Posted By: bulldogmedic on 06-09-2004 06:43 PM

Message: Igotoosu, no one is being indentured into servitude. Everyone is choosing what to do with their own life. If everyone is given the same opportunities, then I don't really want to hear about how "society is keeping them down".

It's not like Canada where education is more affordable. There are people down here who live in places without hot water..

Does not apply because the government will not raise the minimum wage by 20%

See how I skillfully brought the subject around to Bush? I learned that in Damn Socialist Liberal Traitor camp

On April 1, 1990 the federal minimum wage was increased from $3.35 per hour to $3.80; a year later it was increased to $4.25, for a combined increase in excess of 25 percent

You seem to have the attitude that everyone who is at the bottom is there due to lack of ambition, and that is simply wrong.

you're just mad because I've shown the inconsistency in your reasoning (again)

I don't support ANY cuts in combat pay or any other type pay cut for our active-duty military, just as I am angry at Congress for not fully funding Veterans programs. While I don't expect your memory to be any better then your reasoning there have been many times/issues here at POF that I have not supported Pres. Bush's stance, including agreeing that the Iraqi war was technically illegal.

However, I can still support his goal of democracy in the Middle East, starting with the fairly optimistic current situation in Iraq.

(obviously too complex for Elwood),

Cutting Combat Pay?

Edwards twice accused the administration of having "lobbied the Congress" to cut the combat pay of troops in Iraq, when in fact the White House never supported such a plan.

Rather, the Defense Department proposed allowing a temporary pay increase for all troops worldwide (even those not in Iraq or Afghanistan) to expire, and promised to maintain current pay levels for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with separate pay raises if necessary.

Army Times reported in its issue for the week ending Aug. 18, 2003 that a Pentagon budget assessment sent to Congress in July called for letting a temporary combat pay raise enacted earlier that year for troops worldwide expire at the end of the fiscal year, Sept. 30. The result would have been a cut of $75 a month in "imminent danger pay" and $150 a month in "family separation allowances."

But according to an Aug. 15 American Forces Press Service report, David S.C. Chu, defense undersecretary for personnel and readiness, said the department could raise hardship duty pay or incentive pay. The bottom line: "We are not going to reduce their compensation," Chu said. The Pentagon also said in an Aug. 14 news release : "This is an issue of targeting those most deserving, and certainly people serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are in these categories."

even Hitler came up with the Beetle and the autobahn

You have to realize that:

- mention of things Bush has done well don't erase those he has not

- mention of Clinton's lies/mistakes doesn't negate Bush's lies/mistakes

- the hope for a real democracy in Iraq doesn't mean we approve of the way the war was started

- a rational person can approve of some of his acts and not approve of others

- people who don't see Bush as evil are not 'stupid, fascist war-mongers'

- people who oppose increased welfare programs are not 'heartless **stards'

- people who do not agree with you are not 'stupid, fascist, heartless **stards'. They may have a carefully considered point of view based on information you do or do not have, and they also may (if approached nicely) listen to information you think vouches for a different point of view and actually alter their position based on that info. But, that exchange has to be a two-way street that does not veer into "you're stupid" if at first we do not agree.