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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/15/2008 10:28:07 PM |
I do believe the effect is real but due too the increased mass of the clock particle emission's are slowed which is different than time dilation.
You should write your theory up and send it in to the Nobel Committee, if you can prove Einstein wrong, there's a million dollar Nobel prize with your name on it, until then as I said, I'll go with good old Albert.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/16/2008 10:08:56 AM |
isnt it space time thus making all of your post save last line a post for posts sake nonsense
That's very true, Einstein spoke of space-time in his works, which was actually suggested as early as 1908 by other people. So we actually live in a 4d universe, according to Einstein.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/16/2008 11:27:06 AM | Just watched Horizon-Time Trip. Good, but disturbing.
The more we discover, the more WE look like the odd balls. Time isn't even constant! According to Einstein, time is like space (Space-Time). If every bit of space exists now, every bit of time also exists. So somewhere in the universe, your ancectors and decendants exist. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:05:54 PM | | Time is the reformation of matter/energy as seen by some matter/energy. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:12:38 PM |
Time is the reformation of matter/energy as seen by some matter/energy,
Not sure what this means and where it comes from.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/16/2008 2:35:58 PM | | i always thought of time as a way of organising life, imagine life with out the concept of time, chaos | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 9:04:08 AM | | ^^^ We measure what we think is time. Perhaps it doesn't even exist. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 11:02:12 AM | | Time is a construct of the human consciousness - without human awareness registering time - time does not exist. Prove otherwise. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 12:23:15 PM | | Time is arbitrarily defined into units for convenience but it's not an illusion. There's a reason we call it space/time as opposed to simply one or the other word. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 12:57:55 PM |
Time is a construct of the human consciousness - without human awareness registering time - time does not exist. Prove otherwise.
The proof, to met at least, is that humans existed for only a small and recent part of the history of the universe. The universe existed, along with time (stars lived their lives, atoms decayed according to the same laws of physics, and time, as today) long before humans existed, so time, whatever it is, existed before and without humans
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 1:03:17 PM |
Time is arbitrarily defined into units for convenience but it's not an illusion. There's a reason we call it space/time as opposed to simply one or the other word.
I don't think the basic definition of time, the second, is arbitrary. Currently, it is defined as the duration of 9 192 631 770 transition between 2 hyperfine energy levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom. Not too arbitrary.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 5:40:38 PM | | The speed of time is equal to the speed of light (approximately 186,046.5 miles per second), which is proved by Einsteins theory of relativity. As you approach the speed of light, time slows down for you but remains the same for everyone else. Interestingly, it was found when two space capsules containing nuclear clocks were sent into orbit going opposite directions, that the clocks differed by about a millionth of a second after the experiment was done. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/17/2008 7:51:04 PM |
The speed of time is equal to the speed of light (approximately 186,046.5 miles per second),......
I don't recall a speed of time being defined in any physics courses I took, of course, I only had special relativity. For example, everything else, including gravity and electromagnetic fields propagate at the speed of light. Time is a strange bird. It is part of our coordinate system (x, y, z, t), yet we are free to move in x, y, z as we see fit, or stay still. However, we can only move one direction in time (at least so far), that's into the future. I seem to recall reading somewhere that some postulate it is the opposite in a black hole, one can move only in one direction in (x,y,z), toward the center of the black hole, but you would be able to move any direction you want in time. Of course you'd be ripped to shreds long before entering the black hole, but it's an interesting thought. I tend to think of time as a coordinate, it does move, but time moving at the speed of light just doesn't seem right to me.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/18/2008 1:22:59 AM |
The proof, to met at least, is that humans existed for only a small and recent part of the history of the universe. The universe existed, along with time (stars lived their lives, atoms decayed according to the same laws of physics, and time, as today) long before humans existed, so time, whatever it is, existed before and without humans
This is not proof - there are to many assumptions.
You are assuming that every thing exists without the consciousness of man. What if everything exists because of the consciousness of man.
The rhetoric being preached is the dogma of the scientific community and reinforced by a circular reasoned methodology wrapped up in a tidy little bow, but what if they have the cart before the horse.
Consciousness + Energy create the nature of reality.
If we continue to think the way we've always thought - We'll continue to get what we've always got. Time to think out side of the box.
Give it a shot. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/18/2008 9:00:51 AM | This is not proof - there are to many assumptions. ......
This is absolute proof, if you believe in science and not that some god put everything here when he created us to fool us or test us. Humans have existed for the smallest insignificant fraction of the universe. The universe, and the laws of physics have long predated man and will exist long after man's demise. The laws of physics in our universe were determined at it's creation from the big bang. Experiments have shown they are the same as far as we can see with our modern telesopes. And looking at great distances with telescopes is like looking far back into time. When we look at an object billions of light years away, we see it as it was billions of years ago. Proof the universe and physics (and time) long predated man.
There is absolutely no proof of any of the assertions you made. In fact I don't think you can even quantify them. What are the units of consciousness? How is it added to engergy? How does it factor into E=MC^2?, or the P=MV, or any other fundamental equations of energy.
Of course if you don't believe in the science, I guess you also don't believe in the computer your using. After all, it's all based on solid state semi-conductor physics which relies heavily on quantum mechanics. Maybe the quantum physicists are the only one's who got it right?....I don't think so.
As for thinking outside the box, science often does that. After all, relativity and quantum mechanics were considered outside the box when they were first proposed. However they were validated by years of experimentation and observation. Thinking outside the box is part of science, that's how new theories are developed.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/25/2008 12:28:40 PM | So nice to be back – Eh!!, What is this?
This is absolute proof, if you believe in science and not that some god put everything here when he created us to fool us or test us
Certainly not the creationist theories. No my friend I do not adhered to that dogmatic theology.
The universe, and the laws of physics have long predated man and will exist long after man's demise. The laws of physics in our universe were determined at it's creation from the big bang.
I might remind you that the "Big Bang Theory" is exactly that - a theory, and to be more precise, more like a hypothesis Circular reasoning reinforces a belief system. Again, too many assumptions.
When we look at an object billions of light years away, we see it as it was billions of years ago. Proof the universe and physics (and time) long predated man.
There is absolutely no proof of any of the assertions you made. In fact I don't think you can even quantify them. What are the units of consciousness? How is it added to engergy? How does it factor into E=MC^2?, or the P=MV, or any other fundamental equations of energy.
Has anything - anything at all, ever been created that wasn't first imagined? Of course your response might be - sure! The universe, the planet, air, water - etc. I would reply - bravo, yes excellent! And how might you prove that? - You would say that science (physics) says yada, yada ,yada, etc. So who created physics?
What natural power created the means to define reality? Man defines reality. Man’s consciousness defines it. Nothing exists without first being imagined.
Believe me when I say the sciences (physics) are the best thing we got going, but it is only a tool we use to define the physical world. If we believe our science as we know it is the pinnacle of our knowledge than we will be in for a rude awakening.
How is reality measured? Reality is measured by anything that has weight/mass and takes up space/volume. Included in this would be distance. Now time has no mass and does not take up space, yet we in the science field wish to associate it with distance. For example, how long will it take till someone can understand or think upon or dare I say - image a concept? So that would be time. The reason this query has given every one so much trouble is that time, is measured by and defined by man's consciousness, which is un-measurable with the scientific tools we have at our disposal. Our science is only as good as the tools by which we use to measure things.
Does the science community believe in anything that can not be measured? How about the quantum world? Can that be measured? At first in the 1920’s not even close, yet it was hypothesized and how far has it come? Quark , bosons – etc.
E=MC ^2 ----- Energy is equal to Mass X the speed of light squared.
Albert's Theory of Relativity
What is Mass? - Mass is coagulated (vibrating at a slower frequency)Energy - (Basic chemistry here)
What is light? - Light is Energy vibrating at a higher frequency - even if it is squared - still Energy
We apply the speed of energy from a conscious construct created and defined by man. (Time)
Who created those laws of physics? - when answering this question consider as a possibility that consciousness and energy create reality. (What causes a wave to become a particle? - consciousness) what causes energy to coagulate into mass? – Consciousness
So could we possibly take Albert’s Theory of Relativity and call it
R = EC ?
Reality is equal to Consciousness plus energy.
The thrust of much of this discussion has been that time has always existed outside of man. If this is true – Who defines time? Who gives its parameters its structure?
And for the sake of this discussion – If we weren’t here (alive, as it is termed) to expound upon the many attributes of time, then Time would cease to exist for us. When you leave your life on this plain of experience will time exist for you?
What then is time to us outside of our physical body’s? No – thing | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/25/2008 2:32:43 PM |
I might remind you that the "Big Bang Theory" is exactly that - a theory, and to be more precise, more like a hypothesis Circular reasoning reinforces a belief system. Again, too many assumptions. I'm not sure if the big bang is a theory, but it is accepted, I believe, by just about every physicist and cosmologist around. I believe it. There is tremendous evidence including prediction of the ratio of particles we find today. Has anything - anything at all, ever been created that wasn't first imagined? Of course your response might be - sure! The universe, the planet, air, water - etc. I would reply - bravo, yes excellent! And how might you prove that? - You would say that science (physics) says yada, yada ,yada, etc. So who created physics?....
Yes, I would say the universe was created before anyone imagined it. That's my belief as as someone trained in science. The proof? we can look back in time (infrared and microwave and x-ray telescopes) to a fraction of a second after the big bang.
Who created physics? First you imply someone created it, in my view it created itself during the big bang. Ultimately no one knows why we have the laws of physics we do, that's one of the remaining mysteries of Unified Field Theory. Many physicists believe there are an infinite number of big bangs resulting in different laws of physics in the universes they create. Some are conducive to conscious life and some are not. But this, like your assertions I think are speculation.
Many things in the quantum world can be measured, electron tunneling rates, particle decay rates, particle trajectories in colliders; that's what high energy physicists do. They don't have all the answers, but there are many things they can precisely measure, like E=MC^2, amazing how they know ahead of time exactly what the yield of a nuclear weapon is.
As far as particles of mass and light go, no one knows fundamentally what they are, except that E=MC^2, tells us they are different forms of ultimately the same thing. Just because current science does not have all the answers doesn't mean it invalid, it just means we don't have all the answers. And we may never have all the answers.
The science community does not believe in what it can't measure, but it theorizes about it, it has to. If we don't theorize, speculate and experiment, we don't get anywhere.
If you're equation R = EC were valid, you should be able to define an experiment, such as a nuclear reactor or tokomat , or atomic weapon, to quantify the individual components and verify your results. I don't think you can. E=MC^2 has been very precisely proven.
When I leave this plane of existence time will be undefined for me, but earth will still orbit the sun at the same rate, the sun's fuel will still be exhausted in some 5 billion years and basically for the rest of the universe, time will continue on just find without me, or any of us for that matter. I still say time is not a construct of man's consciousness, it existed long before man, and will exist long after his demise.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/25/2008 6:13:43 PM |
Many things in the quantum world can be measured, electron tunneling rates, particle decay rates, particle trajectories in colliders; that's what high energy physicists do. They don't have all the answers,
True, and we will have more answers if we continue to have an objective mind. Remember Hisenberg, Planck, Bohr, and Einstein all faced enormous ridicule, ostracization and for some persecution because of their radical beliefs. They defide a predjudiced scientific community blinded by a subjective belief that "old" science was the pinnacle of truth. These men took the risk to think outside of the box.
Just because current science does not have all the answers doesn't mean it invalid, it just means we don't have all the answers.
And for this very same reason "science" or the people that preach it, should remember that there is much more to our world and reality than we have ever imagined. Often we will see posters on POF emphatically defending the rightousness of "science" with the rabid zeal of a fanatic.
I do not disagree with many of your points, I only wish to remind (as many of my physics, chemistry, calc, philosophy, instructors did years ago) that objectivity can be blinded by absolutes.
As far as particles of mass and light go, no one knows fundamentally what they are, except that E=MC^2, tells us they are different forms of ultimately the same thing.
This is what was mentioned before - as least consider the possibilites.
If you're equation R = EC were valid, you should be able to define an experiment, such as a nuclear reactor or tokomat , or atomic weapon, to quantify the individual components and verify your results. I don't think you can.
Consciousness and energy - creating reality - is proven every moment by every person on this planet (collective consciousness) - Our brains create a holographic picture that overlays our experience of this plain of expression with reality. Our brains are recievers for the spiritual being that we are. (A professor Fox from UCLA was working on measuring thought and his experiments were on discovery channel a couple of years ago) Consciousness created the world we live in and therefore allows for the reality of E=MC^2, although you will find there are some in the scientific community that believe it is an incomplete rather than incorrect equation.
Consciousness is the hands which mold the clay(Energy) of reality.
When I leave this plane of existence time will be undefined for me, but earth will still orbit the sun at the same rate, the sun's fuel will still be exhausted in some 5 billion years and basically for the rest of the universe, time will continue on just find without me, or any of us for that matter.
So while you live here Time IS defined by you, and after you leave - how will you know otherwise? | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/25/2008 8:32:41 PM |
Consciousness and energy - creating reality - is proven every moment by every person on this planet (collective consciousness) - Our brains create a holographic picture that overlays our experience of this plain of expression with reality. Our brains are recievers for the spiritual being that we are. (A professor Fox from UCLA was working on measuring thought and his experiments were on discovery channel a couple of years ago) Consciousness created the world we live in and therefore allows for the reality of E=MC^2, although you will find there are some in the scientific community that believe it is an incomplete rather than incorrect equation. There is absolutely no proof that our brains have a separate spirit. Here you delve into the realm of religion, and while I don't put down anyone's religious beliefs, it is MY belief that there is no factual basis for it. Consciousness creates the world we live in only in that it determines how we as individuals interpret the information we receive. There is no secret to me as to what thought is. Our brains are very complex computers that developed over billions of years. If anything, it can be measured as electrical impulses, but they obey Ohm's law and other laws of physics. What we haven't figured out is how those impulsed work together to give us intelligence and individuality. We only discovered E=MC^2, it was in operation in heart of start long before Einstein discovered it. You are correct that many believe it is incomplete, but when they prove that, it will change, again, that's the process of science. So while you live here Time IS defined by you, and after you leave - how will you know otherwise?
I know because time existed and ran as it did today before I or any of us existed. There is no reason to think it will not continue to do so after we are all gone. To think otherwise is to be narcissistic.
Don't take my comments as criticisms of your beliefs. I only expound that as a someone trained in science and someone who believes in the scientific method, I only believe in what can be proven. I don't claim at all science has all the answers, maybe someday we will. But that doesn't take away from the scientific method and the many undeniable achievements it has made.
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/25/2008 10:00:11 PM |
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. Albert Einstein,
For my part I would just as soon leave any religious dogma out of it.
Here you delve into the realm of religion
You won't find this knowledge in any current western religious scriptures.
What we haven't figured out is how those impulsed work together to give us intelligence and individuality.
The quantum world is opening many interesting concepts when applied to consciousness. Google - quantum and consciousness - you'll find oodles of interesting articles. Also Quantum, time and consciousness. Several Journal articles can be found as well.
Don't take my comments as criticisms of your beliefs. - - -I only expound that as a someone trained in science and someone who believes in the scientific method,
None taken, I only feel you are towing the party line, that being the "old" science dogma - don't get me wrong, we wouldn't be where we are now without the old science as we know it. My stance is that with the development of quantum theory, we've only scratched the surface. While there are many of us who matriculated and live, work and study in the science field - I've found that in forums like this, subjectivity based on lack of objectivity (Too many absolutes), can be rather tedious.
To coin A Huxley - It's a brave new world. Time to change the way we think. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 9/26/2008 6:42:09 AM |
For my part I would just as soon leave any religious dogma out of it. I would agree with that completely. Here Einstein in obviously injecting his religious bias. You won't find this knowledge in any current western religious scriptures. I won't find them in any scriptures, I am a complete atheist. The quantum world is opening many interesting concepts when applied to consciousness. Google - quantum and consciousness - you'll find oodles of interesting articles. Also Quantum, time and consciousness. Several Journal articles can be found as well.[qoute]
I've read some of these articles, they are all speculation at best, interesting, but with absolutely no basis in experimental fact. Maybe one day we'll discover some, but for now it's pie in the sky stuff to me.
I disagree about towning the party line in "old physics" Physics and our understanding are constantly changing. If what you've been saying all along is we've only scratched the surface with things like quantum mechanics, I'd agree. We've only scratched the surface with feild theory and M theory (if it should prove to be true). I guess what I didn't go along with is trying to ascribe a quantification to conciousnous where non YET exists. Maybe some day it will. But as I said, I tend not to believe things until there is proof. That doesn't mean I we shouldn't seek out that proof. There is a joint program at UCLA between the Brain Research dept of the medical school and the Physics dept. I'm sure this, along with many other things, are items they are pursuing.
Have a great day | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 522 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 10/18/2008 10:17:14 PM | A place where time no longer exists on earth.................
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter23.html
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter2.html | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 10/19/2008 1:20:32 AM | Time. This is a complex thing to explain.
Time, as in clocks, time zones, watches, etc.. is not when scientists mean.
Clocks measure intervals of our existence, as we pass through time. We separate these measurements by:
1 Year - The full orbit of the Earth around the sun.
1 month - A division of a year. There are 12 divisions.
1 week - a division of a month, there are 4 divisions
1 day - one full rotation of our planet on it’s axis
1 hour - a division of a day, there are 24 divisions
1 minute - a division of an hour, there are 60 divisions
1 second - a division of a minute, there are 60 divisions
We use these divisions to orchestrate our lives, to sow crops, to remember special events in history, to do everything. Without our measurement of time, in this way, we would not be here right now. Ancient people used the stars to guide them on times of the year, and so forth.
As for REAL time. a clock does nothing. If time physically slowed down for you in your room, you would never notice. It would slow down the inner workings of your clock, and the clock, along with you would be moving slow, or fast, depending on how time is affecting you.
Time is not absolute, it affects separate things differently based on their momentum. If you move very quickly, time slows you down. If you move very slow, time speeds up. This is why if you travelled at nearly light speed, left earth, an came back -- you would be far into the future.
Time for us would mush on, but time, as experienced by you, would be VERY slow. To us, you would appear frozen. You, looking at your clock, sitting on the spaceship, eating chips or whatever you do, would not notice a thing. The clock, or calendar would tell you 1 year has passed. So you slow the ship down as you approach earth, and find out you’re 5000 years in the future.
We were not moving at such a speed, so time for us moved like it is now, for 5000 long years, while you only aged 1 year.
As for Why time does this, what it’s connection to momentum is, and so on. I don’t think we really know, but Time itself it definitely real | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 524 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 10/21/2008 9:57:16 PM | Time may NOT apply as many actually think it does.
Quantum mechanics denies this possibility,
the prime example being the position and momentum of a particle.
The more precisely the position (momentum) of a particle is given,
the less precisely can one say what its momentum (position) is.
A measurement does not only serve to give meaning to a quantity,
it creates a particular value for this quantity.
Measurement=Creation principle.
It is an ontological principle. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 10/22/2008 6:05:55 AM | | Not sure what to say here. Just trying it out... | |
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