| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 10:21:50 AM | | See, I think thta by you earning more, you should pay more. I'm not sure that Watchy agrees with me, but I see his point. I'm not an economist, I know little about tax problems, but I do know what the world "equal" means. It seems trewq wants to tax the rich until they're poor again, thus making them equal. I don't agree with that. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 10:23:07 AM |
just how much more do you want them to pay for your inability to pay more tax?
yes a personal attack assuming that I pay no taxes is really brilliant. First of all what difference does that make, and second I probably pay as much or more than you do! don't assume I am poor because I am defending the poor. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 10:28:02 AM | Not homes (You are so middle class), Businesses, Farms, Factories, Stocks, etc., etc., the Means to Produce, they own what it takes for us to survive. This is why people have to live on Minimum wage because the structure is such that they must "Work" for the person who owns the factory or the farm, they can not just plant their own food and live as they want. When we hear of people straving it is not because there is not enough food (we pay farmers not to grow crops), it is because they do not have any way of making money to buy the food. Some one else owns the Means to Produce and they are getting you and I to pay for it.
Did you check out any of the links I posted above? | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 10:28:14 AM |
yes a personal attack assuming that I pay no taxes is really brilliant. First of all what difference does that make, and second I probably pay as much or more than you do! don't assume I am poor because I am defending the poor.
No personal attack at all champ. Obviously you are not rich and do not pay what the rich do or you would not be sitting here crying about the rich needing to pay more tax.
The point is the top 5% already pay more than half the country in tax. It's grossly unfair to make them pay anymore. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 12:13:21 PM | Try answering the questions I posed to you....
Do you expect people to continue to pay taxes on their possessions every year they own them, even though they paid taxes when they bought those possessions? Do you realize how ridiculous that is to even say out loud? | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 12:41:59 PM | That is not what I have been saying. It is seems to me that you have little idea of the issues involed and have not bothered with the info I have post to help you understand. You are trying to turn this into an oranges and apple thing. Confuse the issue till I get pissed and then claim victory.
Well I am still waiting to hear your points, rather then your distractions. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:03:12 PM | I know exactly what your point is. I know what wage tax is and how income from wages can be deferred or not even declared legally.
What you are saying is that you want people to be taxed on their possessions every year they own them even though they are taxed at the time they purchase those possessions.
That is utterly absurd... | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:13:48 PM | No that is not what I am saying. That is your take. This is what I have said. Try reading it.
New York Times: September 15, 2004 In the past nearly three years of economic recovery, the distribution of economic growth has become more skewed than at any other time in modern memory. Currently, 47 percent of growth is flowing to corporate profits, by far the largest share than that in any of the other eight post-World War II recoveries. Fifteen percent goes to wages and salaries, the smallest share of economic growth in more than 50 years. To make matters worse, the share of compensation that is devoted to health and pension benefits is far larger during this recovery than in any other, representing a further squeeze on the wages and salaries of ordinary Americans. In 2004, take-home pay as a share of the economy dropped to its lowest level since 1929, when the government started keeping records.
Mark Weisbrot, People Before Profits People's Weekly World Newspaper, 09/23/04 14:45
The Bush team’s tax policy seems deliberately designed to shift the burden of taxes from the richest taxpayers to those who are, in their estimation, lower down on the food chain.
Getting rid of the estate that is, inheritance tax benefited less than 2 percent of taxpayers; about half of them got a windfall averaging $3.4 million. Reducing capital gains taxes is another giveaway to the rich, enabling billionaires to pay a lower marginal tax rate on their income from stock sales than that what a nurse or truck driver pays on their wages. And then there is the tax cut on stock dividends: many people thought that they would get at least something from this, since they own at least some stock in their retirement accounts. But they were tricked here too: if you have a retirement account, your income from dividends will be taxed when you withdraw the money for retirement. Only those who own stocks outside of retirement accounts overwhelmingly very rich people got a break.
ECONOMIC ISSUES OF GENERAL PAYROLL TAXES by Jonathan R. Kesselman September 1996 CRESP Discussion Paper: DP-41 Department of Economics Discussion Paper No.: 96-27 CENTRE FOR RESEARCH ON ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL POLICY DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMICS THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA VANCOUVER, CANADA V6T 1Z1
Labour incomes or payrolls are one of three major types of tax base on flows of economic resources; the other two are capital income and consumption.1 These three bases, plus a related concept of cash flows which is an alternate way of implementing a consumption base have important interrelationships. The capital income base includes returns to the ownership of business, investment, and property assets. Another tax base, total income, consists of the sum of two of the three generic bases, labour incomes plus capital incomes. The consumption base equals total income minus current savings.2 Neither the payroll base nor the consumption base (or its twin cash-flow base) taxes the ordinary returns to capital, so that neither directly affects the incentives for savings, the allocation of capital resources, or lifetime consumption choices. All three tax bases place a wedge between the amount employers pay and what employees receive and hence potentially distort incentives in the labour market. However, a tax base that does not apply to capital sources will need to impose a higher rate and greater distortions on the labour market.
The financial wealth of the top one percent of households now exceeds the combined wealth of the bottom 95 percent. The wealth of the Forbes 400 richest Americans grew by an average $940 million each from 1997-1999 while over a recent 12-year period the net worth of the bottom 40 percent of households declined 80 percent. The richest 400 Americans hold wealth equivalent to one-eighth of the GDP. The average wealth of the Forbes 400 was $200 million in 1982, just after the enactment of the Reagan-Bush "supply-side" tax package - paid for with $872 billion in deficit financing. By 1986, their average wealth was $500 million.
Source: Congressional Budget Office, Effective Federal Tax Rates: 1979-2002, March 2005
Changes in Average After-Tax Income by Income Group, 1979-2002 (in 2002 dollars) Income Category 1979 2002 Percent-Change Dollar-Change Lowest fifth $13,200 $13,800 4.5% $600 Second fifth $26,700 $29,900 12.0% $3,200 Middle fifth $38,000 $43,700 15.0% $5,700 Fourth fifth $49,800 $61,700 23.9% $11,900 Top fifth $87,700 $130,000 48.2% $42,300 Top 1 Percent $298,900 $631,700 111.3% $332,800
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:20:58 PM | Elwood et al
MajMike: typical Neocon tactic. Whenever the subject of lies or liar comes up, you guys lie louder and longer...this time it's about me being a liar...
It's a life script for you. Feel sorry for you that you have to live up to it.
Nice job to add labeling to the derision tactic, ignoring all the point by point explanations of the problem and acting as if you are 'above the fray', if you were a bear in the woods sh*t wouldn't stick to your fur.
The bad old 'neocons' (anyone who doesn't agree with you) are trying to discredit you, the only truthful, compassionate, informed, sainted (no offense to Catholics) liberal here at POF, just trying to change the world one post at a time. That cross must be getting heavy, eh?
My life script: if you mean by that doing my best to inject truth and encourage rational discussion then I accept the compliment.
I am able to discuss and disagree with so many here at POF who hold opinions counter to mine, Woodrow, Shannanigan, shore66, HnH, etc. You're the only one who just refuses to understand that while folks may not agree with you that doesn't automatically make them "ignorant and uninformed" (your words).
You don't have a monopoly on truth or understanding, but you do have an amazing ability to overstate or exaggerate (i.e. lie about) your points and then be upset when you are called on them. Life is a whole lot easier when you can admit your mistakes and accept that folks who don't agree with you may be just as smart (or smarter), just as concerned and just as informed as you feel youself to be, even though arriving at a different conclusion.
MajMike | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:23:06 PM | I read that nonsense as well trewq.. You want to continue to tax people on their investments when it was Congress who provided the tax advantages for those investments in the first place.
Do you realize who it is that lends money to the Municipalities so they have the funding to build their social services and infrastructure? It comes from wealthy people looking for a tax break on their money. If they didn't buy the bonds and invest the money, how would those social services and infrastructure get built? I'll tell you how, those municipalities would tax those living within their lines. So instead of giving the tax break to the wealthy so they invest, you want to tax the middle class that live there. Brilliant...
Even with your stats, you cannot get away from the fact that the top 5% of taxpayers payed 53.8% of all taxes. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:30:10 PM | These absurdities means that someone making $10,000 pays tax at a higher rate than someone making $5,000, while someone with no other income than the interest on $100 million in tax-free munis pays nothing. http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/rlewis_20041115.html
Equal taxation for all! | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:32:15 PM | You're right, the intentionally obtuse annoy me.
Back to calling folks "stupid" again, I see. Is it just your fav or do you need a thesaurus?
And if the messenger is a lying peckerwood twisting the message on purpose, he deserves to be shot (figuratively folks, no guns here).
MaMike | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:32:49 PM |
how would those social services and infrastructure get built? By making the rich pay for them. And again the top 5% own 80% of the country so they should pay 80% of it's cost. | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:34:50 PM |
And again the top 5% own 80% of the country so they should pay 80% of it's cost.
So you want to tax them on their possessions? You want to continually tax them every year for possessions they already paid taxes on when they purchased it...
This has now denigrated way beyond absurd.... | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 1:57:14 PM | MajMike: you forget your meds today? 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhkay...
I have to ask: How does a seemingly intelligent person like you get this worked up?
A stupid argument is one where you're defending Bush and you compare him to Hitler.
Now, is that my fault? | |
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 2:09:41 PM | They get 80% of the profit thay should pay 80% of the cost, how is that so strange? And again you are confusing wages with income. They Don't pay on their income, that is the whole point.
while someone with no other income than the interest on $100 million in tax-free munis pays nothing.
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| Why do people try and live off of minimum wage? Posted: 4/19/2005 4:41:08 PM | Something new, congratulations Elwood, now instead of just calling people who point out your dishonesty or disagree with you uninformed or ignorant it seems they must need to be "off their meds" as well. Not very original, but neither is "you're stupid" either, I guess you're just a man who likes the tried and true.
Since I know I am on schedule with my meds I guess the mistake must be on your end, and that would explain a h*ll of a lot of your posts, as well as your inability to understand when your views have been thoroughly discredited or shown to be outright lies.
I would hate to be seen as picking on a man with medical issues, so I ask that you maintain your medication regimen both for your own health and to keep your debate from devolving into the derision trap again. Prozac, it's not just for breakfast anymore.
MajMike | |
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