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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 6:46:50 AM | DancingQueen,
You're very wise for your age. My boundaries are such that if a lady has been intimate with a man she wants to keep as a friend, I'm not interested in a relationship with her. I in turn would not keep a lady that Ive been intimate with as a friend. It's not a matter of trust, but of a guarded jealousy that says I want to be your best friend, your trusted confidant, advisor and priority in your life. Keeping former lovers as friends is a selfish attitude and disrespect for a significant other. If they were such great friends why are they not together still? | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 6:47:32 AM | I have been a counselor in some respect for more than 20 years. When one partner has an inordinate number of opposite-sex friends it is always, given time, 100% fatal to a relationship. You can argue and give your opinion - doesn't matter. It is fatal to a relationship.
More than 20 times in my short life I have had couples, including married couples, sitting with me with a relationship in tatters because of this. You may look at the current state of your relationship and say, "these guys/girls are only friends." That is true now. The problem is:
1) Lots of people, women especially, use an orbit of circling men as an escape hatch - especially former dates that they have told "let's just be friends." If something goes wrong with a relationship that they are actually invested in, they have other people that they can fall back on that they already know are interested. Someone who wants to keep opposite-sex friends in an orbit additionally demonstrates that, because they want this safety net, they are not really serious about developing a relationship with and investing everything in just one person.
2) You may be friends right now, but when your romantic relationship gets hairy or unfulfilling, you WILL be tempted to seek solace and comfort from these opposite-sex friends instead of investing more in your romantic relationship and trying to iron out whatever problems may exist. Dozens of times (that I personally know of) somebody running to an opposite-sex friend "just to talk" or for comfort quickly escalates into an affair and tanks the romantic relationships of one or both of them.
3) Even if YOU have the best of intentions - that doesn't mean your opposite-sex friends do. More than once, somebody who has sworn that they only wanted to remain friends has had their relationship torpedoed in one way or another by an opposite-sex friend who decided that either it ought to be something more or that if he/she tanks your current love relationship, he/she can then have you.
This, as I say, given time, is ALWAYS 100% fatal. It is a bad idea and someone who denies this is responding on a naively emotional level rather than facing facts. And someone who needs to have a bunch of opposite-sex friends hanging around all the time is simply not ready for a committed, exclusive, romantic relationship. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 6:53:14 AM | ^ Gotta love the "if you disagree with me, you're wrong" argument.
Even when my last relationship was rocky, I was not tempted by my friends. They are friends for a reason. Even if I was tempted... I'm not so weak as to cheat on someone. It all depends on your personality. I prefer the company of women because I seem to have more in common with them, not because I want in their pants.
Consider briefly that you're likely only seeing the problem side of things as a consoler. You aren't seeing the people that are perfectly happy. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 6:53:29 AM |
This, as I say, given time, is ALWAYS 100% fatal.
You can't claim that with any certainty whatsoever. You may believe it, but you can't just blanketly state it's always fatal all the time. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 7:07:03 AM | I am going to elaborate on the male female friend thing.
Friends for opposite sex:
Men and women can be mates if:
The man or women does not find the other one attractive, this can be applied to:
Work colleagues, school buddies and university mate’s things like that where they have had some external influence help them form bonds, but there is a big BUT here.
Men and women are not normally true mates if they met in the context of attraction, what this means is:
The man asking the women out or showing intention or vica versa and the other person stating flatly they want to be mates, with the other one hanging on in hope to break that down and prove they are worthy of more: Hence one is attracted to the other but the other is not.
This is based on a lot of research into this topic for wanting to understand my ex and her need to have guy mates, different versions of them.
Some where University buddies and I would have trusted her to share the same bed with them naked and I knew nothing would go on, the others showed a clear interest of attraction from either her or from them, so I researched this theory and I have think I know a good few things.
Men and women can become friends, if they have some mutual interest: Family members, mates, sisters BF/GF brothers or sisters, Sisters mates, brothers mates, people you build a close connection with and are seen more as a brother or sister type situation or in the context of someone to help out when in a fix or offer advice, for example a not sure how to wire up electric, I will contact bob he will help!
The difference with men and women who are mates when it becomes an issue:
Men will play the friendship game to try to score with women, I know loads of pathetic men who I have tried to help with this very thing:
The innocent girl and the potential guy mate.
They date the girl and come across as too needy, too nice like a Rick Astly selling cuddly toys nice, it puts the women off but at the same time they don’t want to hurt his feelings, so they think: I will be mates with him, he seems a lonely poor chappie! What they don’t realize the poor smuck wonders why you just want to be mates and he thinks he as to try harder, to be NICER to try to win you over, all this shows is he is proving he wants to be a mate! It is a battle of confusion the innocent girl takes his weak advances for friendship as the guy does not want to cross the line of being too nice, in-case he looses what little he has> This is the guys fault, he needs to man the fu** up and stop being a doormat.
The above works for girls also.
The bitc* women, coupled with a low self esteem:
This type of women needs validation from all the chumps about like the guys above, she gets chatted up and usues this to get the guys to buy her things, treat her like a queen but offer nothing back. She simply strings along the men for validation, she has self esteem issues and needs the constant reminder that she is hot from sad chumps who are willing to be tagged along. She calls them mates when in reality they would call over broken glass coated in doggie do just to get a sniff . | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 7:10:42 AM | My post got cut up here is the last part, silly forums :D
Yes men can be that pathetic and women know it, what is worse is when the above type of women mask’s her esteem issues and eventually meets a good normal guy, she cant drop her validating chumps and hope her new BF will believe her when she tells him there just mates: The unwise male accepts it as he is not a jealous guy until time goes on and he sees just how much lack of respect she shows and the type of men she surrounds herself with . | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 7:13:35 AM | dam these forums they have chopped up my great post:
Now if a women is a mate with a guy who as shown sexual interest in her, then sorry you to me fit the criteria of the bitc* in need for validation and me personally I would drop you faster then a used nappie! I have been down that road and it stinks.
But if you where a women who genuinely had decent male friends, had not self esteem issues and met them via methods that did not involve you wanting to hook up or them, then that is more then acceptable.
I will state:
Every guy I have ever known who is pretty cr** with women, usually has about 3-5 girl mates . after probing them they always admit they want more and are waiting for there chance, they hate there BF and any other guy that comes in there lives. Days later I see the same guys acting like mates, it pains me to see how innocent these girls are and what these nice guys are thinking about doing to them under the disguise of mates.
I don’t blame the women for it, but I do blame them if when these chump* make there interest known, they still let them stick around, that’s just wrong on so many levels.
Also trust is for fools, I trust as long as she has RESPECT!
If i date a women again who entertains men that clearly want more, i wont stick around, just a heads up for women that think keeping male friends about is ok, yes it is but lets at least establish what is ok or not, wanting to entertain others of the opposite sex who want more then friendship is DISRESPECTFUL to your partner, something i see a lot of women dont seem to understand since too many need the constant validation and dic*s in glas* cases syndrome. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 8:29:34 AM | ... my best friends are male. They are there and understand me better then any of my female friends...
But, if I am ever involved - partner's friendship comes first. It's out of respect and love. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 11:02:01 AM | | Msg#13.."Its very rare for a woman to have "true"male friends"...When you are under 30, thats true..I see that many 20 somethings have very shallow and superficial relationships with the opposite sex, whether it is friendship or not....Alot of insecure game playing, egos running amock and immaturity......So wait a bit...Both men and women get more secure and have more self confidence as well as assert their needs more as they get older.....Things change in your 30s and many men your age at that time and beyond make good friends with women... | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 11:17:57 AM | My ex and I dated for 2 years, and yes, we are very good friends. Anyone who comes into my life now would HAVE TO accept it. No exceptions. I find it funny that people take all their bad experiences and fit everyone to a cute little mold. Of course, I understand that you should be weary if your significant other has a not-so-normal number of friends of the opposite sex. However, whether you are attracted to them or not should only affect your current relationship if you are a weak person. If you and the ex and the current all hang out and there is nothing to hide, I find it works out well.
I don't give a flying hoo-ha what "researchers" say. My ex has all the qualities I look for in a friend.... just not the qualities I look for in a boyfriend. That's why I keep him around. Some people tend to lose sight of why you liked that person in the first place. "Ex" does not equal "someone to run back to if all else fails". If that's your reason for keeping him/her around, then you are friends for all the wrong reasons. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 11:37:16 AM | #313- Many 20 -somethings have very shallow and superficial relationships in general-- this isn't limited to the opposite sex.
Of course, it could just be that I notice this with my own gender because we don't talk about ourselves much.  | |
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Dijita
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Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 313 | |
| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 1:53:10 PM | it pains me to see how innocent these girls are and what these nice guys are thinking about doing to them under the disguise of mates.
Dude... don't delude yourself.
Stop and think for a minute. Girls; Women have been receiving passive to aggressive sexual signals from practically eveything with a schlong that has crossed their path from... well god knows how long, but if I were to get extreme and gross about it - probably (at some point) WAY before something like that should even be a presence.
Ain't no innocent girls out there when it comes to the mating game, just inexperienced.
...sometimes ...maybe
Here's a way to gauge it: Do you know any guys who girls think are hot, and get 'all the action' so to speak? He has probably half (if that) the 'hits' as a female counterpart. [If you want quantifiable evidence, look no further than PoF. Browse men, looking for dating, and what you objectively consider 'hot', like someone you'd see on TV or some shallow shit like that. Look at their favorite's number. Repeat this for enough times to get a good sampling.
Now go to the same geographical area, age, looking for - in the women seeking section; and again take note of the #of favorites. I'll think you'll see a significant difference.]
Now... 'probe' mr hot friend and try to get his slant on the female attention... tell me he's innocent about it. Your female friends... they have far greater experience in this regard. They're women... not stupid. Do you think your girl friend(s) don't know these guy friends are checkin her out?
Forget everything you know about women - stop seeing them as a gender, but instead as a person with a brain and the same hard wired desires and socialization as you. That's the reality. People fulfill their own needs Sex is a big one - when two people of sexual compatability make deliberate friends of each other... it's rarely if ever platonic or paternal.
One other point too. Age (20something 30something errm 10something *scratches his head*) doesn't change a damn thing either. Difference is: I can look at a woman who's 30+ just the right way, and she knows exactly what I'm asking her, and she'll look at me just a certain way and both parties know then and there if it's going anywhere or not. End of subject. If the look never occurs...it's because it's deliberately avoided. If a 25~xx woman invites me to a one on one social situation. It's sex under the surface maybe not then and there, maybe not ever... but it's there.
This isn't a gender question - it's a human question.
And another thing.... Sleeping with someone male or female, isn't a sign of being "pathetic". It's just choice. I like sex, and choose to engage in it, and will take as much or as little as I choose at the moment. That doesn't make me pathetic - I am exercising my free will to experience the things I want while I'm still alive to want things.
On a personal note "probing" your "mates" in over-zealous defense of your female "mates", and basically calling both parties dogs and bitches; all under the guise of Mr Knight Guy - Is both very telling of where you fall in the scheme of things here, and isn't the sign of what I would consider a good mate. You should be nicer to your friends, someday you may need them to hook you up with someone you really like but don't know how to approach. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/17/2007 3:39:10 PM | | I will be one of those disapproving men once I enter into a relationship long term..I have been and seen so many of my friends at work with there so called lady girl friends who have a boyfriend or are engaged and wouldn't have it with my mate.They party and fool around and sleep together the the way the always did and always will until someone who they care for enters there life who is worth giving your heart to . | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/24/2007 5:14:11 AM | So tika_breaker, dancingqueen, others that feel as they do. Please answer me this.
If a guy 'friend' tried to kiss you, make out with you, get with you, whatever - with - you, and say attempted this in a respectful, not over the top I-am-a-jerk way.
You tell him NO! (Perhaps more tactful then that, but still NO)
He backs off and respects you, understands, does not get mad, etc.
Will you still be their friend?
What if you led them on?
Will you still be their friend after you tell them, "No, nothing personal but I just don't see you that way."
Can you be their friend or not?
If not, why not? | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/24/2007 5:58:08 AM | ^ Gotta love the "if you disagree with me, you're wrong" argument.
NO, NO, It's ALWAYS 100% fatal... the counselor said so, so it must be correct! Nevermind your stupid life experiences which tell you different, this guy KNOWS, so STOP arguing. I mean, I know I am gonna tell all my male friends they have to go, and today! 100% fatal, goodness.. thankfully, this enlightened man has straightened me out!
:rolleyes: | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/24/2007 5:30:23 PM | From someone who life long friends have been men, this is a good question. My most recent ex boyfriend, whom is still a good friend, was extremely jealous of my male friends. He could not stand the fact that someone I thought very highly of was male. Even one of my high school buddies, who is gay, brought out the green monster in him.
Guys, if you can't trust us in your heart, leave us. I for one have NEVER cheated, nor will I ever do so. But at the same time, I refuse to stop talking to people who have been a huge part of my life for any period of time, just because it makes you jealous. I will be considerate, I will not speak their praises to you, I will not talk to them around you, i will not put them first. But I refuse to put them 100% aside because it bothers you. Trust me, or leave me.
Some guys have a reason to be worried, but I think that others are just too over protective, or are too unsure of themselves.
We also get jealous of your female friends. But do you see us removing them from your msn, or asking you not to talk to them? If we have, then leave us because we're not worth it. You have to respect each other's past, present and future.. and if you can't accept the things and the people have are in those times, then you should be looking elsewere.
Just my 2 cents worth. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/24/2007 6:01:50 PM | | I understand where you are coming from. My boyfriend has 2 female friends. I guess my biggest issue, is that he talks to them daily, and when we are together on the weekends, I soley keep my time for him. Where he has to talk to them no matter what. And its not just once a day. And its not him calling them its them calling him. And no they dont like the fact that he has me. But I tolerate it. I have male friends, but we dont talk everyday. There is no need to. My life doesnt change on a dime. I dont blow off my friends, but it is what it is. I am with someone I care about so, I do put there feelings first. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/24/2007 6:21:58 PM | I have no problem with a woman who has male, straight friends as well as female straight friends. In fact, I see it as a sign of maturity.
But I know some younger women who hang out with a crowd of young men, who clearly have no interest in ANY women except for sex, and the few females that they know are clearly hanging onto these women, in case they can get a boyfriend from one of these men.
I have no problem with these women either. As long as they are fully aware of what these men want. If the woman tries to deny these men's intentions, then she is not being fully honest with me.
It is the lack of honesty that destroys the relationship, not anything else.
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 5/27/2007 8:05:52 AM | Scorpiomove, as far as I am concerned you hit the nail straight on the head.
I have said this for many years that honesty is first and formost. With out it there can never be anything else. Even if the truth hurts, to reframe from lieing shows respect. And if you think your mate does not know your lieing, think again. D | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 6/7/2007 1:02:44 PM | | Personally, I don't mind if the girl has a few guy friends and what-not. I do, however, do get hesitant when I hear or see one of those friends hitting or showing interest. That's pretty much the only time I would feel jealous. To me, as long as we both trust eachother, and we arent going to fool around, I'm good. I don't care if she wants to hang out with her guys friends often, just as long as I know she can be faithful. Its just those over-zealous friends that want more on the side that are a pain in the arse. I wouldn't do the "it's me or him" thing, but I would show concern. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 6/7/2007 1:17:44 PM | | sushisake...this is an old post I have just read and I can't believe this is even coming up. I am single and have 3 great male friends, when I met them all one was just out of a divorce, another was dating my friend and the other was business and he is married. So the 1st 2 I could have been with and them with me, but they are my friends, for a few years now. Why would I give up that? I would never ask of a man to give up his female friends, becasue if they were both single, why would they not go together if they wanted to? does not make sense. I have no attraction to my male friends at all, I look to them for support, someone to visit and chat with...I go over with there wives and girlfriends there, I now hang with all of them. Now to be on a dating site, if ur in a relationship seeking more friends of the opposite sex, I think that is wrong..but it is more wrong for a person to ask another to give up someone they care about deeply, as I do my friends...they will be with me till I die I hope and have our kids grow up together..so ur post is ur own issues that you need to deal with. | |
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| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 6/7/2007 1:23:50 PM | | drjj1967. I understnad what you are saying and there are cases like such. But how many in 20 yrs have you encountered? My 3 males friends have never made a move or me on them no matter what emotionsal state either of us has been in. None are ex's of mine...one is from business, one my friend left for another man in the bad way and left him there needing help, I helped him years ago and now he is married with children and is my closest and dearest friend and believe me, we have been through alot of pain from relationships and never ever went that way...another one i met on a dating site and I knew I was not into him before I met him but I said hey we can be such good frineds...and for 2.5 yrs we have been...he dates, I date and no way would I ever even want to kiss him, grosses me out. The business one is married with kids and I visit his family and am not attracted to him...So u can not say this is 100% gonna happen, I know many people that have opposite sex friends for 10 or more years and have had heartaches and never hooked up and I would know, cuz they would tell me. So please don't judge everyone as you only councel so many people | |
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Dijita
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Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 325 | |
| Males disapproving of women having male friends
Posted: 6/9/2007 5:33:31 AM | | I agree, simply dating someone is no reason at all to turn your back on friends. That is not the same as a committed partnership. In which case you STILL shouldn't turn your back on a lifetime friend - in my experience though, when I become involved in a committed relationship - some aspects of my world get smaller and other aspects become greater. Bottom line is: If I have a woman I care about, there's no way in hell I will be going out to the clubs with my female friends on even a semi-regular basis, so we can "hang out". I wouldn't have it, and I certainly wouldn't give it either. | |
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