| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/12/2008 9:11:39 PM |
Some of the tactics expressed pander to those easily victimized or abused. Just so happens women are easily victimized and abused compared to men in the society we live in...
I guess I assumed it from the quote above. If you don't want people to think the victimization you're talking about is due to the tactics of sexual seduction I suggest that in the future you don't put them in the same paragraph... or the same thread. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/12/2008 9:18:33 PM | I'm just wondering who told you this thread was about "sexual seduction" when the original topic was regarding "success with women".
You want to be sexually seductive, that is a completely different matter than having success with women on the level THEY interpret success. Sexual seduction may be some men's goal when they consider "success" but its not everyone's goal.....just the dude who wants to get laid. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/26/2008 6:45:34 AM | Its interesting reading..I'm not really sold on alot of his recommendations though.I
have a difficult time ignoring someone I am attracted to.Many of the ideas go against
my natural instincts .I also wonder if a woman is able to tell if a man is trying such a
"system" on her and if it makes any difference to her..Is it lying by trying these methods??
I used to know a girl who went crazy when I ignored her...a bit of an impossible situation
I thought | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/26/2008 11:05:54 AM | DeAngelo's stuff is what it is... a way to get you laid. It doesn't tell you how to have successful relationships. I don't even think he makes that claim.
He uses tricks and gimmicks that tap into the old, animal part of the brain and it works on woman that are simple, needy, desparate, vulnerable, etc, etc. A relationship it doesn't make as this is just smoke and mirrors and once the hormones drain from the brain, they'll look at each other and go wtf?? | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/26/2008 12:18:12 PM |
He uses tricks and gimmicks that tap into the old, animal part of the brain and it works on woman that are simple, needy, desparate, vulnerable, etc, etc. ...
But if this system works for guys that have little or no luck with women are they not better off using it rather than not meeting women? At least they are meeting women and have an opportunity to learn something from the experience, even if they are just superficial relationships they are better than none.
Besides the fact that a lot of this stuff works, it is the ladies man and players that leave at the end of a night with a woman, not the self-professed "nice guy" even if he is really a nice guy.
I don't think it matters what kind of relationship a person says they are looking for at the end of the evening if you haven't impressed the other person with some of these "tricks and gimmicks" , your going home alone and without a phone number. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/26/2008 8:04:18 PM | | I don't think you need this garbage to impress women. I've talked to women and I think about 99.9 percent wouldn't fall for this crap. Also, guys that resort to using these predatory tactics because they can't meet anyone by being who they really are would have to be pathetic, not to mention the ultimate sleazes. This type of behavior is dangerously close to that of a rapist or sexual predator in my opinion. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/27/2008 7:36:39 AM |
But if this system works for guys that have little or no luck with women are they not better off using it rather than not meeting women?
As long as they are straight with their intentions or lack of them then I don't care. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 2/27/2008 7:46:49 AM |
This type of behavior is dangerously close to that of a rapist or sexual predator in my opinion.
Wow, those are pretty strong words, I haven't read a lot of what DeAngelo has to say but from what little I have read I haven't seen any thing suggesting that men force women into a situation they don't want to be in, rather his tactics suggest ways of attracting women to you willingly.
Being of the ripe old age of 50, and having spent more than my fare share of time in bars, the statements I made above were based on my observations, not on anything DeAngelo says. Guys that are talkers, ladies men and players have much more luck with women than the usually quieter more polite gentleman, it is only natural and it isn't limit to luck with women, you can observe this in business, look at the film industry, it even works in reverse, I've often heard beautiful but shy women say thing like, "I don't date because no one every asks me" and yet other just as attractive women turn men away in droves. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/4/2008 6:15:27 PM |
Guys that are talkers, ladies men and players have much more luck with women than the usually quieter more polite gentleman....
So the conclusion -- men who are jerks attract more women?? Any man can be a loudmouth, braggart, or barefaced dirty liar. Those of us who choose not to be like that are considered less attractive to women. DeAngelo is a fraud and a hustler. That women would agree with any of what he has to say really does not bode well for a society that needs people of ethic and strong conviction -- not less.
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be hateful. But when it is men who condemn this guy and women who support him -- well what does that say?
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/4/2008 7:23:23 PM | | fluffy: I would have used stronger words but none really exist for how I feel about this guy's tactics. DeAngelo is brainwashing and "grooming" the minds of the men who fall for his filth in such a way that they are taught to go from thinking of women as people who should be respected and admired to sexual targets that are to be fooled and landed like some sort of sexual conquest. This is the mindset of a sexual predator. He is essentially coaxing nice normal thinking men into men who are trying to trick women into sex. This could lead to very scary scenarios and even date rape. Of course, he doesn't care about the results of his actions as long as he is making money. This also makes him a sociopath. I seriously think someone like him can be very dangerous and he should be charged and locked up for encouraging people to get themselves into potentially illegal situations. It will only take one news story of a man doing something illegal and stupid by following DeAngelo's ideas to make people see what he really is and unfortunately I'm sure it is bound to happen sooner or later. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/4/2008 10:32:21 PM | | cw might be speaking in an extreme but I don't see he's too far off. Many of the tactics are meant to demean women who are vunerable to abuse. If you had a bf treating you this way and went to see a psychologist, they'd probably tell you to break it off because it was an unhealthy relationship. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/5/2008 4:26:25 AM | | Since I noticed this topic,Ive been reading alot of DD's stuff.It seems like old news to me.Play hard to get and the women go crazy for you.Its hardly a breakthrough in the area of dating.I think everyone has their own"system" that they use when dating..maybe just being yourself or paying attention to small details..whatever.We all want to show our best side to a potential partner..is that lying though?I think we are all vulnerable in many different ways when trying to fine a mate..how can you not be when you are trying to get to know someone well?I do pity the fool who would attempt DD's system on some of the ladies in this forum.lol | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/5/2008 8:28:41 AM | Haven't read any of the material - only what is presented here.
Can you imagine the extreme - the meek, shy, quiet, unsuccessful with the ladies guy reads DeAngelo stuff and turns his whole world around. Not quite. Movie material.
With any book, idea, theory, you have to sift through all information as presented and make a rational, mature decision.
Haven't met the guy (DeAngelo) , don't plan on reading his material. (but I might).
If I just read this thread and didn't have an analytical mind, I would be at the mercy of the strong suggestions, beliefs and possibly misused words to describe this book here. Then I could go and tell others exactly what I though of the book. (educated at POF forums).
From daniel a's last comment, sounds like it's generally about dating, how to put yourself in a position to have a possible 2nd, 3rd etc. date instead of constantly being overlooked. Not trying to oversimplify for those of you who are presently forming an opinion.
Someone here talked about being yourself - what a great idea! I think we all have to be open to some possible criticism which we can use to improve how we interact with people.
When we're ready to trust others and ourselves, then you can expect some wonderful experiences with friends (new and old).
Have you ever been in a social situation and you are feeling a strong emotion such as hurt or anger? You may not even recognize it at all. You might even have to think about it for a long time to recognize when it was happening. When you think of an example, try to remember what the other people there were doing. Were their subtle signs (quick looks at each other), distinct change of subject, or more apparent (maybe eye rolling).
Consider reading the signs that other people are giving you. You are not necessarily the expert on yourself. Reading others reactions will give you more insight into yourself and it might not help you relax but at least you will understand the effect that certain behaviours have on those around you.
Humility is a nice trait to some and we all need to learn (over and over) that we're not always right (or correct) and what if we were - why do we try so hard to prove to others how stubborn we can be. 
If I could study this site in some way, my statement to prove or disprove would be:
Individuals who have emotional reactions to forums topics - respond immediately without much thought process. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/7/2008 12:46:41 PM |
So the conclusion -- men who are jerks attract more women?? Any man can be a loudmouth, braggart, or barefaced dirty liar. Those of us who choose not to be like that are considered less attractive to women.
For one thing not all ladies men or talkers or even players are loudmouth etc, there are those that are nice people and no those who choose not to be like that are not less attractive, they attract less women because they don't get noticed...
...DeAngelo is brainwashing and "grooming"...
DeAngelo is publishing material for people to read, if they choose to follow his "teachings" it is a choice, they aren't being brainwashed...
Reading material is published every day with controversial points of view on many different subjects, the people who read it make their own choice as to whether or not they agree, disagree or incorporate it into their lives. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with DeAngelo's ideas, I haven't read enough of it but I do think he has the right to publish it. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:03:14 PM | | fluffy: You can use the same arguement for hate literature as well but it's illegal. He IS brainwashing and taking advantage of a lot of vulnerable guys who are willing to do anything to find someone. His articles are all over the place luring people into buying his books to find out his so-called secrets. What do you think cults do? They give out literature and lecture vulnerable people. He does the exact same thing. Everyone CHOOSES to listen but that doesn't mean they aren't being brainwashed. That's the very way that you DO get brainwashed. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:19:24 PM | How is what he is doing any different then the Shopping Channel??
It's just marketing a product some people will buy and others won't!
Some people like to put an Evil twist into it!!! | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/7/2008 9:27:24 PM | | Funny, but I actually think teaching men to treat women as pieces of meat to be lied to and tricked into bed IS evil. Training men to be callous predators is also evil. There's no "twist" to it. It just is. Nobody ever felt physically violated or used buying something off of the shopping channel. There is no comparison. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/8/2008 10:48:22 AM | DeAngelo is publishing material for people to read, if they choose to follow his "teachings" it is a choice, they aren't being brainwashed...
The flaw in your logic is that most people who are brainwashed think that they chose that course of action. That is just part of how the snake oil salesmen works his pitch. People buy the product because they think they need it.
He may have a right to publish, but people should also be free to speak up and point out that his book is the piece of crap that it is. I have read through his book and seen him in a couple of on TV interviews, and it is pretty clear as to his mindset. He is playing on the minds of men that have become mixed up over the current mess that is our dating world. Probably geared toward the same kind of men who think MAXIM is a quality magazine cause of the occasional good fluff article in there (when it fact the magazine is about T&A and nothing else).
A lot of men feel desparate and alone, and unable to figure out why they cannot attract a female for a long-term relationship. DeAngelo is using typical false bravado and locker room rational to sell his stupid philosophy and play on that confusion that men have. Giving women what they want, when what they want is wrong, is no solution either. Either way his philosophy of dating is just snake oil.
I see no controversy. DeAngelo is a slimy jerk -- plain and simple.
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/8/2008 12:44:34 PM | Yes DeAngelo is slime but I think people are giving that slime too much credit as far as being significantly influential. He is going to have his 15 minutes of fame and then will disappear.
For the men that struggle with dating that are inherently good, they are not going to take anything out of his book that will change their character to any great degree especially once they find out that the tactics they are using are not getting them the kind of women they want.
As far as the men that are as slimy as DeAngelo well... they are just going to get what they are anyway. *shrugs* | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/13/2008 8:53:15 PM | First of all, I have had a vast experience in DD's programs. I read thru his Inner Game, Advanced, and Mastery programs. While, I do not have a vast amount of in the field experience with them. I will tell you that he does use REAL science in his programs. He uses science from psychologists, sociologists, comedians, and a host of experts. He just does not get up on stage in one of his seminars and just starts to spout off unproven evidence. Everything he teaches has been tested, experimented with, and refined through years of trial and error. Time and time again I have tried to go AGAINST his teachings and programs and you what? DD is right every single time!!!!! I can not tell you how many times I have said to myself, "Dang DD is right yet again!"
You have read through and watch his DVD programs to fully understand what he is really trying to teach men who are not naturally good at attracting women. In my opinion, he is by no means trying to teach men how to trick women or to use women as sex toys. In fact, he tells men that they are to respect women and treat them with the highest regard.
Yes DD is making tons of money from his programs. He is a business like any self help guru is. All of that aside do you blame the guy? He is helping out thousands of men who have struggled to even get dates. Several of these men are not your typical "nerds" either or ugly guys. Some of them are decent or good looking guys who were never taught how to attract women TO NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
DD is teaching men the science of attraction. DD is teaching men how to first and foremost become real men. By building their self-esteem, self-confidence, social skills, and everything else that makes a man a man. He is teaching men how create attraction with women. How many times have you heard women say after a date, "I just did not FEEL anything" or "The guy was nice but boring" or "There was NO attraction or CHEMISTRY" DD is teaching men how to build attraction/chemistry with women, so women will not be so disappointed. To enable men more success in getting repeat dates. It is not about sex it is enabling men to be more successful not only with women, but in life in general.
If a man does not know how to create attraction you are dead in the water. I can not tell you how many times I have gone on dates in the past nine years and I failed horribly at getting repeat dates. Am I ugly? NO. Am I computer geek who has never done anything physical before? NO. Quite the contrary I was in the Marine Corps for six years, ran a marathon when I was 17, played football, climbed Mt. Fuji in Japan, competed in bicycle races, and several other sports. It could be argued that I am or was once tougher than many of the bad boys who are good with women.
SO what was (maybe still is) my problem? I didn't know how attraction works between women, I had low confidence, and I had little field experience with women. How does this happen? Modern society has something to do with it. Throughout ancient times tribes would take a teenage boy through a ritual process of entering into manhood. The boy would be taken away from his mother and undergo some physical/mental tasks that developed him into a man. In modern times, for the most part this process does not exist. What you have is a lot of nice guys who are essentially like their mothers. Are they mommy boys? Maybe maybe not..... The key is to know that they CAN'T help it being that way. They are the guys who are always just the friend and who basically suck at getting dates. When they do get a date they are so nervous or boring that they fail horribly. Is this true in all cases? No of course not......it is in general.
As a man you have to KNOW how to create attraction with women and once you initially get them attracted to you the work is not over. You MUST keep the attraction going by being your new confident masculine self.
DD is helping women with his programs. He is developing boys into men so they will know how to create chemistry with women. Most importantly, he is helping men who are truly great great guys learn how to become better men. Women gain from this because truly nice guys (not stalker dummies who claim to be nice or control freaks) are able to create chemistry with them and instead of women getting with some abusive jerk or a player who uses them they find their prince.
I really do not mean to be such a DD fanboy, but like I said time and time again he has proven true. Do I wish his teachings were not true or correct? YES I do wish they were not correct. IN a fairy tale world, nice guys would already know how to attract women and keep their attraction and all the slime balls would not. But that is not how it is so we must adjust.
Are some guys using his****/Funny program and his other technique programs just to get laid? YES that is one of the unfortunate aspects of leaving in today's society. There will always be men who use tools the way they are not meant to be used. DD states in all his programs that we (men/boys) are to use his programs in a certain progression to build our confidence, self-esteem, sexuality, masculine qualities, and much more. He says to only use his technique programs if you need to or if you still not being as successful as you want with women.
Why are a lot of women defensive when it comes to DD? Very simply many may feel that their power is threatened. This is proven online. Look how many women get bombarded with tons of e-mails from tons of different guys daily on here in comparison to men. YES there are some men who get tons of e-mails from women and some women who do not. ON a whole men always get less. I have known women who when they want to date they go date. For nice guys this usually is NOT a choice for them. I have known several women who if they want to they can date a different guy every week.
DD is teaching men how to have more power in the dating game. While at first, it may appear that it does not benefit women. IN reality it really does, because as more nice guys learn to become real men (while still being respectful to women) women will be happier and more in love. As will more men!
His programs are so popular because they work. They have been tested in the field extensively as stated earlier thru trial and error. Sure there will always be some guy out there who will say, "Well I read his book or went through his programs and they did not work for me" That happens with any self-help programs and usually is the fault of the overly negative mindset that the person has when first beginning a program.
Is DD a saint or nut job? Probably neither! He was just a regular nice guy who was unsuccessful with dating and relationships who tried to figure out why men who are naturally good with women so good!
Is is just men who date use his programs? No married men and men in relationships use his programs to help them keep their women ATTRACTED to them so their relationship will not fall part by having the girl say out of the blue, "You know I just do not feel anything any more."
In closing, you have to really study his programs with an open mind. You cannot be defensive and negative. If you were you will automatically discredit or discount his ideas. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/19/2008 7:38:10 PM | | Where do I start to respond to that De-scam-gelo ad you just wrote. He must be paying you. You said a few things I find very disturbing. If you have to fight to create attraction or put on a front then you shouldn't be bothering with that woman. Doing that actually makes you more pathetic than never getting a date at all because you're sacrificing the real you, not to mention your dignity. Attraction will be natural when you find someone that you click with. Also, if a married man is married to a woman who is so fickle, immature and flighty that he has to learn these tricks so she won't run off on him then one of two things has happened. He must have married a teenage girl or the woman he is with must be an idiot with no depth and he should get as far away as possible. Who wants to be with someone who isn't willing to see things through the dull moments as well as the exciting ones? I seriously think that society has to retrain itself as to what a true relationship with real respect is because if we need the idiotic advice this guy is spewing, our futures look bleak. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/22/2008 2:49:17 PM | First of all, your comment that I was running a David Deangelo ad is just plain foolish and that he paid me to write that is foolish as well. Now with that being said as a Christian I forgive you and wish you all the best in life. I wrote what I wrote because I KNOW what DD teaches is factual and is great material for nice guys (who are truly great and wonderful men) who have struggled with women for several years. DD's material not only helps men and it helps women as well. Because nice guys are finally starting to learn how to attract women they will not end up with dangerous men who are abusive, sociopaths, cheaters, and men who generally treat women horribly. His material should probably be taught in colleges to help nice men improve themselves. Maybe at some college it will be ten years from now.
CW I see where your coming from I really do. I probably use to think like you did in regards to the dating game. Your right in the sense that men should not have to put up a front or anything such as that. DD is not teaching men to put up fronts! In fact, he discourages against men putting up fronts. The WHOLE basis of his programs is to IMPROVE MEN. Have you ever read the book "Unlimited Power" by Anthony Robbins or from any other self help guru? If you have you would understand that while yes this men are making money. They truly are trying to help people improve their lives. You are basing your argument entirely on his technique programs. You have to take a good hard look at what he is really trying to do. First, by starting with the base programs such as Inner Game.
I do not even know you but I would suspect that your so close minded towards DD concepts because deep down you know they are true. Being resistant to change is a natural defensive mechanism that we all use. Once you learn that is ok to change your life will improve by leaps in bounds. No matter how good you think your life is now you can improve it even more if you learn to accept change. I understand accepting change is a hard thing to do.
Yes I realize it sucks that being just a nice guy does not work long term with women. The simple facts are that it does not. In a perfect fairy tale 1950's world all the nice guys in the world would be able to attract women just because they are "nice" That is not reality in this day and age. You have to be confident, fun, have high self esteem, have a life outside of women, be challenging, and be masculine. Do not be afraid to learn new ideas, concepts, and theories. Who knows you might just improve your life and your self and thank the gurus later for it. | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/22/2008 5:15:27 PM |
Yes I realize it sucks that being just a nice guy does not work long term with women. The simple facts are that it does not. In a perfect fairy tale 1950's world all the nice guys in the world would be able to attract women just because they are "nice" That is not reality in this day and age. You have to be confident, fun, have high self esteem, have a life outside of women, be challenging, and be masculine. Do not be afraid to learn new ideas, concepts, and theories. Who knows you might just improve your life and your self and thank the gurus later for it.
Oh good god man get down off that cross -- we need the wood.
DD's basic message is treat women like crap and you get what you want. Anyone can be a jerk and make that work for them. But having an ethical problem with DeAngelos practices does not make us resistance to change. It means we have a backbone and are willing to stand up and be self-defined men. If a woman, an American, or some scumbag disciple of an even larger scumbag has an issue with that -- then they should go look in the mirror and carefully examine there own lack of scruples. Its easy to get what you want if you just go and take it and the hell with what anyone else feels or things. But then again I guess that is how modern American culture defines itself.
PS: You really do sound like a shill for DeAngelo.
Guru Bubba | |
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| David DeAngelo - What's his angle?
Posted: 3/23/2008 7:09:39 AM | ligon: If you think that I said anything that would require "forgiveness" then you're being too sensitive. Saying you're a christian also doesn't make you a more forgiving or better person either, and it sounds pompous to see someone proclaim this but it explains why you're so willing to be a follower when somebody tries to fool you into buying what they're selling since you're part of the biggest scam in human existence (I used to be part of it as well until I saw the light) but that's off topic. You should stand back and think outside the box a bit. Just because someone talks slick and the majority may think one way does not mean they're right.
I also have some shocking news for you. I'm actually pretty open minded and being a nice guy has ALWAYS worked for me. I find women run at the first sign of arrogance or bravado so DD is not only way off base, he's training men to be phony. Have you ever thought that DD can't get women by being a nice person because he ISN'T one?
I'm willing to bet that he was such a jerk in his dating life that when he tried to actually be a good person to women so he could pick them up, it came off as so insincere that women could tell and ran in the opposite direction. After this he probably had such a chip on his shoulder that he decided to take it upon himself to train people to approach women his way because he couldn't truthfully be a nice person to women. Just my theory but it makes sense to me. If I thought DD had a system that worked and wasn't so creepy, trust me I would try it not reject it so I don't quite understand that part of your statement. | |
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