| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 8:41:07 AM | Watchman: so you're saying that the "lower 50%" are all floor moppers? 
When are you going to face that everyone doesn't and CAN'T make alot of money in our society?
It doesn't work like that. It exploits inequality.
I'm not saying that's totally bad, either. I'm just saying your expectations that everyone can make more money are downright silly!!! | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 8:47:05 AM | The structure is designed so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And POOR includes all of us here. The gap gets bigger and bigger with each year.
Before WWII a CEO made 40 times that of an entry level worker. Today they make 1000 times more then an entry level position, a THOUSAND times more! No one is worth that much, and any excuse you buy is B.S. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 8:55:33 AM |
if the US government LETS the rich own everything, why shouldn't they pay the lion's share of the taxes?
The government doesn't let anyone own anything. Property rights are rights. That's like saying the government let's us have freedom of speech. My freedom of speech is mine and I'll be damned if government is going to take it from me without due process of the law. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 8:56:23 AM | It was using my thinking cap that took my poverty level income and turned it into upper middle class. Perhaps you should try putting on a thinking cap and initiating some drive and det3ermination as well? I think you would probably do much better.
As for who is going to sweep the floors, the individual that is working two jobs while they get an education so they can provide a better life for themselves.
Or they can just be deadbeat and lazy and remain at the poverty level. It's all about the choices you make, everyone has the opportunity... | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 9:04:30 AM | I have to partially disagree with you on this one, watchman. If someone is working minimum wage jobs, at least the person is doing something useful. He's contributing to society with his labor and his taxes, even if not much. Anyone willing to do that kind of work deserves credit as a working American. I agree they should try to better themselves, but that's their own business.
What I don't understand is why someone feels they are entitled to my tax dollars to support whatever lifestyle or political agenda they might have. If a man works at Burger King and makes $6.00 an hour he shouldn't have 7 children he can't pay for. That's wrong because it leaves the realm of simple individual choice and begins to infringe on the rights of others (in this case the children). And it becomes my business when I have to spend tax money to pay for child care, milk, etc. for these children. And now we have a situation where an illegal immigrant comes over here, takes a job he is not entitled to have legally, and then has the gall to demand I fork over my money, which I also worked to earn, to pay for his lifestyle. Screw that. Where did we get the idea that other people have the "right" to your money? | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 9:05:20 AM | turned it into upper middle class
And you are still in the same boat as the rest of us, Not Rich!
So you've pushed yourself from maybe $10,000/yr to $100,000/yr, that is still peanuts compared to what the Big Boys are taking. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 9:08:44 AM | Where did we get the idea that other people have the "right" to your money?
They are just emulating the Rich. How do you think they got Rich? By taking other peoples money, Yours! | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 9:14:47 AM | Trewq, I don't usually agree with you, but you are right in one respect. Many of our wealthiest people are thieves protected by laws that they payed to have passed. Just think of the contortions we had to go through just to get the Enron scum put in jail; if you or I did what CEOs do, we'd be in a pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison in about 5 minutes.
But "poor" people think it's OK for them to steal from me using the taxation system, and that's just as bad. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 9:23:39 AM | Watchie: no, no and no... you don't get it.
PAY at different levels exists because of the supply/demand equation. If more people are educated to do a job than the number of jobs available requiring that job skill, then the wages for that job will go down.
Since our economy only has a certain number of jobs that pay well and a certain amount of money to pay, it doesn't make any difference HOW MANY people are educated to do it. They won't be able to work in those jobs unless the wages for that job go down. That's the first rule of economics, bud.
Kadmus: the government LETS the rich have what they have. Governments can nationalize things or tax people. Get used to it... and they can limit your freedom of speech also. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:01:46 AM | Trewq, I don't consider $100,000 upper middle class.
Though net worth usually determines social class, incomes between $20,000 and $75,000 are generally considered middle class. Most economists define "middle class" citizens as those with net worths of between $25,000 (low-middle class) to $250,000. However, net worths slightly over $250,000 generally are not considered to be wealthy, yet rather, upper-middle-class. Those with net worths between $250,000 and $1 million typically are categorized as upper-middle-class.
Avatar, I am not saying that people in low income jobs are not being productive. I AM saying that they have the same opportunity to create a better life as every other American does. If they choose to remain at the low income level it is by their own choice or lack of actions.
The job saturation analogies are just garbage, get another vocation or get more creative with the one you have. There is always a way to rise to the top... | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:04:35 AM |
The job saturation analogies are just garbage, get another vocation or get more creative with the one you have. There is always a way to rise to the top...
Tell that to IT's whose jobs are being sent to India | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:11:56 AM | Watchman...
Yes I agree that everyone does have a choice.
You do have to have that drive. Some people just dont have it.
Does not make them good or bad though. Some things just fall. It is a matter of picking yourself up again.
All the above have great points. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:19:23 AM | exavier: The point is that even if everyone did all they could to get in the best jobs they could and be successful at it, there would still be x-percentage of people making this much less. It's impossible for it to be any other way. WHO they are is not an issue. It's a math thing
Watchman doesn't get it. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:37:20 AM | I guess I thought he was simply saying that everyone in America has the opportunity to better themselves.
Be.. if you came from a poor family or a rich family. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:43:26 AM | Watchman: Our economy right now needs x amount of "floor sweepers", y amount of truck drivers, z amount of burger flippers... and has a amount of dollars to pay them with.
Now, let's say they ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the workers work for themselves.
Does that affect their wages?
Let's say they're ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL bachelors of arts...
Does THAT affect their wages?
Can you sweep floors with a computer?
But floors still need to be swept, right?
Even if college educated people had to do it.
And by the way: do you know what happens to college tuitions if EVERYONE signs up for school at the same time?
Some won't be able to attend... and not only that; but tuitions will rise, making a college education even more inaccessible.
And you know what will happen if everyone owns their own company?
Some will go out of business because there won't be enough work to support every one of them.
No. The capitalist system functions BECAUSE of inequalities and continues because of progressive taxation. No other way it could function without some form of it. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:44:25 AM | | Spankie, I agree with you to a point, but I also agree with Watchman to a point. Not everyone is born with the same inherent opportunities, but those opportunities are still available. America has taken many steps to ensure this. Scholarships to college for poor, black, native American, etc. Anyone can go to college if they have the ambition to do so. I think you're both right. We don't all have the same inherent opportunities, but we are afforded these opportunities all the time. It's whether we have the motivation to do so that we get stuck. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:45:17 AM | I grew up with 8 brothers and sisters. Trust me! We were POOR.
But I had a choice not to become like that as a adult.
My X grew up in a trailer park. Not the nice one either. Went to the worst schools.
He is very successful. But he took that Opprotunity and made it better for himself.
If your born to a shoe maker.... Does not mean you have to be a shoe maker.
Those days are long over.... | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage?
Posted: 4/13/2005 10:52:02 AM | Spankie: I am a lower-middle class white male who couldn't afford to go to college.
Hello, Army.
Like, I said, those opportunities exist, but you have to be motivated to get them. | |
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