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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 1:01:42 PM | Re the Original Post
I disagree. For all the OP lists as errands for a man, there is a proper professional she can call and have it taken care of (eg pest control).
I can cook or buy my own meals, do my own laundry and clean my own house or hire a cleaning person if I am too busy to do them myself. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 1:03:16 PM | This is a really great time for women, regardless of who put us here. We have more opportunities today than we've ever had in the past. Now that we can do what we want, we need to be fair about that.
Women who work, make money, own property and still expect a man to pay for everything are just double dipping, and sort of give all women a bad name. Personally I don't like that stuff. Either you are old fashioned or you're not. Pick a side and stay with it.
Either stay home, and don't work and clean and all that when someone supports you or get a job and take care of your own stuff. You can't have it both ways. Well let me correct that - women CAN, but shouldn't. A lot do it because they can.
Chivalry was part of a different age, but doesn't have to be dead or turn into a bad thing. First of all, different people date by different codes, so find someone who's a fit for you when it comes to the rules. Don't bash those who don't live life your way, just realize they live by a different upbringing or era. Secondly, we should ALL be courteous to each other regardless of gender with holding doors, and the like. Forget chivalry, we need to mutually respect each other as human beings.
Men and women will eventually learn to go with the flow and date according to what makes them comfortable and what their partner appreciates. Naturally the older generation of men are more chivalrous, and the older generation of women are more open to it. I can be independent and do all my own stuff, but appreciate someone who offers to do it for me or help. As long as I don't walk around announcing that I expect men to do certain stuff because am a woman I think all is well. By the same token, men should realize what kind of woman fits them best, and go with the flow of what cues she sends out.
I think the roles are confused and frustrating right now, but it will all settle into a newer, better more balanced place. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 1:12:18 PM |
OP: The men seem to have had their "role" as protector taken away and they don't know how to communicate with us anymore.
Take my role, please!
Sure, we know how to communicate just fine. But it seems that many women don't have ears to hear correctly, or don't really want men 'communicating' with them. As Stephanie Herman put it: "The double standard regarding women's use of male slurs and put-downs is repugnant not for the jibes allowed women, but for the simultaneous censorship forced upon men." So we're back to the traditional sit-com scene of the guys saying in exasperation "women, make up your minds already!". | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 1:33:23 PM | I think the roles are confused and frustrating right now, but it will all settle into a newer, better more balanced place.
I know what my role is and that does not mean I have to be copycated by other men or me copycat others. So what is wrong with pluralism and absence of norms so that each person, man or woman, can be what he/she wants to be, and not adapt to fashion/mass media/social and other "norms"/molds?
Makes dating a bit more pluralistic, but hey there are consumers who do not like variety in choice because it gives them a headache!!! As a free market liberal, I am all for this state of "no norms"! Live and let live! There are planty of fish so that one can find matches. They just have to try harder and look wider. Right?
(maybe, to do so, they may have to been willing to "go global" in their search for a match, but hey, it is not the time to be local in consumer or business or work searches either, lol lol lol - everything is connected, that is why they call it "globalization"). | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 2:13:40 PM |
they may have to been willing to "go global" in their search for a match, but hey, it is not the time to be local in consumer or business or work searches either, lol lol lol - everything is connected, that is why they call it "globalization"
Ah, yes, the mail-order Russian bride is just all part of "globalization"!  | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 2:22:03 PM | Ah, yes, the mail-order Russian bride is just all part of "globalization"!
Since the US (and to some extent the UK) "invented" globalization, one would expect that mention of globalization in dating and relationships and global free spaces for living not just products and capital would not lead the conversation to the same old "stereo" as the one quoted above. Especially since the American dream is migrating East and it is Americans who will start migrating west and east in search of descent jobs, among other things!
Hence: Touche, cher ami/amigo!
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| Who put everyone where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 2:30:34 PM | Generalizations are always wrong.
they don't know how to communicate with us anymore.
I don't know that we ever knew how to communicate with you, OPie. Like, for instance, I never thought of jar and door opening as communicative. That's a new one on me.
And another new one: however successfully communicative you may be, I can't, hard as I try, find in your post even a whisper of the retro pleasures you are prepared to serve up to your man in your ole timey connubial paradise.
For instance, you'll give up your bank accounts, credit rating, and any real property feminism has tricked you into owning, yes? You will sex your man any way he wants any time he wants it, yes? You'll agree with him in most things, and ignore the other things, yes? You'll stay home all day every day (except dinner out on your birthday, of course, if you've been good) and make his home his tidy, tidy castle, yes? You will fetch his slippers and his every single beer, make and serve a buffet of snacks to his football buddies, and always, always, always have your face on and your hair done the way he likes it, yes? You will take your beatings humbly and try to do better, yes? You will never cry rape - no matter what - and, in fact, never say anything but praise and worshipful adoration about him, yes? You will obey, yes?
Well, OK then. I'll open your door. Get me a beer.
Cheers!
Vulf  | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 3:22:21 PM | To who it may concern:
I feel that it is a mans job to open a door for a lady and to have a loving, lasting friendship that leads to a lasting realtionship also. I am a single 35yo male and i love it when a woman is in control of herself, meaning she has alot of confidince in herself, i find that very sexy.
U can argue with me if u want but thats how i feel.
Thank you for listening.
Eric Carhart Jr. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 3:49:38 PM | Women's roles in society and women's roles in relationships aren't the same. Or I should say don't have to be.
As society has evolved there are men as well who have worked for women's equality in society. All that's been done is open up opportunities, women still have to do their part to get to whatever place in life they want to be.
As far as your role with your romantic partner, that's up to the two of you to define. If you want a spider-killer, can-opener, gun-toter, then it's up to you to make that clear up front. Then it's up to the man to decide whether that's a role he can fulfill or not. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/13/2007 4:40:55 PM | | "Women want the best of both worlds"...So do men..They want a whore in the bedroom who wears a size 6, always looks 25, makes tons of money, but still cooks like mom , cleans like mom , raises children full time, and is submissive and defers to him except when hes not around and things need to get done | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 12:16:20 AM |
"Women want the best of both worlds"...So do men..They want a whore in the bedroom who wears a size 6, always looks 25, makes tons of money, but still cooks like mom , cleans like mom , raises children full time, and is submissive and defers to him except when hes not around and things need to get done
That's right, by God; and we're tired of all the slacking, lol... | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 12:23:55 AM | They want a whore in the bedroom who wears a size 6, always looks 25, makes tons of money, but still cooks like mom , cleans like mom , raises children full time, and is submissive and defers to him except when hes not around and things need to get done
What's so unrealistic about that? Women can better act/adapt to different conditions/situations and they sure know how to multi-multi-task (lol), so the above "tasks' profile" is feasible for many women!
But I personally prefer "lazy" women cause I am a lazy guy and I want woman who is my equal. lol lol lol And I hate multi-tasking, makes me dizzy, especially when she does it. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 12:26:14 AM |
To say women put women where we are today is totally wrong. Our society and culture has evolved in such a way that women have had to assume the role of provider and breadwinner and protector of the family in many situations, like it or not. Families headed by a single mother are rising. So women have learned to survive without a man & have learned to be more independent. Not necessarily a bad thing. Personally, I'd rather see women be able to take care of themselves, than be dependent on some fool, just out of fear or lack of any skill. The key is to find a happy medium for the individuals involved in a particular relationship, like any issue in any relationhip.
You if depend on The State, you are not truly independent.
What's intriguing is that a multitude of single mothers still yearn for surrogate fathers, despite what you have written above. Make a choice, and live with the consequences.
Isn't that what we tell men?
Women who work, make money, own property and still expect a man to pay for everything are just double dipping, and sort of give all women a bad name. Personally I don't like that stuff. Either you are old fashioned or you're not. Pick a side and stay with it.
I do agree, but those who try to take advantage (and even exploit) both are quite large in number. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 5:34:27 AM | "You if you depend on the state , you are not truly independent"
Neither is a man who relies on his wife to stay at home full time to raise children..He depends on her doing this so he can have a family and work full time...Both......None of us in relationships are "truly independent"....Thats a myth perpetuated by the PC macho culture (and recently politics) that says people have to be isolated entities onto themselves in order to be "successful"....Which is BS...We all rely on some kind of support from others to get what we need and want in this world....We dont do it alone...."Make a choice and live with the consequences"....Single mothers didnt plan on being single...If the man isnt working with her as a partner or has addiction problems or domestic violence problems, is that really her fault for not being able to have a crystal ball and fortell the future?..The same argument could be said for men who pick unstable, but physically beautiful drama queens early in life who wear them out and use them brutally for their money and act passive agressive.....I see alot of 40 something men here speaking of exwives who were exackly like that.....Make a choice and live with that consequence...It goes both ways | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 5:57:18 AM | Wow OP you look great. I hope when I get to 47 I can still look as sexy as you do in your pics.
I disagree:
We are redefining our roles each and every one of us, male and female alike. No I don't need a man for financial security, or to fight my battles, or even to open my jam jar. In short, I don't need a man in my life at all; however, I think more importantly, I want a man in my life. If a man needs to assuage his ego by having a simpering little waif by his side then he is not the man for me. I think men need to accept that we don't need them any more; we want them. period end of story. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 5:59:16 AM | | Im neew to the forums and this site, but find them interesting! Yes I do think women have put you where you are today. I think the liberation movement. Im not trying to offend anyone, so dont take it that way. I just think that the reality is that the family unit struggles to function these days. Lifes demands and our desires dont fit with what we would like and the traditional role of a man being a father and a women being a mother. just one example for now that I see is women working. If women didnt work, or if men didnt work to be fair there would be zero unemployment by the workforce being cut in half. there would be great competition to find a employee, meaning full time with benifits, higher wages etc. I know its not that simple really but just some insight that I find interesting. Im not anti women at all, I love women! I also love families and thier importance to raising great children! We need to take the focus off from men and women and look at families. After its all said and done, is there anything more important and lasting you are going to do with your life. I think we all think the current way sucks or we wouldnt be on here! LOL | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 6:08:37 AM |
Women want the best of both worlds. They want the gains realized through the feminist movement/struggle, and the chivalry/gallantry of the by gone eras. They want their cake, they want to eat it, and they want the man to bake it, serve them , and clean up the dishes.
I couldn't have said it any better. Everything these days (especially our crazy judicial system) has been geared toward making life easier for women. Unfortunately in the process the fact that male/female relationships take a lot of work has been lost. It's just easier to toss in the towel, hack off the offending part and start over rather than face the fact that people and relationships change and need periodic adjustments and repairs. In most instances simple communication is the key in making that difference and may take a little time to come to fruition. Relationships don't simply change overnight and usually repairs don't either.
Then, this BS about money....
You can bet the LAST thing anyone I date will know is what's in the bank until I chose to let them know.... If that's the number one criteria in which you choose your mate then I choose to remain single.
BTW I open and hold doors for everyone, it's just common courtesy I learned as a child. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 6:25:24 AM | " I don't need a man in my life at all;"
" I don't need a man in my life at all;"
" I don't need a man in my life at all;"
The real problem is - " I don't need a man in my life at all;"
Is first and formost on many gal's mind these days. They wear it like some kind of badge of honor. They shove it in the guy's face ...
over and over and over and over.
I personally don't even listen to the "but I want one" crap - I am blinded by the continued reminding of ...
" I don't need a man in my life at all;"
" I don't need a man in my life at all;"
" I don't need a man in my life at all;"
I for one ... just tune her out - consider her too tainted by all of the "independent woman" babble and get the hell away from her.
The "I DON'T NEED A MAN" (in large upper case bold font) ... but kind of want one (in lower case small plain font) - is an up front warning "so you better watch it mister". We are being told up front we better watch our ps and qs. I am not one for threats. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 7:20:41 AM | I still find it odd that men aren't relieved that a woman says I don't need a man...it frees up their free time, money and whatever else we used to need from them (and they complained about). To us needing means tangible support...house, car, money, etc. You really want us to need that stuff from you? Seems like it.
Wanting is better - we choose that, we WANT you - that's about you. Needing isn't a choice...if we're there because you have something we need, then it's not about you, it's about us. How does that hit such a nerve? | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 7:39:12 AM | I really really hate how weak other women make me feel when I say I need a man. Do you know how many times my father has told me I need a man? He loves me dearly, i'm a daddy's girl...yes at age 42 he is taking care of me when it comes to the man things (for the most part) but he's ready for me to get my own man for the "man things" Maybe I'm spoiled, so? I deserve it and in turn spoil by doing the woman things! Yes I said it, THE MAN THINGS. A list of what I consider man things you ask? Good Question, this is MY definition of man things in MY book.
Got a flat recently, can I change it? Yes I have that knowledge and ability but in my book that's a MAN thing.
Plumbing problem. I do not have the knowledge to fix it, I could have called someone to come out. I did I called my father, he is the man in my life right now.
Washer needed a new belt. (see above)
Broken doorknob. (see above)
New windshield wipers on my car (see above)
etc. etc. etc.
If he can't fix it he'll tell me who to call or arrange for someone to fix it for me. I am far from helpless but certain things I like "taken care of" just as MOST men like certain things taken care of by a woman.
Hell my ex probably didn't even know what size underwear he wore. I had to teach the man to write a check after our divorce and where to pay the power bill.
I NEED a man and not ashamed to admit it. I'm secure in myself and MY role in this life but i'm not ashamed to say I NEED A MAN.
Get over yourselves and the fear of looking weak, secure women know better. We can run a household, work a full-time job, raise children and satisfy our men. It's a give and take, why not let them give? As long as your holding your end of the bargain and give what they need and want, nothing wrong with taking in turn.
The opinions expressed in this post are MINE. I have the right to express them on a public forum, you have the right not to read them or agree with them.
C~ | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 7:42:36 AM | I've finally figured out just lately that I can open any jar with a screwdriver.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
I have to ponder on the deeper meaning of that, maybe we are complicating the relationship between men and women way too much. | |
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| Women put women where we are today!?
Posted: 6/14/2007 7:44:52 AM | Thanks uglybetty for rephrasing that for me you summed it up nicely.
As for Ron9 OMG take a chill pill. I was stating I'm not the needy type. You know the clingy type guys are always complaining about. | |
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