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 Realist59
Joined: 8/24/2006
Msg: 26
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Dating a man with an adult daughterPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
aurora1 - is there anything else about their relationship that struck you as "not quite right"? Him living with her and putting her needs before his own certainly doesn't strike me as healthy. I'm sensing that there's more to it than him want to look after his daughter only, and leave you out of being looked after. Are you asking this because your confidence has been shaken in your ability to read people? Maybe some reading on the princess / daddy's girl relationship would help.

On the question of leaving money to either a new spouse or children of a former marriage - not sure why a person couldn't do both, and the situation both are in being considered. Let's face it though, some people have pretty strong opinions about the money and possessions that are wrapped up with their death, and instead of thinking through the situation that their families are in, let emotion cloud their thinking. When a will leaves a family in conflict, then maybe the decisions by the deceased weren't so great, and the lack of communication an unwise choice.
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/28/2007 10:59:04 PM
Not sure why the man would provide for his daughter, but not for any other adult children.
There might be cause for concern.

I have only one child, and my will states that everything goes to her and to her children. Even if I were to marry again (very unlikely, but not impossible) I wouldn't change my will. There won't be much left in any case, so it's no big deal. I suppose people with a lot of financial assets have more to contend with.

But, my point is, at my age, I do expect the man in my life to be able to provide for himself, just as I am able to provide for myself.

It's much different if one has young children. And, I recommend term insurance in that case. It's far cheaper than whole life.
 Sistermary
Joined: 3/11/2006
Msg: 28
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 12:46:47 AM
I'm finding this quite amusing, given all the protestations in other threads about caring and sharing. I've also read ranting (in other threads, from men and women alike) about having to take a back seat to the first spouse, the adult kids, the job, the friends, the relatives, on and on and on. So, lo and behold, what do we have here???? As for trust - if one can't start a relationship with a clean slate, maybe those who can't are just not ready to cast aside the baggage. Some of the posters here have said in other threads "money's not everything". After reading this thread, ya coulda fooled me.

When it comes to a partner, I'm not taking a back seat to anyone - and neither will he. I have a question to ask those posters who are so adamant about leaving everything to their kids and leaving the new partner out in the cold. Are your children leaving their assets to YOU in their wills and leaving their partners out in the cold? After all, you're "family", right?

It's a pretty hard smack in the face to spend years with someone and not be even considered family.
 canyunflyer
Joined: 2/6/2006
Msg: 29
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 1:50:59 AM
Well. sista mary gets my vote here. ha. But...to the OP...don't base very relationship you might have in the future on this one guy, or goodness sake! I doubt you will even find many men living with their 25 yr adult daughters in that capacity...even if you wne t looking anyhway! relax.
 aNgeLiCbLoNdiE
Joined: 9/7/2006
Msg: 30
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 2:42:24 AM
hmmm...I dated one of those---if he is sooo attached to "baby girl", why is/was he dating/sleeping w/ you? This excessively attached behavior to an adult offspring is very unhealthy AND as at least once person already mentioned...a pension/ social security benefit is meant for & only allowed to go to a surviving spouse, underage children or DISABLED adult children. An insurance policy or 401K can go to who ever is the beneficiary, so....

PLUS- a daughter who is "baby girl" -what will she be in her adult life? A self-centered, OBNOXIOUS brat who expects the world to spin on it's heel everytime she breathes???

This man has an emotional relationship w/ his daughter that is what he should be having w his lover. It is SICK. Emotional incest, if not physical incest. Run like hell
 Sistermary
Joined: 3/11/2006
Msg: 31
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 7:40:44 AM
And the "baby girl" or "baby boy" grows up to be a grasping, selfish individual who is continually looking for someone to bail her/him out, can't solve problems and runs home every time the going gets rough. My last LTR had 8 adult kids like that. Every time he turned around one of them was there looking for a handout or looking for help to be bailed out of something (they were all over 35 yrs old and had been spoiled rotten by their mother). He was man enough not to fall for their machinations and efforts to keep bleeding him dry, both emotionally and financially. What he said to them was "When your mother was alive she was first in my life. Now Marg is. I want to enjoy whatever years I have left. If you don't like that - there's the door. End of story."
 markusmarkus
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 32
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 11:19:47 AM
Sorry, I don't see where "double standard" comes into this. You go on to describe a situation where your child was/is an infant. The OP was discussing a 25 year old child. At 25 years old I would consider this child to be an adult and would expect her to be independent of her father's support. Somewhere along the line the apron strings really do have to be cut. ------------------------------------------------------how many people place an age barrier on their children---my son is 24 years old now and I have been invited to Thunderbay to live with an really pretty woman and I said my son needs me here in Toronto right now and she said bring him with you and I said he has established everything here and he love's his job. What kind of parent bails out on their child at any age for their own personal pleasure or gain.-------"I chose not to have children" are you sure it was your choice or something far greater placed the thought because of the way you think.
 shyblondee
Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 33
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 11:26:24 AM
I personally feel that the children and *and* new spouse should be provided for in case of death. It shouldn't have to be either/or.

I have a life insurance policy that would pay money to my ex-husband in case of my death. He would have custody of my children, and he would use the money to raise them, pay for their college education, etc. He also has one that would pay me if he died.

I am not remarried, but if I did remarry I would have an additional life insurance policy, and make sure that my new spouse could remain in our home and still be able to maintain a decent standard of living. I think I have a responsibility to both my children and a potential new spouse. I wouldn't marry a man who didn't feel the same way.
 prolibertate
Joined: 9/11/2005
Msg: 34
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 12:17:14 PM
OP, nope it's not that strange as I almost married a guy who wanted me to sign a prenup - after telling me he didn't want me to work so I could travel with him for his job and also take care of his 14-year-old daughter...I had no problem with the prenup (though I wasn't so keen about not working and making my own money), what I had a problem with is that he was also asking me to give up my spousal rights under NY state law which meant things wouldn't be divided by 1/3 as the law states they should be. My lawyer said not to sign it. Not to mention that considering the salary I was making at that time, what he offered in the prenup for me to give up my NY spousal rights was ridiculous...I'd much rather work and support myself...As for leaving things for one's kids, I really think that's so stupid...people should enjoy what they earned and leave personal things to one's family...money doesn't mean a thing when one has lost someone they loved.
 five-marie
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 35
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 2:08:37 PM
I think money does mean something. My mother raised 5 children alone, money was very tight. Not her fault, she worked everyday. She was forced to sell furniture to pay the rent sometimes. When her mother died, she left everything, house, money, to the youngest daughter who had helped care for her. This daughter had a husband and a good life. While my mom, who was thousands of miles away understood why everything had been left to one child I couldn't believe knowing my mothers situation nothing had been left to her. This is why I held onto my house, for my children. To help make their lives easier than mine was. While I would probably stipulate that my husband could live in the house until his death, I would still insist it be left to my children. I find it kind of disturbing that because this man put his daughter first in his life some are thinking that maybe it was an unhealthy relationship. Most parents I know put their children first and always will. I don't plan on supporting my children forever but I do want my hard work and sacrifices to benefit them.
 ya472
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 36
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 3:37:46 PM
^^^

While my mom, who was thousands of miles away understood why everything had been left to one child I couldn't believe knowing my mothers situation nothing had been left to her.



Likely there was manipulation by the youngest daughter.

I have seen it numerous times, where inheritances are left to the 'caregivers'. For equity sake, the caregiver could be paid for their time and costs (actually likely were paid monthly from pension cheques and received other benefits while mom lived in their home), and then the balance of the estate distributed equally.


BUT, life isn't fair. Popular people are usually rewarded sooner than unpopular people, no matter how much of a leech or user they might be. It is a skill that is honed throughout their lives.

 Bowled Over
Joined: 7/7/2006
Msg: 37
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 3:40:23 PM

What has the sloppy second wife brought into the picture? She has probably brought her liabilities and her feeling of abandonment from her 1st, 2nd and likely third relationship, before she GOT TO ME ! She likely has NO investment or interest in caring for my children.


Yikes! Are you dating anyone? I will tell you if I read this before or shortly after I met you, I sure would be awful worried!
 tinkerbellcgy
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 38
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 4:12:25 PM

I chose not to have children" are you sure it was your choice or something far greater placed the thought because of the way you think.

Of course I alone made the choice not to have children. I'm not sure what you are trying to imply by your statement but I am considered to be intelligent and capable of making decisions on my own. I've been making my own decisions since I struck out on my own at 17 years old. I don't need to have anyone else make decisions for me.



Sorry, I don't see where "double standard" comes into this. You go on to describe a situation where your child was/is an infant. The OP was discussing a 25 year old child. At 25 years old I would consider this child to be an adult and would expect her to be independent of her father's support. Somewhere along the line the apron strings really do have to be cut.


how many people place an age barrier on their children---my son is 24 years old now and I have been invited to Thunderbay to live with an really pretty woman and I said my son needs me here in Toronto right now and she said bring him with you and I said he has established everything here and he love's his job. What kind of parent bails out on their child at any age for their own personal pleasure or gain.-------"

Once again, I would ask where "double standard" comes into this. You go on to describe yet another situation with you and your son that makes absolutely no sense to the original query of where I am exhibiting a "double standard".

By the way, it's not polite to flame people because you don't like their posts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it differs from that of yours.

Tink
 ksue44
Joined: 6/20/2005
Msg: 39
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 4:40:01 PM
OP - it comes down to 2 separate issues here. The emotional "where do I stand" and the "financial" considerations. Yes, we have to raise the issue of $$ if a marriage should take place.

IMO, if one is to marry, the marriage should come first from pretty much every standpoint. There will be times when the grown kids need help (moving, medical, etc). You'd want your spouse to be there for their children (no matter what age) in the time of need, after all that is good parenting. I kind of had the same issue as OP did, when I dated a man with 4 grown children (ranging from age 20-32). Two of the "grown" children (ages 26 & 27) lived at home. One attended college full time, therefore did not pay rent, was not responsible for chores, rules, etc. The other worked full time, so he paid a nominal amount of rent, however no chores, no rules, etc. Not having children, there was no way that I wanted grown kids moving in under OUR roof not having rules, chores, etc. On my watch there is no free lunch.
Bluntly, he told me his kids came first. Hence, we split up. There comes a point when a parent has to let go (so to speak) and the kids have to become indpendent, after all parents aren't around forever.

Financially, wow what a hot potato, dare we talk about the $$ side. This is why 2nd marriages, etc. are much more complicated. In my case, my previous BF had owned land in NY, I had not a problem with that going to his children, but at the same token, the bills, etc. associated with that land would also go to his children. I'd want the house that he and I would live in to be paid off through life insurance proceeds. As a spouse, I wouldn't want to be tossed to the curbside with nothing but the clothes on my back, due to poor planning. This is when I tell women that you need to CYA, you need to ask questions, you need to be proactive in financial planning. If a pre-nup is needed, by all means get one. These are issues you talk about BEFORE marriage. Ex BF wanted everything jointly. Well, I passed on that one because we'd be living in the house that I bought before knowing him (there's no way I'd want him on the title); and I'd want some control over the $$ that I do earn. As self centered as this may sound, no one will look after you, but YOURSELF. There's far too many elderly women that are broke because of poor planning.

OP - you had a cad that was clueless. Was he a bad guy? Probably not. What you have learned from this is to be proactive about your future (emotionally, physically, financially, and spiritually). Not every fella with a daughter is a bad deal. It's like my ex BF, wonderful guy, but we just didn't "jive" on the same issues and those were major issues. To this day (2 years later) his grown kids are still living at home. Go figure!
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 40
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/29/2007 8:51:59 PM
"I chose not to have children" are you sure it was your choice or something far greater placed the thought because of the way you think."

There is a fair amount of people who chose not to have children. In general, those with children are more in touch with how other people choose to allow adult children to want to take first place over a new spouse. While people who chose not to have children also chose not to be involved with someone with whom they would be treated as less than the child or adult child in a relationship.

Some people are ok with not being treated at least equal with other family members while most are not.
 aNgeLiCbLoNdiE
Joined: 9/7/2006
Msg: 41
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 5:48:40 AM
If someone wants to make their kids the center of their universe, fine. But to expect a partner to swallow that? That's too d*mn selfish.

That person should not date, or only date casually. Anyone who gets seriously involved w/ a self-centered Big Daddy or Big Mommy type is asking 4 it. Take it from one who knows. They are just not emotionally available, if they are so attached to their adult offspring.

Balance. People need to keep this word in mind.
 prolibertate
Joined: 9/11/2005
Msg: 42
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 6:10:36 AM

What has the sloppy second wife brought into the picture? She has probably brought her liabilities and her feeling of abandonment from her 1st, 2nd and likely third relationship, before she GOT TO ME ! She likely has NO investment or interest in caring for my children.

In my opinion, Term Life Insurance is a great bridging finance tool, until the new marriage becomes established, and to see if she can survive in this 'family' committment.


Wow...talk about making assumptions! lol...Perhpas she brought in her own assets from being an independent, goal-oriented, smart woman...and doesn't need anyone's monetary support.

As for caring for someone's children, generally they still have a mother to do that, and a step-mother never can take the mother's place, but they can be loving, welcoming parents to children regardless...and the 'investment' for them is to have a happy family...not to mention she'd care about them 1) because they're *your* children, and 2) for who they are themselves.

as for Term Life Insurance, if this thread had been about you, I'd say she should also get some insurance, since you've also been divorced...so what guarantees does she have that *you* don't bring your own baggae and liabilities into the relationship? Regardless, goign into a marriage with the attitude that it will/can fail is sure to make that happen.

As for the OP, they were talking about a 25 year old 'child' - that's an adult...and one of the best things a parent can do for their child is to make sure they learn responsibility and how to take care of themselves. Leaving them something in one's will isn't the way to do that; that's a friggin' bonus...I already told my mother to spend everything she has as I don't want anything but some personal memento of hers. It's what she gave me - non-material - all through my life that matters the most to me...no monetary gift could ever come close to that.
 beachesofnc
Joined: 4/19/2006
Msg: 43
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 9:57:26 AM
aurora...I'm with you on this. I too encountered a "situation" in which I married a man and helped him raise his children, who were 10 & 15 at the time. After many years of dealing with an alcoholic ex wife, paying for college tuition, trying to sober up one child and get him counseling, and turning a blind eye to the "connection" between father and daughter, we have now been separated for 3 years. The children aged, but they never grew up and their father never had the spine that a father needs. I was never a priority in his life; never was enough...but his daughter surely was. As a spouse and a life partner, regardless of whether we actually "birthed" the children, we deserve to be a priority. I may not have been these 2 kids biological mother, but I assumed all the roles and responsibility of one yet I never got the respect or the privileges of one.

You did the right thing by walking. After 16 years of marriage and helping to support kids that weren't mine, I am now alone but I can honestly say that I am at peace and have found contentment. Like you, I may date a man that has children, but depending on what I observe in their relationship will tell me whether or not there will be a future relationship. People may think that this is harsh, but until you've walked a mile in these shoes.....
 Sistermary
Joined: 3/11/2006
Msg: 44
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 11:59:50 AM

I may date a man that has children, but depending on what I observe in their relationship will tell me whether or not there will be a future relationship.


And a big AMEN to that from me!!!!!!!!! There would have to be, as one poster observed, "balance".
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 12:15:05 PM

All assets become the joint property of the husband and wife at the date of either cohabitation or marriage. There does not necessarily have to be a "set formula" for the division of estate property. The widow/widower can very well be entitled to 100% UNLESS it is stipulated otherwise in some form of agreement whether it be a Will or Pre-Nuptial or Post-Nuptial Agreement.


This is very incorrect. Separate property - property owned by a person prior to marriage - remains separate property and should be documented for future reference. Only property accumulated AFTER marriage can be considered joint property. This is basic elementary Family Law 101. I got an A in that class.

Neither party has right or entitlement to separate property of the other party unless there is a testamentary trust, will, or other written agreement to that effect. A person's children are entitled to one-half of the deceased parent's estate, the spouse the other one-half, unless there is a will to the contrary disposing of such property.

This is something you all need to consider when entertaining the idea of marriage with a person who has grown children. They do have entitlement by the rules of descent and distribution to the separate property of their parent - but my advice would be to consult with an attorney prior to even thinking about "the ties that bind".
 beachesofnc
Joined: 4/19/2006
Msg: 46
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 1:28:10 PM
When I made my initial response to this, I in no way even considered the financial issues and what happens to property after death, etc. In my opinion, the whole " who do we leave all our possessions to" discussion wouldn't even come into play if there was a question in my mind about the relationship between parents, children (grown or minors) and me. In the long run, yes...finances are a big part of the whole marriage picture, but let's face it...there won't be a marriage if I'm not riding shotgun.
 Sistermary
Joined: 3/11/2006
Msg: 47
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 2:50:36 PM

They do have entitlement by the rules of descent and distribution to the separate property of their parent


That may be the case in the State in which that poster resides but, under Alberta law, my understanding is that they would have to prove dire NEED if they are over the age of majority (which is 18 in the Province of Alberta). Here,only children under the age of majority have a RIGHT to a share in a parent's estate and that share would be held by the Public Trustee until the child becomes of age (unless,of course, the biological parents are still married to each other and have what we call "back to back" wills, each naming the other as sole beneficiary). In Alberta, the only person who is entitled always is a spouse. You cannot disinherit your spouse. The law does not allow it. Even if a person dies intestate, the spouse can still inherit a certain portion of the estate and gets the first disbursement. The law here recognizes that a spouse has first priority over anyone else.

Laws are different everywhere, so one has to investigate the applicable laws of their particular domicile. I agree with other posters that these are fairly complicated matters, so one should know the law and make a will.

sheesh, gotta go - duty calls. The boss wants me to sue somebody
 ladycs
Joined: 1/4/2007
Msg: 48
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 3:13:31 PM
Advice: Don't date men with kids. Simple enough, don't you think? Look into the "never married" or "divorced without children" or "widowed without children." Baggage (as regards kids) never ends, that's a fact.
 five-marie
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 49
Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 3:59:06 PM
People who care and look after their children are not people to be avoided! While I plan on leaving my assets to my children I've always treated the man in my life special. I can love both my children and a man I choose to include in my life. There isn't and shouldn't be a choice. It's not a contest. If it was, there would be no winners.
 tinkerbellcgy
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 50
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Dating a man with an adult daughter
Posted: 1/30/2007 4:20:57 PM

A person's children are entitled to one-half of the deceased parent's estate, the spouse the other one-half, unless there is a will to the contrary disposing of such property.

This is not totally correct in the jurisdiction in which I reside.



consult with an attorney prior to even thinking about "the ties that bind"

this is good advice and I might add "if there are children, either infant or adult, involved in this marriage".

Both Sistermary and I are paralegals in Alberta. She is very correct as well in what she has previously written with respect to our jurisdiction.

The bottom line is consult with a lawyer if you wish to remarry but have children from a previous marriage/relationship to ascertain how the laws in your jurisdiction will affect your property and the succession of that property to your children upon your marriage and ultimately your death.

This is all that I will say on this subject. Commenting on this thread makes me feel like I'm at work! LOL

Matrimonial/common-law/cohabitation laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction just as they vary from country to country.

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