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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:01:03 PM | I was also married to a narcissist. He wedged himself between his family & me and is still trying to come between me & my children.
Well OP, at least we are free | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 8:24:54 AM | Stay away. They will destroy your life. There is no getting better for them.
This is the way they are - always and forever.
Do not feel bad for them. They are well aware of what they are and what they
do.
It is pathological.(curlygrl)
Curly.... is there successful treatment for someone that is fully narcissistic? IF so, what seems to work best?
I know I have encountered the NPD... I know I could never approach the demon working inside her, as any form of criticism would be met harshly. But it's amazing the way this works....the devaluing of my person AFTER such a display of affection and attention to get me into her world.
Is there a chance for us to be friends?
She broke this off with me...several times.... so... should I expect to see a return?
See, she told me...after breaking up several times....that she just wanted a friends/benefits, that she'd eventually want to go out with someone else, to "see what's out there", but she knew I wanted more, so it was best we just stop dating. I suspect she will continue having trouble dating...that she won't be able to have a true, successful, LTR or marriage, because once she conquers her target, she's going to want to conquer another. IS this accurate?
I'm just wondering if there has been a treatment that was successful for NPD's- be it psychoanalysis, drugs, or other. I'd like to see this person get out of this behavior pattern, feel what it's like in a LTR, be able to have a child, and learn that her NPD is keeping her from having things she claims to want in life.
FOR INSTANCE.... is there a CD set that can be listened to...that would give a narcissist the path to better living and do they ever recover or from their behavior?
Thanks | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 9:15:23 AM | This is a PERMANENT personality disorder-
Pathology - the inability to change.
They cant. They are hard wired like this. YOU cant save her.
She does not want to be saved anyway because she does not think
this is wrong behavior. She is not NORMAL in THINKING like you are.
YOU know right from wrong- YOU know when to stop and hold yourself
back - they DONT. They choose not too.
They have poor impulse control.
They dont treat ANYONE well- That is PATHOLOGY : The inability
to grow, or develop insight into your own BEHAVIOR.
You cannot be friends - they are not your friend. They are not ANYBODYS
friend. No cure. She will not miraculously heal with a year in therapy and
some meds. It will never happen. She will not get better but probably worse
with age- and her looks will fade and she will just get meaner. They dont seek
treatment because they dont think anything is wrong - and they have been
known to CHARM professionals. Nothing - no treatment.
Stop looking for ways to save her. YOU cant. No one can.
She does not want to be saved or even feel the need to be saved. They dont
FEEL- they mirror YOUR feelings, YOUR behaviors.
Just think - you must of been a great guy in the beginning - she was MIRRORING
YOU.
When they think in the pea sized brain of thiers that they are not getting what
they want from you or you have caught on - they start to devalue you- kick
you to the curb, abandon you for thier next supply.
It truly is all about them - very selfish. They WILL destroy you. How much
they can hurt YOU does mean something to them, as sick as that sounds it
is the truth.
Mine said to me- "I saw how happy you were and it was killing me" -
now think about it, why would someone in a relationship be upset that the
other party was so happy? -
Because it is about THEM and thier HAPPINESS.
I know you are hurting and you are looking for answers to fix it. You cant.
Its not you- its them.
Please find some support and please heal from her. You are worth so much
more- do not seek validation of the man you are from a lying, cheating
pathological. It is not worth it. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 9:55:38 AM | | so are you saying there is something wrong with being a narcissist....just because you love yourself doesn't mean you can't also love someone else too... | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 10:20:43 AM | ^^being a malignant narcissists has nothing to do with loving yourself.
Everyone has some selfishness to them. Everyone has healthy traits of narcissism.
This is a personality disorder.
This should not be confused with someone who loves themselves.
That's where pathological narcissism stops. These people actually have very low self esteem.
The mirror part - they mirror you.
They can't feel. They get how they
Should react from you.
Totally different in the context you are referring too.
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 11:01:49 AM |
They dont treat ANYONE well- That is PATHOLOGY : The inability
to grow, or develop insight into your own BEHAVIOR.
I have to intervene here, curlygrl.....
From what I'm perceiving, you might be suggesting that pathology is VOLUNTARY.
Pathology is not voluntary it is the construction of the disease.
Behaviour is voluntary, but by your own definition, pathology inhibits insight into behaviour.
CONSEQUENCES gave me an insight into my pathology, which in turn led me to LEARN (mostly from other people) insight into my bad behaviour....impulse control, bad judgment, etc. If I'm on the fence about something, I will still ask someone I trust.
Having PATHOLOGY isn't a walk in the park, trust me. Alot of my life was wasted because of it, and I'm having to take alot of time now, to get somewhere even CLOSE to where most people are in the first place.
Manerider:
curlygrl is right....friendship with a narcissist is not possible...nothing will change, and you are setting yourself up for an "anything goes" relationship, with NO committment whatsoever with a person who has no respect for committment in the first place. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 3:52:34 PM | very familair all.. yeah..
although my ex is a woman, and I firmly believe that she might have that disorder too..
the no empathy, the fact they only display empathy infront of people.. that describes her..
idk.. she always called me delusional or a spycho or whatever mental disorder you can think of, when I wanted to talk about what I wasn't happy with in our "marriage"
I had a pretty crappy youth.. well I know everybody been through sh*t.. and that's what she always said when I was depressed or struggling about things..
and I should grow up etc. even got mad, and started throwing her phrases around..
manipulative as the devil I tell ya.. and she made sure she always was everybody's best side.. and made me feel like trash or sub-human..
been apart now since april... | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:04:50 PM | From what I'm perceiving, you might be suggesting that pathology is VOLUNTARY.
Quasi-
I never said it was voluntary - I said it is the INABILITY to change.
They are WIRED like this. There is something that happens in the
developement years of thier brain.
Some of it is predisposed from abuse - and some of it is just something
that happens. Many studies done, even MRI's of thier brains which
shows differences from normal "thinking" brains. You can google
narcissist brain scan. -
PATHOLOGY : The inability to grow, or develop IINSIGHT into YOUR
OWN BEHAVIOR. You have grown insight into your behavior. You are not
pathological.
I was trying to read back and see some of your post and if I understand
correctly you do not suffer from narcissism.
What you struggle with is not on the same level of narcissism. YOU know
when your behavior affects someone and WANT to do something about that
behavior - Narcissist DONT CARE how they treat people or try
to get help. Its about them.
Big difference and I commend you on how far you have come and what you
Struggle with - My sister struggles with Bipolar and manic depression.
Both treatable with therapy and meds. But very very hard on her.
Narcissism is not treatable.
They dont want to get better because they dont want nor do they care
to get better - they dont feel there is anything wrong. Although I will say
this - they are aware that something is wrong with them and it is in thier
head.
The first Narc I had a relationship with was not aware - or at least he did
not lead on but the second one- he was well aware there was "something
in his head" that made his behavior uncontrolable. He also had other
contributing issues which helped his illness to blossom.
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:06:18 PM |
What you struggle with is not on the same level of narcissism. YOU know
when your behavior affects someone and WANT to do something about that
behavior - Narcissist DONT CARE how they treat people or try
to get help. Its about them.
I suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder.....also a cluster B Axis II Personality Disorder according to the DSM-IV.
Rather than suffering from "grandiosity", I suffer from "emotional dysregulation" as the main symptom.
I had a narcissist boyfriend (off and on) for close to 8 years. He is a classic narcissist, had had treatment, and some of our pathology was quite similar.
Empathy/ compassion was where our pathology parted company. He had none. BUT, I could have done the same things that he did, just for different reasons.
What I did would be emotionally driven.
What he did was entitlement driven.
Both pathological, with the same outcome.
Like you said to manerider, the thinking is not normal, it's very distorted, but until the person takes responsibility for their behaviour, they believe that YOUR thinking is distorted, and that THEY are right. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/18/2009 6:57:43 AM |
^^^^^^^ Powerful stuff going on here Ladies! Makes us understand these Narc weirdo's so much better!
Thanks Ladies
I didn't realize this was a womens glee club....considering I'm a guy...
OH, but..... you go girl......
Clearly, this is not a gender issue .... let's not try to make it one. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/18/2009 7:37:38 AM | No this is absolutely not a gender issue but the percentages that it affects are higher in men than women but woman still hold this
Title as a very close second.
Maybe Quasi knows something more about the women side. My
Research has led me into zeroing in on men.
I know during my research that women are just As bad but their pathology is slightly different in some behaviors.
I have read some info on women and know of some info that deals directly with women narcissists.
The info for men overshadows it but its pretty basic and can be applied to both sexes as far As traits and behaviors.
So the info that I am spewing applies to both here. Not gender specific.
And its only info attributed to first hand experience and a lot of research.
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/18/2009 10:51:43 AM | There are many different combinations of symptoms for both Borderline Personality Disorder, and Narcissism.
I found a good article on NPD on the web. It's long, but it has good info, and good descriptions of probable causation of NPD.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html
If you've done research, and have a half an hour to spare, this is worth reading.
I probably have an easier time with my breakup with my NPD, because I understand how he thinks, to a point. The fact that he had been to therapy, and had improved in certain areas didn't offset the area that he refused to work on....empathy and compassion. That would have involved allowing himself to become "vulnerable" with a therapist.
Vulnerability is not often an option with B cluster disorded patients.
I'm an exception rather than the rule
PS to manerider....one theory as to why the majority of narcissists are male, is because it's less acceptable, in society for men to be "emotional" than for women. That's my one line gender explanation..... | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/18/2009 1:04:34 PM | Manerider, I was just complimenting Curly and Quazi for thier prolific input on the subject..wasn't catogorizing anyone .... we all know that its not gender biased but the majority of men are Narcs...
thank you gals... Im learning a lot! | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:20:09 PM | I realize I am years too late here but I just joined POF and discovered the forums looking for someone who had experience dating a recovered alchololic and came across your post. I was involved with a true narcissist for over a year. Prior to getting involved with him, I had no idea that such a thing existed. He was/is a fairly successful actor and he completely devastated me. I am fine now but it was a roller coaster ride.
How are you now? It's been almost 3 years. | |
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| Dialect of a raging N.. omg!!
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:49:39 AM | (exN sent me this in a cell phone TEXT MSG 2 days before D&D.. I responded to tell him to FO! Looks like it was the last god-given right he felt to bestow upon me -to kiss his arse? What do y'all think???)
Rebecca,
I chose not to call you back last night because I was Really Pissed off & I wanted a night to think.
1. NONE of my phones received your claimed first call you obviously didn't & / or rang the wrong number.
2. Your Facebook conversation was rude & totally out of line. You called me names. I responded accordingly.
3. I am reliable (seemingly unlike yourself) as when I say I will do something I do it. I said I was coming to the party & I don't (at all) appreciate being questioned over and over about it. You appear to have massive trust issues from previous relationships - get it into your head now that I am a new person.
4. Your constant negativity & indecisiveness is really starting to get me down. Stop it. NOW.
5. I just listened to your voicemail from last night so now I am Really Pissed Off. You need to get a mirror & have a look at yourself Rebecca. I haven't changed at all, but your behaviour this last week or so has been really badly negative & down. Plus there is is only so many many times I can try to refute your negative claims. In the end it seems you just aren't listening.
6. I'm actually quite ill - not that you seem to give a shit, as all you talk about are your own issues.
7. You talk of two way streets & who is set in their ways... and then also say "this is how I am & I won't change". Take a good look at that statement Rebecca.
8. Your endless procrastination about the plane trip in December is symptomatic of the issues here, and now in the context of other issues, really bothers me, SO, I'm Really Pissed Off with, and Disappointed in you. You don't take on board my positive comments, you constantly question me, you should re-read (not for the first time) your Facebook and MSN conversations, and see WHO comes across shitty. I said I would come today, & will if you still want me to. The idea of the restaurant that may, or may not be open when we have to be somewhere at 7pm doesn't work. And right now you are thinking "do I have any good points"? Yes. Many. And previously enumerated. But it is time to sort some of the negatives out. Calm down. Take a chill pill. STOP IT.
I & those I have discussed YOUR issues with think you're not sleeping is highly unusual.
(cont. next post)... | |
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| Dialect of a raging N.. (Continued)..
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:53:38 AM | I consulted a sleep expert about YOUR problems and she said "no wonder she would be negative". You seriously need to fix that. No one survives on less than 5-6 good hours sleep a night, and 7-9 hours is the normal range for adults. That’s all for now. Arguments are inevitable in any relationship ..what is important & most telling is how people (YOU) react now.
~~~~~~~~
Bloody Hell!
'What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and yet lose his own soul?'
-Oscar Wilde
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| Dialect of a raging N.. (Continued)..
Posted: 10/19/2009 10:29:24 AM |
No one survives on less than 5-6 good hours sleep a night, and 7-9 hours is the normal range for adults.
I'm not going to comment on the text ......
If this part about lack of sleep is true, you really should look into it.
My ex narc went through a period of insomnia for about a month (sleeping here and there, off and on) It got so bad for him that he walked into his shrink's office with a sword (yes a sword) and threatened to kill himself with it, if the shrink didn't help him get some sleep.
They kept him in the hospital, and he's been on sleeping pills since. | |
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| Dialect of a raging N.. (Continued)..
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:10:18 PM | I dated a woman who I believe to suffer from NPD. Please read the following and let me know if this sounds like the right diagnosis:
She was very clingy and needy. She always needed for me to be either right next to her when we were sitting (If I was in a chair she would pull me right up next to her to the point where we were touching) or she would want me in the same room with her at all times. I believe this falls under the low self esteem, and controlling aspect of NPD.
She was really bad about always finding someone to belittle whenever we were out in public. If it was just her and I she would find someone in the room and make comments about how ugly the person was or how poorly they were dressed. If we were out with other people she would sometimes belittle them to their face. In some cases these were close friends and relatives. She would also make it a point to talk about how great she was and make outrageous boasts about her accomplishments/experiences that were generally over-exaggerations or actually never took place.
She made a point to excessively boast about me to anyone we were around in a way that mirrored how she would boast about herself. Always commenting on how smart, funny, and successful I was. In one case she went out of her way to verbally attack a family member saying that they were basically losers because they had questioned my career path but they said it in a non-insulting, non-threatening manner she then proceeded to rudely boast about how much more successful I was and so on.
She was very self conscience about her appearance and would get very frustrated if she felt like she was not perfect with her hair, makeup or weight even though she was naturally attractive and in great physical shape.
She would have fits of rage that involved hitting, screaming, throwing things and emotional breakdowns whenever I would question her opinion. She refused to accept any opinion other than her own unless I physically proved it without a shadow of a doubt before she would concede.
She didn’t have any close friends when I met her. The only people she would speak to on a regular basis were her sister and occasionally her mother. She would stay in random contact with all of her ex-boyfriends but the conversations were only via text and they consisted of them telling their current life stories but with her only responding in unemotional 1 or 2 word answers. I believe she does this to keep them around and to feed her ego. She made little effort to make any long term friends with other people, especially other women during our relationship. Anytime I would try and develop friendships with other couples she would purposely go out of her way to be rude and insulting.
She also had numerous jobs. (Approx. 8 when I met her and she was only 22 at the time.) She claimed that she quickly moved up the corporate ladder at each place and eventually was director of some dept. or another but every job ended with some serious infraction on the employer's part like withholding of pay, sexual harassment, or a lack of appreciation of her talents that would prompt her to leave.
She was constantly telling me (daily basis) about how some guy she met that day (she was in outside sales) had asked her out or boasted about how beautiful she was. Granted she was an attractive and outgoing woman and I am sure this did happen on occasion but she made a point to tell me about it every day. She also claimed that her Chiropractor tried to rape her during one of their sessions. This happened while we were together and I tried to get her to call the police but she refused and really wasn’t all that upset about the situation so I now question what really happened.
She claimed to have been sexually abused when she was younger but never told me by whom. She thinks that numerous people have tried to slip GHB in her drinks over the years. Going as far as saying that two were successful but she realized something was wrong so nothing happened. She always had some different ailment and used them as crutches to avoid situations that made her uncomfortable or when she felt like she wasn't in control.
Our relationship lasted approx. and year and probably would have went on longer than that but I started becoming more vocal about her issues. Once that happened she realized that she no longer had control of her NSS and broke up with me. She ended up quitting her job (we worked in the same office) and moving back to her home town.
She would continue to call, text, and or email letting me know how great she was doing without me and how she had the perfect job and perfect boyfriend, blah, blah, blah. She said these things within days of getting both. She contacted someone at my work that she had a somewhat friendly relationship to find out what I was doing/working on and then would call me and leave belittling VM’s telling me that I was a loser and that she was more successful than me. I eventually changed my number and blocked her emails but she was able to get my new phone number and just started emailing me from different accounts. The communication finally stopped when I told her I thought she had NPR and that I would get a restraining order if she ever contacted me again.
I understand that men mainly suffer from this condition but I have noticed that woman currently in the 18-25 age demographic may be more prone to suffer from NPR as opposed to older age groups. From what I understand of NPR it can possibly be caused by a lack of parental attention or an over abundance or some traumatic experience that happened during childhood like a divorce or physical abuse. I did notice that my ex’s mother always made a point to tell her how beautiful she was and how successful she was going to be because of it and she herself had been thru numerous marriages, relationships, and jobs. Physical appearance was very influential in their day way of thinking. My ex.’s parents also divorced when she was very young and she is very bitter towards her father’s current family and the siblings from that relationship.
The interesting thing about the relationship was the feeling of having this huge weight lifted off of me when it was finally over. She truly was my Kryptonite. I understand what others have said about the charm, and manipulation that people with this condition possesses so it can be difficult to end a relationship with someone who has this condition if in fact it was NPR. | |
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| Dialect of a raging N.. (Continued)..
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:48:41 PM | First off, I'm not a Doctor, and not qualified to diagnose anyone....
As a GUESS, I would say Borderline Personality Disorder
Hate being alone
Verbally attacking people (especially in public-Narcs try to be "perfect" when in public) and emotional breakdowns (Narcs don't often breakdown)
Numerous jobs (boredom, or not feeling adequate...this is a common red flag)
The Chiropractor "rape" she may have overreacted and misunderstood something he was doing....and when confronted about talking to the police, realized that she may have been wrong (wouldn't admit it tho)
Ailments to avoid uncomfortable situations
I could pick apart every line of your post and probably find something in it. I suggest you look up BPD, and see what you think, for yourself | |
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| Dialect of a raging N.. (Continued)..
Posted: 10/19/2009 2:27:35 PM | BPD was my second assumption.
She was very adament about not being alone. I went on a business trip once and I was only planning on being gone for 2 weeks but it turned in three. Instead of being happy to see me when I got back, she proceeded to have one of her temper tantrums about how it was disrespectful and rude to leave her alone for that long.
She also had major fears of abandonment. She finally ended the relationship because I made repeated attempts at leaving her shortly before the break up. A few days before the break-up she started texting one of her ex's being more open about herself and a few phone conversations took place which was a little out of the ordinary for her.
As far as the verbally attacking in public and emotional breakdowns comment: She would only verbally attack in order to prove how perfect she and I were. She also had a tendancy to do this more toward men then women. She did have numerous breakdowns in public though and I can see how a Narc wouldn't allow themselves to do that.
Can people who suffer from BPD lack empathy for others?
Unlike people who suffer from NPR, can they have successful relationships if their SO understands the disease? | |
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| Dialect of a raging N.. (Continued)..
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:56:21 PM | We're getting off topic here.....but....
Since BPD is an emotional dysfunction, and normally we overreact, we usually have more empathy for others than the average person.
Although, if we are "devaluing" the person, we can walk away, and not look back. If we perceive you as untrustworthy (which happens most of the time) we will dump you totally unceremoniously.
Strictly based on the difference in compassion and empathy, I would say that of the two disorders, BPD would be more successful.
The success of a relationship would depend on the willingness of the BPD to control their behaviours and the ability of the SO to ensure security....but not enable....NOT TAKE THINGS PERSONALLY....and be able to convince the BPD when their thinking is distorted....(particularly hard, because everyone has some distorted thoughts, and the SO is no exception)
The SO would have to be an exceptionally strong person to have a SUCCESSFUL relationship with a BPD who hasn't modified their behaviour. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:04:11 PM | No charity, I don't agree..after knowing one and a friend who was married to one this NPD goes wat beyond sociopath. They are much more cunning. Its not an excuse its a diagnosis. There are many parts of human behavior yet to be discovered. Its another way to compartmentalize eat disorder by its behavior and symptoms..including family history. Not every mental disorder is the same. This goes way beyond sociopath..which most think is the worst..its not. | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 11/12/2009 2:00:22 PM | | Manerider you bring up a good point. I think the partners of NPD start acting out of frustration these NPDs put them through. They start doing things they would never do because to old way wasn't working to try and make the relationship work. The partner then feels regret and the NPD beats the crap out of every mistake they have made..including magnifying it to the extent..you could see it clear from Russia...like shooting a puppy trapped in a barrel. My Friend got tired of her ex N flirting with everyone that could feed his ego. She gave him a taste of his own medicine as anytime she tried to tell him it fell on deaf ears. Thats when she saw his rage come out. One minute he would try to manipulate her back in and when she would try he'd shoot her in the barrel again. Like a broken record...over and over until she had to become cold and unwavering just to be able to get out from under his reign and survive. She knew if she went out on him that was his breaking point and proceeded to lie about having a boyfriend and what they did ect. I know she's not that type, but she had to undercut her integrity will others to escape him. She is now back on track because of counceling and feeling bad about what she had to do to get away.However it just goes to show how they easily can make you feel like its all you. He also in court brought all that out to make her look like a whore and a cheat but she hung in there. SHE knew herself and thats all that mattered..getting away from the emotional vampire...and get his influence away from their children. He even started getting weird with his kids so she booked at the right time. Shes watching him repeat his victimization with his new fix for supply. My friend used to be that gullable too..wait till she finds out shes been had..but then shes an addict like he is and needs someone to rescue her..who knows. Be careful who you hang out with..it can make you feel crazy...run as fast as you can... | |
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| Anyone Ever Dated A TRUE Narcissist?
Posted: 11/12/2009 6:47:47 PM |
No charity, I don't agree..after knowing one and a friend who was married to one this NPD goes wat beyond sociopath. They are much more cunning. Its not an excuse its a diagnosis. There are many parts of human behavior yet to be discovered. Its another way to compartmentalize eat disorder by its behavior and symptoms..including family history. Not every mental disorder is the same. This goes way beyond sociopath..which most think is the worst..its not.
Anti-social, or sociopath is a more severe disorder than narcissist....
As I said earlier on, sociopaths have NO conscience and will sometimes kill their partner rather than divorcing them....Drew Peterson comes to mind. And as I said earlier, the killer in the movie Silence of the Lambs is a sociopath. He killed women, and used their skin to make lampshades.
A narcissist may kill, but the motivation would be more about keeping their identity intact....making sure the SO doesn't "blow their cover".
Sociopaths use people to get what they want....and if that person is in their way, they may remove them. Humans are pawns to be used to meet their desires.
This is beyond the scope of a narcissist...... | |
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