| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 11:46:32 AM | I have known this secret since I bought a few Rodale books back in the early 80's. It is one especially valuable to diabetics.
DIASTATIC MALT
Used by professional bakers of Europe, either made as below or
from barley grain, which is difficult to find here in the required
unhulled, organic condition. Some health food stores can get it.The enzyme
action is the same for each grain.
Can be used instead of sugar, honey or molasses in yeast breads.
Is rich is enzymes and vitamins. The action of the enzymes with
the yeast and flour improves the flavor and appearance of the bread
along with the nutritional value. It gives bread a finer texture
and keeps it fresh longer.
To make:
Sprout 1 cup whole wheat berries by placing in a glass jar and
soaking overnight, then rinsing and draining often.
In a couple of days you will see little shoots. When these are
the same length as the grain, rinse and this time drain very well.
Spread them out evenly on two cookie sheets and dry by placing in
150 degree oven for 8 hours or in a dehydrator for the recommended
time, depending on the unit. Grind the dried grain into a very fine
powder. This makes enough for about 150 loaves.
For each three-four loaves(depending on their size) of bread, use
one tablespoon of malt instead of the sugar/honey/molasses or to
replace most/some of it. Too much will make the bread too sweet,
dark and sticky. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 12:01:29 PM | I worked in a bakery when I was a teenager and was taught how to make bread from scratch (I had a hard time finding scratch in grocery stores). I was told the secret was in the kneading of the bread. I use the yeast that comes in packets and it seems it doesn't matter what recipe I use the bread always seems to come out just fine.
I am very meticulous about the kneading. Don't punch it around. Just methodically knead it. Push down with both hands and fingers, fold it over and do it agian and fold it over and keep on repeating until you are sure it has ben thoroughly kneaded. I occasionally, about every four or five folds, turn the dough 90 degrees and keep on with the same process.Then put it in a pan, (lightly greased or with PAM) cover it with a tea-towel type of cloth and leave it on the counter to rise. Make sure it is out of any draft. When it looks properly risen (you can tell by the shape of the cloth) repeat the whole processs and put it in the oven. Voila. It should work. If you follow the recipe carefully, and use packet yeast, it should work fine. Remember, if you use a bread recipe and follow it carefully you get bread, not a cake. Good luck. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 12:39:55 PM | A lot of sound advice here, and yes, the Beard book is truly great. But I've got one more, a technique (more than a recipe) the New York Times published recently, complete with a little video. I was the baker in my communal experiment back in the day (dog! I'm old!), and since then have tried all kinds of methods.
This one is revolutionary. NO kneading! NO proofing! And the widest margin of error I've ever found in baking. I kid you not, I tried to break this method, but, so long as I stuck to a few idiot-proof principles, I got chewy crust and a tender yet sturdy crumb. Truly unbelievable and EASY. I say it's revolutionary because, with this method, there is no more need for anyone to buy bread again.
Recipe: No-Knead Bread
Published: November 8, 2006 in The New York Times
Adapted from Jim Lahey, Sullivan Street Bakery
Time: About 1½ hours plus 14 to 20 hours' rising
3 cups all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
¼ teaspoon instant yeast
1¼ teaspoons salt
Cornmeal or wheat bran as needed.
1. In a large bowl combine flour, yeast and salt. Add 1 5/8 cups
water, and stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover
bowl with plastic wrap. Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably
about 18, at warm room temperature, about 70 degrees.
2. Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly
flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little
more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely
with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.
3. Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface
or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball.
Generously coat a cotton towel (not terry cloth) with flour, wheat
bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down on towel and dust with more
flour, bran or cornmeal. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise
for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in
size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.
4. At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450
degrees. Put a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel,
Pyrex or ceramic) in oven as it heats. When dough is ready, carefully
remove pot from oven. Slide your hand under towel and turn dough over
into pot, seam side up; it may look like a mess, but that is O.K.
Shake pan once or twice if dough is unevenly distributed; it will
straighten out as it bakes. Cover with lid and bake 30 minutes, then
remove lid and bake another 15 to 30 minutes, until loaf is
beautifully browned. Cool on a rack.
Yield: One 1½-pound loaf.
I find three things matter: the wet/dry proportions; the overnight rise; and pre-heating the pot.
Oh, and you read it right - NO greasing the pot. The high heat sears the loaf at once, and it doesn't stick a bit.
I know, I know. I didn't believe it either, but just try it. Even your little brother can make excellent bread and not miss his turn on the Wii.
Cheers!
Vulf  | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 3:38:16 PM | vulf...you aint old yet...only 43...i am old...i consider bread making to be..."therapy"... | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 3:56:04 PM | | I am with Blueslady. I use my bread machine for all breads but always use the dough cycle. That way all the mess is contained and when the breadmaker buzzes, just shape it into a loaf and let rise again and bake in oven. Turns out good every time. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 7:59:20 PM | So what did I learn from this whole trying to tackle the bread making thing yet again...well like someone has already mentioned about bread being therapuetic...it went down like this...
You won't believe it...I MADE BREAD! (almost freakin' perfect!) I guess in a way I had forgotten one of the most important reasons that I like to cook. After working all day, it gives me time to decompress and think. Not necessarily about things that happened that day, but time to think and reflect. My breadmaking was kind of like my life.
I got some bad advice years ago that I was over kneading the bread and that is why it came out like a brick, so since I assumed since this person had made plenty of dough for pizzas that they were correct and I went and tried to adjust everything else over the years and kind of struggled with it on my own. Finally, I figured it couldn't hurt to ask...again...this time from a different source, so I posted a question in this online cooking forum and it was recommended that I throw everything out the window that I thought I knew about bread and get this book called Beard on Bread by James Beard. The book arrived in the mail and I read the chapter on the basics. I'll be damned if the problem was I wasn't kneading the bread long enough...at least according to the book. The other thing was that I wasn't proofing the yeast long enough. If something tells me stick yeast in water at a certain temperature, and wait 3 minutes, that's exactly what I would do. Get a thermometer, make sure the water was exactly at the right temperature and wait exactly three minutes and start tossing everything else in. Well there is this thing that happens where at AROUND three minutes, the mixture will bloom. I hadn't seen that before, it was really kind of cool to watch it exploding all over the water like it did.
So I did what the book said to do, it was a little unsettling at first. It would be a lie if I said I wasn't in the back of my head wondering if I shouldn't still be doing it "my way". The dough was gooey, my dough is never gooey. However, the farther along it went, the sticky blob turned into this wonderful silken ball...just like the book said.
I always had done everything else right and I didn't need the book's advice on the rest of the process. The result was this wonderfully crusty parmesan and Italian spice infused white bread. I dang near ate the whole loaf. I can't wait to do my bruschetta this weekend. Normally according to purists, that is supposed to be bread with olive oil and rubbed with garlic period. Not mine, I have several varieites. I'm thinking my version where I soak fresh tomatoes in good balsamic vinegar. Put the oil on the bread, add the garlic, then the tomatoes and top with some fresh basil and a little bit of a blend of good italian cheese. Wait, I think I just made pizza. Anyhow, the point that I am trying to make through this long drawn out story is that with a little bit of re-wording and exchanging the words "my life" for "bread" there is a similarity.
Sometimes things take their own sweet time to bloom and all looking for the results at exactly the given moment or "else" doesn't always work. Ssometimes you get bad advice, sometimes instead of struggling away quietly, it pays to reach out and ask.
So I figure in another couple months I should have the bread thing down. The important part is that I remember what the bread struggle reminded me about life.
Sounds pretty corny eh?
Now all I have to do is learn how to slice fugu properly at home. Any volunteers out there to help me eat my attempts at perfection at fugu? HEHEHE. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 8:37:31 PM | I was wondering what had happened in your quest to make that perfect loaf of bread.
Your posting just brought back memories of my grandmother who would make bread pretty much every day while. When we arrived home from school there it was.. hot and pipping... yum.... my fav was dipping it in molasses.
My grandmother always took her time... kneeded the dough until she felt it to be just right and let it rise to the point where it looked ready to go into the oven... the timing was never the same... she did it using her years of baking as her guide.. and her heart. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 8:55:05 PM | This is my own receipe..this also makes about 9-13 loaves depending if you want some buns.
you can always cut the receipe in half.
1 cup potatoe water and 1 whole potatoe blended
3 cups lukewarm water
1 egg
1 tblsp. vinegar
3 tblsp. oil
1/4 cup sugar
1/2 tsp. salt
1-2 tbls. sour cream (optional)
mix above with 4 cups of flour, then add your yeast.
1 tblsp. yeast
1 tsp. sugar
1/2 cup luke warm water
let rise until double keep away from draft
add 7 -8 cups of flour to make a soft but not sticky dough.. knead until dough does not stick to your hands..The more you work your dough the better it will be... I usually knead it with both hands 50 times.. flip and knead another 50 times. grease your bowl and put dough in it. let rise till double in size.. punch down. let rise... make into loaves or buns..let rise till double in size ... I pad the counter with towels and cover with teatowels and towels.. pre heat oven bake at 400-420 depends on oven for 20-25 mins. for buns and longer for bread.. when bread is nice and brown it is done... i also turn pans around in the oven about half way thru
when done i spread butter or marg. on top and flip on brown paper to cool..
When I put my bread to rise.. I wrap it in teatowels, towels and blankets and put pillows around to keep it warm.. that is the best way for it to rise...Never fails....
I faithfully baked bread and buns every week.. I raised 5 children and they just loved home bvaked bread
GOOD LUCK...
If you have any questions on this please give me a call/// | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 8:57:17 PM | | sorry should have told you that this bread is like and tastes like grandma's bread ... very light | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/14/2007 9:41:24 PM | Slysin,
Yeah the whole smell thing coming home. My Mom used to use her pressure cooker even after the advent of the microwave because it can take a cheap cut of meat and make it soooo good. I now have that pressure cooker along with two others.
Coming home from school, when it was spring or fall, I could tell from a block away what we were having for dinner and my friends would get so jealous.
My favorite trick when I was back in the forzen wasteland above the Mason Dixon was to wait for a cold winter day, where there was very little humidity and any moisture would hang in the air.
Then I'd use my pressure cooker and instead of letting it simmer down or pouring water over it in the sink, I'd open the back door, open the pressure cooker and announce to the world what we were eating via the steam being vented into the open air. More than once, people walking their dogs would ask if they could come in for dinner.
Certain smells. Bread baking, (being part Polish) a good cabbage dish, a properly searing steak, cinnamon rolls, fresh roasted and then fresh brewed coffee... yum. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/15/2007 12:22:38 AM | I was wondering the same thing, if we helped you and your bread has turned out, onesimpleneed. Good to know you figured out it was the kneading that was an issue. The balsamic in tomatoes sounds delish. Also remember this, if bread ever fights you when you are trying to work with it, cover it and walk away for ten minutes and give the dough time to rest. It will be more compliant when you return. This makes a HUGE difference when shaping custom shapes or braids or even forming a pizza and it keeps "snapping back".
Many thanks to call me the breeze for the explanation about malting grains and barley. I had long wondered about that, what exactly the malting process was for the grains. I know it facilitates an enzymatic change that allows for conversion of starch into sugar for the primary fermentation of beer but never knew exactly how the grain got that way. I am definitely going to try that with some of my barley. I find the malted barley flavor to be one of the best!
I'll bet it'd work good in making old fashioned malts, too. I used to have a favorite malting powder I would use for that but it disappeared and the main brand name one these days is more sugar than flavor. So it will be a nice addition to my culinary knowledge to be able to produce that exact flavor on my own. Thanks again! | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/15/2007 2:59:23 PM | I could never make bread that could be shown to anyone or taken anywhere but the trash can, then I found this site.
http://www.angelfire.com/ab/bethsbread/sdPotatoFlakeStarter.html
You must at least try it. I think you will be very happy you did. I make the tallest Cinnamon Rolls ever with this and I use the starter #1 , feed it 4 days apart at least 4 times before I use it. It is well worth the wait. Also for the rolls add brown sugar along with reg. sugar and cinnamon. The topping is a large part of this recipe. Just look up any cream cheese frosting or vanilla cream cheese frosting recipe.
Hope you like it.  | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/15/2007 4:46:11 PM | Thanks for the link Morning,
I can't wait to try it, I hate that little pudgy white b*stard telling me how good Pilsbury cinnamon rolls are. Ick! | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/15/2007 9:12:08 PM | Bread machines rule!
I use mine twice a week (at the least). I have used and liked the Breadman units in the past, but was given a Sunbeam unit (as one can find at Wal-Mart) and have been pleasantly surprised by the 2# loaves it makes.
I use a recipe cribbed from a Breadman 900's booklet for wheat bread with gluten.
Whole Wheat bread w/ Gluten
1.5 cups water-100 degrees'ish.
3 TB Molasses-whatever kind I can get
3TB Veggie Oil-canola, soy, etc.: your choice, but it needs to be liquid at room temp. (i.e. no Crisco or Lard)
0.5 tsp salt-more or less to taste
4 cups Whole wheat flour (I use the cheap stuff-it's a "non bread" flour)-a local grocer sells this for 99 cents for a 5# bag, ground somewhere in North Dakota.
3 TB Wheat Gluten (makes the bread "springier"--you can leave this out if you choose to do so).
2.5 tsp. yeast-I buy the cheap stuff by the 2# brick-my present package is "Red Star"
Makes a 2#'ish loaf for about 60 cents.
I set the Sunbeam on the Whole Wheat cycle, medium crust, and 2# loaf. 3 00 later, I have a great loaf of bread to eat. Depending on your machine, this recipe can make a decent sandwich loaf--on some machines, this makes a dense loaf (ala "pumpernickle-types" of bread)-the 900 & the present Sunbeam make a "sandwich" loaf with this recipe.
Fresh bread is both easy to make well and makes a place smell great! It's even easier when one has a bread machine. Cheap ones can be had for about $35 at local Wal-Marts (for the 2# Sunbeam machines, which also have a window on them so you can see how your loaf is doing without opening the lid).
I said it earlier & will say it again-Bread Machines Rule!!! javascript:smilie('')
javascript:smilie('') | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/16/2007 3:14:20 PM | "I got some bad advice years ago that I was over kneading the bread and that is why it came out like a brick, so since I assumed since this person had made plenty of dough for pizzas that they were correct and I went and tried to adjust everything else over the years and kind of struggled with it on my own. "
i dont know who gave you that little tidbit of info onesimpleneed but i found just the opposite to be true..i made a few "bricks" when i first started making bread...the main reason they turn out heavy is cuz there is too much flour...the advice i was given...by a 73 yr old lady...retired chef was...you cant overknead white bread...i usually knead my dough for 12-15 minutes by hand and its good...if you dont knead it long enough...the gluten doesnt get worked enough supposedly and your bread...while it may not be like a brick...will be too crumbly...
random entry...you been making bread since you were 9 yrs old??? | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/16/2007 3:51:53 PM | fistncuffs,
What about non-white bread? Reason I ask, I have this really killer recipe for a pumpernickel that is the absolute closest thing I have ever seen even coming close to the loaves we used to get at the Polish bakery in my Grandmother's neighborhood but because there were so many ingredients I always throw it into a bread maker (this was before I figured out the kneading thing) to get it right.
If I am going to try and do it by hand, I'm wondering what the rule was for non white bread.
Oh man, we came home tonight, walked in and my buddy said "What is that God awful smell?". I smiled and said, "The sourdough starter is ALMOST...almost ready". Fresh sourdough bread for Sunday brunch. Can't wait. If I was only allowed one bread that would be it.
I've got to start digging through my books though because I know I am not imagining when I say, somewhere I do have a recipe for Pumpernickel Sourdough, but right now I've got to think about working on my Guinness Ice Cream (and no, that is NOT a typo)...
Cheers | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/16/2007 3:59:25 PM | | Just to comment, my youngest son has been able to mix up a dozen loaves since he was 10, and had I gone to work a year earlier than I did he would have started sooner. Once when he had a guest and made sandwiches for their lunch he told his pal he had made the bread himself. His friend came to me shaking his head and said, "My mom has never even let me make toast and he is making bread. It's amazing. " Over the years I often got a lot of resistance and anger but my kids all left home with incredible kitchen skills and self confidence that saves them a fortune and earned me a lifetime of gratitude. The middle child has taught his girlfriend the skills I passed on and on their day off work they usually cook and bake all day. My oldest child is always sought after to help with dinner parties and is the first guest on the lists for pot luck dinners. She was able to make a big meal from scratch by age 12. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/16/2007 4:06:55 PM | | beard on bread is the best book for making bread I've found . i proof my yeast with honey rather than sugar. i knead the heck out of them. and wait til they rise double sometimes when its cold up here in neb. it takes longer . i read the article from the NY times im glad someone else has tried it . i was wondering.... if you find the recipe for sour dough rye please post it . I've been trying to find it myself. wheat gluten sometimes helps in a recipe . great thread , im glad i found it . | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/16/2007 4:09:21 PM | Sourdough Rye
2 tbsp. active dry yeast
3 1/4 c. warm water
6 c. all purpose flour, approximately
2 c. rye flour
2 tsp. salt
1 tbsp. caraway seeds
1 1/2tbsp. poppy seeds
2 tbsp. melted butter
3 tbsp. granulated sugar
cornmeal
1 egg, slightly beaten with 1 tbsp. water
Procedure
*Four days ahead of breadmaking, prepare the starter:
Combine: 1 tbsp. yeast, 2 c. warm water, and 2 c. all
purpose flour in a bowl or container. Cover tightly and
let stand at room temperature for 2 days> Refrigerate for
at least another day.(see note at end)
The day before preparing the dough, combine 1 c. starter,
the rye flour and a c. of warm water in a bowl. Cover with
plastic wrap and let stand at room temperature overnight.
The next day stir down the dough and add the other tablespoon
of yeast, which has been dissolved in 1/4 c. water, salt,
seeds, butter and sugar. Then add up to 4 cups all purpose
flour, a cup at a time to make a stiff but workable dough.
Knead for 10 - 12 minutes and then shape into a ball. Place
in a buttered bowl, turning to coat the dough.Cover and let
rise in a warm place, about 2 hours.
Punch down and divide the dough in half. Shape into two round
loaves and place on two buttered baking pans which have been
sprinkled liberally with cornmeal.Cover and let rise until
doubled in bulk, about an hour. Brush with the egg wash and
bake in a preheated 375 degree oven for 30 minutes or until the
loaves sound hollow when rapped with the knuckles.Cool, covered
with towels, or butter the top crust. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/17/2007 12:28:10 AM | FistnCuffs: Yeah, want to fight about it? :-) Read the thread about "How did you start cooking?". I learn to read measuring cup fractions and recipes prior to any real reading. My mother believed in trusting us so we played with real dough instead of play doh. That's also how I won awards at the county fair by the age of 12. This was in an open aged catagory, so I won first prize at that age against women who had cooked/baked all their lives. No favoritism, the names were all covered for fairness.
By then I could read and read the hint about cutting strips of tin foil and cover the crust edges and pull them off the last few minutes of cooking. This assures very even browning even in a regular oven. | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/17/2007 10:22:31 AM | New question...
I know you can buy frozen bread and make bread. My new question is can you make bread and freeze it yourself? Anyone doing this? Any suggestions? Thanks! | |
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| Help! I can't make bread!
Posted: 3/17/2007 11:16:26 AM | need...i dont really know the "rules" for kneading bread that use multigrain or whole wheat etc...i do make a pretty good multi-grain bread using red river cereal and molasses tho...i just knead it till it "feels" right...
the recipe i use is a basic white bread recipe with the following mods...
use any 2 loaf recipe for white bread but instead of white sugar i substitute brown...also add about 1/3 cup of cooking molasses...whe i add flour to my liquid ingredients the first thing i do is add 1 cup whole wheat flour and 1 cup red river cereal...(any 8 or 12 grain combo cereal will do tho)...
then i finish making it as if i was making white bread...i dont really do anything differently except for the mods i said before...
it is possible to make bread and shape it etc then freeze it to take out for baking when needed...personally i've never had any luck with it tho...i'm not sure at what stage you should freeze the loaves...i guess after you punch then down and shape the loaves would be the logical time to do it...maybe random entry could fill in the blanks...i know that yeast cant be killed by freezing...it just goes dormant or hibernates from the cold...
i know one thing for sure tho...igotta stop eating bread when i take it outta the oven...i went to put my jeans on this morning and almost couldnt get the top button done up...lol...oink oink | |
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