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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/22/2007 11:43:41 AM | The biggest problem with converting to alternative energy is the fossil fuel business itself; which has a tight hold on our political leaders through campaign contributions and the current setup; which makes our whole economic system almost exclusively dependant upon them.
For example, without sufficient quantities of fuel, even our military could not function.
The fossil fuel industry is so powerful it can grab the US government by the nose and pull it wherever it wants it to go; either covertly, as today with Bush's whole administration, or overtly, as during the gas crunch of the seventies when they dumped oil on the desert to keep it scarce.
In the nineties, alot of alternative energy vehicles were bought, but the owners were unable to use them because the oil companies owned all the energy sources for them. Today, they sit rusting in driveways, parking lots and auto wrecking yards.
There's dam little one person can do about the energy problem without the government taking a lead role. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/22/2007 6:48:51 PM | You can give away my 1997 Grand Cherokee...when you pry away my cold, dead fingers from my fu**in steering wheel!
This war isn't about the damn oil in the first place, geez! And even if it WAS, my jeep is my ONLY means of transportation! What do you want me to do, walk two miles each way uphill and downhill to and from the stupid bus stop every day?
Oh, that's right! City buses are gas guzzlers too! So are the city taxis, which are the not-all-too-fuel-conserving Ford LTD's and Crown Victoria's! Take away the guzzling metro train system as well, and you got 150,000 pissed-off people with no way of getting to work each day, no problem! I guess that since OIL is the only reason keeping us in the stupid Middle East, we should all abandon our vehicles and walk to work in the dead of winter! And because the business industry relies on a lot of people to travel cross-country for meetings and merger sessions, let's take away their airliners too, so all the companies can lose millions of dollars on business deals never made, raising the unemployment rate and shattering our economy!
There is still a lot of people who think that OIL is the main reason for the "war" in Iraq. They should try thinking realistically and stop trying to demean and slander people who have no choice but to drive SUV's as their only means of transportation. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/22/2007 9:00:02 PM |
Ya might want to think about changing your profile, if things didn't work out with that boyfriend it says you're so happy with.
LOL she is a girlfriend of mine :P Look in my picture that is her.
There's dam little one person can do about the energy problem without the government taking a lead role.
LIES!!!!!!! the government has little or nothing to do with most of the alternative fuel options that are out there. There are plenty that are viable they are just not well known about. That is what you should being asking about. Why is it that when people come up with things that do work well they are hidden. We have not needed Gasoline to run cars in some time. They only need to be produced and planned properly by the auto companies and fuel suppliers. People the smartest thing we can do is research the topic and start our own stuff and not wait for the governement to do anything. Make them play catch up to us and the game gets flipped. Government dont need to stick its nose in it unless they want to put the oil companies in check and fine them for their monopoly tactics.
What do you want me to do, walk two miles each way uphill and downhill to and from the stupid bus stop every day?
Why not? GREAT for your health.
Oh, that's right! City buses are gas guzzlers too!
Not in Atlanta they don't run on diesel or gasoline.. The rail system runs on electric and they use the power movement of the one train to give power to the one on the other side to make them more efficient. The buses run on natural gas. There are plenty more things that can be done we just have to not live in a capitalistic system that counts on things breaking, so that people have to buy more. Example the first light bulb invented still works. Why does mine pop every 6 months? Capitalism impedes progress by its nature due to its need to have consumers who constanly have to buy new things to keep things afloat. Better to make something that can be upgraded and repaired than to make everything flimsy and throw away. This is most of the problems with everything wrong with the world at this time really. Its all about $$ instead of things that are more important like having a planet to spend the $$ on....
Here is a short list of alternative fuel for transportation...
* Alcohols - ethanol and methanol.
* Compressed natural gas (CNG) - natural gas under high pressure.
* Electricity - stored in batteries.
* Hydrogen - a very special type of gas.
* Liquefied natural gas (LNG) - natural gas that is very, very cold.
* Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) (also called propane) - hydrocarbon gases under low pressure.
* Liquids made from coal - gasoline and diesel fuel that doesn't come from petroleum.
* Biodiesel - a lot like diesel fuel, but made from plant oil or animal fat.
* steam powered
* Prototype car runs 100 miles on four ounces of water as fuel
YES WATER
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128967/water_as_fuel/
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/23/2007 8:47:07 AM |
There's dam little one person can do about the energy problem without the government taking a lead role.
*************************************************************
LIES!!!!!!! the government has little or nothing to do with most of the alternative fuel options that are out there.
There was no intent to lie.
if you can prove me wrong, that's one thing; but I'm not trying to deceive anyone...
My point is that the fossil fuel energy companies and investment conglomerates who derive great profits from the sale of fossil fuels also own most of the patents and industrial infrastructure that could be used to change to alternative energy, but since it would mean lower profits, they will always sandbag efforts to change our energy situation and the only way that could possibly ever change is if the government forced them (if indeed they were able to do so. The jury's still out on that one) to change.
There were thousands of battery operated automobiles sold during the nineties. Do you know of anyplace where you could get the battery charged to run one of them?
With people's energy needs, they can't just make stuff up. Not at the same time they need to get things done within a certain time frame to do anything else and go to work. It's almost impossible and very inefficient if indeed it is possible. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/23/2007 2:18:31 PM |
My point is that the fossil fuel energy companies and investment conglomerates who derive great profits from the sale of fossil fuels also own most of the patents and industrial infrastructure that could be used to change to alternative energy, but since it would mean lower profits, they will always sandbag efforts to change our energy situation and the only way that could possibly ever change is if the government forced them (if indeed they were able to do so. The jury's still out on that one) to change.
This one guy made a car that runs on water and by product is water. Do we need them to wipe our asses for us and go fetch water and put it in a bucket for us and sell us a pretty funnel and fill it up for us too? (this system reminds me of a little baby crib.)
The point is there are ways we can run cars on other things that we can cut out the oil/goverment agents. Lets just do it and shrug them off like a bad case of the fleas. This guy that made this water car should get 24 hrs around the clock security protection. (so the oil mafia dont rub him out.) Then he needs to open shop and start mass producing! I would even go to work for him tomorrow!!!!
As a side not think about it if this guy made a car run on 100 miles on a few ounces of water. Why do we still onlt get 10-30 miles to the gallon on gas???? Dont you think we are WAY behind on where we should be? | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/23/2007 6:19:08 PM |
This one guy made a car that runs on water and by product is water. Do we need them to wipe our asses for us and go fetch water and put it in a bucket for us and sell us a pretty funnel and fill it up for us too? (this system reminds me of a little baby crib.) A myth... more to the point, a scheme by someone looking for money. It violates the first law of thermodynamics.
The power companies would have switced to water as a fuel long ago. Save them trillions in fuel costs.
As a side not think about it if this guy made a car run on 100 miles on a few ounces of water. Why do we still onlt get 10-30 miles to the gallon on gas???? Dont you think we are WAY behind on where we should be? That depends on an if that, simply put, isn't true. I fear your gullability has been expoited and you've been suckered... or you are trying to sucker others. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/23/2007 6:40:00 PM | its is not a myth. watch my video link i gave you.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128967/water_as_fuel/
I dont think you understand the process we are talking about. It is not putting water in cars that we have now. They would have to be specially designed.
It work on a unique form of electrolysis that splits the water molecule causing the energy. It does take some other form of energy to make the electrolysis happen or get started. Perhaps can be combined with solar anyways look at the link and then make a comment. | |
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4peace
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Joined: 4/18/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/23/2007 8:51:41 PM | | I sure would give it up..if I had one. To all of you, pleeeease be courteous of your fellow drivers... We are all on the same highway to the same destitation (in a sence). BE CONSDERATE WHEN DRIVING! Use your signal when turning, waive a thank you when someone lets you in.. slow down... it's not how fast you go... It's if you get there in one peice! This will cause the cost of driving to go down as well. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 1:07:44 AM |
I dont think you understand the process we are talking about. It is not putting water in cars that we have now. They would have to be specially designed. I understand the assertions quite well. I also am familiar with how long this claim has been being made. I'm also familiar with the response from the scientific community at large and the complete unwillingness of the claimant to provide either a working model for testing, nor enough information to create one.
It work on a unique form of electrolysis that splits the water molecule causing the energy. No such thing. A water molecule has less potential energy than it's constituant parts. You cannot seperate the H and O and gain energy in the process any more than you can make a room hotter by leeching heat from it.
While you can gain energy by buring hydrogen in oxygen, at 100% effeciency, you would only get back what you spent... and there's essentially no such thing as 100% efficiency in mechanics.
Perhaps can be combined with solar anyways look at the link and then make a comment. If you did make enrgy, you could start the process with a battery.
But you don't. That's why his show-piece is a gas-hybrid (burning gasoline to power electralasis).
This is an old claim. It's been on the web for at least 7 years.
As I said, for this to function, a very basic tennant of long-standing physics (the first law of thermodynamics) must be entierly wrong. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 6:13:09 AM |
I dont think you understand the process we are talking about. It is not putting water in cars that we have now. They would have to be specially designed.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkay.... and that's where the difficulty I spoke of for the individual comes in. Do you have time to do that?
I certainly don't.
Do you have the capital to mass produce them for all of us and make it so the energy to run them is generally available?.... so we can get peanut oil or a battery charge to run it on when going across Utah or when motoring to work in Los Angeles or Chicago and we're low on fuel?
Enough to build a factory?
Cover startup costs?
Pay fixed costs?
Make it so I can pay a crummy little 16K like most people who buy cars and own one?
Please show me if you can do all this or let me know about someone who does...I'm very interested. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 7:49:22 AM | | Interesting tha GWB made a 'commitment' to reduce gasoline consumption by 20% in the next 10 years in last night SOTU address. He must be backed into one hell of a corner to give his Petro buddies that statement to chew on.... | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 9:28:57 AM | ^^^ There's a thread to GWB's "commitments".
They never happen in his term.
Even the commitments he was making early in his administration. He didn't commit to lowering consumption before his term ended, he committed to supporting "pie in the sky" concepts like fuel-cell cars that no one would expect progress on so that he didn't need to do anything.
Same with NASA. Didn't promise to fix the shuttle. Didn't promise to reapair the hubble. Didn't promise anything that had even a single bench-mark during his 8 years. Nope. He talked about Mars.
The logic seems to be "promise big and they'll see you as ambitious... plus you don't have to actually do anything". | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 12:05:20 PM |
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkay.... and that's where the difficulty I spoke of for the individual comes in. Do you have time to do that?
I certainly don't.
Do you have the capital to mass produce them for all of us and make it so the energy to run them is generally available?....
Far as biodiesel goes you CAN do it yourself cost anywhere from 500-1500 depending on which type of fuel you wish to run and how complex you want to make the system and if you want to start it on diesel or the veggie straight out. Google it and educate yourself. Me personally I am thinking about veggie because there are plenty of people in my area who sell it. Good thing about this form is you can still fill up with diesel. The thing is the veggie oil has to be heated up first. So either have to start the engine on diesel to heat it up or get a special heated tank and or lines depending on where the tank is put. Kits are sold on the Internet. If you live in Atlanta Georgia like I do there is a guy right up the street from (literally 4 doors down) that does the conversions and sells the oil. WE don't need government for damn near anything. In fact they are what holds us back. Of course you are too busy to do anything else. HOW PERFECT! Like I said take it to someone who is not. Biodiesel/veggie oil is ready to be used now and as I said can still fill up with diesel if you are in an area where you cannot get the oil OR you can just do what my friends do get a BIG plastic tank and fill it with veggie oil and fill up.
People who make 16 k can easily own one. like I said buy any diesel car and convert it. It is easy the directions are step by step a dumb ass can do it.
http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm
Here is just one random example I pulled off a Google search have fun.
http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 12:33:10 PM |
It is easy the directions are step by step a dumb ass can do it.
I'll take your word on that. Thanks.
Just afew more questions:
Where can consumers get the vegetable oil en bulk to use with this?
I don't see a vegetable oil pump at the union 76 station and I don't live very close to an army base or prison. That might create a problem...
Also, many people are mechanically declined to the point they wouldn't be able to convert this... Do you know any garages who'd put this in?
Thanks in advance. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 12:35:14 PM | I've downsized from a jeep to a subaru and am considering a hybrid or a biodiesel for my next vehicle...
That being said... I don't think this war is about oil as much as it is having an incompetent president and a niave population who foolishly went along with all of his lies and deception...
I would do the above to get our troops out of harms way and to save the envoronment.... Also to move us away from a dependency on foreign oil (or oil as a whole)
IMPEACH BUSH
DK | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 1:28:31 PM | Here is a short list of alternative fuel for transportation...
* Alcohols - ethanol and methanol.
* Compressed natural gas (CNG) - natural gas under high pressure.
* Electricity - stored in batteries.
* Hydrogen - a very special type of gas.
* Liquefied natural gas (LNG) - natural gas that is very, very cold.
* Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) (also called propane) - hydrocarbon gases under low pressure.
* Liquids made from coal - gasoline and diesel fuel that doesn't come from petroleum.
* Biodiesel - a lot like diesel fuel, but made from plant oil or animal fat.
* steam powered
All things considered, there's a lot here to be worked with.
I used to have a propane powered P/U that I drove for ten years with nary a complaint other than it not being available in enough places. The propane was available everywhere but not the means of connecting it to the filler. The gov't used to give a rebate for the conversion and the price at the pumps was more than competitive. Then, the twits dropped the rebate program and added taxes at the pumps, virtually wiping out any cost advantages of using it which made up for the drawbacks, few, but enough to disuade me from doing it again and I'm a convert!
It could all be done if there is the political will to do so.
Lots of simple things to be done. I am an owner-operator of a highway rig. Fuel is our biggest expense. It's got a battery powered, diesel fired engine heater and cab heater, so that it never needs to be idled. Keeps things toasty warm even in sub-zero weather and only uses a fraction of the fuel that a 12Litre engine on high idle does. There are also, just this past year or so, "night air" cooling units available so you don't need to run it for A/C. A highway rig burns about a gallon an hour of fuel at idle. The units I'm using, use only a few ounces per hour.
There's got to be close to a million big rigs in North America and, most of them never get turned off, anytime...the key is in your hand. If each driver were to just turn the thing off unless it truly needed to be running that would save how many gallons of fuel every day, not too mention the reduced emissions? A huge and immediate drop in consumption and demand!!!
Hydrogen fuel cells are in existence and in the testing stages. They are in use on the roads as we speak.
Each and every person can make a difference if they care enough to do so.
The technology is still new but, there's lots that can be done right now without it being it being too much trouble.
I'm not going to touch on the middle east aspect of this except to say that it's not impossible to get away from that imported oil....provided the political will exists to do so! That has to come from all of us! | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 1:33:07 PM | "steam powered" isn't an alternate fuel, it's an alternatie to internal combustion. You still need fuel to heat the water.
It's got a battery powered, diesel fired engine heater and cab heater, so that it never needs to be idled. Keeps things toasty warm even in sub-zero weather and only uses a fraction of the fuel that a 12Litre engine on high idle does. Yes. I've been arguing for some time that the sub-compact was not the obvious part to put hybrids. They are already very efficient. Take things that spend a lot of time using only a fraction of their engine (trucks and SUVs) and hybridize them. Seems to make more sense. | |
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Kalhan
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Joined: 12/3/2006
Msg: 48 | |
| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 5:15:39 PM | Hello back to topic...................I did.
I gave up driving 3 years ago. I have a bicycle and roller blades, I do walk alot.
R u serious?
Look at the world we live in. For how long have we had the technology to drive a car with corn oil?
HELLO????????????
Sorry I am a tree hugger and no one is hugging anything. Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the gulf war? Hmmmmmmm we have oil in other places in the world besides the gulf and where people would be happy just to get a job. They have deposits that they are sitting on yes doing nothing with them. The gulf war is well it is isn't it. Hmmmmmmmm.
Where is the world police? Do this really have to do with oil? Like I said they have more just not doing anything with it? Why is that? War is good for the economy.
Watch the Movie "Canadian Bacon". Makes me giggle now. It's an old movie. The gulf war you may think has to do with your vehicle but does it really? | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 5:17:06 PM |
Where can consumers get the vegetable oil en bulk to use with this?
I don't see a vegetable oil pump at the union 76 station and I don't live very close to an army base or prison. That might create a problem...
OK I know we have been programed to think we have to get things given/sold to us in the most convenient way but, there are plenty of people who go to kitchens who use "food grease" (veggie oil that is not too hydrogenated) that pay some company to remove this "waste product" and offer to take it for less money or even for free and pump that "grease" into a tank and filter this waste product and turn it into fuel and resell it to people for 50 cents a gallon. Have to search around where you live. If there is no one doing this in your area GREAT!!!! You just found a way to make a bunch of loot. Be enterprising and think outside the freakin box people! This is the problem with our country too many sheep. Not enough creative thinkers. We didnt used to be this way, we need to ask ourselves what happened? We used to be VERY innovative. Now we are told the best thing to do is go work for a corporation and or a government by our parents. SHEEEESH! Luckily I have a guy right up the street from me that does this and even converts the cars. If you are not mechanically inclined, even though I still think you can follow the step by step directions on how to convert these things. (It really is not that hard.) You could always take the directions to your local mechanic and he/she can do it for you.
Why is it that when I go to third world countries they are SOOOOOO much more creative and innovative than people in the US? people in the US break down on the side of the road where their cell phone dont work and start crying "the world has come to an end." I have been in the middle of no-where in the third world where this has happened and they will whip out some MacGyver shit and fix it with a flip flop and someones belt. Come on people lets get it together and work together to make a way to run our cars that has NOTHING to do with the government or the big companies make our own movement and we are free of their filth.
There are so many options out there hit the net and research them. If they sound suspect or like a hoax find someone to test it and prove them wrong.
For the guy who thinks the water car is a crock, there are several scientists who claim both directions. Guess we will not know, I know for sure that the welder exists and if you can make a welder like that bet you can make a car run on it. Many say they think it its just "browns gas", but those who know about it claim it is different. Far as you saying they dont have a number or anyway to contact them think again I did 5 minutes of research came up with a number and a web site.this came from a welding show where welders were shown a demostration and got to examine the machine. The number no longer works but, the website is still there.
I am not claiming that this might not be a hoax but, if it is there are alot of people involved in it including the government, several universities, and people in several countries. here is some more information i dug up in a longer search for more information.
It IS NOT extraction of Hydrogen. It is the restructuring of Hydrogen and oxygen valence bonding to create an entirely new form of water, which happens to be combustible. The electrolysis process to create HHO uses a fraction of the energy required to separate hydrogen from water
Water vibrates, e- vibrates. Put e- at the right Hz and the two will oppose. The water will shift to vibrate at a higher frequency aka higher power. This is not done by amperage, but by hz and high voltage with very low amperage. = 100%+ 'efficient' process.....
.....It works fine with 10KHz or something else if you preferred.
Use 50% duty cycle. BUT! the frequency will be doubled in the
step up circuit and that's the frequency the Water-Cell will work
with. The components must resist at least 2000V.
The Water-Cell is very simple. Take a lot of stainless steel tubes
with the inner diameter of the bigger tube 3mm bigger than the outer
diameter of the inner tube. From now you must look at this
Water-Cell as a capacitor with water as dilectricum.
The Water-Cell and the INDUCTOR will resonate at a specific
frequency. It's a normal RC-circuit.
Now the most important: The Water-Cell/Inductor frequency and
the doubled frequency from the generator must be exactly the
same. A special condition exists in a L/C Circuit, when it is
energized at a frequency at which the inductive reactance is equal
to the capacitive reactance, XL = XC.
Adjust the voltage peak level to reach a maximum hydrogen/oxygen
producing with a minimum of current using. If you earlier make
hydrogen with the electrolysis method with a lot of current,
this experiment will really surprise you.
For even less current you can make some experiment with a
centertapped puls-transformer.
Have a nice trip to Ohio!
The system is an alternative energy concept with applications that include hydrogen-powered automobiles, thermal spraying, and welding, heating and cutting of exotic and specialty materials in both open atmospheres and under water. With the rising cost of carbon and fossil fuels and their continued impact on our environment, I think the welding industry must work harder to implement pollution-free systems. As these systems become more versatile, dependable and cost effective, industrial implementation becomes harder to resist. Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc., Clearwater, Fla.; (727) 449-2243; www.hytechapps.com.
http://hytechapps.com/video/hta05.mov
http://hytechapps.com/aquygen/hhos_test_20030519.pdf
This law was also brought up in a discussion about this I must admitt I do not quite understand this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan-Boltzmann_law
There is also other people who have done the same or simular things. in Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia, new Zealand, and England.
Here is a link for a group that did it in taiwan.
http://spluch.blogspot.com/2007/01/car-that-runs-on-water.html
There was also a guy who made a car that ran on compressed air. Never heard much about it since, bet your ass the oil company covering that up too. | |
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| Would you give up your gas guzzler to end the Gulf war
Posted: 1/24/2007 6:32:30 PM |
OK I know we have been programed to think we have to get things given/sold to us in the most convenient way but, there are plenty of people who go to kitchens who use "food grease" (veggie oil that is not too hydrogenated) that pay some company to remove this "waste product" That's going o be pretty contaminant filled. I'm not sure what the desil equivelant to a catalitic converter is but I suspect you'll blow it.
For the guy who thinks the water car is a crock, there are several scientists who claim both directions. So you say. It's still a crock.
Guess we will not know, I know for sure that the welder exists and if you can make a welder like that bet you can make a car run on it. Does the welder provide it's own electricty for electralasis? No? There's the problem.
Far as you saying they dont have a number or anyway to contact them think again I did 5 minutes of research came up with a number and a web site.this came from a welding show where welders were shown a demostration and got to examine the machine. The number no longer works but, the website is still there. The only problem there is that I didn't say that. I said that they didn't have an examinable prototype nor sufficient information to reproduce it.
I am not claiming that this might not be a hoax but, if it is there are alot of people involved in it including the government, several universities, and people in several countries. here is some more information i dug up in a longer search for more information. That's what they were saying a decade ago. Which millitary units are currently fielding water-powered HumVees? None.
Should I by the water-powered torch on HSC or eBay? Neither has them.
This law was also brought up in a discussion about this I must admitt I do not quite understand this. The concept is pretty simply, but has nothing to do with a wate-engine.
Stefan-Boltzmann law describes the relationship between the temperature of a given body and the rate at which it radiates energy.. For an ideal "black box"
radiation = unit(joules for example) times time, times square area (of the surface) times absolute temperature raised to the fourth power.
http://spluch.blogspot.com/2007/01/car-that-runs-on-water.html No. This is a fuel cell. It's a different critter in that electralasis has already been done eby an external power source. This is a hydrogen car, not a "water car"
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog/archives/2007_01_01_hydrogencarsnow.com_archive.html
"The MHV4 runs off a 5 kw fuel cell battery-operated engine" | |
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