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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 576 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/21/2008 4:51:31 PM | | Mr. soggy pants...???? Perhaps you noticed I'm an avid kayaker---lmao | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/21/2008 4:59:10 PM | I think she has a crush on you.
Normally when women call me Mr. Soggy Pants, it means they fancy me very much.
Or they are really angry at me, and are making fun of my very weak bladder.
Actually I'm only sure about the latter reason. 
Oh, I have no idea why I continue to post my secret shames. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/21/2008 10:07:55 PM | "Hole Theory attempts to deal with it in some degree.
For example in negative time positive energies must all be bigger than mc² and negative energies must all be less than -mc² to exist in positive time..."
I am sorry, these two sentences do not give me even the slightest insight into understanding what you mean by "negative time".
Please, if you are able to, give me an explanation of what it is that would give me an idea, a concept, a sort of understanding what "negative time" is. It doesn't have to be an all-encompassing definition, but it would help; if you give me just some indication how I should envision what negative time is. I have absolutely no clue what you mean by that, please assume you're starting with a clean slate, because this is the first time (positive time) that I encountered that expression.
The two examples you provided state qualities of negative time, but unfortunately in ways that though they may be true, they have no indication that would help someone understand the nature of the concept.
Please explain, for my edification. | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 579 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 6:32:10 AM | Negative time --(very loose definition)
Black holes emerge from Einstein's theory of general relativity;
they are the graves of stars, places where space-time
becomes curved beyond recognition.
An even stranger distortion of space-time might be lurking
in Einstein's equations: the anti-black hole, aka the white hole.
A white hole is the theoretical time reversal of a black hole.
Keep in mind the word "theoretical" --no one has observed negative time. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 7:05:56 AM | Thanks for the explanation, HO2. I appreciate it, although I should have liked to have heard it from the guy I asked, for I trust he has no clue what it is and therefore I could have, with the antagonistic motivation against stupidity I have these days, thrown in his face that "why are you talking about things you have no clue what they mean." I am very glad you stopped me doing that though, because, frankly, I'm getting tired and ashamed of my belligerent and provocatively minded posts.
Especially today -- I got up on Thursday morning at 3:30 a.m., went back to bed at nine, slept 'till eleven thirty, and then nothing since, absolutely no sleep, so I'm running on empty and on a lot -- and I mean a lot -- of adrenaline, so I'm hyper as a kite.
As to the explanation -- please tell the guy I sort of called here stupid to not feel bad, because even with your explanation I have no clue of how to conceptualize negative time. It's clearly my ineptitude and lack of background knowledge, not yours, HO2. So if the guy I called stupid complains, tell him please that I'm just as ignorant as he is, and I admit to my hubris.
I wonder how long before I crash? Oyyoyyoyy. I have to go to someone's 60th birthday party and I am sincerely scared I'll cause a scene. Luckily it's held in a place out-of-town and I will do the last six kilometres from the railwaystation to the restaurant on my bicycle, and that ought to take some of the high-pressure steam out of me.
Vuvuvuvuvuvoooooom.....!!!!!! | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 7:09:04 AM | Time is what you make it.
The slow ticking of the clock through the last half hour of a dull school day.
Night too soon broken by dawn when you are lost in a sweet dream.
We use time to measure moments and days and lifetimes so that we can compare them. Who lived longer. Who achieved more.
We fight time and curse time and blame time for the things we do not do.
We have broken time down into microseconds and nanoseconds and talk of parallel time, but we have not learned to live better for all this knowledge.
We compile statistics about time, like the average person will spend two weeks of their lives waiting at traffic lights. I'd like to know how much time did the person compiling that statistic spending researching it and now that we are aware of that fact what we will do with that information besides print it on the peelable sticky strip on a female hygeine product as amusing bits of trivia.
We spend a lot of time worrying about time or lack of it.
We bemoan our lost years and worry about the future as we let the present slip away.
We sit around writing about what time is late at night suspended in darkness when no giant fireball moves through the sky, hurtling another day into its grave.
Oh I forget, it's us humans pinned to this earth by gravity that go spinning through space, always caught unawares by the first rays of light and then clinging desperately to the last beating our chests with recriminations of another unfruitful day.
So to alleviate our guilt we create weeks and months and years. We give ourselves bigger chunks of time to accomplish that that we cannot do in a day and when a new year begins we make promises to do the things we spent the last 364 days putting off.
Time is an excuse we give ourselves for not being how we should be. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 7:12:28 AM | Vivivivivivivoovoovoovoovoom...
(* Doppler effect.) | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 7:18:14 AM | Timetripper, thanks for your post, the statistics about time we keep produce spectacular results. Did you know, for instance, that a minute and half contains 90 time ten to the nine nanoseconds EQUALLY in the North and South hemispheres, at sea level and at 20 degrees celsius, at one atmospheric pressure? And that an hour's worth of train ride from Antwerp to Middle Earth in June lasts exactly the same amount of time as in the Middle of February? And that during any five-day period a woman uses just as much time to complain as during a three-day period, provided the amount and intensity of cramps are comparable, plus or minus two kilograms of embriotic fluid?
Please, I beg you dear God, to make me stop, or to give me the energy and the courage to stop... Amen. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 8:51:03 AM | No — quite obviously at those potentials you aren't likely to find negative time sitting under the alarm clock next to the lamp in this universe — lining the walls of worm holes in rather large black holes would be good first place to look. One would assume there has to be layer of timelessness existing at the positive time boundary — so when to see that — you are getting very close. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 9:00:38 AM |
Thanks for the explanation, HO2. I appreciate it, although I should have liked to have heard it from the guy I asked, for I trust he has no clue what it is and therefore I could have, with the antagonistic motivation against stupidity I have these days, thrown in his face that "why are you talking about things you have no clue what they mean." I am very glad you stopped me doing that though, because, frankly, I'm getting tired and ashamed of my belligerent and provocatively minded posts.
I didn't see this....
Yes I would be ashamed too. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/22/2008 11:53:53 PM | Well Wounded your information about physics might be extensive, but I fear your biology is found wanting. That is... your knowledge of biology, not your specific, personal biological makeup. LOL.
One can say LOL in this thread can't they or is that too ordinary???? | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/23/2008 7:52:26 PM | | Yep, Timetripper....too many beings concerned with their definitions. I wonder if this question of Time will be freely appreciated as they prepare to leave this world. Read a review of a book on Time in the Canadian "Globe and Mail's", book review section.I think what the book suggested is that we are living in parallel time with past centuries. You know I find that comforting and reassuring. "And the wheel goes round, and round. etc. etc." Time is indeed a question of improvement and possibly evolution. In parallel time, Yep. How high is that? | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:27:43 PM | I would think we are most likely living — (okay— well existing, it's hard to think of this as really living) in a time-space universe that's divided in times from an infinite number of other time-space universes by a "time-wave-length" — if one can borrow the "wavelength" term — since it's not possible to conceptualize a wave that's about time using a time based frequency model.
Based on my understanding of hyper-inflation at singularity. | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 589 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:27:54 PM | There is such a thing as Metric Time and yes, a metric second exists.
A modified second = 1/100 000 of a day = 0.864 s could be a viable alternative.
Another unit for time is 14.4 minutes, i.e. a shorter quarter of an hour, or a centiday.
The centiday was used in China (called ke in Chinese) for thousands of years,
until the Jesuits had it redefined from 1/100th of a day to 1/96th of a day
(i.e., 15 minutes) in the 17th century.
Swatch Internet Time was a decimal time concept introduced in 1998.
Instead of hours and minutes, the mean solar day is divided up into 1000 parts called "beats".
- Each beat lasts 1 minute and 26.4 seconds.
Like UTC, Swatch Time is the same throughout the world. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 7:45:14 AM | HO2. It sounds to me then that time can be altered, because "time" isn't anything concrete, it is our perception of it.
A year can be broken down into measures called months by a Roman emperor and on the other side of the world in an other kingdom it's all measured differently. Which is right? Is either right???
It's like sound only exists to a person who can hear and colour only for a person who can see. Sound and colour aren't real for these people, it doesnt exist in their world.
A mile or kilometre measures distance between two points. A kilogram measures weight, but even that is irrelevent if there is no gravity. What does time measure? The distance between two events? For example the time it takes the earth to complete a full rotation or the time it takes to complete its orbit around the sun. Set points to start and complete measuring, it's cyclic, it continually repeats itself.
But when looking at the broader meaning of "time" and how it relates to humanity, it can't be measured the same way. Each human life when measured with the principles we use to measure "earths" time varies enormously. So how can something like a humans life be measured mathematically when there is no predictability. The start and end points are uncertain and it does not continuously repeat itself. The only certain thing is that humanity itself repeats itself. It starts, exists and ends over and over and over again and it over laps itself in the billions of humans being born, living and dying at any given point. "Time" measured on a linear scale is limited, its assuming there is a finite amount. Each human has their own "time" which doesn't have to be shared with others. So as an example if there is a billion living breathing humans at any given point on earth then, to use a measure we are familiar with, a span of one minute would actually be one billion minutes because all that time has existed simultaneously and then add that life is continously entering or exiting earth then time is constantly changing. And we havent even applied how that "time" is utilised or the expontential effect of a group of humans utilising their time on the same objective.
All I know is that writing this has taken a whole lot of time. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 9:25:06 AM |
All I know is that writing this has taken a whole lot of time
And the reading considerably less, yet the reading was enjoyable. Good points on several levels.
Time seems to be an individualized concept - relevant to all relatively.
And again to all - Mr Soggy Pants?  an individually created concept.
Of course there is a collective consciousness that adhere's to a collective linear timeline, but that is relative as well - when we step out of the rat race. | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 592 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 10:08:37 AM | We might assume that the presence of a particle causes vibrations in spacetime.
The time waves at present overlap the time waves of a moment ago, and so on.
A cloud of time waves is called a rishon.
A rishon has intrinsic spin and the vibrations of the particle may be considered quantum gravity.
A distortion in spacetime ( Planck equation ) states the distortion is what we call
gravity, mass, or energy is proportional to the frequency of a particle.
Quantum mechanics and general relativity both describe disturbances of spacetime
and together provide a more complete picture of our universe.
It would appear that time is all about waves, whirls, bends or distortions in the universe.
Just in case you thought I made it all up....lol
--http://jasia.ca/jaydshelton/timetravel/index.html
--http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.0190
--http://rama.poly.edu/~marc/wavepar0.pdf
The holidays are soon upon us and time may appear to fly by, become unbearable,
or may even seem to stop in certain circumstances involving family and relatives. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 12:18:53 PM |
Just in case you thought I made it all up....lol
--http://jasia.ca/jaydshelton/timetravel/index.html
--http://arxiv.org/abs/0706.0190
--http://rama.poly.edu/~marc/wavepar0.pdf
You might as well have made it up. The article from arxiv.org doesn't make it past the first page without making an obvious error: ``Gravity is modeled as curvature in space-time whose metric tensor is always real and definite.'' Well no, the fact that there are both + and - signs in the metric means the metric can take on values that are positive, zero or negative and by definition, such a metric is indefinite. On the second page he refers to deterministic models of quantum mechanics and states that no conclusion has been reached. That is incorrect according several of the authors he cites to support that statement. I've read all of those papers and in particlular, Suarez has done a number of experiments to try and demostrate such a deteministic model and each time has been forced to conclude his experiments rule such a model out. The citation of the paper in 2000 is only one of many. There are more recent ones. Ghose provides an especially succinct argument why quantum mechanics can't be deterministic and gives an experiment which can distinguish between a probabilistic and a deterministic theory.
The article goes on to state some non-sense about connecting energy and momentum to spacetime, but is apparently unaware that this was accomplished as long ago as 1918 in two very famous papers by Emmy Noether. | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 5:45:25 PM | HO2. It sounds to me then that time can be altered, because "time" isn't anything concrete, it is our perception of it.
No — the forces, energy potentials and velocities which are thought to produce true time anomalies are calculated to be far beyond anything known or theorized to exist within our Universe — (outside is another matter) and certainly beyond our ability to survive as an organic life form. To think of time as anything beyond the unidimensional experience we all have present first-hand knowledge of would be a serious factual mistake. While the sensory experience of time can be very subjective and has been proven to be age related, the flow of time as experienced by such machinery as atomic clocks doesn't appear to vary at all. And of course it wouldn't really matter if it did, since that would be unknowable. Relativistic time dilation has been measured by atomic clocks of course — but on a scale of nanoseconds and nothing that could be experienced on a human scale or be ascertained by the unaided senses — as least so far.
Extended inter-planetary flight would likely change that — at least in terms of rendering the time dilation effect.  | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 9:06:20 PM | "I AM BAAAACK!!!" (--- theme music to the Twilight Zone intro)
She was a day tripper -- are you related to the organizer of this website?
Thanks for your kind words about my physics knowledge, but the person who truly deserves those accolades is abelian. I am more of a philosopher if you ask me, I know very little of the math in physics, and rely mostly on my intuition to explain the world around. But as it has been proven in their papers by Emmerich Stribber (1909), Strongholmgemuse Webber (1877), Immanuel Hans Juergen Heggelschreider-Hertzog (1956), and by the Holzsteigergeschmesserwurdetankfrankunterlaubverstandselbsts sisters, Zinni, Anke und Heidi, in 1921, intuitive approaches to physics have had their days numbered, and if you want to sell an intuitive package, the physics community spits at you and dances on your grave.
Anyway.
Aside from spending all my free time on useless activities, I also enjoy music and poetry, and maybe that realm of my knowledge of time cuts closer to your chase as well.
A few song titles from the sixties:
"Good Times, Bad Times"
"Your time is gonna come..."
"Time is on my side"
"Time" -- an all time hit for chosen as song title, time and time again; by the Chambers Brothers, by Pink Floyd (in the seventies, sorry, only exception to using only sixties' songs), by the Spencer Davies Group, by Eric Burdon and the Animals, etc. etc.
"This Could Be The Last Time"
"Time after Time" -- two different songs by the same band, same title; one talks about a girl who keeps making the same mistakes but her boy keeps on loving her nevertheless; and the other one talks about the rebirth of the universe, when time as we know it stops, and a new time starts in a brand new, and improved, universe.
"Time Weaver"
"Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme"
And you're right, my knowledge of biology is restricted to knowing when I'd better stay out of my girlfriend's way (when I'm in a relationship) for a specific four days or so every month.
There are things a man learns because it's fun, and there are things a man learns because it's too painful not to. | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 596 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 9:34:18 PM | Abelian - and your credentials /sources are _____________________(fill in the blank)
Prove to all of us on POF, time waves don't exist, please !
In 2008, Piotr Zenczykowski has derived the Harari Rishon Model by starting from a non-relativistic phase space.
Let's not dwell on the stuff in the past like the world was once flat, it's 2008 going on 2009.
Division of Theoretical Physics, Institute of Nuclear Physics,
Polish Academy of Sciences, Kraków, Poland
Physics Letters -Volume 660, Issue 5, 6 March 2008, Pages 567-572
http://www.sciencedirect.com/ | |
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HO2
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Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 597 | |
| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 10:08:08 PM | With experience teaching upper level physics classes and accelerator research
Abelian should be able to explain all this to the POF public in terms they understand.
--keep it simple for all us lesser mortals
What is time Abelian ? | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/24/2008 11:16:39 PM | | Time does not exist. It is a figment of our large egos in order feed our egos. Time exists in our minds in a linear fashion. The vertical dimension is now and the only thing that really defines "time" | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/25/2008 3:56:54 AM | Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme The Thyme in this of course had nothing to do with Time well at least no more so than anything else that exists in time and space — in fact this combination of chemistry was believed to be able to induce miscarriages a.k.a. an early form of abortion drug . (As it happens I have some minor knowledge of biology, well — a degree in biochemical engineering amongst some other things. It was never a true passion.) | |
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| What is TIME ??
Posted: 11/25/2008 5:17:02 AM | Wounded, nothing wrong with some merriment at the grave site, but I draw the line at spitting and Im sure some fine scholar from this thread can give us an indepth analysis of the make up of spittle. I just think its a gross thing guys like to do along with the other many gross things that gives meaning to their lifes.
OH now I've done it.... Ive started a gender war and I think Im seriously outnumbered and out smarted here.. so give it all you've got and I'll take it like a man.
On a serious note, as you may have guessed I have no knowledge of the complex theories you guys are discussing here, I just put my two cents in cos I can and no one can tell me to shut up.
How does knowing about a nanosecond alter our experience of it. Really we cant experience it can we? It takes longer to say it then it does to happen.
Im glad though that all this understanding of what makes up matter and time hasn't taken away from its beauty.
I'm intrigued by the stuff you are discussing here and the working of your minds.
You all have this amzaing pool of knowledge, for me the stuff is just way too complex, but I want to understand it.
Pretend Im dumb and explain it to me.
OK, ok probably not a huge leap of the imagination to pretend Im dumb you know what I mean. | |
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