| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/4/2007 9:22:59 AM | | For the record RWGG, I think the title of the thread is bang on. The Democrats should be held to a higher standard since they are the only alternative to those who oppose the policies that have been enacted over the past 6 years. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 27 | |
| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/4/2007 9:56:59 AM | Halftime...
The title does not matter. The issue is the fact that the people we voted into office are taking away our freedoms. Nothing more was intended by my post. The title came with the article...simple. The Dems need not be held to higher accountability than the Repub's. They all should be held accountable and pay for their actions. I would love it if every politician in Washington was booted out and the common man or woman with a real stake in the world were voted in.
The last 6 years have been very bad when it comes to foreign policy and domestic terrorism threats. I do agree we need to protect this nation but taking away our rights is not the way to do it. | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/4/2007 11:09:55 AM | Hey, all:
Hey, Cotter: Gee, I love your facetiousness. Calling something so blatant, an 'innocent oversight' really tickled me. I do like your title better than even mine, since it calls attention to ALL of the clowns who are willing to fall in line with this idiot President and his criminal policies. Which party they represent should not matter, so starting out by condemning only a minority of Democrats is highly disingenuous and does not serve the reversal or suspension of this and many other acts that all these clowns have passed.
I am not a friend of liars and I will not be pacified by their condescension either. I do not suffer fools. As far as being one-sided is concerned, I have criticized many politicians of any persuasion when they were wrong in my opinion. I criticized Clinton for many things, including NAFTA, lack of environmental courage or action, failing to increase CAFÉ standards, a lousy transportation law in 1998 which did nothing to move toward sustainability, just a few among the many things I opposed. I criticize many current Democrats for the same reasons, and more. Lack of principle is the primary, essential ingredient and I find it lacking in most of them. So calling me one-sided carries with it the stench of yet another lie. And speaking of balance, all one has to do is look at the titles of other threads started by the same person to see the self-serving one-sided bias. More bull s h i t.
Hey, Halftime: I honestly don't think the standard we apply should be any different at all. I can't think of any justification for this. These representatives are elected to uphold the Constitution. There is nothing conditional about that, winking at one group or another because of their politics or affiliation. Principle needs to be emphasized above all, and that is why all of them need to be criticized for their votes.
This extends to many, many areas, but even sticking with war issues, the vote to allow BushCo. to invade Iraq, the Patriot Act vote, and probably many others I can't think of right now, need to be held against those who failed to uphold the Constitution. This WAS an issue last Fall before the November election--it was an issue brought up in Texas, since Kay Bailey Hutchison voted for BushCo. like a Stepford Wife, every stinking time--no principles, no upholding the Constitution, no nada. Of course that record could have been predicted years ago, so it is not a surprise.
The thread suggested by Cotter and used by Halftime is far more appropriate and accurate, but it still suffers for its historical obsolescence. Since the election it would be interesting to know who was held to account for their votes and lost because they could not defend the indefensible. It would be FAR MORE INSTRUCTIVE to know who is still in office after these votes and after the election. In fact, the motive for this entire thread is suspect, since it is obsolete, having been overcome by events, i.e., a U.S. General Election. Yelling and hollering about this vote, which occurred IN SEPTEMBER, is highly disingenuous and clumsy. Look at current votes if you want to do some good for the present and future. It is a new U.S. Congress.
So much for accountability and balance.
David
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/4/2007 9:28:45 PM | Hey good guy, have you watched the documentary America:Freedom to Fascism?
It is free on a site called we the people, it covers things like this and more, there is a new guy that is going to run that will try to get government back serving the peopl and not how it is now, us inslaved to their corruption, lies and fear mongering to fill the pockets of their own families and friends... Also the state of New Hampshire is trying to attract 20K people to move there and become the first state to take back the power and put it back in the hands of the people. If you want I will email you the link where it is free to watch, it is one hour and forty nine minutes of the scariest information I have ever seen.
It is well done by a famous producer, it is the truth presented in a format that has motivated me to get up and do something about the wrongs done. I will fight to the death for you and all other Americans rights, freedoms and to keep the constitution true to the men that wrote it and the millions that have died to protect it.
I read your post, followed the link and joined that forum, I am totally disgusted with what has gone on, and want all of us to stand up and stop the lies... There are so many of us and so few of them, it is amazing that those guys have gotten away with this so long...
let me know what you think about the documentary...
BL | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/5/2007 1:46:44 PM | right-wing goodguy....is that one of those trick names or just a oxymoron?
I'm not taking sides but I didn't think he was bashing anyone...I thought it was accuracy and spelling
Booting everyone out and starting over is the only way there will ever be a correction. It's not who's best or most qualified, it's who's got the connections and the money.... | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/5/2007 2:00:36 PM | Gee,
Why didnt I see any Libertarian's names on that list ?
It just seems a shame to cry foul after so many things have happenned in the past to make us aware of the problems in our own system.
Myself and friends, become part of a freedom group, back in the 80's,....buying remote land, stockpiling food and supplies , teaching gardening, and living off the land, being self sufficent, and home schooling for children.
And keeping track of things that concerned our interest, or were against our intrest.
After many years, most member lost intrest, sold off their share of the land, and moved elsewhere.
The group folded, and I was returned my investment.
We still keep in touch,..my friend,..was a stauch Bush supporter for the first term, but quickly changed his opinion.
Now, after we see our worst dreams realized, we wish we would of tried harder to keep our group together,...if only for moral support, and more minds in the think tank.
Beware of the government that is afraid of its people,.....
Bush has already taken away more rights than anyone in the history of the US
Clinton, with the swipe of a pen, took away more gun owners rights, that anyone.
The Police State isnt coming !
Its already here !
My friends and I knew it was "Us against Them", over 25 years ago,..what took you all so long to open your eyes and see that our once great nation, has been plundered,..by those in Power ?
Or did you just turn a blind eye, thinking it would get better ? | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/5/2007 2:35:36 PM |
BikerBiker53
Why didnt I see any Libertarian's names on that list?
Maybe because there aren't any Libertarians in the U.S. Congress?
Beware of the government that is afraid of its people, ...
I think you meant "Beware of the government that is not afraid of its people."? | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/5/2007 3:15:44 PM | (Msg. 29) betterlate wrote:
Hey good guy, have you watched the documentary America: Freedom to Fascism?
It is free on a site called we the people, it covers things like this and more ...
The film is produced by Aaron Russo. I have the link listed below ... found it in Msg. 193 on the "Impeachment is Imperative" thread.
Here is the link to the film:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=from+freedom+to+fascism&hl=en
The entire film is so interesting I could barely bring myself to put it on pause long enough to get up and go get myself a refill on my coffee.
Something of interest on the video at minute 1.28.12 is when a man named "Clinton Eugene Curtis" admits at the "Forum on the 2004 Presidential Election on 12/13/2004" ... that he is a computer programmer who previously worked for NASA, Exon Mobile, and the Department of Transportation and designed a program in October 2000 for present congressman Tom Feeney. (Feeney was Jeb Bush's running mate in his first race for governor in 1994.) Curtis states that the program he was asked to design can rig the elections ... can flip any issue or candidate race to produce a 51% - 49% win.
He states that no state / county election board would ever know it's in place ... can not detect it on the voting machines without the source code. Voting machine manufacturers refuse to allow anyone to see the "source code". Without paper ballots the honesty of any election cannot be verified.
Curtis states in his opinion that the Ohio presidential election was "hacked". (Remember, he was the one who wrote the program and is considered an expert on it's use.)
The "National Election Data Archive" indicates: "2004 Ohio Precinct exit poll data shows virtually irrefutable evidence of vote miscount." The film further states that anybody who trusts electronic voting machines should have their head examined.
Hmmm ... I voted in Ohio during that election and I'm here to tell you that my precinct was always 99% Democratic ... not that election. Ha, ha, ha ... as soon as we saw Ohio go to Bush ... we began screaming "FOUL PLAY" but no one wanted to believe us.
Vote as you will folks ... they've got ways to fix it and there's nothing anyone can do about it. | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/5/2007 6:14:14 PM | I ment exactly what I posted,....
People want change in America, then vote for someone that encourages a smaller, less intrusive government.
And it is,
Beware of the government that is afraid of its people. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 36 | |
| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/6/2007 2:56:56 PM | I have not come around to anything. What is wrong is wrong regardless of WHO does it.
The people who voted for this should all be voted out....period...
It is not very often I agree with an uber lib...dont get me started on their welfare ridden voter base.... | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/6/2007 7:23:52 PM | | You know goodguy I take these forums too seriously...lol...I understand where u are coming from now. I said some stupid things about u and I am sorry about that. Sometimes, I thinka bout the way our government is being run and it may be much better off with the common man in the offices instead of these wealthy elitist politicians. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/7/2007 4:33:05 AM | We all have said things we regret...don't sweat it.
I want to know what the hell these people are thinking. Why they think the constitution is now a worthless document. How can they take away what the founding fathers granted us? What they fought for. And people wonder why ALL politicians are thought of as morons. The left and the right need to get in line with the population, not the corporation. | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/7/2007 9:04:41 AM | RWGG
As usual on things that really matter, you and I have more in common than in opposition. I am totally with you on this one. I wonder why it has had virtually no play with the news media. You notice I did not say right or left wing media. This is not a right or left wing issue. This is an issue that affects the very foundation of liberty and regardless of bias, the news media should have been on this like a duck on a june bug. Once more they were asleep at the wheel.
Can you imagine someone having the cajones to introduce this legislation in the legislative body of old that had people in it like Barry Goldwater, Barbara Jordon, Hubert Humphrey, Evert Dirkson, Claude Pepper and Pat Monihan. They would have had their heads handed back to them on a platter. Russ Feingold said he voted against it because he read it. That may be the saddest commentary of all.
Thanks for bringing this one up. Now if you will just quit using terms like uberlib, I might even like you.  | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 40 | |
| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 2/7/2007 2:15:44 PM | Ok...I will do my best to lay off the uberlib thing...lol
Your right about one thing, if this stuff was pulled 20 years or more ago...it would never have gotten off the ground. What does this say about the people we elect? I think they do not care one damn bit about what we say or want...it is all about who is going to pay them and the political games they have to play in order to stay in office. BOTH parties are in a mess...lets clean house. | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 3:25:57 AM | Man this thread title is the worst thing since "Libby found innocent of lying to FBI investigators (never mind the four guilty verdicts)"
It sucks that any democrats voted for this bill. But not mentioning the overwhelming support of republicans... | |
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| 253 Representatives who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 4:22:03 AM | Charles
RWGG was taken to the woodshed earlier in this thread about the Republican support for this bill. He came back with a list of the Republicans who supported it. It sucks that anyone of either party supported this bill.
Joyce
Don't look for easy answers. Just because someone is a Republican does not make them right. In this particular case. The support of the Republicans was overwhelming. One of the things wrong with US is that too often we support our parties position regardless of what they do to us or how wrong they are. Accountability is holding everybody's feet to the fire. RWGG is a Republican in most cases but not welded to policy that is detrimental to our country as a whole. When it comes right down to it, some of us have a liberal bent, some conservative but it really depends on the issue. Nobody is totally one side or the other. | |
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| 34 Democrats who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 5:01:06 AM | Just another step, like eminent domain and the western hemisphere travel initiative, in the BIPARTISAN OBL's agenda for the creation of a North American Union. The next, 'compassionate' Comprehensive Immigration Reform (amnesty) and Open Borders.
I figure that about the time American's stop focusing on the individual steps and catch wind of the bigger picture, all he** ought to break lose. Both parties, for their own reasons, are complicit in this plan and the demise of the sovereignty and security of our country.
Stop the Security and Prosperity Partnership
http://stopspp.com/stopspp/
12 states oppose North American Union
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54613 | |
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| 34 Democrats who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 5:18:28 AM | As much as they are loathe to admit it, neither party can muster more than 25 to 30% of the vote based solely on which party they are. All of the rest of the voters are somewhere in the middle of the two. The public in this case seems to be moving far away from the Republican party line. I don't think this current group of Republicans would make a pimple on a real Republicans ass.
The problem is this administration and its heavy handed way of pushing its agenda. I think in the last election, the voters said no to that agenda. Now can we get those elected to do something about it? | |
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| 34 Democrats who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 5:21:07 AM | "Ummmm 34 democrats in favour hardly makes it bi-partisan. "
If that's in reference to my statement, I will reply that BIPARTISAN simply means supported by members of both parties. | |
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| 34 Democrats who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 7:43:10 AM | | Which ever party is in a position to use it to their advantage at the time. Right now it is Republicans under Bush, chances are, in '08, Democrats. If it's something that can be repealed, will the Democrats do so, or hold on to it, just in case? | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 50 | |
| 34 Democrats who voted to take away your freedom
Posted: 3/14/2007 11:04:50 AM | To answer a few questions thrown my way...
One poster was confused at my party affiliation ...the name RWGG confused them?
I am a registered Republican who is pissed off at the party as a whole. We have lost our balance and along the way we have screwed this country in a bad way. I like good ideas and do not care where they come from wether it is from a Dem or a Repub...
Another poster wants to know which party supported this legislation more...does it really matter? If only one member of either party is for it...that is one to many. This is bad legislation..... period.
Will the Dems repeal this when they have control...apparently not...they have yet to in the days they have taken control...not a word about it. The reason for this is simple. It gives more power to the Gov and they want to keep all they can. If a Dem wins in 08, nothing will change on this front.
We the people need to kick out everyone who voted for this...from both parties and get this thing repealed. | |
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