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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/11/2007 4:21:10 PM | "If you've been snubbed because of your race, it's the other person's loss -- not yours. Keep your head up and keep fishing!"
Is THAT why he keeps making this crazy crap up? I mean I read the definition he posted, and yeah, saw that he made it out to be what it was not (the bit about trying to say that people think another race is inferior or superior just because they find them more or less attractive, funny, but false).
Just wondered why he would rant on FOREVER on this tangent trying to make problems where they aren't. Just didn't understand that for the life of me. Guess you answered my question. | |
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*Jay
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Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 377 | |
| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/11/2007 9:57:34 PM | | what the hell are some of you guys talking about? the OP asked a pretty straight forward question in his message.... DO YOU DATE BLACK GUYS....the woman said "ewwwww no"....meaning she thinks ALL black guys are disgusting and no she would not date them.....sounds pretty damn racist to me | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/11/2007 10:29:52 PM | | I am Native American/Canadian whatever the term used but we are called everyhing in Canada and people here r very racist but thats just non Native people and not all in general. Some people who helped me in my drug addled life and to sober me up were non Native people and i appreciate but if someone is an outright racist i attack them verbally as well. Why take that shit! It's rude and hurtful! Why put up with it they don't pay your way what right do they have to say something to you about racism. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 1:42:24 AM | "what the hell are some of you guys talking about? the OP asked a pretty straight forward question in his message.... DO YOU DATE BLACK GUYS....the woman said "ewwwww no"....meaning she thinks ALL black guys are disgusting and no she would not date them.....sounds pretty damn racist to me"
Why is that your first assumption? Why can't you see that it is possible to not be interested in dating someone without being racist? How do you KNOW she meant ALL and that she even implied they were DISGUSTING? Why do you think you can KNOW what she meant at all?
I am getting the feeling that certain people DO like to look for racism where it doesn't exist. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 2:55:50 AM | You know, this question always reminds me of the fact that we live in a victim culture.
I work with people from China, Pakistan, former Yugoslavia , Greeks , Natives, and people who just call themselves Canadian. I'm a Jew. I work with Muslims and of course, Christians. We're every colour there is.
And we say the most outrageous and "racist" crap on Earth to each other. Seriously. I won't repeat any of it here because somebody WILL get offended. And yet we all party together, hang around, lend each other stuff, help each other out, and just plain treat each other like what we actually are : friends. We argue and fight as well and when everything is said and done, nobody feels like they've been treated like an "inferior". They just think the other guy is an ***hole until the handshakes and back slaps make their way back around.
But you know who the true racists are ? The people who are always either careful to not offend or always looking to take offense. For you people IT PERMEATES YOUR EVERY THOUGHT. You talk to a white guy or a black woman or native kid and you're either afraid to offend or you're looking for a reason to be offended. You'll NEVER have a genuine relationship with somebody of another race. You can't.
But I guarantee you'd call us the racists at my work if you judge by the way we've been taught to think about the subject of race relations. | |
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EC22
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Joined: 4/25/2007
Msg: 382 | |
| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 6:02:20 AM | Why is that your first assumption? Why can't you see that it is possible to not be interested in dating someone without being racist? How do you KNOW she meant ALL and that she even implied they were DISGUSTING? Why do you think you can KNOW what she meant at all?
Not necessary racist, but she definitely could have more tact and polite such as saying "I'm usually not attracted to black men" instead of "Eww No". | |
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pbmac3
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Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 383 | |
| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 8:24:39 AM | Jordan-
It appears that you have a serious axe to grind.
First off, here is my original post.....in full context:
4) I've seen profiles from women of color that say they will only date black men. I move on to the next profile. I've never once had the thought that the person was a racist.
5) I've seen profiles from white women that say they want a black man. Again, I move on to the next profile. Never once thought the person was racist, just a personal preference.
somehow, you managed to turn that quote into:
pbmac3: "Never once thought the person was racist, just a personal preference."
Jordan: racism is NOT a personal preference.
People develop racist preferences through the teachings of their parents, their church/religion, movies, textbooks/schools, newspapers, etc.
What may seem to be a personal preference is an idea that has been planted in one's head by one's culture, which includes all the items in the preceding sentence and others.
I cannot believe that having a racial preference makes somebody racist (although it could). But you want to argue that a racial preference indeed equates to racism. Or does it only apply to a white having a preference for whites? (due to the teachings of their parents, etc)
How does your argument/reasoning fit in the case I mentioned originally, with regards to a white woman only dating black men? Would this be racism? or preference? or is she simply "enlightened"?
I have a friend (white) who is attracted to Asian women. His first wife was Japanese, his second wife was Indian. He has a preference for Asian women. Superior? Inferior? Neither, just what he prefers.
Get off your soapbox. Racism does exist. Nobody is arguing that fact. But you want to make the argument that a racial preference in regards to dating equates to racism, IN ALL CASES. Go back and look at the definition you provided.
OT- Jordan- I'd love to hear your take on yesterdays (7/11/07) ad in the USA Today regarding hate speech. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 4:52:45 PM | I told myself I wasn't going to post anymore in the racism threads, but are people actually reading what they write before they post it?
Isn't racism an exaggerated form of racial preference?
If so... how can racial preference NOT be racism. Someone explain that one for me, please... | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 5:34:59 PM | oh come on now. Racism is hate based and preference isn't.
Don't like it? Then grow a thicker skin.
It is the other persons preference and they are entitled to it.
The ones who look for racism will be able to find it ( or what they think is it) anywhere they look. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 7:19:57 PM | | Isn't "preference" also, in some way, hate based? At least "dislike-based", as people who only date certain races claim to dislike certain physical features about an ENTIRE race of people, even if some of those people don't share said physical features... | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 7:57:26 PM | no preference is not hate based. It is attraction based, and that attraction is not the same for everyone.
Remember there has to be a basic attraction or ANY relationship is not going to work.
After all EVERYONE has preferences. Even you. After all you have a preference for non smokers. Is that hate based? No it is your preference and it is your choice.
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 10:19:06 PM | uultramann
pbmac3
dreadstalker
I think there's some confusion here about the definition of "racism". I think what the common person sees as racism and what the law defines as racism are a bit different than what is being defined in academia. I'm not saying any is wrong, but it makes for a confusing conversation. As I mentioned in my previous post, some of the words that are actually used make some of us think of the extremist groups. I do agree with what Jordan had to say, but in the legal world it's not a useful definition (sue every person who isn't with someone of a different race?). So, then it depends on what is trying to be accomplished.
I think. I think the end goal is to remove decisions of any sort being race based. Sure, be or not be attracted to someone, but let it be because of something other than race. Granted, attraction being partially based on looks gets in the way of that some I think. Now, society has changed as a whole on what they find as attractive, but individuals don't necessarily (otherwise I'd never get a date). I wonder if we can even get rid of having attraction based on any physical feature at all? Right now...no, but if we work at it, who's to say that in 200 years that wouldn't be the case, because we started educated the young away from that now? Changing an entire society is a very long process, and very painful to a lot of people. We may not make it perfect, but we can make it better.
Some are going to seem like they are taking advantage of changes...movements forward or movements back of any color, sex, or whatever. That I see as an individual problem rather than a society problem. There's always going to be a few @ssholes. Who really wants the direction an entire society takes ruled by a few @ssholes?
I may be way off the mark here, and I shouldn't try thinking so late at night. This has been and continues to be researched and discussed by some very well educated people. In order to see what's being really said sometimes I think a person needs to not take comments personally and look at it objectively.
Stupid side note:
Granted, I found my objective approach gets me hate mail from all sides. The best comment I got on myspaz was someone accused me of wanting to f*ck all Hispanic guys (as in sex) after a discussion about the immigration laws (I was only talking in a legal sense when I wrote). My thought about that comment was .... Hey, if I manage to get ALL the Hispanic guys, I'd be willing to bet I get more s*x than all other chics this century on the planet. Ya know, in that light, it doesn't seem like a bad way to spend one's life.  | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 10:43:49 PM | You know what, racism sucks big time.
I don't get the whole deal either.
The thing is, we're all human.
Who cares where one comes from, what colour they are, and what religion they are, etc...
In my book it is hey, are you a nice person and kind?
It doesn't matter about anything else.
The world would be a better place if we just stopped the whole we are this group, we are that group thing.
We are humans, that is all that matters. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/12/2007 10:46:36 PM |
Isn't "preference" also, in some way, hate based? Can one "prefer" one thing, but still be ok with another instead of just hating it?
I'll give an example. I know when I'm just looking at pictures alone, I have a preference for men with long dark hair and goatees. I'm am currently dating a clean-shaven blond. Initially, in the looks area, he only got an "ok" from me. In that case, personality played a part in making him seem very physically attractive to me as well. But if you were to put up pictures of 12 men I don't know and told me to pick my preference based on what I see, it's going to be the guy with the long dark hair and goatee that gets my top vote. Doesn't mean I have a hatred for the others, otherwise, I wouldn't be with my current boyfriend.
Let's look at it another way. If a person can point to one person of each race that they'd be willing to date, does that null the racism? I can honestly say I've been hot at one time or another to at least one of every race (and more in a few cases). I think I've went out with every race by now as well. I still have a preference though and what I tend to lean towards. By that I mean there is one group where I am more likely to find more guys I'm more attracted to than another. Technically, on the academic definition, I am still racist because I'm showing an attraction preference still.
Could there possibly be degrees of racism? It's not like I'd support any of the extremist groups, nor would I base hiring on race, nor do I base who I talk to based on race, etc.
When it comes to relationships, in a way, people are making a decision on who they'd hand over their life to. That's a very hard decision to make. You can't walk up to a gal and say "For the good of the world as a whole, you will hand your body over to so and so." That's why I think some get so upset when guys get on us about what we like. It comes off as men trying to rule women's lives again.
I still think there's an environmental element involved here, because what we are going to be comfortable with and trust is what we already know and grew up with. That could be a multicultural or unicultural environment, positive and loving, or even abusive. I think being attracted to what we're used to is hardwired into us. That doesn't mean that it won't gradually change. By that I mean, a few think differently and go outside what they know or maybe they've had some exposure to it. People get exposed to that couple and therefore it becomes part of their environment, and now they or their kids might do that too, and so on. It will gradually grow and increase as it becomes part of people's natural environment. | |
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pbmac3
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Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 392 | |
| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/13/2007 4:36:59 AM |
The definition of being a racist is "To hold the belief that there are both inferior and superior groups of humans, and that physical characteristics are indicators of one's innate capacities, such as control of emotions, intelligence, and /or temperament."
If we accept the above definition as accurate, then in order to be racist, one has to believe that there are both inferior and superior groups of humans. Please explain how having a preference for who someone dates meets this criteria. Are there people who date/don't date based of this criteria? Of course! But to lump anyone who does not date outside their race as racist is absurd, in my opinion. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/13/2007 5:39:56 AM | I think where the definition of racism in regards to preference is the assumption that one is making an assumption that one will choose what they deem to be "superior". A few posts ago I used the chicken and roosters example. Bunch of roosters try to look impressive to get the chicken and the chicken chooses whom she deems best.
I guess I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate on both sides here. 1) I see where some people are getting their definitions are coming from and 2) I still think there's a biological and environmental element in our choice of mates that sociology is not going to be able to change. Based on the idea of having race involved in the dating preference pretty much makes the entire planet and all races racist. I haven't heard of or known a person who didn't find one more attractive than another no matter what the race, and I'm not talking in one just preferring their own. If I prefer the Asian/oriental look, then I've made a race decision.
It's pretty amazing this thread over what a chic that's not worth dating in the first place said to the guy in the first post. | |
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pbmac3
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Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 394 | |
| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/13/2007 6:29:19 AM |
I think where the definition of racism in regards to preference is the assumption that one is making an assumption that one will choose what they deem to be "superior". A few posts ago I used the chicken and roosters example. Bunch of roosters try to look impressive to get the chicken and the chicken chooses whom she deems best.
(insert your own c*ck joke here.....LOL )
If I prefer the Asian/oriental look, then I've made a race decision.
Agreed. But it is my belief that this does not necessarily make one a racist.
If a woman chooses not to have sex with men, does that make her a sexist? It could if her reasoning was "All men are scum, they are simply inferior to women". However, if her reasoning was "I'm simply not attracted to men" I would say that is a preference and go on about my business. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/13/2007 9:37:39 AM | EC22 – “Not necessary racist, but she definitely could have more tact and polite such as saying "I'm usually not attracted to black men" instead of "Eww No".”
That’s fair, but labeling her a racist for it sure wasn’t.
dreadstalker – “The ones who look for racism will be able to find it ( or what they think is it) anywhere they look.”
I actually think that those who seek it, exploit it, and exaggerate it, are the biggest problem, because they perpetuate the negative feelings and hostility, and even generate it where it did not previously exist.
uultramann – “Isn't "preference" also, in some way, hate based? At least "dislike-based"
Nope, that would just be an example of the exaggeration I was referring to.
whenyer_strange did a pretty good job of trying to explain the difference between people being or not being attracted to certain features (I prefer guys with a twinkle in their eye), and how it is NOT the same thing as racism. IMO, anyone who uses another’s preferences to label them a racist, IS the racist, and is also being completely unfair and unreasonable. Those are the people looking for problems where they don’t exist, and are inciting the hate and resentments. No one should be able to tell, or guilt, anyone into anything using the color of anyone’s skin. | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/13/2007 10:21:15 AM | man, i get called a racist against black people.
yep thats right... i get hate mail all the time about it...
im not, but i am not politically correct with any race... so i get the bs a lot.
how do you know if you are a victim? i dont know.. what was said? | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/17/2007 2:10:23 AM | So...does this make me a victim of racism?
Him:
I hit you up before and didn't get a response. I'm not buggin but I have a question. Do you not like black men or something?
Me:
I checked and you've never messaged me before...kind of a rough approach, don't you think?
Him:
Yeah I know. I wasn't trying to be an ass. Don't take it personal. I was just kinda messin with you. So whats up?
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/17/2007 11:00:46 AM | | Well T-Grow, sounds to me the girl you messaged was a complete MORON, so i don't even know why youre giving it a second thought, if someone asked me if I dated a race and I didnt particularly feel attracted for them I have a TINY bit more intelligence to reply with "Ewwww no". She sounds like she needs to go back to school! | |
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| How do you tell if your a victim of Racism?
Posted: 7/17/2007 4:38:20 PM |
Him:
I hit you up before and didn't get a response. I'm not buggin but I have a question. Do you not like black men or something?
Me:
I checked and you've never messaged me before...kind of a rough approach, don't you think?
Him:
Yeah I know. I wasn't trying to be an ass. Don't take it personal. I was just kinda messin with you. So whats up?
No, it doesn't make you a victim of racism but it does make you a victim of a clueless ass. | |
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