish like this that makes younge or vunerable people not ask for help when its needed
Im sorry, i too have had personal experience of the families team, i know several workers personally. I also know hundreds of families that have also had experience, some justified, a majority, no, they are not. Its when young vulnerable women do ask for help that the risk is increased. They have little money, a child on the at risk register increases the money in the pot.
I do know what i am talking about and as for the first few posts on the matter, look up the names of the organisations, do a little research. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:40:03 PM | MSG 59
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1024222/Social-worker-sacked-Victoria-Climbie-scandal-wins-right-work-children-again.html
Social worker sacked after Victoria Climbie scandal wins right to work with children again
A tribunal ruled yesterday that Lisa Arthurworrey should not be banned from social work despite her failures that contributed to the eight-year-old girl's death.
The decision was greeted with dismay by the General Social Care Council, the social work
These included the 44 faults found with her work by the official inquiry into Victoria's murder, two recent criminal convictions for harassment of her neighbours and failing to disclose vital information about her recent career to the tribunal.
Miss Arthurworrey was the junior social worker in Haringey, North London, who was responsible for Victoria's welfare.
When Victoria was found in February 2000, her body bore 128 injuries. She spent her final weeks lying in a bath, freezing and bound head and foot inside a binbag.
Lord Laming's inquiry found in 2003 that hospitals, police and social workers missed 12 opportunities to rescue Victoria.
Miss Arthurworrey, now 38, was in charge of Victoria's welfare for 211 days, in which time she made four visits to her home and held conversations that went no further than 'Hello, how are you?'
After the girl's death, Miss Arthurworrey was sacked, lost an employment tribunal case to win her job back and was banned from social work.
Three years ago, however, a Care Standards Tribunal said she was 'another victim' of the scandal and should be allowed to work in child protection.
Miss Arthurworrey was backed by her union, the British Association of Social Workers, in bringing the case.
Well so much for scare mungering...Lets hope my 2 girls or anyone elses doesn't get this TWAT
MSG 60
what a potent message.
excellent - you said everything that needed to be said ...except the truth | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:59:53 PM | "Lord Laming's inquiry found in 2003 that hospitals, police and social workers missed 12 opportunities to rescue Victoria. "
and who got sacked? how many nurses, doctors, police also got sacked?
the daily mail isnt a robust academic paper | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:19:10 PM |
The children over the road from me who had a few visits from social workers but left until they were so severely neglected and beaten that they were in horrendous condition.
So where were you when this was happening then??? You take no responsibility for these children??? Grow up for goodness sake. What do you think social workers are? superman?? As a member of the community it’s your responsibility to look out for children as well.
a child on the at risk register increases the money in the pot.
In recent years there has been a huge drive to reduce children on the risk register. The concept that the local authorities put children on the register just to receive extra funding is laughable. Where is your evidence?
With no disrespect to Victoria, it should be borne in mind that she died almost 8 years ago. There has been lots of changes since then, and yes there has been huge improvements.
The daily mail…???
With regards to the dismissal/re-employment of the social worker…. If I am correct, there were roundabout 34 different people involved with Victoria and her care, teachers, doctors, nurses, police etc…. How can one person be held responsible?
Message 59 had a very valid point. People constantly slating the local authorities is going to have a knock on effect and put people off contacting them. They do a huge amount of good work and work to the best of their abilities given the resources available. I think you should remember that they are also human and carry a huge load.
If you lot can do a better job, then why aren’t you out there doing it??? | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:22:56 PM |
So where were you when this was happening then??? You take no responsibility for these children??? Grow up for goodness sake. What do you think social workers are? superman?? As a member of the community it’s your responsibility to look out for children as well.
Considering they were kept indoors and NO ONE KNEW of their condition UNTIL AFTER THEY WERE TAKEN AWAY then YES i take NO RESPONSIBILITY WHATSOEVER!!!
Grow up for goodness sake. What do you think social workers are?
For one, do not patronise me.
For two, i think social workers are people that are PAID TO LOOK OUT FOR THE WELFARE OF CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:33:55 PM |
Considering they were kept indoors and NO ONE KNEW of their condition UNTIL AFTER THEY WERE TAKEN AWAY then YES i take NO RESPONSIBILITY WHATSOEVER!!!
so what do you expect social workers to do then??? sniff them out?????
you lived next to them and didn't know they were being abused, so how do you expect the local authority to know?
i think social workers are people that are PAID TO LOOK OUT FOR THE WELFARE OF CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is absolute rubbish!!! it is yours, mine and everybodies job to look out for the welfare of OUR children.
it's attitudes like this that put children in danger. take some responsibility and stop passing the buck!!!! | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:47:23 PM | What are social workers paid to do then when working in child protection field?
this is absolute rubbish!!! it is yours, mine and everybodies job to look out for the welfare of OUR children.
it's attitudes like this that put children in danger. take some responsibility and stop passing the buck!!!!
FYI they lived OVER THE ROAD from me, not next to me. I only found out that they had been taken away after the event, the health visitor had reported them!
I only found out as a friend of mine actually worked for Social Services... yeah she told me, so much for confidentiality eh? No longer friends but not related to that.
If i was to see a child i believed to be in a state of neglect then without a doubt i would report them, fat lot of good it would probably be though!!
Another thing about Social Workers, they all stick together and cover each others arses. Regardless of why that person is in "trouble" they all stick together!!
I might f*ck up now and then at work but at least my mistakes only mean a cheque doesnt get allocated to invoices but instead sits on an account....
If someone wants to play hero then do it properly and see it through from start to finish!! | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:47:52 PM | @ msg 67 (a bit late though haha) well it would be lovely if each and everyone of us had received the same education and training as your average social worker but that isnt't the reality.
and msg 61 did state that the particular family she mentioned had visits from a social worker prior to the children's condition deteriorating so badly they had to be taken from their home.
Thinking about it now though, it does sound as if quite possibly the ordinary man/woman on the street would know more than most social workers are proven to by their bad record in dealing with families and actually helping them.
But I don't live in the UK so I don't have personal experience of Social Services there.
Over here..the Health Services Executive have recently been found guilty of not being able to account for 400 children who came here recently as refugees...that's shocking and actually unconscionable...it would make you wonder what exactly are social workers being paid for after all. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 3:56:12 PM | MSG 64
and who got sacked? how many nurses, doctors, police also got sacked?
The police doctors and nurses did their job and reported the poor child to social services. They have no further powers. It was Social Services that fcuked up and 1 person in particular and you can all be reasured that she is now happily looking after the well being of some of our more vunerable children.
the daily mail isnt a robust academic paper
Oh I am sorry...just i thought most of you bone heads on hear read that. Maybe these would be more suited.
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/2008/04/11/107871/care-council-for-wales-bars-social-worker-for-catalogue-of-failings.html
The Care Council for Wales has struck off a social worker for serious and repeated misconduct.
A conduct committee found that David Llewellyn Edwards, who previously worked for Blaenau Gwent Council, was guilty of 15 charges of misconduct. These included a “repeated catalogue of omissions and failures in providing basic assessments and support to vulnerable children”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/nov/11/deniscampbell.healthNovember 11 2007
Doctors and nurses say specialist social workers are overworked and often reluctant to intervene, even if it is thought children are likely to suffer further harm.
Last week James Craig, 26, and Sharma Dookhooah, 25, of Romford, Essex, were each jailed for five years after admitting causing or allowing the death of their 10-month-old son Neo. Their Old Bailey trial heard that there had been a series of failings by police, doctors and social workers who knew about the boy's 'derelict' home life but did not intervene, despite a number of warnings
http://www.birminghampost.net/comment/birmingham-columnists/2008/05/27/john-hemming-time-to-probe-failings-of-child-protection-65233-20980290/
A number of Members of Parliament are very concerned about the way in which the system maltreats people.
What the cases of Khyra Ishaq and the others demonstrate is that having an over-aggressive system of "child protection" doesn't actually protect children.
It has to start with a recognition that the secrecy of the Family Courts underpins the lack of accountability in the system.
http://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol14No2/StateSanctionedKidnapping.htm
In 1998, Susan gave birth by caesarean section to a baby girl. Rochdale Social Services obtained an emergency care order and, six hours after the birth, they snatched her baby. Her obstetrician pleaded with them to wait until she had improved physically; her blood pressure was very high and he was worried that any further stress could kill her. Rochdale Social Services, having no concern for the woman's health and the trauma the removal of her baby would cause, ignored this advice and took her baby anyway.
It appears that there are no sanctions that can be applied to the Rochdale social workers, who showed little consideration for the wellbeing of this family.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/02/02/do0208.xml
Two hours after the 18-year-old had delivered her healthy son at 4am on Wednesday, social workers from Nottingham City Council walked into the maternity unit and showed nursing staff the "birth plan" drawn up for Baby G by the "local safeguarding children board".
Having shown their bit of paper, they walked out into the night with the baby.
The independent chairwoman of Nottingham's safeguarding children board said on Thursday that plans to snatch neonates from the delivery room "are very difficult decisions to make and to implement, and require great sensitivity by all the professionals involved".
At the High Court on Thursday, Mr Justice Munby, who ordered the baby to be given back to its mother immediately, didn't seem too worried about showing "great sensitivity" in his loaded language.
He said the removal, without a court order or police presence, was "on the face of it" unlawful. He said no baby could be removed simply "as the result of a decision taken by officials in some room".
We know now that Nottingham social services have obtained their court order (from the county court) and Baby G is safely in local authority foster care. We know that Nottingham City Council will "continue to prioritise the baby's welfare and continuing support for his mother".
I could go on and on and on here. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/10/2008 4:05:18 PM |
If someone wants to play hero then do it properly and see it through from start to finish!!
ok then. tell me... how do they do this? you are obviously very knowledgeable and i think you stated that you've had involvement. just how do they go about seeing it through from start to finish???
please explain, what is it that they actually do wrong? tell me what can they do to improve their practice? how do they go about doing this?
i think your expectations are very commendable, please explain to me what it is you want changing? use your neighbours, across the road, as an example. how would you have gone about saving this family? what would you have done different?
and please no generalised statements, try and be specific. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/11/2008 1:58:05 AM | What are they doing wrong? Your having a laugh. You honestly think they are not fallible? That they are meeting the targets set by the government in the most unthinkable of ways? You don't think that the complaints against SW would go through the roof should the secrecy of these court actions be lifted?? I could reel of a list as long as my arm, I have had times when they have tried to intimidate me out of a meetings alone, except knowing the basics means i know what they can and can't do, i have seen them abuse there power against vulnerable people. Sometimes, more often then we would like to believe it goes a step further.
Probably one of the best sites i have been on regarding this, they are linked int he initial post.
http://www.fassit.co.uk/family_courts_secretprisons.htm
http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp
It may seem unreal, and hard hitting, but when you witness it first hand, you can believe it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1556114/System-taking-hundreds-of-babies-for-adoption.html
The courts also rule on bids by councils to put removed children up for adoption, which is irreversible. Yet, while criminal cases must be proved beyond reasonable doubt, family courts take decisions on the balance of probabilities and unlike criminal courts, cases are heard in strict secrecy. A mother whose child is taken from her commits an offence if she tells anyone outside a tiny, approved list of people.
General reading.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article3021139.ece
SS work on a sliding scale in most cases, get the problem in time and there is no need for such intervening. A mother with PNI may ask for support, there is no funding available, her mental heath deteriorates, it gets so bad that SS then decide that she isn't fit to look after them. They feel the children are now at risk from emotional abuse and they remove them from her care. , Cost approx £1,800 a week for a minimum of 12 weeks (the shortest amount of time a child is on the at risk register for) . vs Early stage intervention of 2 hours of support @? £20 per week, mothers condition with support improves and thus no more intervention is needed. Children stay with their parents/ mother.
I think one of the most outrageous things, is the claim for placing a child in care due to a risk of emotional harm. What? I would love a child that has been brought up in the care system to point out to me that they have never suffered any form of emotional harm. Yet it is a valid reason for a child to be placed on the register.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1584940/Cash-prize-for-council-that-hit-adoption-targets.html
When a cash incentive is offered that means the department gets more funding, you honestly thing its down to just red tape?
I know its not directed at me, but what do i want changing? I want better training for all involved in child care, i want SW mandatory courses to be more intense, SW to be more focused on reintegrating families then meeting adoption targets. Ever noticed how more teenagers and older children are reintegrated to families then babies are? never questioned it? Babies are easy to adopt.
 Most of all, i want family court hearings to be conducted in public.
Edit,
AIMS has been quoted above. Jean Robinson did a report. look it up. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/11/2008 2:49:13 AM | | you make it sound like all these kids are taken from model parents when they are not you seem to be on a crusade here, social serves arnt perfect they are human beings and they make mistakes but dam for every one mistake there will be thousands of succsessfull cases closed get over it. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:10:24 AM | "Oh I am sorry...just i thought most of you bone heads on hear read that..."
absolutely top drawer stuff...bone heads lmfao! | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:13:24 AM | Did i say all? I don't remember saying that at all.
What do you deem as a successful case?
I think when your a person clearing up the mass of destruction they leave behind, it leaves you with a tainted view.
you got lucky with your SW, not everyone does. Open your eyes to the possibility that some in the families teams are far from perfect. Some, dare i say it, most of those i have seen practice are manipulative bullies. Get over it. | |
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| Social Services - Abuse of Power?
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:19:22 AM | "What do you deem as a successful case? "
probably one of the many many cases were social workers intervened, possibly involving removing children and consequently possibly saving lives and halting suffering, however you wont have heard of any of these because they are never reported in THE SUN | |
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