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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/21/2007 9:16:13 AM |
I personally can't enter into romantic relationships with them. They are very charming in the beginning though and really make you feel a bloated sense of importance, but of course that is just to land you as one of the people tools in their a***nal of life. They will never understand compassion, or what it's like to walk in another's shoes. They are seemingly incapable.
Concerning your second sentence above: Hindsight being 20/20 and all one thing to watch out for is that little IM light flashing and nothing coming out. I figured out she was typing something then would backspace over it to write a new, better more refined lie.
Now she is blocked so I am free to write out here without it being about her and getting flamed in private mail. I did not even get flamed for my own opinion. I got flamed for someone elses opinion about her.
Do you ever get the feeling a true narcissist would stick their hand up someone's backside and operate them like a puppet? It would be the ultimate in self satisfaction!
God fits great into a narcissists repetoire because they can say anything they want to and claim God told them to say or do or believe such and such. Now I know why churches get such a bad rep in my eyes: These places are where the mentally ill can hide right in plain sight! Remember Dennis Raider? Church council member
Superb point about compassion. I must remember that about any and all dates from here on out. Check for compassion. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/21/2007 10:25:53 AM | 2Coldhands...you are a peach. And obviously a resilient woman. God bless, and thank you for the support.
Lonewolf...you still aren't getting my point. I'm not wallowing in self pity OR focusing my energies on him. I'm seeking to understand so that I can be of SOME type of suppor to my children and others who have been where I have.
I AM healing. Hell, I don't look at him with disgust and he doesn't even make me angry anymore.
My self esteem is fine..now. I realize it had NOTHING to do with me and I did nothing to deserve what I went through. To move on does not mean to forget and worse yet, it doesn't mean to never speak of it as if its some shameful secret. I let it all out, whenever I can. It keeps me healthy and its MADE me healthy.
I don't need any introspection or even to ask myself any tough questions. I did. And I came to the conclusion that NO, I don't need to change who I am just because I was good and honest enough to be drawn in. That was HIS fault, not mine. I'm not changing anything except the man I was with. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/21/2007 11:16:25 AM | Dear lady, I got your point in the original post. Congratulations to you for coming to terms with yourself. Many who have been beaten down by a narcissist are still trying to find themselves in the abyss one leaves behind. For me, I sought counselling so I can stop attracting them. Scary to note that three have come from this very pond!
If you'll note the numbers, for every one response to this thread, there are twenty readers - some of whom may not have attained freedom from a narcissistic wake. Please accept my apologies if you believe my comments are a personal attack on you. Once posted, a thread in these Forums becomes public. Some folks out there need to know the clouds will part and the sun will shine on them - provided they seek it.
Steve | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/21/2007 11:19:40 AM | No problem and sorry if I misunderstood in any way, Wolf.
See, the problem I have is having the innocent party believe that they've done wrong in attracting the narcissist. They are attracted to people who are capable of deep love and loyalty. Along with a whole laundry list of other very favorable attributes that I actually love about myself.
For me, the key is recognizing them before the bond is formed. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/21/2007 7:23:27 PM | TRUE? Nothing about him was true.  I knew he had narcissist tendencies, yeah, enough that when I looked it up about my mom, I saw a lot of his behavior. But it wasn't really obvious at that point and he was so good at saying the right things, and I had spent most of my life life with a narcissist (see "mom" above) so I probably couldn't see them anyway. He was good enough it wasn't until he was gone and we were putting the pieces together that we realized he NEVER did any of those sweet things he always said he was doing. He was another one who didn't like sex. This was, of course, my fault. He has some other conditions mixed in there too, which make it even more interesting. We never fought, we talked things out, supposedly. Which means he told me what I wanted to hear enough to keep me quiet. But when confronted with facts he couldn't deny, oh boy! Scary! Everything was my fault from his taking drugs to his affair. Violent, screaming, incoherent, a total flip side to everything he pretends to be. You can't carry on a conversation with him, because he makes no sense. The more you confront him with facts, especially hard cold ones on paper, the crazier he gets.
This man had me suckered totally for many long years. He was charming and attentive, and told everyone we were soul mates. He liked having a talented pretty wife, who had a certain amount of attention of her own. Like some of the others, he once told me during one of our early days that he was afraid I would suddenly leave him, because I didn't need him. I, of course, was very reassuring, poor man, he was soooo misunderstood. I was his own little cheerleading section, telling him a hundred times a day how much I loved him and how wonderful he was.
Over the years I became more and more ill, more and more isolated. We rented a place out in the country, and somehow we could never keep two cars running so that I could have one of my own, and with no bus service, well, no life, especially since I couldn't work except from home any more. Then he was the only one getting me clients. It just kept going and going, without anyone really realizing how bad it was getting, because they never saw me any more, and I didn't even talk on the phone much.
His behavior was getting more and more odd, and I started to insist he go to the doctor for a check up, thinking maybe something physically was out of balance. Also, I had made a few friends from the internet who had actually visited, and couldn't understand the vast difference between what image he put out, and what was real. Reality was not pretty. I was beginning to wonder about some things myself.
Once the mirror is broken and you see who they really are, it's terrifying. They will do anything to stop you, anything.
But he's gone back to being Mr. Sweet, so I play along with it, because quite frankly I'm afraid if I push him, he'll do more to hurt me. I caught him stealing some of my stuff last time he was here, and he just made up a lie and I pretended to believe it and took my stuff back. He has Munchausen's by Proxy Syndrome tendencies too, they go along quite nicely with the NP. I go through the "this can't be real" "I must have done some thing wrong" the others mention too. I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone. I'm so isolated I know more people on the internet than I do in real life, especially since he has lied about me to the few friends I had.
I really believed I had found the love of my life, and that he loved me in return. I thought for many long years that we were the kind of couple that died of old age within a week of each other. He certainly led me to believe that, right up to the day he ran. I'm a very affectionate person, and he could play that to the hilt. But every so often, under the radar, he would do things that hurt forever. I assumed by accident. I gave him every benefit of the doubt, no matter what he did. I thought he was my best friend, he could be so funny and charming, and we liked the same movies and books. I still love who I thought he was, and always will. But it wasn't any more real than a fairy story and the movie is over. As soon as I possibly can, I will move with no forwarding address. At least I have the hold over him that he really doesn't want anyone to know what he really did, so he has stopped (as far as I know) trying to distroy me any further.
Any one know where I can get some Emotional Vampire repellant garlic? And the next guy is going to have to pass the "broken mirror" test! He'd better have a reflection that I show up in too! | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/21/2007 10:27:28 PM | to all, this sounds more like a combination of sociopath and narcisstic PD, they are not mutually exclusive by any means and it is quite frequent to find them in the same person. The NPD NEEDS ADMIRATION for everyone he/she meets to reinforce their idea that "they are speciaL' and the rules don't apply to them because they are special. The person with SD has no soul, no conscience and they can be VERY charming (Ted Bundy) and/or very violent (Charlie Manson) but even charlie talked others into doing his bidding. It is estimated by the people who study this that 4% of the population of the country has SD and 20% of those in prison do. NPD is most likely about the same number, but Border-line PD, SD, and NPD are all "birds of a feather" and along the same behavioral lines.
The one thing that is the common thread, is that they leave pain and misery in their wake. There is NO treatment for them because the world is not of step not them, and they don't see a need for treatment.
The only thing to "treat" SD or NPD is using your feet to RUN RUN RUN as fast as you can. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 6:55:01 AM | Wildflowerkitten- do you have any family that might be able to help you disappear? Sounds to me like he has an open door into your life and home and he uses it whenever he feels the need. Scary. PLEASE do what you need to in order to keep him from appearing in your life.
But when confronted with facts he couldn't deny, oh boy! Scary!
Oooooh, boy, do I remember that one all too well. They live on lives and depend on them for their narcissistic supply..in other words, admiration. When confronted with an irrefutable fact, they can't handle it because even they are convinced of the lies they've told. Its like the mind can't handle it. It would be, to us normal folks, as if someone told us we are literally living in The Matrix and nothing is real. We couldn't deal and would refuse to even speak further of it.
Oxdrover- I definitely relate to things you said as well. They ARE supposed to be special and above the laws of ordinary men. Its scary. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 10:04:19 AM | I'm wondering as someone who was previously married to a man with NPD (we are in the process of divorcing).
I'd, ofcourse, heard the term before. But until I did some research and found out the particulars I was just in Hell wondering what the hell was wrong with the boy.
Anyone with any experience?
I was married to one. I've read all of your posts in this thread and completely understand what you've gone through.
By the end of two years, I was ready for a rubber room. It all started to unravel for her once I realized that " I could do nothing right " and, it really had nothing to do with me at all. It was truly, all about her!. The harder you try to make things work, the harder they work to make you believe that you are just incompetent, stupid, useless...blah blah blah, fill in the blanks.... Had me wondering how on earth I'd ever managed through 33 years of life and had done quite well, without her micromanaging every single aspect of; me as a person, my business, and thoughts/emotions. Finally realizing that, it all had absolutely nothing to do with me.
If you are a person who likes to be helpful and supportive of others...you are at risk. It's what they are looking for, and they'll suck you dry of every fibre of your being, piece by piece. And, all the while telling you about how screwed you'd be without them.
You have probably found..the same as I did...that once you realize what's actually happening, no one else believes you. People just don't do things like that..without a reason...etc...Got a news flash for them...they sure as hell do!!!
It was actually, several years after she was gone before I got some answers...was still trying to figure out WTF had happened for a very long time. One day I happened upon a newspaper artice where an FBI profiler presented a psychological profile of the peronality traits required of someone in order for them to be a double agent. And...what to my wondering eyes did appear??? But, a chapter and verse description of the ex. A malignant narcissist. Holy schlamoly!!!! It wasn't all in my mind after all!
Once that was in hand, the research began in earnest. I had this strong desire to understand just what on earth had gone on, and, what drives a person to act like that.
Time heals all things. It's been quite a few years and I'm pretty much back to normal...although...an experience such as that does leave one 'changed', in some ways.
Most will never truly understand what we've gone through. It's too unreal. However, many others have had similar experiences at the hands of a narcissist to one degree or another.
Best of luck to you! The nice part is...now that you know ' the beast ', another one won't be able to sneak up on you.
PS wildflower...just wanted to say that you seem to have a great handle on things. Checked your profile and I'm curious about the animals. Unfortunately, I'm a dirty ol smoker and can't send you e-mail. What is that large cat? | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 12:49:31 PM | oxford, Sociopaths do exhibit narcissistic traits, many of the personality disorders do...but it's not that hard to distinguish really.
NPD do in fact feel pain and sadness...for themselves, not for others. What they are lacking is empathy and compassion. They may even miss the person who leaves them. They are unable to feel for anothers pain or plight or be accountable when they are the cause of it. The NPD will say "i'm sorry for having that affair because i know it hurts". Whereas the rest of us would say "I"m sorry I hurt you, I wish I could take away the pain I caused" and mean it.
Sociopaths are lacking empathy, compassion AND a conscience. They have no concept of remorse. They are don't experience pain or anguish. They might miss a person who leaves them, but basically in the same way you miss an electric drill you lost because it was useful and now you have to use a hand screwdriver. They feel nothing for anybody. But they can fake it better than a narcissist can. They just watch how other human behave in emotional situations and mimic it.
Narcissists don't fake it, they feel emotions...in regards to them only. They feel they are special and have delusions of grandeur about ideal love or abilities and think they are special and can only be understood by others who are special too. Sociopaths think they are above everyone, little gods to be worshipped, not just admired. That everyone is beneath them in all areas.
I would take a Narcissist over a Sociopath anyday. Bundy and Manson are good examples you gave of sociopaths, and yet, I wondered why you only called Manson violent...Bundy was a murdering rapist with more blood on his hands than even Manson. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 12:50:02 PM | Intheswim,
Great post.
Very clear you do *get it* about NPD. I find a lot of people think of the dictionary definition of Narcissism, and not true NPD.
I found that article about double agents VERY interesting. Narcissists do present different personalities for different sources of *supply*. So I can see how they might be very good at that type of work, would probably love it actually! LOL!
I must say I admire the way you handled it. A thorough education is the best protection ! No “rubber room” for you, thank God! | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 2:39:04 PM | | I am so sad for you, in an earlier post, clearly stated Emotional Vampire and IntheSwim - wow - I was involved for about 1 1/2 years with an undiagnosed manic (he treated himself with pills and liquor). The danger of these relationships is quite simple, they will DESTROY you. The emotional toll alone is devastating and it takes a long time to get well. I hope you have a strong family and friend base to help you through this break-up. It won't be easy at all, but once you remove yourself from "ground ZERO" you will realize that you turned a blindeye to much of the behavior, until it becomes so bizarre you can't ignore it anymore. What we are really talking about is YOUR emotional wellbeing. The "unhealthy" person will quickly find another victim to replace you. RUN, RUN, RUN! | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 4:53:30 PM | I found that article about double agents VERY interesting. Narcissists do present different personalities for different sources of *supply*. So I can see how they might be very good at that type of work, would probably love it actually! LOL!
There is still Munchausen's by Proxy.
It's not over yet. My son is still at risk. It was him that actually tipped over the apple cart as far as she was concerned. From almost as soon as he was born, she was finding "things wrong with him". She would study and study and then go to the doctors fully armed to present her case. His problems were always of the invisible nature. ADHD, Autism, Aspergers etc. She seemed to know...it all seemed to be perfectly reasonable...and then a turning point...it just wasn't adding up. Seemed more to be like a self-fullfilling prophesy.
The more I observed the less sense there was to it. He wasn't exhibiting the behaviours at all, however, she was pushing an agenda that he had these problems. Once I decided to begin challenging her idea's it was "game on" ! It's still on.
She tried one last time before he turned 18 to have him legally declared an incompetent dependant. He is anything but! The worst of it is, she's almost convinced him that he has all of these disabilities, and, hence, he must be disabled. The only disability he has is this monster that is relentlessly attacking him and his very sense of self and being. He's had to deal with this for his entire life, methinks he can be excused for being a bit hyper at times.
Who wouldn't be?
In the past few months, she's decided that fetal alcohol syndrome is his problem. She's now pushing that one on to him, and anyone else who will listen.
Can anyone tell me why a mother would start telling her 21 year old son something like this? It's not even like it's left at being mentioned..it is pushed and pushed and pushed..
I can see that he's losing ground again. He was doing so well for so long.
The options are few as to how to put an end to this....I'm open to suggestions. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 6:11:43 PM | intheswim,
It's hard to advise with such a small amount of 411. I'm sure it's a complex situation.
However there are forums for adult children of N's that might be able to help you find some ideas to help your son.(MSM groups, has a great NPD abuse support group))
Sorry you have to deal with all this,
Take care,
JSM | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 6:22:24 PM | dear intheswim and others who have had the unfortunate luck to interact with these human "vampires" my sympathy. and empathy and I am glad you survived. Not always unscathed but at least you survived. Not everyone who interacts with this type of malignant personality disorder does even survive.
My previous post about Manson being "violent" was poorly worded, Manson was and is violent, and so was Bundy--I just meant that most "normal" people could look at manson and his spouting off and realize quickly that he was violent/dangerous, and Bundy HID HIS VIOLENCE very well. He was reportedly very very charmng and disarming to "normal" folks and he did prey on the "helpful, unsuspecting" folks.
While sociopaths are not always the same as NPDs, all of these PERSONALILTY DISORDERS share dysfunctional ways of interacting with others, they suck you dry emotionally, and sometimes financially, and every other way there is to use someone as the object of their parasitic interpersonal relations.
We are usually taught to think that most people are "good" and don't have ulterior motives, and most "average normal people" (if there is such a thing) are good intentioned, but these people are, for lack of a better word, EVIL. The things they do are evil, and they see NOTHING wrong with this behavior...anymore than a tick on a dogs ear sees that it is doing anything wrong. It is doing what blood sucking things do, getting what it wants/needs and not giving anything back. Unless it is disease and misery.
There are the charming Ted Bundy's and the not so charming Charlie Mansons of this world regardless of whether or not they get "caught" at what they do or not. If their behaivor is ONLY mental and emotional anguish on their "nearest and dearest" that usually doesn't land them in prison but as far as I am concerned, I would rather one cut my throat than ruined my life forever and left me wondering what "I had done wrong"--I feel very sorry for their families and "friends." | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 8:18:49 PM | Yes, I WAS always amazed at the things my ex would say were ok as far as he was concerned. As long as the person in question had no connection to him he would just as soon as slit someone's throat as look at them.
We would be watching t.v. on an average night and news horror stories that would have me in tears he would shrug off. "thats life". And ya, that seems minimal all things considered, but I assure you all that that simply scratched the surface.
One thing that DOES come to mind now that I've had confirmation from some here about child hood trauma....he hated any type of violence towards children. He would be quite seriously ready to kill anyone he heard of harming a child. This seemed endearing and admirable in him to me at first, but now I see that its likely more to do with him and his past experiences than anything else. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/22/2007 8:56:57 PM | I survived ... and learned from the experience. Really, it seems some of the fastest ways to detect narcissistic traits in pre-date screening is disagreement or the word NO. Though some may be clever (glib) enough to to keep a good front until you're hooked, on that first date, watch how they complain or treat that person who dared to put ketsup on the burger he/she ordered without. It's not a sure sign - but it's a warning to watch out.
Steve | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/23/2007 2:19:49 PM | Ah yes......but one of my favorite quotes (ok, maybe it was just a bumper sticker) said....
"Only YOU can prevent Narcissism!" heehee...made me laugh! | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/23/2007 4:07:42 PM | | So your advice would be if you have a gf/partner with a disorder then the best thing to do is to run away from them then? | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/23/2007 4:46:49 PM | I spent a year with someone with this outlook on life. The way I looked at it was that it was a small price to pay for the "trophy" girlfriend. Christmas was expensive, my only choice was which card I would put her choice on. After building a four hundred sqfoot deck a new fireplace and numerous other "projects" on her house. I came to understand at that time I was looking for more substance and less looks or status. Lesson Learned.
Don | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/23/2007 5:15:25 PM |
^^^^^^^ man! I wish I could find that one for my ex. Just put it on his car without saying a word.
Wouldn't that be great!! I should find it..... you know it's out on the Internet somewhere! lol | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/23/2007 6:57:07 PM | Definately an awesome thread quadmom. Glad you started it as it helped me out too. Funny how I really had no idea until my girlfriend brought it up to me. Never heard the term before. At least if people are more knowledgeable about this sort of thing, they can be more aware the next time one tries to waltz their way into our lives. NO Thanks!!!
Here's to talking about things, healing and moving on. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 2/23/2007 10:37:02 PM |
However there are forums for adult children of N's that might be able to help you find some ideas to help your son.(MSM groups, has a great NPD abuse support group))
Thanks for the tip! I'll be checking it out. | |
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